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| csatari | hi | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| esarault | Hi | 14:00 |
| dpertin | hi o/ | 14:00 |
| ildikov | hi | 14:01 |
| csatari | #startmeeting Review of Dublin edge notes II | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 25 14:01:10 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is csatari. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii' | 14:01 |
| csatari | #topic Roll Call | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:01 | |
| esarault | #info Eric Sarault - eric.sarault@kontron.com | 14:01 |
| csatari | #info Gergely Csatari - gergely.csatari@nokia.com | 14:02 |
| ildikov | #info Ildiko Vancsa - ildiko@openstack.org | 14:02 |
| dpertin | #info dpertin - dimitri.pertin@inria.fr | 14:02 |
| csatari | #topic Previous meeting | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Previous meeting (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:02 | |
| csatari | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes.2018-04-20-12.58.html | 14:03 |
| epalper | #info Periyasamy Palanisamy - periyasamy.palanisamy@ericsson.com | 14:03 |
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| csatari | Anyone knows why I can not upload images to the FEMDC wiki? | 14:03 |
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| pramchan | #info pramchan | 14:04 |
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| csatari | Okay, I will check it with #openstack-infra | 14:04 |
| trinaths | Hi | 14:04 |
| csatari | Let's continue the review from Chapter 5.2.2.5 | 14:05 |
| csatari | Hi trinaths | 14:05 |
| trinaths | Hi. Can you please provide the chapter url if any | 14:06 |
| csatari | #topic Review of Chapter 5.2.2.5 Containers | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Chapter 5.2.2.5 Containers (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:06 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Containers | 14:06 |
| csatari | trinaths: ^^^^ | 14:06 |
| dpertin | csatari: I might be wrong but I think that last time we forgot to review 5.2.2.4 about "collaboration between edge cloud instances" | 14:06 |
| trinaths | Thank you | 14:06 |
| csatari | dpertin: Can happen. Lets do that first, then. | 14:07 |
| csatari | #topic Review of 5.2.2.4 Collaboration between edge cloud instances | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of 5.2.2.4 Collaboration between edge cloud instances (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:07 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Collaboration_between_edge_cloud_instances | 14:07 |
| dpertin | Why is this not MVS? | 14:08 |
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| csatari | I think it is still possible to achieve "basic" edge infrastrucutre wihtout these features. | 14:09 |
| csatari | Like start applicaitons in a remote site or on several sites. | 14:09 |
| dpertin | From my viewpoint collaboration is critical in edge infrastructure, but I might miss use cases where it is not | 14:09 |
| csatari | But I can be convinced. | 14:09 |
| csatari | I tried to put a pressure on *minimal* in MVS when I added the types. | 14:10 |
| esarault | Makes sense because then your small edge instance still needs to live on its own, expecting multiple small unit to interaction together might not be MVS to start with. Could be nice down the road but maybe not for the first release | 14:11 |
| trinaths | Asper the topic, is that edge instance based applications management is also considered? | 14:11 |
| csatari | Yes, and mesh appliction and live migration are difficult things :) | 14:12 |
| dpertin | ok then, thanks | 14:12 |
| csatari | trinaths: Can you clarify? | 14:13 |
| csatari | dpertin: Okay. hopefully once we will get to the non-MVS features also :) | 14:13 |
| dpertin | another question, are those features sorted by complexity? | 14:13 |
| trinaths | At edge there can be many vm/cn applications evolve as per the need. Any thoughts on how such app management is taken care | 14:14 |
| csatari | dpertin: Ordered around feature richness what also implies somehow complexity. | 14:14 |
| csatari | trinaths: At the moment the wiki does not talk about applicaiotns, but we cn put this question to the open questions list. | 14:15 |
| csatari | One way is to implement a MEC framework. | 14:16 |
| csatari | #action csatari Add to the open questions list "At edge there can be many vm/cn applications evolve as per the need. Any thoughts on how such app management is taken care". | 14:17 |
| trinaths | Ok. Since this kind of app management is required when nfv is extended to edge for auto usecases | 14:17 |
| dpertin | csatari: ok, just to highlight that network unreliability (5.2.2.3) should not only be handled for "basic operations" (which refers to 5.2.2.1 and 5.2.2.2 I guess) but also for collaborative operations - thus I propose to set "Network unreliability" after "Collaboration" | 14:17 |
| trinaths | Vm - virtual Machine | 14:17 |
| trinaths | Cn - container | 14:17 |
| csatari | trinaths: I totally agree, but this discussion is more about the edge cloud infrastructure. | 14:17 |
| trinaths | +1 | 14:18 |
| csatari | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/YSgWGSJV/image.png | 14:18 |
| csatari | Virtualisation Infrastructure and VIM on this picture. | 14:19 |
| csatari | All other boxes are to manage the applications :) | 14:19 |
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| trinaths | Ok thank you | 14:20 |
| csatari | dpertin: Okay, lets discuss this. I open a topic for this. | 14:20 |
| csatari | #topic Review of 5.2.2.3 Network unreliability | 14:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of 5.2.2.3 Network unreliability (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:20 | |
| csatari | dpertin: The order of the chapters doe not mean any dependency. | 14:21 |
| csatari | On "Basic operations" I meant all operations which are valid in a case when there is no connectivity. I just could not figure out what are these. | 14:22 |
| csatari | But these are operations of th eedge cloud instance. | 14:23 |
| dpertin | Ok, but I think network unreliability should mention mono-site operations and cross-site operations (collaboration) - thus it's better to define collaboration before | 14:23 |
| csatari | got it. | 14:23 |
| esarault | Would've be bad to be clear about the expected outcome of mono versus cross site, agreed | 14:23 |
| esarault | *wouldn't.... | 14:23 |
| csatari | #action csatari Move "Network unreliability" after "Collaboration between edge cloud instances" | 14:24 |
| csatari | esarault: I could not really get this comment. | 14:25 |
| esarault | csatari: no worries | 14:25 |
| dpertin | For instance users connected to a site isolated by a split brain should be able to do basic operations regarding this site, while admins/users from the other partition of the network should be able to execute basic operations on any single site of this parition + any collaborative operation across those sites | 14:25 |
| dpertin | (hope it's clear) | 14:26 |
| csatari | #action csatari to clarify that "users connected to a site isolated by a split brain should be able to do basic operations regarding this site, while admins/users from the other partition of the network should be able to execute basic operations on any single site of this parition + any collaborative operation across those sites" | 14:26 |
| csatari | dpertin: Yes. | 14:27 |
| csatari | Thanks | 14:27 |
| dpertin | I think that all from my side on this point | 14:27 |
| csatari | Anything else for 5.2.2.3 Network unreliability ? | 14:27 |
| csatari | Moving forward. | 14:27 |
| csatari | #topic Review of Chapter 5.2.2.6 Automatic scheduling between edge cloud instances | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Chapter 5.2.2.6 Automatic scheduling between edge cloud instances (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:28 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Automatic_scheduling_between_edge_cloud_instances | 14:28 |
| csatari | Do we need location awareness in here? | 14:29 |
| trinaths | I think yes | 14:29 |
| csatari | #action csatari to add location awareness | 14:30 |
| csatari | Anything else to 5.2.2.6? | 14:30 |
| trinaths | Do you think | 14:30 |
| trinaths | Edge host scaling is possible?? | 14:31 |
| csatari | You mean turning off not needed edge hosts and turning them back on based on load? | 14:31 |
| csatari | I think it is possible. | 14:31 |
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| trinaths | Will this turn on and off | 14:32 |
| trinaths | Hit the appliance health.. or security threats | 14:32 |
| trinaths | ?? | 14:32 |
| trinaths | I feel edge appliances are not so good guys.. | 14:33 |
| csatari | Well it should not :) | 14:33 |
| dpertin | Usually for such autonomous management follows some policies (e.g. performance, energy) and constraints (e.g. hardware requirements) - I don't know if it is relevant to determine specific policies of edge infrastructure | 14:33 |
| dpertin | s/for// | 14:33 |
| dpertin | like locality, but maybe there are others | 14:34 |
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| csatari | trinaths: The infra should migrate the workload out from the hosts before it turns them off. | 14:34 |
| trinaths | Since an edge device be at gateway or at user end. | 14:35 |
| csatari | and I can not get the security threat. Do you think about a hacked host what joins to the cluster and steals all the data? | 14:35 |
| trinaths | They thin appliances with minimal support | 14:35 |
| trinaths | @csatari yes | 14:36 |
| csatari | I can add a requirement, that authorisation of hosts is needed before they join ot the cluster, but this is a generic problem. | 14:37 |
| csatari | Not related only to the scaling of hosts. | 14:37 |
| trinaths | But when moved to a cluster this may create an issue | 14:38 |
| esarault | Yeah, there needs to be some sort of gating to join a cluster otherwise you'll end up with hundreds if not thounsands of small CPE boxes/appliances joining a cluster that are at customer prem without knowing if they are compromised or not | 14:38 |
| trinaths | esarault +1 | 14:38 |
| esarault | And physicall access/security what estbalished at poor if not existent | 14:38 |
| esarault | *what=was | 14:39 |
| trinaths | True | 14:39 |
| esarault | **at=as | 14:39 |
| csatari | #action csatari Add a requirement for arhorisation to join to the cluster of one edge cloud instance. | 14:39 |
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| pramchan | #info pramchan | 14:39 |
| csatari | We need this on both edge cloud instance host and edge cloud instance level. | 14:39 |
| trinaths | The edge device need to prove its authenticity while joining the cluster | 14:39 |
| esarault | Basically a two-factor auth model | 14:39 |
| csatari | #action csatari Add a requirement for authorisation fo join to the edge cloud infrastructure | 14:40 |
| csatari | I will draft the requirements and send them for you to review. | 14:41 |
| trinaths | Also, nfvi authenticity must be taken along with capabilities | 14:41 |
| pramchan | #info authentication for Mobile device to connect to appalication occurs before as part of Provisioning and usage of APN by device | 14:41 |
| csatari | trinaths: I still do not get why the apps are interesting from this perspective. | 14:41 |
| trinaths | No apps problem is different | 14:42 |
| trinaths | This is different | 14:42 |
| csatari | Okay | 14:42 |
| pramchan | #I missed earlier part due to another call but will like to understand this | 14:42 |
| trinaths | Please don't mix them | 14:42 |
| trinaths | Hi pramchan | 14:43 |
| csatari | I try not to :) | 14:43 |
| csatari | #action csatari to add a requirement "nfvi authenticity must be taken along with capabilities" | 14:43 |
| trinaths | #link https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/white_paper/QORIQSECBOOTWP.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_pdjX1NXaAhWGN48KHbvbBeAQFjANegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3FwIOK1oraeB0H6WwUzoRQ | 14:44 |
| pramchan | #sounds correct, sure we do that | 14:44 |
| trinaths | Ok | 14:44 |
| pramchan | #are we talking here of secure boot as well? | 14:45 |
| csatari | Okay, anything else for 5.2.2.6? | 14:45 |
| trinaths | pramchan no - but regarding parameters for nfvi authenticity | 14:46 |
| csatari | pramchan: the docs trinaths shared yes. | 14:46 |
| pramchan | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG | 14:46 |
| esarault | Secure boot is touchy. I still have nightmares from all the false positives from Intel TXT | 14:46 |
| esarault | This would be optinal, right? | 14:47 |
| pramchan | OK we only use parameters from the link trinath provided , I guess | 14:47 |
| trinaths | Agree. But this will improve. | 14:47 |
| trinaths | Yes optional | 14:47 |
| trinaths | Ok lets move on | 14:47 |
| csatari | Should I mention this somewhere in the wiki? | 14:47 |
| esarault | Thing is of all CPE boxes and appliance I saw in the market, they are pretty much Intel based, not FreeScale | 14:47 |
| esarault | or ARM given their VNF is converted to ARM | 14:48 |
| trinaths | There are ARM boxes too competing today.. | 14:48 |
| esarault | @csatari, the fact we talka bout it needs a note somewhere I believe | 14:48 |
| trinaths | +1 | 14:48 |
| esarault | True, espacially at the small edge | 14:49 |
| pramchan | +1 | 14:49 |
| trinaths | Edge big or small needs Mano and Vim | 14:49 |
| csatari | #action csatari Add secure booting as an optional requirement for the small edges. | 14:49 |
| trinaths | Ok | 14:49 |
| csatari | #topic Review of Chapter 5.2.2.7 Administration features | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Chapter 5.2.2.7 Administration features (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:50 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Administration_features | 14:50 |
| esarault | Zero touch provisioning should be in MVS i think | 14:51 |
| esarault | Otherwise it'll be very hard to get people to buy the edge story | 14:51 |
| pramchan | what is full form of MVS? | 14:51 |
| csatari | heh, "Join the swarm" is the authentication of the edge cloud site | 14:51 |
| trinaths | ZTP is one critical part | 14:52 |
| esarault | Basically everything in this section allows remote admins to properly manage their edge cloud | 14:52 |
| csatari | Minimum Viable Solution | 14:52 |
| esarault | I don't see how we can live without 3/4 of the stuff int his section | 14:52 |
| esarault | For it to be deemed a "production-grade" solution | 14:52 |
| trinaths | ZTP i have some thoughts to share | 14:52 |
| pramchan | thanks | 14:53 |
| csatari | Should we move this sevtion to MVS, then? | 14:53 |
| csatari | s/sevtion/section/ | 14:53 |
| pramchan | Note ETSI has a new group call ZSM which is focussed on similar aspects | 14:53 |
| trinaths | ZTP from Openstack perspective - can be installation of cloud components. | 14:54 |
| pramchan | #link http://www.etsi.org/news-events/news/1245-2017-12-news-etsi-launches-zero-touch-network-and-service-management-group | 14:54 |
| csatari | pramchan: Thanks, I've heard about it: ) | 14:54 |
| csatari | trinaths: From the whole infra perspective it is also the host OS install. | 14:55 |
| trinaths | ZTP from vendor - installation of business apps, environment, security updates and leaning apps as the requirements demand. | 14:55 |
| pramchan | As part of edge cloud here should we then include a new use case for network slicing? | 14:55 |
| csatari | pramchan: Use case, feature or requirement? :) | 14:55 |
| pramchan | may be a distarction but note thta for later use | 14:55 |
| trinaths | csatari - only os?? How about requirements for inbox cloud controllers?? | 14:56 |
| csatari | eg the host OS. | 14:56 |
| csatari | Not only cloud components. | 14:56 |
| pramchan | I would say say use of network slicing for specific application characterstics required like AR/VR needs one slicing | 14:56 |
| esarault | Network slicing is relevant to operators so it's not bad a idea to at least keep a note if it and think of how it could work, maybe not MVS though? | 14:57 |
| trinaths | Yes. Any thing. ZTP must give a generic console to provision and manage the appliance | 14:57 |
| csatari | #action csatari to add a requirement for provisioning the things under the cloud components | 14:57 |
| dpertin | Sorry, I have to switch in a few minutes to the femdc irc meeting - thanks everyone | 14:57 |
| trinaths | And | 14:57 |
| csatari | thanks dpertin | 14:58 |
| * esarault need to move to another meeting as well | 14:58 | |
| csatari | #topic Finishing up | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finishing up (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:58 | |
| trinaths | This provisioning also depends on capabilities of the appliances | 14:58 |
| trinaths | Ok | 14:58 |
| csatari | #info We will continue from 5.2.2.7 Administration features | 14:58 |
| csatari | #action csatari to organize th enext meeting. | 14:58 |
| csatari | Sorry guys, but I also neded to run | 14:59 |
| dpertin | Thanks csatari | 14:59 |
| csatari | Thanks for the discusison. I will organize the next session. | 14:59 |
| csatari | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| pramchan | Before we close I have an announcement for Vancouver Thu 12.40-1.150PM like to get Blueprint discussions on table from ONAP, OPNFV, Opentstack. | 14:59 |
| trinaths | Ok thanks | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#edge-computing-group" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 25 14:59:31 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii.2018-04-25-14.01.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii.2018-04-25-14.01.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_ii.2018-04-25-14.01.log.html | 14:59 |
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| csatari | Sorry pramchan | 14:59 |
| csatari | On what topic you are looking for blueprint discussions? | 15:00 |
| pramchan | No problems just will send emai to list to cover that | 15:00 |
| csatari | Okay | 15:00 |
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| pramchan | We have co-ordination between ONAP, OPNFV and Openstack to discuss overlaps and try resolve through Blueprints any differences | 15:01 |
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