| zaneb | stevebaker: which meeting room are we in this week? | 00:00 |
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| stevebaker | #openstack-meeting-alt | 00:01 |
| zaneb | thanks | 00:02 |
| zaneb | I lost track of who drew the short straw on this one? | 00:02 |
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| Qiming | stevebaker: do we still have this meeting scheduled? | 00:05 |
| zaneb | Qiming: #openstack-meeting-alt | 00:06 |
| Qiming | zaneb: I'm in | 00:07 |
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| gokrokve | Hm. I am not sure how this alarm and HARestarter stuff works. | 00:58 |
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| gokrokve | I see instance metadata which refers to Alarm, Alarm refers to HAREstarter policy, HARestarter policy refers to instance | 00:59 |
| gokrokve | Sounds like a circular dependency or I am missing something. | 00:59 |
| zaneb | badly | 01:00 |
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| asalkeld | gokrokve, it was pretty much a PoC | 01:02 |
| Qiming | gokrokve: HARestarter should be deprecated, anyway | 01:02 |
| gokrokve | ok. makes sense | 01:02 |
| asalkeld | we were hoping that we would get better server montioring resoruces | 01:02 |
| gokrokve | So I am just hitting the wall with my head :-) | 01:02 |
| asalkeld | I think these are finally underway | 01:02 |
| asalkeld | but it could be replaced by a ceilometer alarm and policy | 01:03 |
| zaneb | wirehead_: it's not like you to hold off ;) | 01:04 |
| asalkeld | (just need a solid way to monitor the resource in question) | 01:04 |
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| gokrokve | asalkeld: Yes. I use the python method which is used in tempest. some python code which updated cloudwatch metrics | 01:05 |
| asalkeld | k | 01:05 |
| gokrokve | it looks like HARestarter will have always problems as it refers to instance. Is there any test for HAREstarter? | 01:06 |
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| asalkeld | don't think so | 01:07 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb, maybe we should just delete that resource | 01:07 |
| asalkeld | no deprecation | 01:07 |
| zaneb | I've been fighting a losing battle against sdake just to get it deprecated | 01:08 |
| asalkeld | really? | 01:08 |
| zaneb | problem is there's no upgrade path on the horizon | 01:08 |
| zaneb | which may be a reason not to remove it yet | 01:09 |
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| zaneb | isn't a reason not to deprecate imo | 01:09 |
| asalkeld | we just need generic actions on resources | 01:09 |
| asalkeld | that an alarm can be hooked up to | 01:09 |
| asalkeld | then be able to discover them | 01:09 |
| asalkeld | so we can have alarm - > policy -> resource.<action> | 01:10 |
| asalkeld | atm it's a bit hard coded | 01:10 |
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| gokrokve | zaneb: I am not sure that HARestarter will erver work. In my simple template it has circular dependency. | 01:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Deprecate HARestarter resource https://review.openstack.org/88115 | 01:24 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: here you go ^ | 01:24 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, how about make a bp to solve the problem better, then link it in the git commit | 01:25 |
| zaneb | that sounds like work | 01:25 |
| asalkeld | well it can be a simple bp | 01:26 |
| zaneb | but more importantly, I don't think that problem can/should be solved better in Heat | 01:26 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, I somewhat agree, but I think we need better tools to piece together a solution | 01:26 |
| zaneb | that may be true, yes | 01:27 |
| asalkeld | (better actions that alarms can trigger) | 01:27 |
| asalkeld | and maybe docs | 01:27 |
| asalkeld | how to make your server ha ... | 01:27 |
| asalkeld | so I don't think a lot to do really | 01:28 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: right ideally we'd make os-collect-config use eventlet, and make all of its requests in parallel, including refreshing the heat API token a few minutes before it expires. | 01:40 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: of course.. this whole token thing is exposing why amazon's "until user revokes it" keypairs are far more scalable than tokens. | 01:41 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: Perhaps we should consider using OAUTH | 01:41 |
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| stevebaker | oh sure, in the medium term | 01:42 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: or use a push to object store + tempurl to make scaling dead easy | 01:43 |
| SpamapS | and then just let those w/o swift do direct queries to heat-api | 01:44 |
| SpamapS | I really do wish we could just assume swift always | 01:44 |
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| SpamapS | it is _critical_ to have object storage for 99% of all apps that are actually cloud-tolerant and not just traditional apps moved to virtualization disguised as cloud | 01:45 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: do you enable swift in undercloud currently? | 01:47 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: it would be fairly trivial to do so | 01:49 |
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| stevebaker | I'd like to consider swift... on a day I'm not fighting so many fires | 01:50 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: didn't know there were fires. Ignore my optimization exuberance. ;) | 01:51 |
| stevebaker | I just want to get heat-slow voting again | 01:52 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: anything I can review or help with? | 01:52 |
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| stevebaker | could you take a look at the heat-side structured config merge resource which lifeless was asking for? | 01:54 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: sure, not sure what that is tho | 01:56 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: we talked about it in #tripleo yesterday, ~22 hours ago | 02:00 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: hi | 02:20 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I'd wait on that honestly for graceful etc | 02:20 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I think what we have is probably sufficient, though I need to check that nova works with repeated sections | 02:20 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: SpamapS: I believe swift is enabled in undercloud, but not seed. It should be in both anyhow. | 02:24 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: so I suspect matthew is going to need considerably more pointers on what to do to move this forward - is someone with deep heat experience on it ? | 02:29 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: are you tracing what is causing all those db operations currently? | 02:30 |
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| stevebaker | lifeless: I'll see if I can reproduce with this tempest test I'm running at the moment | 02:42 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: thanks; bunch of folk at HP are panicing - -its a nasty scaling surprise | 02:44 |
| stevebaker | yeah | 02:46 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: are you running a single heat-engine? | 02:47 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: currently | 02:51 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: we're working on HA control plane right now, after which we'll be running three (but that only gets us to 120 nodes with the current scaling factor) | 02:51 |
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| lifeless | :q | 02:56 |
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| SpamapS | lifeless: the problem seems well understood from what I read in backscroll | 02:59 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: We have to parse the stack to make sure the access key we're using is allowed to access the metadata we're accessing... | 03:00 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: so simplest thing is to pre-populate that information for each piece of metadata | 03:01 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: yes but how to fix it isn't communicated sufficiently for the current assignee to drive a fix, is my fear. | 03:02 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: ah | 03:03 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: btw, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72533/ can be abandoned | 03:05 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: if stevebaker or zaneb are doing the fix, thats cool and different | 03:16 |
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| stevebaker | Any cores around to review this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87077/ Its preventing related tempest changes from progressing | 04:27 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: sorry, I -1'd .. Happy to be educated that I'm wrong though. :) | 05:25 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/python-heatclient: Add a description of how stack-abandon works https://review.openstack.org/86979 | 05:29 |
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| bappa | hello all,i have launched a satck with autoscaling template and its working fine but the webserver group instance is unable to install yum in that instance.Instance is of fedora 20 and i am able to ping 8.8.8.8..can anyone help me resolving this issue? | 06:33 |
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| Qiming | bappa: do you need to install yum? | 06:35 |
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| Qiming | or you mean you cannot do yum install? | 06:35 |
| bappa | yes | 06:35 |
| bappa | i want to install stress command but for that i need to have yum updated | 06:36 |
| Qiming | can you ping some well-known domains? | 06:36 |
| bappa | no | 06:37 |
| skraynev | Morning all | 06:37 |
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| Qiming | bappa: sounds like a DNS problem | 06:37 |
| Qiming | bappa: quick/dirty solution would be modifying the /etc/resolv.conf, by adding some known DNS servers | 06:39 |
| bappa | i am able to ping to 174.143.194.225(openstack.org) | 06:40 |
| bappa | i have tried that | 06:40 |
| Qiming | bappa: you mean you can do 'ping openstack.org' ? | 06:41 |
| bappa | yes i can ping to ip of openstack.org | 06:42 |
| Qiming | you can "ping 174.143.194.225" or "ping openstack.org" or both? | 06:43 |
| bappa | i able to ping 174.143.194.225 but not openstack.org | 06:45 |
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| Qiming | bappa: that means you may have a DNS problem as I suspected | 06:46 |
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| bappa | <Qiming>so what i need to do solve thos problem? | 06:48 |
| Qiming | bappa: quick/dirty solution would be modifying the /etc/resolv.conf, by adding some known DNS servers | 06:48 |
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| bappa | <Qiming>i tried to add some dns servers in /etc/resolv.conf but after doing networking restart whatever extra DNS servers i have added will not be saved.. | 06:51 |
| Qiming | you don't have to restart network | 06:53 |
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| therve | Good morning | 06:54 |
| Qiming | morning, therve | 06:54 |
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| bappa | i will try adding into resolv.conf and get back to you.. | 06:57 |
| bappa | thanks.. | 06:57 |
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| therve | SpamapS, https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/migration/alembic_migrations/versions/128e042a2b68_ext_gw_mode.py | 07:09 |
| therve | The column enable_snat has always been True by default and design | 07:10 |
| sdake_ | bappa are you using neutron | 07:12 |
| sdake_ | bappa if you are, you can use a neutron cli to set the dns servers that neutron serves up via dhcp | 07:12 |
| sdake_ | bappa I don't recall exactly what the commands are - try jpeeler in about 10 hours | 07:13 |
| sdake_ | asalkeld might know as well | 07:13 |
| sdake_ | I can't get neutron to work - so count me out :( | 07:13 |
| sdake_ | bed time | 07:14 |
| Qiming | sdake, good night | 07:14 |
| asalkeld | sdake_ what's that | 07:14 |
| asalkeld | ... looking around innocently | 07:15 |
| * asalkeld goes back to work .. | 07:15 | |
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| Qiming | anyone knows how to create/list domains using keystone? | 07:16 |
| therve | You need to use the openstack cli | 07:17 |
| Qiming | therve, thanks. it is not exposed thru keystoneclient yet ... | 07:18 |
| therve | Qiming, It won't | 07:18 |
| mattoliverau | Night all, Have a happy easter! | 07:18 |
| Qiming | so ... it is and will remain to be an (internal) API, not supposed to be used at command line | 07:19 |
| therve | No. | 07:19 |
| therve | You need to use the openstack command line, that's all :) | 07:19 |
| therve | Although domains may already be deprecated, so who knows | 07:20 |
| Qiming | aha, checking | 07:20 |
| sdake_ | asalkeld setting the dns in neutron | 07:20 |
| sdake_ | asalkeld I think you mentioned how to do this via devstack | 07:21 |
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| sdake_ | bappa had a q about it but he disappeared | 07:21 |
| sdake_ | and now, off to bed :) | 07:21 |
| Qiming | asalkeld shows an innocent face again ... :) | 07:21 |
| asalkeld | mm, not sure I have done that | 07:27 |
| asalkeld | (making supper) | 07:27 |
| therve | You need to set dnsmasq_dns_servers in the dhcp agent conf, fwiw | 07:28 |
| Qiming | umm, openstack cli seems not providing anything about keystone domains | 07:28 |
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| therve | Maybe your version is out of date | 07:34 |
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| SpamapS | therve: cool, let's document that in the review at the very least | 07:50 |
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| shardy | Qiming, therve: You have to pass --os-identity-api-version=3 to the openstack cli for v3 keystone | 07:56 |
| shardy | for some unfathomable reason it still defaults to v2 | 07:56 |
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| shardy | with no automatic version discovery | 07:56 |
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| shardy | Qiming: This bz, and my blog post from yesterday have plenty of examples of using the openstack cli: | 07:57 |
| shardy | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1076611 | 07:57 |
| uvirtbot | shardy: Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.redhat.com: HTTP Error 404: Not Found | 07:57 |
| Qiming | shardy: oooh, I was so impatient, I started exploring domains before I finished reading the post | 07:58 |
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| shardy | Qiming: If you just want quick examples, see comment #9 of that bz | 08:00 |
| Qiming | shardy: sadly, I just torn down my devstack setup to do an upgrade, ... which is now turned out to be a mess ... | 08:03 |
| cmyster | morning | 08:04 |
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| pas-ha | morning all | 08:09 |
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| shardy | therve: just replied to your snapshot ML post, sorry for the delay | 08:15 |
| therve | shardy, No worries, thanks :) | 08:16 |
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| cmyster | nosetests test_soft_conf.py | 08:24 |
| cmyster | oh | 08:24 |
| cmyster | more coffee.... | 08:24 |
| * shardy is actually not supposed to be working today.. | 08:25 | |
| shardy | Have a good weekend all! | 08:25 |
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| SpamapS | hrm | 08:28 |
| SpamapS | Reading through the user/access policy/etc. code, I think all ininstance users might be able to view all metadata. | 08:28 |
| SpamapS | lovely | 08:29 |
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| cmyster | If I create a software configuration programmatically (tempest) and I don't assign it to a server, should I see it in the DB anywhere ? | 08:30 |
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| SpamapS | cmyster: yes | 08:32 |
| SpamapS | cmyster: deployments are what gets assigned to a server | 08:32 |
| cmyster | nm found the table... too early for me to connect software_config to a software_config table :) | 08:34 |
| cmyster | What are the steps here? create a configuration, a nova server and then assign the software to the server and expect that when a stack is launched it will follow the config ? | 08:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Make template validation uniform https://review.openstack.org/86623 | 08:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Push COMPLETE status change at the end of update https://review.openstack.org/88075 | 09:13 |
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| ttx | stevebaker, zaneb: about to ship heat | 09:40 |
| ttx | last minutes for complains :) | 09:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Do not use suppport message if it's None https://review.openstack.org/87184 | 10:33 |
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| saju_m | Hi, friends | 10:51 |
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| saju_m | I got an error while trying to launch a stack. Here is the log : https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1308959 | 10:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Undecided,New] | 10:52 |
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| pas-ha | saju_m: see my reply on the bug page | 11:34 |
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| saju_m | pas-ha: thanks, let me try | 13:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | lvdongbing proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix rollback failure when updating stack if the parameters change https://review.openstack.org/88306 | 13:57 |
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| saju_m | pas-ha: cloud you please check my update : https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1308959 | 14:20 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Low,Incomplete] | 14:20 |
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| Qiming_ | saju_m: do you have qemu-kvm installed? | 14:25 |
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| saju_m | Qiming: i think, qemu-kvm is missing. qemu-kvm: command not found | 14:41 |
| saju_m | Qiming: Can i run #sudo apt-get install qemu-utils ? | 14:43 |
| jdob | how does heat know if a template is HOT or CFN? is it by some chance if the heat_template_version is present? | 14:43 |
| saju_m | Qiming: How to install qemu-kvm ?. I tries apt-get install qemu-kvm, but failed , see http://paste.openstack.org/show/76128/ | 14:46 |
| saju_m | Qiming: I already installed qemu-utils, but that doesn'tcontains qemu-kvm. | 14:46 |
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| therve | saju_m, That doesn't look like a heat problem. | 14:49 |
| therve | jdob, Not only present, but with a specific value | 14:49 |
| jdob | i think I found the code now, but thanks therve | 14:50 |
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| goneri | saju_m: apt-get install qemu | 14:51 |
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| goneri | saju_m: qemu-kvm is deprecated | 14:51 |
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| saju_m | goneri: so i don't need to install qemu-kvm, right ? | 14:52 |
| saju_m | goneri: I am looking for a solution for https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1308959/comments/3 | 14:53 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Low,Incomplete] | 14:53 |
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| jdob | jasond: you're Jason Dunsmore, right? | 15:00 |
| jasond | jdob: yes | 15:00 |
| jdob | can you please take a look at my last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1289560 ? | 15:00 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1289560 in heat "Missing template version breaks template parsing" [Medium,In progress] | 15:00 |
| jdob | i want to make sure this shouldn't be recategorized as a scarier bug | 15:01 |
| jasond | jdob: reading | 15:02 |
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| jasond | jdob: sounds plausible | 15:03 |
| jdob | it looks like it could mean support for 2012-12-12 templates is very busted, but it's also terribly possible i'm reading this wrong | 15:03 |
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| jasond | jdob: looks like you did some in-depth research. would you mind posting a few file/line number references in that bug? did you use the same example template? | 15:06 |
| jdob | absolutely, and i'll keep working on it. i just wanted to raise it in case it does in fact mean all 2012-12-12 template support is broken | 15:06 |
| jasond | yikes. is that what you're seeing? | 15:07 |
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| jdob | its an assumption; if 2012-12-12 maps to CfnTemplate, a valid one will never pass validation | 15:08 |
| jdob | i'm missing the larger picture of Heat, but I'm guessing it runs validation on pretty much on stack create and update | 15:09 |
| jdob | so my guess is that even a valid 2012-12-12 template would get spit out as invalid | 15:09 |
| jasond | jdob: i'll test that | 15:09 |
| jdob | appreciate it, I don't have a good example off hand | 15:10 |
| therve | jdag, Why would a valid one never pass validation? | 15:10 |
| jdob | not trying to cause a panic :) | 15:10 |
| jdob | therve: there's code that makes sure the top level sections in a template are valid | 15:10 |
| therve | Yes | 15:11 |
| jdob | which is to say, one of an enumerated set of valid sections | 15:11 |
| jdob | there's a different set for HOT and CFN | 15:11 |
| therve | Correct | 15:11 |
| jdob | so if a HOT template is checked against the CFN section list, it'll barf saying it has stuff that isn't CFN valid | 15:11 |
| therve | 2012-12-12 is not HOT | 15:11 |
| jdob | OH | 15:11 |
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| zaneb | yeah, it looks to be working perfectly to me | 15:11 |
| therve | 2013-05-23 is | 15:12 |
| zaneb | except that we're not failing when there's no version provided at all | 15:12 |
| jdob | ya, ok | 15:12 |
| zaneb | which is not an entirely bad thing | 15:12 |
| jdob | thats defaulting to 2012-12-12 | 15:12 |
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| zaneb | but different from what we decided on ;) | 15:12 |
| jdob | but i'm passing in a HOT template | 15:12 |
| jdob | which is where my confusion came from | 15:12 |
| zaneb | jdob: right, but if you don't pass a version we have no idea what it is | 15:13 |
| jdob | ok, jasond, sorry about that, I was grossly mistaken | 15:13 |
| jasond | jdob: no problem, thanks for looking into that bug | 15:13 |
| zaneb | jdob: I added a comment to the bug btw | 15:13 |
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| jdob | zaneb: not sure I follow. you mention that without a version is considered to be 2012-12-12, but then that the version is necessary | 15:15 |
| zaneb | in the past that was always the default version | 15:16 |
| zaneb | during icehouse it was changed to fail early if there wasn't a version | 15:16 |
| zaneb | the default still exists later on to ease the unit test transition :/ | 15:16 |
| jdob | ah, ok | 15:16 |
| zaneb | so we're relying on it failing early | 15:16 |
| jdob | so the desired end result is that a version is now required | 15:16 |
| zaneb | that was the intention, yes | 15:17 |
| jdob | ok, that helps a lot, let me see if I can hunt down why that early check isn't being run | 15:18 |
| jdob | the alternative is removing the default entirely; the only hesitation has been the tediousness of updating all of the unit tests? | 15:18 |
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| zaneb | pretty much | 15:19 |
| jdob | kk | 15:20 |
| jdob | thanks everyone, sorry for the mistake :) | 15:20 |
| zaneb | np, thanks for looking into it :) | 15:21 |
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| Qiming | hi | 15:25 |
| Qiming | any bug report related to floating ip? | 15:26 |
| Qiming | I'm not sure I have hit one | 15:26 |
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| Qiming | Cannot ping to the floating IP created using OS::Neutron::FloatingIP, but can ping it if do 'neutron floatingip-create' manually | 15:27 |
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| Qiming | got it. | 15:40 |
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| Qiming | the heat-templates/hot/severs_in_existing_neutron_net.yaml is broken | 15:41 |
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| Qiming | there is no default security group associated with a Neutron::Port created, has to add one so that ping/ssh works | 15:42 |
| therve | Well that's not really broken | 15:46 |
| Qiming | therve: :P | 15:46 |
| sdake | morning | 15:47 |
| Qiming | therve: should we have the port use the 'default' security group, or should we fix the sample template? | 15:47 |
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| Qiming | sdake: morning | 15:48 |
| therve | Qiming, I'd change the template | 15:49 |
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| Qiming | therve: thanks, will raise a bug in heat-templates, and fix it soon | 15:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Implement snapshots for servers and images https://review.openstack.org/87280 | 15:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Thomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add APIs to create and manipulate snapshots https://review.openstack.org/87279 | 15:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Thomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add RPC method to snapshot stacks https://review.openstack.org/87278 | 15:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Thomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add database model to store snapshots https://review.openstack.org/87277 | 15:52 |
| Qiming | it's bed time. bye! | 15:53 |
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| wirehead_ | zaneb: yeah, well my urge to forcibly make other people's lives a bit sillier often needs to be offset by my urge to not be "that guy". | 16:04 |
| zaneb | lol | 16:04 |
| wirehead_ | So you just heard the silly comment I'd stored up for when business was resolved. :D | 16:05 |
| SpamapS | morning ladies and germs | 16:08 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: when you're around, I'd like to pick your brain about access policies and deployments (mainly, is it intentional that all stack users seemingly can read all other servers' metadata) | 17:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Allow filtering of stacks by action https://review.openstack.org/86102 | 17:20 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Make template validation uniform https://review.openstack.org/86623 | 17:20 |
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| mspreitz | I note with appreciation http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/86 ... | 17:35 |
| mspreitz | Although my group has been working on a little different solution, I think we are seeing the same problem. | 17:36 |
| mspreitz | I am curious about motivation. What use cases prompted the Stack (rather than Resource) side of that? | 17:36 |
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| SpamapS | mspreitz: aha! | 17:38 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: we need this as well | 17:38 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: this is especially useful as the mechanism we can use for rolling update control. | 17:39 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: can you explain how that would go? | 17:39 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: Well I think that the idea is to work more like wait conditions and just wait for a signal from somewhere else. | 17:40 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: having callbacks is problematic.. unless we use something like Marconi where we can be safely abstracted from the users. | 17:40 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: but just handing out a signal URL and letting the result of that signal dictate the flow of rolling updates is much simpler. | 17:41 |
| mspreitz | That's about the Resource side rather than the Stack side, right? | 17:42 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: Your use case is for Resource callbacks rather than Stack callbacks, right? | 17:44 |
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| SpamapS | mspreitz: yes. I don't really know why the stack would be different. | 17:57 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: I think the point is that the stack lifecycle is different from the Resource one, so different callbacks would apply | 17:57 |
| mspreitz | A Stack is a different kind of thing compared to a Resource | 17:58 |
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| mspreitz | In my own work I am interested specifically in Stack lifecycle | 17:58 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: It's sort of like saying the engine's lifecycle is different than the pistons. You know the engine has cycled when the last piston fires. | 17:59 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: handle the resource case, and the stack case just becomes an invisible resource that depends on everything. | 17:59 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: I could rephrase you to say a human being's lifecycle is just like the lifecycle of an individual organ | 18:00 |
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| mspreitz | SpamapS: but I do not believe taht | 18:00 |
| mspreitz | s/taht/that/ | 18:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dan Prince proposed a change to openstack/heat: Support multiple heatclient versions for SD https://review.openstack.org/88379 | 18:02 |
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| SpamapS | mspreitz: eh... a human being doesn't have a single well defined purpose. Entire philosophy libraries will support me there. :) | 18:04 |
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| mspreitz | SpamapS: sounds like you are agreeing with my disagreement | 18:05 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: but a human being does have a defined lifecycle, and indeed, the last breath is identical to the end of the human. | 18:05 |
| SpamapS | ;) | 18:05 |
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| SpamapS | mspreitz: No not really. If we're going to use humans as an allegory for cloud applications, then a human would mark the desired state, and the completion of whatever the last step on the way to that desired state would be identical to the state. | 18:06 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: my point is that there's no special case for stack. | 18:07 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: I have to attend a meeting now, more later | 18:07 |
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| zaneb | wirehead_, radix: any thoughts on merging the Convergence and Autoscaling session proposals? | 18:59 |
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| wirehead_ | zaneb: I'm amenable. They are related. | 19:02 |
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| zaneb | cool, just wanted to make sure radix wasn't hijacking your session ;) | 19:03 |
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| wirehead_ | zaneb: well, radix reports to me now. | 19:03 |
| wirehead_ | zaneb: I'd say that he does my bidding, but it's probably the other way around | 19:04 |
| wirehead_ | :D | 19:04 |
| zaneb | lol | 19:04 |
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| saurabhs | Spamaps: So currently whatever we have in tripleo-heat-temapltes does it allow us to setup rabbitmq or mysql on separate machines than controller node? | 19:05 |
| wirehead_ | zaneb: so, if you need people to help run sessions, even if it's just someone to run the etherpad, my Auto Scale team will be out in force. | 19:05 |
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| zaneb | excellent | 19:06 |
| zaneb | y'all don't want me driving the etherpad, that's for sure ;) | 19:06 |
| zaneb | no notes would get taken :D | 19:06 |
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| wirehead_ | Yeah. One person runs the discussion, one person takes notes. | 19:07 |
| wirehead_ | That worked really well. | 19:07 |
| SpamapS | saurabhs: No I think it is all still lumped into one controller config | 19:07 |
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| saurabhs | Spamaps: thanks. I just wanted to confirm that. Also I see necessary changes in image-elements to setup rabbit and galera clusters. But I don't see necessary changes for setting up clusters in tripleo-heat templates. Did I understood that correctly? | 19:11 |
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| SpamapS | saurabhs: well, there are some changes.. like listing the hosts and such | 19:30 |
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| greghaynes | The heat changes for rabbit config to do clustering are landed and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83883/ is for galera config | 19:39 |
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| greghaynes | theres definitely more to-do though for actually running multiple of the controller nodes :) | 19:39 |
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| mspreitz | SpamapS: I have a few moments now | 19:43 |
| mspreitz | Let's be concrete | 19:43 |
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| mspreitz | SpamapS: A resource (and presumably a callback for one) is concerned only with itself, not other resources, so would not know when it is last or first, and would not have access to the whole stack/template | 19:44 |
| mspreitz | (at least not principled access) | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: right, so I'm suggesting that the end of the graph can be represented as a resource which depends on all other resources. | 19:45 |
| mspreitz | In failure cases a resource that depends on all others is not invoked | 19:45 |
| mspreitz | and even in success case still does not have principled access to the whole stack | 19:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Jason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Don't use SSH in Rackspace::Cloud::Server https://review.openstack.org/83218 | 19:45 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: and that a stack callback could just be done as that. | 19:46 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: I presume you were typing while I was | 19:46 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: so, I'm on a mission to _eliminate_ stack failure as a state from Heat long term. ;) | 19:46 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: what happens if creation of resource X fails and resource Y depends on X? | 19:46 |
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| SpamapS | mspreitz: Y does not happen, but the stack has other bits that do not necessarily depend on X, and should not be interrupted. | 19:47 |
| mspreitz | I mean, what do you think should happen? | 19:47 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: But if Y depends on all other resources, then Y will not happen | 19:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Jason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Rackspace::Server::SSHWaitCondition resource https://review.openstack.org/85386 | 19:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Jason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Don't use SSH in Rackspace::Cloud::Server https://review.openstack.org/83218 | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: agreed. I believe we have reached clarity :) | 19:48 |
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| mspreitz | ? | 19:48 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: It feels like an observer pattern is needed here, and I think that is what you're arguing for. | 19:48 |
| mspreitz | If I try to implement a POST CREATE stack callback by doing it from a resource that depends on all others, the POST CREATE callback will be omitted if any other resource creation fails. That's bad. | 19:49 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: Yes, an observer pattern | 19:49 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: Yes, so I'm suggesting that what is really needed is a notification stream (observer pattern), for the whole stack. | 19:49 |
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| mspreitz | OK, maybe I agreeed too quickly. I want synchronous involvement, not just notification some time later | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: but are you also suggesting that this callback actually needs to be able to "fail" the stack as well? | 19:50 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: Yes, I would like the callback to be able to reject the stack operation. | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | Ok. It all makes more sense to me now that we've gone through this exercise. | 19:51 |
| mspreitz | I would also like the callback to be able to prepare for later operations before they happen --- e.g., make a joint placement decision before the placed resources are created. | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | Well that is resource callbacks, which I totally got before. ;) | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | and placement... man I know where you're going with the "holistic scheduling looks a lot like a heat stack" thing.. but it is a bit scary for me to expand Heat's scope that far. | 19:52 |
| mspreitz | That's not exactly it | 19:53 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: even the placement input is not a Heat template, there are difficulties | 19:53 |
| mspreitz | See https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88080/ --- it outlines a 4 phase API for Nova ... | 19:53 |
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| mspreitz | Doing that with 4 sets of resources is going to be unnecessarily ugly | 19:54 |
| mspreitz | I'd rather describe each thing once and left a stack lifecycle plugin go back and forth over them | 19:54 |
| mspreitz | s/left/let | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: Forgive me if I lack enthusiasm for all of this optimisation. I'd prefer we make Nova work well enough to be a viable on-premise alternative to AWS before we start aiming it at replacing the s390 series. ;) | 19:55 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: Well, your enthusiasm is your business | 19:55 |
| mspreitz | But I hear what you are saying about overall quality and usability | 19:55 |
| mspreitz | I agree there too | 19:56 |
| mspreitz | SpamapS: anyway, thanks for the discussion, I understand better now | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | mspreitz: cool. Thanks for explaining what you're getting at too. I do like the idea of being able to observe and even influence state changes on a stack. | 19:58 |
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| mspreitz | Gotta go again | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | sdake_ thx btw for the answers to the y! mail questions (and/or confusion), think we got them resolved, but they do seem very interested in autosccaling (as would be expected, haha) | 21:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions. https://review.openstack.org/87293 | 21:15 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: you going to be around today? | 21:19 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: I am | 21:20 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: easter be damned | 21:20 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: :) | 21:21 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: so the access policies... | 21:23 |
| stevebaker | yes | 21:23 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I didn't think much about it while deployments was being reviewed, but it looks to me like they got lost in the implementation. | 21:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Jason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Move API parameter parsing from engine to API https://review.openstack.org/88444 | 21:26 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: I don't think so, unless I missed something. talk me through it | 21:26 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: for the callback issue, I think we can make the built-in callbacks work without requiring a fully loaded stack by saving a list of resources which registered as callbacks and only loading those | 21:27 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: right, so I can't seem to find where an access policy is created for the signal responder users. | 21:27 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: so the policy is "resource:metadata": "", | 21:28 |
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| stevebaker | which is meh, anyone! | 21:28 |
| stevebaker | middleware asserts there credentials are valid and they are associated with a specific project | 21:29 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: right, so that means my api nodes can fetch the database password | 21:29 |
| SpamapS | and host | 21:29 |
| stevebaker | then all the relevant sqlalchemy api methods filter by | 21:30 |
| SpamapS | I think it would probably be fairly straight forward to directly tie signal responder users to their resource. | 21:30 |
| stevebaker | sd.tenant == context.tenant_id, | 21:30 |
| stevebaker | sd.stack_user_project_id == context.tenant_id | 21:30 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: Right that is not sufficient. | 21:30 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: unless I make each and every server live in its own tenant. | 21:31 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: each stack is in its own tenant. the credentials on the server match to the tenant specified by stack_user_project_id | 21:32 |
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| SpamapS | you're not hearing me | 21:32 |
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| SpamapS | I need to isolate each server's deployment data from the other servers. | 21:33 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: so within a stack, OS::Heat::AccessPolicy allowed me to say "this user, which I create now, can only access the metadata for these resources. | 21:34 |
| SpamapS | " | 21:34 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: with deployments, the intrinsic user that is fed into the server, can access _all_ of the resources in that stack. | 21:34 |
| stevebaker | yes it could, if it new the nova server id | 21:35 |
| SpamapS | Name | 21:35 |
| SpamapS | it just needs the name | 21:35 |
| SpamapS | and even if it is just name, the ids aren't treated as secrets, so entirely possible that will leak | 21:36 |
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| stevebaker | no, I'm not saying they are | 21:36 |
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| stevebaker | it looks like deployments should store and filter by the user UUID too | 21:36 |
| SpamapS | Right since signal_responder creates a user for the resource.. seems like a simple thing to just save that user id in the resource record. | 21:37 |
| SpamapS | anyway... | 21:38 |
| stevebaker | yep. I had assumed that isolated at the stack level would be enough, but resource level would be better | 21:38 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: it's a regression for us | 21:38 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I just assumed the signal responder users were limited to their intended resource. | 21:38 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: you know, I think they are if you query via resource-metadata (either cfn or heat-api) but they are not for the underlying deployment api which actually queries the metadata | 21:41 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I don't see where they register a callback for access control.. ? | 21:42 |
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| stevebaker | probably to allow for more complex policies than we actually need | 21:43 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: calls to register_access_allowed_handler http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/heat/tree/heat/engine/resources/server.py#n388 | 21:47 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: there might be some hinky handlers in the AWS resources | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: oh.. weird | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: ok so my bug is invalid | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: now, the reason I thought that was I was looking at the native API bits to just fetch the deployments. | 21:49 |
| stevebaker | not yet, the stack-load path is still in the way | 21:50 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: ok, so let's divide up "optimize resource show" a bit... | 21:53 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: you said you're already looking at fetching resource_data all at once. Yes? | 21:54 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: yes, looking at that now. It should make a huge difference | 21:59 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: I wonder if we can also lazy-load resources | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: as in, stack.load would just select the stack record but the resources would only come as-needed | 22:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions. https://review.openstack.org/87293 | 22:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions. https://review.openstack.org/87293 | 22:29 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: yes, that would be another worthy optimization | 22:32 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: but what I'm seeing is that doing a stack load does not hit the database for stack and resource records, but it does for resource data | 22:33 |
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| sdake | stevebaker can you ring - i want to get rolling pls :) | 22:33 |
| stevebaker | sdake: ok, just a sec | 22:33 |
| sdake | ta | 22:33 |
| sdake | sorry other people depending on me to be somewhere in 30 mins | 22:34 |
| sdake | otherwise i wouldn't mind so much :) | 22:34 |
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| zaneb | that moment where you find a horrible bug in code you thought you wrote, but it turns out it was someone else :) | 22:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Avoid redundant polling of DB for metadata https://review.openstack.org/88457 | 22:45 |
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| zaneb | SpamapS: I'd be interested to hear your results with that ^ patch | 22:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions. https://review.openstack.org/87293 | 22:53 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: _interesting_ | 22:59 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: let me fire up my virt fake driver chaos machine :) | 22:59 |
| zaneb | yah, I suddenly realised while I was reviewing Dimitri's patch above that that could be a big part of the problem | 23:00 |
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| sorantis | meanwhile, while I was trying to submit my first patch :) | 23:06 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: darn property fetchers making things look so simple | 23:06 |
| zaneb | yeah :/ | 23:06 |
| zaneb | starting to think those were a mistake | 23:07 |
| zaneb | sorantis: welcome :) | 23:07 |
| stevebaker | resource.Metadata needs to die | 23:08 |
| sorantis | zaneb: thanks for the review! | 23:08 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: it seemed like such a good idea at the time :D | 23:09 |
| stevebaker | yeah | 23:11 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: sometimes you need to think about the problem from a high level before you can make it actually work down in the bowels | 23:12 |
| SpamapS | I fully expect that things will suck until you actually do try to scale them | 23:13 |
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| SpamapS | lifeless: ^^ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88457 looks promising to improve the situation with heat-engine | 23:16 |
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| SpamapS | lifeless: can you try it on the test rack? | 23:17 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: I thought you're on software-config now, so now waitconditions? | 23:17 |
| stevebaker | no waitcondtions? | 23:17 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: hm, the problems were noticed before the software-config patches landed | 23:18 |
| stevebaker | right | 23:18 |
| SpamapS | I don't know if they've been re-tested w/ it | 23:18 |
| SpamapS | I'm trying but I foolishly suspended my vms .. and kvm decided it didn't want to resume them.. so now dealing with dirty FS issues, argh. | 23:19 |
| stevebaker | looking at the amount of resource_data_get in the software-config paths, my guess would be worse ;) | 23:19 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: damnit | 23:19 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: are we really the first people to try a _40_ node stack? :-/ | 23:20 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: its easter here, I'm not really here | 23:22 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: right now C is sitting in my lap playing ps3, and my 2-factor auth is out of reach | 23:23 |
| SpamapS | hah cool | 23:23 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: so I literally cannot | 23:23 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: looks like the situation is likely not better anyway | 23:23 |
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| SpamapS | since we're not using wait conditions anymore | 23:23 |
| lifeless | yeah, all orm lazy feature == fail | 23:24 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: unfortunately that is wrapped up with "any plugin can ask to be consulted for access" | 23:24 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: so have to unwind that a bit to optimize | 23:25 |
| lifeless | 'oops' | 23:26 |
| lifeless | set based apis only thanks | 23:26 |
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| lifeless | the terrible thing about naive rest is the tendency to potato programming - and it bleeds deep into the api impl | 23:26 |
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| zaneb | lifeless: interesting, I hadn't heard that term before | 23:29 |
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| zaneb | I wouldn't blame rest here though | 23:30 |
| zaneb | this is just what happens when you set a bunch of C programmers loose in Python ;) | 23:30 |
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| lifeless | zaneb: heh :) | 23:33 |
| lifeless | zaneb: can happen in C too! | 23:33 |
| zaneb | tell me about it | 23:33 |
| zaneb | try creating 4096 VLANs in the kernel + hardware, one at a time, and let me know how that goes ;) | 23:34 |
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| lifeless | terribly slow | 23:35 |
| lifeless | need a _v API | 23:35 |
| zaneb | trick question, you can only have 4095 VLANs | 23:36 |
| zaneb | but yes, that's what we did | 23:36 |
| zaneb | did I mention the 4 layers of message passing in between? | 23:37 |
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| lifeless | zaneb: no; but I can imagine | 23:59 |
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| lifeless | zaneb: openvswitch gre key ids and tunnel config has the same issue w/neutron | 23:59 |
| lifeless | zaneb: *terrible* startup times | 23:59 |
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