Thursday, 2014-04-17

zanebstevebaker: which meeting room are we in this week?00:00
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stevebaker#openstack-meeting-alt00:01
zanebthanks00:02
zanebI lost track of who drew the short straw on this one?00:02
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Qimingstevebaker: do we still have this meeting scheduled?00:05
zanebQiming: #openstack-meeting-alt00:06
Qimingzaneb: I'm in00:07
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gokrokveHm. I am not sure how this alarm and HARestarter stuff works.00:58
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gokrokveI see instance metadata which refers to Alarm, Alarm refers to HAREstarter policy, HARestarter policy refers to instance00:59
gokrokveSounds like a circular dependency or I am missing something.00:59
zanebbadly01:00
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asalkeldgokrokve, it was pretty much a PoC01:02
Qiminggokrokve: HARestarter should be deprecated, anyway01:02
gokrokveok. makes sense01:02
asalkeldwe were hoping that we would get better server montioring resoruces01:02
gokrokveSo I am just hitting the wall with my head :-)01:02
asalkeldI think these are finally underway01:02
asalkeldbut it could be replaced by a ceilometer alarm and policy01:03
zanebwirehead_: it's not like you to hold off ;)01:04
asalkeld(just need a solid way to monitor the resource in question)01:04
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gokrokveasalkeld: Yes. I use the python method which is used in tempest. some python code which updated cloudwatch metrics01:05
asalkeldk01:05
gokrokveit looks like HARestarter will have always problems as it refers to instance. Is there any test for HAREstarter?01:06
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asalkelddon't think so01:07
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asalkeldzaneb, maybe we should just delete that resource01:07
asalkeldno deprecation01:07
zanebI've been fighting a losing battle against sdake just to get it deprecated01:08
asalkeldreally?01:08
zanebproblem is there's no upgrade path on the horizon01:08
zanebwhich may be a reason not to remove it yet01:09
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zanebisn't a reason not to deprecate imo01:09
asalkeldwe just need generic actions on resources01:09
asalkeldthat an alarm can be hooked up to01:09
asalkeldthen be able to discover them01:09
asalkeldso we can have alarm - > policy -> resource.<action>01:10
asalkeldatm it's a bit hard coded01:10
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gokrokvezaneb: I am not sure that HARestarter will erver work. In my simple template it has circular dependency.01:10
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openstackgerritZane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Deprecate HARestarter resource  https://review.openstack.org/8811501:24
zanebasalkeld: here you go ^01:24
asalkeldzaneb, how about make a bp to solve the problem better, then link it in the git commit01:25
zanebthat sounds like work01:25
asalkeldwell it can be a simple bp01:26
zanebbut more importantly, I don't think that problem can/should be solved better in Heat01:26
asalkeldzaneb, I somewhat agree, but I think we need better tools to piece together a solution01:26
zanebthat may be true, yes01:27
asalkeld(better actions that alarms can trigger)01:27
asalkeldand maybe docs01:27
asalkeldhow to make your server ha ...01:27
asalkeldso I don't think a lot to do really01:28
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SpamapSstevebaker: right ideally we'd make os-collect-config use eventlet, and make all of its requests in parallel, including refreshing the heat API token a few minutes before it expires.01:40
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SpamapSstevebaker: of course.. this whole token thing is exposing why amazon's "until user revokes it" keypairs are far more scalable than tokens.01:41
SpamapSstevebaker: Perhaps we should consider using OAUTH01:41
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stevebakeroh sure, in the medium term01:42
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SpamapSstevebaker: or use a push to object store + tempurl to make scaling dead easy01:43
SpamapSand then just let those w/o swift do direct queries to heat-api01:44
SpamapSI really do wish we could just assume swift always01:44
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SpamapSit is _critical_ to have object storage for 99% of all apps that are actually cloud-tolerant and not just traditional apps moved to virtualization disguised as cloud01:45
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stevebakerSpamapS: do you enable swift in undercloud currently?01:47
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SpamapSstevebaker: it would be fairly trivial to do so01:49
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stevebakerI'd like to consider swift... on a day I'm not fighting so many fires01:50
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SpamapSstevebaker: didn't know there were fires. Ignore my optimization exuberance. ;)01:51
stevebakerI just want to get heat-slow voting again01:52
SpamapSstevebaker: anything I can review or help with?01:52
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stevebakercould you take a look at the heat-side structured config merge resource which lifeless was asking for?01:54
SpamapSstevebaker: sure, not sure what that is tho01:56
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stevebakerSpamapS: we talked about it in #tripleo yesterday, ~22 hours ago02:00
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lifelessSpamapS: hi02:20
lifelessSpamapS: I'd wait on that honestly for graceful etc02:20
lifelessSpamapS: I think what we have is probably sufficient, though I need to check that nova works with repeated sections02:20
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lifelessstevebaker: SpamapS: I believe swift is enabled in undercloud, but not seed. It should be in both anyhow.02:24
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lifelessstevebaker: so I suspect matthew is going to need considerably more pointers on what to do to move this forward - is someone with deep heat experience on it ?02:29
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stevebakerzaneb: are you tracing what is causing all those db operations currently?02:30
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stevebakerlifeless: I'll see if I can reproduce with this tempest test I'm running at the moment02:42
lifelessstevebaker: thanks; bunch of folk at HP are panicing - -its a nasty scaling surprise02:44
stevebakeryeah02:46
stevebakerlifeless: are you running a single heat-engine?02:47
lifelessstevebaker: currently02:51
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lifelessstevebaker: we're working on HA control plane right now, after which we'll be running three (but that only gets us to 120 nodes with the current scaling factor)02:51
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lifeless:q02:56
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SpamapSlifeless: the problem seems well understood from what I read in backscroll02:59
SpamapSlifeless: We have to parse the stack to make sure the access key we're using is allowed to access the metadata we're accessing...03:00
SpamapSlifeless: so simplest thing is to pre-populate that information for each piece of metadata03:01
lifelessSpamapS: yes but how to fix it isn't communicated sufficiently for the current assignee to drive a fix, is my fear.03:02
SpamapSlifeless: ah03:03
SpamapSstevebaker: btw, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72533/ can be abandoned03:05
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lifelessSpamapS: if stevebaker or zaneb are doing the fix, thats cool and different03:16
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stevebakerAny cores around to review this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87077/ Its preventing related tempest changes from progressing04:27
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SpamapSstevebaker: sorry, I -1'd .. Happy to be educated that I'm wrong though. :)05:25
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/python-heatclient: Add a description of how stack-abandon works  https://review.openstack.org/8697905:29
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bappahello all,i have launched a satck with autoscaling template and its working fine but the webserver group instance is unable to install yum in that instance.Instance is of fedora 20 and i am able to ping 8.8.8.8..can anyone help me resolving this issue?06:33
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Qimingbappa: do you need to install yum?06:35
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Qimingor you mean you cannot do yum install?06:35
bappayes06:35
bappai want to install stress command but for that i need to have yum updated06:36
Qimingcan you ping some well-known domains?06:36
bappano06:37
skraynevMorning all06:37
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Qimingbappa: sounds like a DNS problem06:37
Qimingbappa: quick/dirty solution would be modifying the /etc/resolv.conf, by adding some known DNS servers06:39
bappai am able to ping to 174.143.194.225(openstack.org)06:40
bappai have tried that06:40
Qimingbappa: you mean you can do 'ping openstack.org' ?06:41
bappayes i can ping to ip of openstack.org06:42
Qimingyou can "ping 174.143.194.225" or "ping openstack.org" or both?06:43
bappai able to ping   174.143.194.225 but not openstack.org06:45
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Qimingbappa: that means you may have a DNS problem as I suspected06:46
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bappa<Qiming>so what i need to do solve thos problem?06:48
Qiming bappa: quick/dirty solution would be modifying the /etc/resolv.conf, by adding some known DNS servers06:48
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bappa<Qiming>i tried to add some dns servers in /etc/resolv.conf but after doing networking restart whatever extra DNS servers i have added will not be saved..06:51
Qimingyou don't have to restart network06:53
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therveGood morning06:54
Qimingmorning, therve06:54
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bappai will try adding into resolv.conf and get back to you..06:57
bappathanks..06:57
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therveSpamapS, https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/migration/alembic_migrations/versions/128e042a2b68_ext_gw_mode.py07:09
therveThe column enable_snat has always been True by default and design07:10
sdake_bappa are you using neutron07:12
sdake_bappa if you are, you can use a neutron cli to set the dns servers that neutron serves up via dhcp07:12
sdake_bappa I don't recall exactly what the commands are - try jpeeler in about 10 hours07:13
sdake_asalkeld might know as well07:13
sdake_I can't get neutron to work - so count me out :(07:13
sdake_bed time07:14
Qimingsdake, good night07:14
asalkeldsdake_ what's that07:14
asalkeld... looking around innocently07:15
* asalkeld goes back to work ..07:15
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Qiminganyone knows how to create/list domains using keystone?07:16
therveYou need to use the openstack cli07:17
Qimingtherve, thanks. it is not exposed thru keystoneclient yet ...07:18
therveQiming, It won't07:18
mattoliverauNight all, Have a happy easter!07:18
Qimingso ... it is and will remain to be an (internal) API, not supposed to be used at command line07:19
therveNo.07:19
therveYou need to use the openstack command line, that's all :)07:19
therveAlthough domains may already be deprecated, so who knows07:20
Qimingaha, checking07:20
sdake_asalkeld setting the dns in neutron07:20
sdake_asalkeld I think you mentioned how to do this via devstack07:21
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sdake_bappa had a q about it but he disappeared07:21
sdake_and now, off to bed :)07:21
Qimingasalkeld shows an innocent face again ... :)07:21
asalkeldmm, not sure I have done that07:27
asalkeld(making supper)07:27
therveYou need to set dnsmasq_dns_servers in the dhcp agent conf, fwiw07:28
Qimingumm, openstack cli seems not providing anything about keystone domains07:28
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therveMaybe your version is out of date07:34
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SpamapStherve: cool, let's document that in the review at the very least07:50
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shardyQiming, therve: You have to pass --os-identity-api-version=3 to the openstack cli for v3 keystone07:56
shardyfor some unfathomable reason it still defaults to v207:56
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shardywith no automatic version discovery07:56
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shardyQiming: This bz, and my blog post from yesterday have plenty of examples of using the openstack cli:07:57
shardyhttps://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=107661107:57
uvirtbotshardy: Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.redhat.com: HTTP Error 404: Not Found07:57
Qimingshardy: oooh, I was so impatient, I started exploring domains before I finished reading the post07:58
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shardyQiming: If you just want quick examples, see comment #9 of that bz08:00
Qimingshardy: sadly, I just torn down my devstack setup to do an upgrade, ... which is now turned out to be a mess ...08:03
cmystermorning08:04
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pas-hamorning all08:09
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shardytherve: just replied to your snapshot ML post, sorry for the delay08:15
therveshardy, No worries, thanks :)08:16
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cmysternosetests test_soft_conf.py08:24
cmysteroh08:24
cmystermore coffee....08:24
* shardy is actually not supposed to be working today..08:25
shardyHave a good weekend all!08:25
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SpamapShrm08:28
SpamapSReading through the user/access policy/etc. code, I think all ininstance users might be able to view all metadata.08:28
SpamapSlovely08:29
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cmysterIf I create a software configuration programmatically (tempest) and I don't assign it to a server, should I see it in the DB anywhere ?08:30
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SpamapScmyster: yes08:32
SpamapScmyster: deployments are what gets assigned to a server08:32
cmysternm found the table... too early for me to connect software_config to a software_config table :)08:34
cmysterWhat are the steps here? create a configuration, a nova server and then assign the software to the server and expect that when a stack is launched it will follow the config ?08:38
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openstackgerritSergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Make template validation uniform  https://review.openstack.org/8662308:40
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/heat: Push COMPLETE status change at the end of update  https://review.openstack.org/8807509:13
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ttxstevebaker, zaneb: about to ship heat09:40
ttxlast minutes for complains :)09:41
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/heat: Do not use suppport message if it's None  https://review.openstack.org/8718410:33
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saju_mHi, friends10:51
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saju_mI got an error while trying to launch a stack. Here is the log : https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/130895910:52
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Undecided,New]10:52
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pas-hasaju_m: see my reply on the bug page11:34
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saju_mpas-ha: thanks, let me try13:52
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openstackgerritlvdongbing proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix rollback failure when updating stack if the parameters change  https://review.openstack.org/8830613:57
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saju_mpas-ha: cloud you please check my update : https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/130895914:20
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Low,Incomplete]14:20
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Qiming_saju_m: do you have qemu-kvm installed?14:25
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saju_mQiming: i think, qemu-kvm is missing. qemu-kvm: command not found14:41
saju_mQiming: Can i run #sudo apt-get install qemu-utils ?14:43
jdobhow does heat know if a template is HOT or CFN? is it by some chance if the heat_template_version is present?14:43
saju_mQiming: How to install qemu-kvm ?. I tries apt-get install qemu-kvm, but failed , see http://paste.openstack.org/show/76128/14:46
saju_mQiming: I already installed qemu-utils, but that doesn'tcontains qemu-kvm.14:46
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thervesaju_m, That doesn't look like a heat problem.14:49
thervejdob, Not only present, but with a specific value14:49
jdobi think I found the code now, but thanks therve14:50
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gonerisaju_m: apt-get install qemu14:51
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gonerisaju_m: qemu-kvm is deprecated14:51
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saju_mgoneri: so i don't need to install qemu-kvm, right ?14:52
saju_mgoneri: I am looking for a solution for https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1308959/comments/314:53
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1308959 in heat "Launch Stack Operation Fails with error: no valid host was found" [Low,Incomplete]14:53
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jdobjasond: you're Jason Dunsmore, right?15:00
jasondjdob: yes15:00
jdobcan you please take a look at my last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1289560 ?15:00
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1289560 in heat "Missing template version breaks template parsing" [Medium,In progress]15:00
jdobi want to make sure this shouldn't be recategorized as a scarier bug15:01
jasondjdob: reading15:02
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jasondjdob: sounds plausible15:03
jdobit looks like it could mean support for 2012-12-12 templates is very busted, but it's also terribly possible i'm reading this wrong15:03
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jasondjdob: looks like you did some in-depth research.  would you mind posting a few file/line number references in that bug?  did you use the same example template?15:06
jdobabsolutely, and i'll keep working on it. i just wanted to raise it in case it does in fact mean all 2012-12-12 template support is broken15:06
jasondyikes.  is that what you're seeing?15:07
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jdobits an assumption; if 2012-12-12 maps to CfnTemplate, a valid one will never pass validation15:08
jdobi'm missing the larger picture of Heat, but I'm guessing it runs validation on pretty much on stack create and update15:09
jdobso my guess is that even a valid 2012-12-12 template would get spit out as invalid15:09
jasondjdob: i'll test that15:09
jdobappreciate it, I don't have a good example off hand15:10
thervejdag, Why would a valid one never pass validation?15:10
jdobnot trying to cause a panic :)15:10
jdobtherve: there's code that makes sure the top level sections in a template are valid15:10
therveYes15:11
jdobwhich is to say, one of an enumerated set of valid sections15:11
jdobthere's a different set for HOT and CFN15:11
therveCorrect15:11
jdobso if a HOT template is checked against the CFN section list, it'll barf saying it has stuff that isn't CFN valid15:11
therve2012-12-12 is not HOT15:11
jdobOH15:11
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zanebyeah, it looks to be working perfectly to me15:11
therve2013-05-23 is15:12
zanebexcept that we're not failing when there's no version provided at all15:12
jdobya, ok15:12
zanebwhich is not an entirely bad thing15:12
jdobthats defaulting to 2012-12-1215:12
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zanebbut different from what we decided on ;)15:12
jdobbut i'm passing in a HOT template15:12
jdobwhich is where my confusion came from15:12
zanebjdob: right, but if you don't pass a version we have no idea what it is15:13
jdobok, jasond, sorry about that, I was grossly mistaken15:13
jasondjdob: no problem, thanks for looking into that bug15:13
zanebjdob: I added a comment to the bug btw15:13
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jdobzaneb: not sure I follow. you mention that without a version is considered to be 2012-12-12, but then that the version is necessary15:15
zanebin the past that was always the default version15:16
zanebduring icehouse it was changed to fail early if there wasn't a version15:16
zanebthe default still exists later on to ease the unit test transition :/15:16
jdobah, ok15:16
zanebso we're relying on it failing early15:16
jdobso the desired end result is that a version is now required15:16
zanebthat was the intention, yes15:17
jdobok, that helps a lot, let me see if I can hunt down why that early check isn't being run15:18
jdobthe alternative is removing the default entirely; the only hesitation has been the tediousness of updating all of the unit tests?15:18
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zanebpretty much15:19
jdobkk15:20
jdobthanks everyone, sorry for the mistake :)15:20
zanebnp, thanks for looking into it :)15:21
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Qiminghi15:25
Qimingany bug report related to floating ip?15:26
QimingI'm not sure I have hit one15:26
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QimingCannot ping to the floating IP created using OS::Neutron::FloatingIP, but can ping it if do 'neutron floatingip-create' manually15:27
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Qiminggot it.15:40
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Qimingthe heat-templates/hot/severs_in_existing_neutron_net.yaml is broken15:41
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Qimingthere is no default security group associated with a Neutron::Port created, has to add one so that ping/ssh works15:42
therveWell that's not really broken15:46
Qimingtherve: :P15:46
sdakemorning15:47
Qimingtherve: should we have the port use the 'default' security group, or should we fix the sample template?15:47
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Qimingsdake: morning15:48
therveQiming, I'd change the template15:49
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Qimingtherve: thanks, will raise a bug in heat-templates, and fix it soon15:50
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openstackgerritThomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Implement snapshots for servers and images  https://review.openstack.org/8728015:51
openstackgerritThomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add APIs to create and manipulate snapshots  https://review.openstack.org/8727915:52
openstackgerritThomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add RPC method to snapshot stacks  https://review.openstack.org/8727815:52
openstackgerritThomas Herve proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add database model to store snapshots  https://review.openstack.org/8727715:52
Qimingit's bed time. bye!15:53
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wirehead_zaneb: yeah, well my urge to forcibly make other people's lives a bit sillier often needs to be offset by my urge to not be "that guy".16:04
zaneblol16:04
wirehead_So you just heard the silly comment I'd stored up for when business was resolved. :D16:05
SpamapSmorning ladies and germs16:08
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SpamapSstevebaker: when you're around, I'd like to pick your brain about access policies and deployments (mainly, is it intentional that all stack users seemingly can read all other servers' metadata)17:02
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/heat: Allow filtering of stacks by action  https://review.openstack.org/8610217:20
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/heat: Make template validation uniform  https://review.openstack.org/8662317:20
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mspreitzI note with appreciation http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/86 ...17:35
mspreitzAlthough my group has been working on a little different solution, I think we are seeing the same problem.17:36
mspreitzI am curious about motivation.  What use cases prompted the Stack (rather than Resource) side of that?17:36
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SpamapSmspreitz: aha!17:38
SpamapSmspreitz: we need this as well17:38
SpamapSmspreitz: this is especially useful as the mechanism we can use for rolling update control.17:39
mspreitzSpamapS: can you explain how that would go?17:39
SpamapSmspreitz: Well I think that the idea is to work more like wait conditions and just wait for a signal from somewhere else.17:40
SpamapSmspreitz: having callbacks is problematic.. unless we use something like Marconi where we can be safely abstracted from the users.17:40
SpamapSmspreitz: but just handing out a signal URL and letting the result of that signal dictate the flow of rolling updates is much simpler.17:41
mspreitzThat's about the Resource side rather than the Stack side, right?17:42
mspreitzSpamapS: Your use case is for Resource callbacks rather than Stack callbacks, right?17:44
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SpamapSmspreitz: yes. I don't really know why the stack would be different.17:57
mspreitzSpamapS: I think the point is that the stack lifecycle is different from the Resource one, so different callbacks would apply17:57
mspreitzA Stack is a different kind of thing compared to a Resource17:58
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mspreitzIn my own work I am interested specifically in Stack lifecycle17:58
SpamapSmspreitz: It's sort of like saying the engine's lifecycle is different than the pistons. You know the engine has cycled when the last piston fires.17:59
SpamapSmspreitz: handle the resource case, and the stack case just becomes an invisible resource that depends on everything.17:59
mspreitzSpamapS: I could rephrase you to say a human being's lifecycle is just like the lifecycle of an individual organ18:00
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mspreitzSpamapS: but I do not believe taht18:00
mspreitzs/taht/that/18:00
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openstackgerritDan Prince proposed a change to openstack/heat: Support multiple heatclient versions for SD  https://review.openstack.org/8837918:02
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SpamapSmspreitz: eh... a human being doesn't have a single well defined purpose. Entire philosophy libraries will support me there. :)18:04
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mspreitzSpamapS: sounds like you are agreeing with my disagreement18:05
SpamapSmspreitz: but a human being does have a defined lifecycle, and indeed, the last breath is identical to the end of the human.18:05
SpamapS;)18:05
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SpamapSmspreitz: No not really. If we're going to use humans as an allegory for cloud applications, then a human would mark the desired state, and the completion of whatever the last step on the way to that desired state would be identical to the state.18:06
SpamapSmspreitz: my point is that there's no special case for stack.18:07
mspreitzSpamapS: I have to attend a meeting now, more later18:07
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zanebwirehead_, radix: any thoughts on merging the Convergence and Autoscaling session proposals?18:59
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wirehead_zaneb: I'm amenable.  They are related.19:02
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zanebcool, just wanted to make sure radix wasn't hijacking your session ;)19:03
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wirehead_zaneb: well, radix reports to me now.19:03
wirehead_zaneb: I'd say that he does my bidding, but it's probably the other way around19:04
wirehead_:D19:04
zaneblol19:04
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saurabhsSpamaps: So currently whatever we have in tripleo-heat-temapltes  does it allow us to setup rabbitmq or mysql on separate machines than controller node?19:05
wirehead_zaneb: so, if you need people to help run sessions, even if it's just someone to run the etherpad, my Auto Scale team will be out in force.19:05
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zanebexcellent19:06
zaneby'all don't want me driving the etherpad, that's for sure ;)19:06
zanebno notes would get taken :D19:06
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wirehead_Yeah.  One person runs the discussion, one person takes notes.19:07
wirehead_That worked really well.19:07
SpamapSsaurabhs: No I think it is all still lumped into one controller config19:07
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saurabhsSpamaps: thanks. I just wanted to confirm that. Also I see necessary changes in image-elements to setup rabbit and galera clusters. But I don't see necessary changes for setting up clusters in tripleo-heat templates. Did I understood that correctly?19:11
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SpamapSsaurabhs: well, there are some changes.. like listing the hosts and such19:30
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greghaynesThe heat changes for rabbit config to do clustering are landed and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83883/ is for galera config19:39
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greghaynestheres definitely more to-do though for actually running multiple of the controller nodes :)19:39
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mspreitzSpamapS: I have a few moments now19:43
mspreitzLet's be concrete19:43
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mspreitzSpamapS: A resource (and presumably a callback for one) is concerned only with itself, not other resources, so would not know when it is last or first, and would not have access to the whole stack/template19:44
mspreitz(at least not principled access)19:44
SpamapSmspreitz: right, so I'm suggesting that the end of the graph can be represented as a resource which depends on all other resources.19:45
mspreitzIn failure cases a resource that depends on all others is not invoked19:45
mspreitzand even in success case still does not have principled access to the whole stack19:45
openstackgerritJason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Don't use SSH in Rackspace::Cloud::Server  https://review.openstack.org/8321819:45
SpamapSmspreitz: and that a stack callback could just be done as that.19:46
mspreitzSpamapS: I presume you were typing while I was19:46
SpamapSmspreitz: so, I'm on a mission to _eliminate_ stack failure as a state from Heat long term. ;)19:46
mspreitzSpamapS: what happens if creation of resource X fails and resource Y depends on X?19:46
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SpamapSmspreitz: Y does not happen, but the stack has other bits that do not necessarily depend on X, and should not be interrupted.19:47
mspreitzI mean, what do you think should happen?19:47
mspreitzSpamapS: But if Y depends on all other resources, then Y will not happen19:47
openstackgerritJason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Rackspace::Server::SSHWaitCondition resource  https://review.openstack.org/8538619:47
openstackgerritJason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Don't use SSH in Rackspace::Cloud::Server  https://review.openstack.org/8321819:47
SpamapSmspreitz: agreed. I believe we have reached clarity :)19:48
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mspreitz?19:48
SpamapSmspreitz: It feels like an observer pattern is needed here, and I think that is what you're arguing for.19:48
mspreitzIf I try to implement a POST CREATE stack callback by doing it from a resource that depends on all others, the POST CREATE callback will be omitted if any other resource creation fails.  That's bad.19:49
mspreitzSpamapS: Yes, an observer pattern19:49
SpamapSmspreitz: Yes, so I'm suggesting that what is really needed is a notification stream (observer pattern), for the whole stack.19:49
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mspreitzOK, maybe I agreeed too quickly.  I want synchronous involvement, not just notification some time later19:50
SpamapSmspreitz: but are you also suggesting that this callback actually needs to be able to "fail" the stack as well?19:50
mspreitzSpamapS: Yes, I would like the callback to be able to reject the stack operation.19:51
SpamapSOk. It all makes more sense to me now that we've gone through this exercise.19:51
mspreitzI would also like the callback to be able to prepare for later operations before they happen --- e.g., make a joint placement decision before the placed resources are created.19:51
SpamapSWell that is resource callbacks, which I totally got before. ;)19:52
SpamapSand placement... man I know where you're going with the "holistic scheduling looks a lot like a heat stack" thing.. but it is a bit scary for me to expand Heat's scope that far.19:52
mspreitzThat's not exactly it19:53
mspreitzSpamapS: even the placement input is not a Heat template, there are difficulties19:53
mspreitzSee https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88080/ --- it outlines a 4 phase API for Nova ...19:53
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mspreitzDoing that with 4 sets of resources is going to be unnecessarily ugly19:54
mspreitzI'd rather describe each thing once and left a stack lifecycle plugin go back and forth over them19:54
mspreitzs/left/let19:54
SpamapSmspreitz: Forgive me if I lack enthusiasm for all of this optimisation. I'd prefer we make Nova work well enough to be a viable on-premise alternative to AWS before we start aiming it at replacing the s390 series. ;)19:55
mspreitzSpamapS: Well, your enthusiasm is your business19:55
mspreitzBut I hear what you are saying about overall quality and usability19:55
mspreitzI agree there too19:56
mspreitzSpamapS: anyway, thanks for the discussion, I understand better now19:56
SpamapSmspreitz: cool. Thanks for explaining what you're getting at too. I do like the idea of being able to observe and even influence state changes on a stack.19:58
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mspreitzGotta go again20:02
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harlowjasdake_ thx btw for the answers to the y! mail questions (and/or confusion), think we got them resolved, but they do seem very interested in autosccaling (as would be expected, haha)21:12
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openstackgerritDimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions.  https://review.openstack.org/8729321:15
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SpamapSstevebaker: you going to be around today?21:19
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stevebakerSpamapS: I am21:20
stevebakerSpamapS: easter be damned21:20
SpamapSstevebaker: :)21:21
SpamapSstevebaker: so the access policies...21:23
stevebakeryes21:23
SpamapSstevebaker: I didn't think much about it while deployments was being reviewed, but it looks to me like they got lost in the implementation.21:23
openstackgerritJason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/heat: Move API parameter parsing from engine to API  https://review.openstack.org/8844421:26
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stevebakerSpamapS: I don't think so, unless I missed something. talk me through it21:26
SpamapSstevebaker: for the callback issue, I think we can make the built-in callbacks work without requiring a fully loaded stack by saving a list of resources which registered as callbacks and only loading those21:27
SpamapSstevebaker: right, so I can't seem to find where an access policy is created for the signal responder users.21:27
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stevebakerSpamapS: so the policy is "resource:metadata": "",21:28
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stevebakerwhich is meh, anyone!21:28
stevebakermiddleware asserts there credentials are valid and they are associated with a specific project21:29
SpamapSstevebaker: right, so that means my api nodes can fetch the database password21:29
SpamapSand host21:29
stevebakerthen all the relevant sqlalchemy api methods filter by21:30
SpamapSI think it would probably be fairly straight forward to directly tie signal responder users to their resource.21:30
stevebaker            sd.tenant == context.tenant_id,21:30
stevebaker            sd.stack_user_project_id == context.tenant_id21:30
SpamapSstevebaker: Right that is not sufficient.21:30
SpamapSstevebaker: unless I make each and every server live in its own tenant.21:31
stevebakerSpamapS: each stack is in its own tenant. the credentials on the server match to the tenant specified by stack_user_project_id21:32
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SpamapSyou're not hearing me21:32
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SpamapSI need to isolate each server's deployment data from the other servers.21:33
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SpamapSstevebaker: so within a stack, OS::Heat::AccessPolicy allowed me to say "this user, which I create now, can only access the metadata for these resources.21:34
SpamapS"21:34
SpamapSstevebaker: with deployments, the intrinsic user that is fed into the server, can access _all_ of the resources in that stack.21:34
stevebakeryes it could, if it new the nova server id21:35
SpamapSName21:35
SpamapSit just needs the name21:35
SpamapSand even if it is just name, the ids aren't treated as secrets, so entirely possible that will leak21:36
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stevebakerno, I'm not saying they are21:36
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stevebakerit looks like deployments should store and filter by the user UUID too21:36
SpamapSRight since signal_responder creates a user for the resource.. seems like a simple thing to just save that user id in the resource record.21:37
SpamapSanyway...21:38
stevebakeryep. I had assumed that isolated at the stack level would be enough, but resource level would be better21:38
SpamapSstevebaker: it's a regression for us21:38
SpamapSstevebaker: I just assumed the signal responder users were limited to their intended resource.21:38
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stevebakerSpamapS: you know, I think they are if you query via resource-metadata (either cfn or heat-api) but they are not for the underlying deployment api which actually queries the metadata21:41
SpamapSstevebaker: I don't see where they register a callback for access control.. ?21:42
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stevebakerprobably to allow for more complex policies than we actually need21:43
stevebakerSpamapS: calls to register_access_allowed_handler http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/heat/tree/heat/engine/resources/server.py#n38821:47
stevebakerSpamapS: there might be some hinky handlers in the AWS resources21:48
SpamapSstevebaker: oh.. weird21:48
SpamapSstevebaker: ok so my bug is invalid21:48
SpamapSstevebaker: now, the reason I thought that was I was looking at the native API bits to just fetch the deployments.21:49
stevebakernot yet, the stack-load path is still in the way21:50
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SpamapSstevebaker: ok, so let's divide up "optimize resource show" a bit...21:53
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SpamapSstevebaker: you said you're already looking at fetching resource_data all at once. Yes?21:54
stevebakerSpamapS: yes, looking at that now. It should make a huge difference21:59
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SpamapSstevebaker: I wonder if we can also lazy-load resources22:20
SpamapSstevebaker: as in, stack.load would just select the stack record but the resources would only come as-needed22:20
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openstackgerritDimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions.  https://review.openstack.org/8729322:28
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openstackgerritDimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions.  https://review.openstack.org/8729322:29
stevebakerSpamapS: yes, that would be another worthy optimization22:32
stevebakerSpamapS: but what I'm seeing is that doing a stack load does not hit the database for stack and resource records, but it does for resource data22:33
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sdakestevebaker can you ring - i want to get rolling pls :)22:33
stevebakersdake: ok, just a sec22:33
sdaketa22:33
sdakesorry other people depending on me to be somewhere in 30 mins22:34
sdakeotherwise i wouldn't mind so much :)22:34
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zanebthat moment where you find a horrible bug in code you thought you wrote, but it turns out it was someone else :)22:40
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openstackgerritZane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Avoid redundant polling of DB for metadata  https://review.openstack.org/8845722:45
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zanebSpamapS: I'd be interested to hear your results with that ^ patch22:47
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openstackgerritDimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix wrongly printed count of received handled conditions.  https://review.openstack.org/8729322:53
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SpamapSzaneb: _interesting_22:59
SpamapSzaneb: let me fire up my virt fake driver chaos machine :)22:59
zanebyah, I suddenly realised while I was reviewing Dimitri's patch above that that could be a big part of the problem23:00
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sorantismeanwhile, while I was trying to submit my first patch :)23:06
SpamapSzaneb: darn property fetchers making things look so simple23:06
zanebyeah :/23:06
zanebstarting to think those were a mistake23:07
zanebsorantis: welcome :)23:07
stevebakerresource.Metadata needs to die23:08
sorantiszaneb: thanks for the review!23:08
zanebstevebaker: it seemed like such a good idea at the time :D23:09
stevebakeryeah23:11
SpamapSzaneb: sometimes you need to think about the problem from a high level before you can make it actually work down in the bowels23:12
SpamapSI fully expect that things will suck until you actually do try to scale them23:13
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SpamapSlifeless: ^^ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88457 looks promising to improve the situation with heat-engine23:16
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SpamapSlifeless: can you try it on the test rack?23:17
stevebakerSpamapS: I thought you're on software-config now, so now waitconditions?23:17
stevebakerno waitcondtions?23:17
SpamapSstevebaker: hm, the problems were noticed before the software-config patches landed23:18
stevebakerright23:18
SpamapSI don't know if they've been re-tested w/ it23:18
SpamapSI'm trying but I foolishly suspended my vms .. and kvm decided it didn't want to resume them.. so now dealing with dirty FS issues, argh.23:19
stevebakerlooking at the amount of resource_data_get in the software-config paths, my guess would be worse ;)23:19
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SpamapSstevebaker: damnit23:19
SpamapSstevebaker: are we really the first people to try a _40_ node stack? :-/23:20
lifelessSpamapS: its easter here, I'm not really here23:22
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lifelessSpamapS: right now C is sitting in my lap playing ps3, and my 2-factor auth is out of reach23:23
SpamapShah cool23:23
lifelessSpamapS: so I literally cannot23:23
SpamapSlifeless: looks like the situation is likely not better anyway23:23
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SpamapSsince we're not using wait conditions anymore23:23
lifelessyeah, all orm lazy feature == fail23:24
SpamapSlifeless: unfortunately that is wrapped up with "any plugin can ask to be consulted for access"23:24
SpamapSlifeless: so have to unwind that a bit to optimize23:25
lifeless'oops'23:26
lifelessset based apis only thanks23:26
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lifelessthe terrible thing about naive rest is the tendency to potato programming - and it bleeds deep into the api impl23:26
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zaneblifeless: interesting, I hadn't heard that term before23:29
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zanebI wouldn't blame rest here though23:30
zanebthis is just what happens when you set a bunch of C programmers loose in Python ;)23:30
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lifelesszaneb: heh :)23:33
lifelesszaneb: can happen in C too!23:33
zanebtell me about it23:33
zanebtry creating 4096 VLANs in the kernel + hardware, one at a time, and let me know how that goes ;)23:34
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lifelessterribly slow23:35
lifelessneed a _v API23:35
zanebtrick question, you can only have 4095 VLANs23:36
zanebbut yes, that's what we did23:36
zanebdid I mention the 4 layers of message passing in between?23:37
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lifelesszaneb: no; but I can imagine23:59
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lifelesszaneb: openvswitch gre key ids and tunnel config has the same issue w/neutron23:59
lifelesszaneb: *terrible* startup times23:59
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