Wednesday, 2018-06-06

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kazsh_e0ne; thanks for your patch, will check it soon.01:14
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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/heat master: [Test][DMT]Test py36  https://review.openstack.org/57265501:25
openstackgerritKazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/heat-dashboard master: Drop mox3 from TemplateVersionsTests  https://review.openstack.org/56392401:37
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openstackgerritKazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/heat-dashboard master: Drop mox3 from TemplateVersionsTests  https://review.openstack.org/56392401:50
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openstackgerritKazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/heat master: Add Blazar support to Heat  https://review.openstack.org/53457602:07
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openstackgerritKazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/heat-dashboard master: Drop mox3 from TemplateVersionsTests  https://review.openstack.org/56392402:10
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/heat-dashboard master: Drop mox3 from TemplateVersionsTests  https://review.openstack.org/56392402:54
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openstackgerritKazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/heat-dashboard master: Drop mox3 from ResourceTypesTests  https://review.openstack.org/56396303:06
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kazsh_Hi Heat Cores, please re-review my patch for Blazar support, thank you.  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/534576/03:52
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ricolinkazsh_, sure!04:15
kazsh_ricolin: thank you very much !!04:15
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ricolinlooks like queens is broken before https://review.openstack.org/#/c/562455/ landed08:33
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openstackgerritchenge proposed openstack/heat master: Amend the spelling error of a word  https://review.openstack.org/57270408:52
ramishraricolin: yeah, python-novaclient upper constraints have changed for queens:/ https://github.com/openstack/requirements/commit/7e56111ccd0144f2592379d04b355dc0361d3b75#diff-0bdd949ed8a7fdd4f95240bd951779c8 which includes the api removal patch  https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/python-novaclient/commit/?id=01fb16533bf562f39fe822bc12b9cc34b858035908:52
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ramishrawe need to land those patches now08:53
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ricolinramishra, also I have talked with Tony from stable team in Summit about the criteria to been nominate as stable core.09:05
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ricolinThey think as long as we can provide comments shows our review standard even with +1, it's fine if all our review are +1s.09:05
ricolinappears that's what we have to do if we want more stable cores :/09:07
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ramishraricolin: I know.. they need stats and review quality;) We seem to be ok with 2 active stable cores we've atm. If there is any backlog, we should push them to the stable maintenance core team to review:)09:16
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openstackgerritAkihiro Motoki proposed openstack/heat-dashboard master: Django 2.0 support  https://review.openstack.org/56759111:47
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zanebramishra: we don't have 2 active stable cores, and we are not OK. we need more stable cores13:16
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ramishrazaneb: Did I count it wrong?:) you and shardy managing the stable reviews so far. As it is, We don't have enough reviewers for master:)13:19
zanebSteve has been helping with stuff when I ping him for urgent stuff, but we should have people who are active cores that can review stuff as it comes in13:21
zanebI agree we also need more cores on master, but at least we can land stuff on master13:21
ricolinzaneb, how about that idea to propose allow core to approve patch when it's proposed by another core13:23
ricolinI like that idea:)13:23
zanebricolin: for master? yeah, I think it's time to do that. we should discuss it in the meeting13:23
ricolinzaneb, sure, is it something we need to propose in TC policy or we can just do it if team agree on?13:25
zanebwe can just do it13:25
zanebI believe13:25
ramishrazaneb: the guidelines/practice vs reality in projects is completely different, may be we need to help the stable maint cores to understand that13:25
ramishraso that we have more flexibility in adding a few stable cores, IMHO13:26
zanebramishra: the stable maint guidelines have recently changed13:26
zanebalso, I don't think the problem has ever been that we weren't following the guidelines. the problem has been that there's no non-cores doing regular reviews that we can propose to the stable-maint team to be added as cores13:27
zanebramishra: https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html "All bugfixes are appropriate"13:28
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zanebso literally all you have to do is leave a bunch of comments that say "+1 this is a bugfix and therefore appropriate for backport"13:29
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ramishrazaneb: So if it's so basic, I don't know why stats matter, the existing project cores can be expected to follow that;) but anyway..13:32
zanebthat is a recent change, so it may be worth asking that question13:33
therveWe should just remove ourselves from the stable tag13:34
zanebtherve: I don't think that sends the right message to our users13:34
thervezaneb: Does it send a message at all?13:35
therveIt's a just a line in a doc somewhere13:35
zanebspecifically this doc https://www.openstack.org/software/releases/queens/components/heat13:36
therveYeah13:38
therveIt doesn't even show up if you don't follow it :)13:38
zanebI was gonna say it affects the maturity score, but those seem to have disappeared13:39
ricolinI think the `is maintained following the common Stable branch policy` will be No if we don't follow:/13:39
thervericolin: No it's just not there13:40
thervehttps://www.openstack.org/software/releases/queens/components/mistral eg13:40
ricolintherve, I'm actually surprise mistral didn't marked as stable13:42
ricolinthey did that in purpose?13:42
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ricolin#startmeeting heat14:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun  6 14:00:17 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ricolin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'14:00
ricolin#topic roll call14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: heat)"14:00
zanebo/14:00
ricolino/14:00
kazsh_o/14:00
ricolinkazsh_, sorry didn't review your patch yet, but will do it right after meeting!14:01
kazsh_ricolin: no worries, mate & thanks!14:01
ricolinramishra, therve ?14:02
ramishrahi14:02
ricolin#topic adding items to agenda14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"14:03
ricolin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282018-06-06_1400_UTC.2914:03
ricolin#topic Vancouver Summit14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver Summit (Meeting topic: heat)"14:04
ricolin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-June/131221.html14:04
ricolinI send a ML for video and slide link from summit sessions14:05
ricolinalso the user feedback etherpad14:05
ricolinWe seems got a lot of require by users14:05
ricolinat least every user I ask are using heat in some interesting way:)14:06
ricolinramishra, there was user asking about swift backend for heat template:)14:07
ricolinAlso some requirement for multi cloud and improve our ASG14:08
ricolinanyway that's what I got from Summit14:08
ricolin#topic Review policy for Heat cores14:08
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ricolinzaneb proposed to change our review policy with allow a core to directly approve patch when it's proposed by another core.14:09
ricolinAny idea on that?14:10
zanebwith only 4 active cores, who are also doing most of the development, 75% of us have to be involved to get a patch in at the moment14:11
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zanebthat seems like too high a bar to get anything done14:11
therveI'd say, on all patches then14:12
ricolinramishra, what you think14:13
ramishra+1, unless the patch is too complex14:14
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ricolin+1 from me too14:14
ramishraI mean more eyes is always good, but we've limitations:)14:14
zanebramishra: yeah, it's never compulsory to approve a patch after you've +2d (even if there is already a +2). you can always wait for more feedback if you think it's warranted14:15
ramishrazaneb: yep14:15
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zanebtherve: by 'all patches' do you mean including patches from non-cores?14:15
thervezaneb: Yeah14:16
zanebtherve: that feels like a bigger step. this is just saying 'we assume you reviewed your own patch before submitting it/clearing Workflow-1"14:17
ramishraI mean if the core feels like approving with only him/her reviewing, it should be fine, no?14:17
zaneblet's try this out first rather than jump straight to 'only 1 +2 required to merge'14:18
therveok14:18
zanebunless it's trivial of course. we already approve trivial patches with a single +2 (at least I do)14:18
ricolinI think trivial patch not limited:)14:19
ricolinWonder if we can also apply this new policy to our stable branch review?14:19
ramishraI think we should approve stable patches with only one stable core revewing as an agreed policy from now on14:20
ricolinramishra, yeah14:21
ramishraunless stable maint team makes noise about it;)14:21
ricolinI remember stable-maintain-cores once mention they willing to direct provide +2 if any of our stable core +2ed, which sounds like what allow directly a single core policy:)14:21
zanebramishra: and by 'we' you mean me, right? ;)14:21
ricolinzaneb, yes!14:21
ramishrazaneb: exactly:)14:21
ricolinzaneb, that obvious?14:22
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zanebI'm happy to do that (and often end up doing that anyway)14:22
zanebthere's still a problem for stable backports that I submit14:22
zanebsomebody needs to review those14:22
therveYeah just stop doing that :)14:23
zanebso I would appreciate it if y'all could do +1s on stable reviews so that I can nominate more people for stable core14:23
zanebtherve: stop doing backports myself?14:23
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therveYeah14:24
ricolinzaneb, will try to keep that in mind14:24
zanebtherve: if you're volunteering, I'm fine with that ;)14:24
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ricolinsince all agree, I assume we can close this topic now14:25
ramishrazaneb: yeah we can manage that, it's not that difficult to handle with gerrit UI support for backports unless there are conflicts14:26
zanebricolin: should we put some #agreed things in the minutes?14:26
ricolinzaneb, right14:26
ricolin#agreed team aggree to allow core reviewer to directly approved on patches what was proposed by another core14:27
ricolin#agreed in stable branch, single stable core can directly approve patches14:28
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ricolintherve, ramishra zaneb sounds right? ^^^14:28
zanebyep14:28
ricolinBTW zaneb queens gate is broken and need this backport  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56245514:29
ricolin :)14:29
ricolintwo patches actually:)14:29
zanebI just +2d them earlier, but I guess I can approve now :)14:29
zanebI suspect those patches will need to be squashed together to pass the gate now though14:29
ricolinzaneb, cheers for the sudo power:)14:30
ricolinMove on14:30
zanebapparently I am not allowed to do that myself, so...14:30
ricolinhaha14:30
ricolin#topic Credential in Multi-Cloud14:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Credential in Multi-Cloud (Meeting topic: heat)"14:30
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ricolinAs we plan to work on multi-cloud in this release, would like to collect idea on what we should deal with credential. I working on using clouds.yaml to record provider information for other clouds https://docs.openstack.org/os-client-config/latest/user/configuration.html  .14:31
ricolinOps input cloud provider name and barbican id(from remote side).14:32
ricolinPregenerate clouds.yaml file with cloud auth info. Use that auth to talk to another cloud (in future it can be a application credential with only limited to access to heat stack operations).14:32
ricolinRemote Heat receive API to create Stack, and use that stored barbican credential to refresh context with actual user credential14:32
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ricolinTry to working on spec and POC right now, would like to learn if that sound like the right track or not14:33
ricolinzaneb, ideas?14:33
zanebs/actual user credential/token/14:34
zanebbut yes, that sounds correct14:34
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ricolincool14:36
zanebideally we should support any sort of credential (password, application credential, &c.) that a user can use with the SDK and clouds.yaml/secrets.yaml14:36
zanebwe use that to grab a token from the remote cloud's auth_url, and we go from there14:36
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ricolinwhen you mean by grab a token, you mean as a heat service to greb a token to access to another heat service right?14:38
ricolinzaneb, try to figure out if I can do better in protect any credential14:38
zanebthat's what we're getting a token for, yes. at the time we're getting the token, we just get it from keystone, it doesn't know what we're going to use it for14:39
ricolinzaneb, yeah, and once Application credential allow only access to single API, we can try to use that instead acquire a token with full power14:41
zanebricolin: we don't have to do anything. the *user* can give us a locked down credential14:41
ricolinfair enough, just have to make sure os client config allow taht credential, everything should be the same14:43
zanebas long as we allow app creds in general, then we can't tell the difference14:43
ricolinzaneb, true14:44
ricolinwill try to working on more detail and keep you all sync!14:45
openstackgerritHarald Jensås proposed openstack/heat master: Allow updating the segment property of OS::Neutron::Subnet  https://review.openstack.org/56720614:45
ricolinokay, let's move on14:46
ricolindidn't put this is agenda, but I think maybe we can talk about long term support?14:46
ricolinI mean Extended Maintenance14:46
ricolin#topic Open discussion14:47
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ricolinDo we have anything to discuss about that?14:47
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zanebI can give an update about Extended Maintenance if you want?14:47
ricolinzaneb, sure14:48
zanebbasically this is the new policy: https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html14:48
zanebso stable branches are open for all bugfixes for 18 months14:48
zanebthey remain open after that as long as someone is maintaining them14:49
zaneb(gate is not broken, patches still get reviewed)14:49
zanebif they've been unmaintained for 6 months we'll call them EOL14:49
zanebbut iirc we're no longer going to delete the branch and replace it with a -eol tag14:49
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zaneboh, also no releases after the first 18 months14:50
zanebso downstreams can co-operate on backporting patches, but they'll have to grab them from git not a tarball14:51
ricolinzaneb, yeah, old branch will all keep in repo now14:51
zaneb(from my perspective, this is what we do in RDO anyway so that wfm)14:51
zanebany questions?14:51
* ricolin raise hand!14:51
zaneboh no14:52
ricolinis this actually working well? I mean you mention RDO doing it14:52
zanebimporting patches from git?14:52
ricolinyes14:53
ricolinfor old version14:53
ricolinI mean version > 2years14:53
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zanebwe have lots of tooling to make it easy, so yeah. for us it works well. we just rebase on the latest git master instead of the tarball14:53
zanebtbh ocata is the first branch that is following this, so we don't have any data on that yet14:54
ramishraIs releasing such an overhead? there could have been independent releases if the project teams wants14:54
zanebbut the old way was after the branch was closed, we had to do backports downstream, and so did all the other distros14:54
ricolinI assume you guys will have to do it for Pike eventually14:55
zanebso the new way is better because everyone can continue to collaborate on backports even after 18 months14:55
zanebramishra: I don't think it's about overhead so much as not creating expectations that a series is still supported by upstream, including VMT &c.14:56
ricolinzaneb, we only allow security backport for Old branch, so did that also apply to extended?14:56
zanebextended maintenance is a sandbox for distros to share work14:57
ramishrazaneb: OK, makes sense14:57
zanebricolin: no: "All bugfixes (that meet the criteria described below) are appropriate. No Releases produced, reduced CI commitment."14:57
ricolinright! that rule is changed even for all maintained branch14:58
zanebcorrect, it's changed for the entire lifetime of the branch14:58
ricolinlet's wait for our first requirement come:)14:59
zanebactually that doc says at EOL we still delete the branch and tag, so I may have misremembered that bit, or it may just not have been updated since the Forum15:00
zanebon another topic15:00
ricolinI think only if branch stay in Unmaintained for so long15:00
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zanebricolin: yes. that will eventually happen to all branches though15:01
zanebI posted this yesterday: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-June/131183.html15:01
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zanebricolin: we discussed this ^ in the hallways at summit15:01
ricolinzaneb, oh! that cool stuff!15:02
zaneblooking for volunteers15:02
* zaneb stares at therve15:02
therveHi15:02
zanebthat is all.15:03
ricolinLet's keep that part up to dated!15:03
ricolinwe're running out of time15:04
ricolinThanks all for join15:04
ricolin#endmeeting15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Heat Team (logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23heat/)"15:04
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun  6 15:04:53 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:04
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2018/heat.2018-06-06-14.00.html15:04
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2018/heat.2018-06-06-14.00.txt15:04
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2018/heat.2018-06-06-14.00.log.html15:04
ramishrazaneb: I read this article just before your mail https://www.forbes.com/sites/janakirammsv/2018/04/29/kubernetes-and-the-open-service-broker-make-multi-cloud-a-reality/#d909aaa1295c15:05
zanebgood timing :)15:07
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ricolind'oh!15:35
ricolinramishra, zaneb therve btw we gonna release rocky-2 this week15:36
ricolinkazsh_, ^^^15:36
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openstackgerritHarald Jensås proposed openstack/heat master: OS::Nova::Server: Extend addresses attr to include subnets  https://review.openstack.org/56896016:24
openstackgerritHarald Jensås proposed openstack/heat master: OS::Nova::Server: Extend addresses attr to include network  https://review.openstack.org/56896116:24
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/heat master: fix tox python3 overrides  https://review.openstack.org/57295920:07
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