| *** elvira1 is now known as elvira | 13:00 | |
| spotz | Meeting here in 25 | 13:36 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | yep | 13:38 |
| TheJulia | I guess Amy's computer said "more coffee please" | 14:00 |
| fungi | i have my laptop in the kitchen while putting the kettle on | 14:00 |
| TheJulia | I just messaged Amy on gchat | 14:01 |
| spotz | Sorry had to run Hippie out | 14:02 |
| TheJulia | :) | 14:03 |
| spotz | #startmeeting diversity-wg | 14:03 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Mar 14 14:03:04 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 14:03 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 14:03 |
| aprice[m] | o/ | 14:03 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 14:03 |
| fungi | ahoy | 14:03 |
| spotz | #chair fungi TheJulia aprice[m] | 14:03 |
| opendevmeet | Current chairs: TheJulia aprice[m] fungi spotz | 14:03 |
| * TheJulia blinks | 14:03 | |
| TheJulia | :) | 14:03 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 14:04 |
| spotz | Agenda for anyone who needs it. | 14:04 |
| spotz | #topic Summit | 14:04 |
| spotz | I figured Summit would be relatively fast so thought we'd start with that | 14:04 |
| spotz | Congrats for summit being the first certified Public health badge recipient | 14:05 |
| * fungi cheers | 14:05 | |
| spotz | aprice[m]: you mentioned the CHAOSS badge has been applied for? I know they won't assign it to me:) | 14:05 |
| aprice[m] | it has! I saw a few comments on GitHub last week but hadnt had a chance to answer them because i was at SCaLE. i will get to those today | 14:06 |
| spotz | No worries:) | 14:06 |
| spotz | We have the Diversity Lunch sponsored by Bloomberg and the Speed Mentoring breakfast will be sponsored by Red Hat. I normally do the Speed Mentoring and we'll need to get the RSVPs attached once it goes on the schedule. Does Bloomberg need anything from this group that we know of? | 14:08 |
| fungi | many thanks to bloomberg and red hat for their support! | 14:08 |
| aprice[m] | spotz: not that i know of re: bloomberg support, but we have a meeting set up with them next week | 14:08 |
| spotz | Ok let them know we're available to help with anything | 14:09 |
| spotz | Is there anything else Summit wise we need to discuss at this point? We're closer then we think but it's still a few months off | 14:10 |
| TheJulia | one question | 14:11 |
| spotz | Go for it | 14:11 |
| TheJulia | The agenda notes a proximity indicator, Are many conferences doing that these days? | 14:12 |
| *** elvira1 is now known as elvira | 14:13 | |
| TheJulia | from a comfort level standpoint, I think it makes sense, but being at SCaLE this past weekend, I didn't see many yellow or red wrist bands, and even green ones disappeared and didn't seem that visible. Maybe it is just the nature of wrist bands? dunno. | 14:13 |
| aprice[m] | yeah, i was forced to wear a yellow one due to lack of green :) | 14:14 |
| spotz | Linux Foundation events have them I know for sure. They're the only ones besides us and FOSDEM that I've been to. I normally put mine on my lanyard so it's pretty visible. FOSDEM had nothing | 14:14 |
| spotz | If we don't date them my suggestion would be to get 75 or 100% of attendees in each color | 14:16 |
| TheJulia | I guess cost per unit will be the driving factor in which path we go then | 14:16 |
| spotz | That way we could use them in the future if needed. | 14:16 |
| spotz | Like show ribbons, if they're not dated clubs use them up over time | 14:16 |
| TheJulia | It might be okay to run out, I think the inherent nature of a conference means people will be more willing to be in the yellow to green spectrum | 14:17 |
| TheJulia | I'm just thinking outloud, we can move on from my point of view | 14:17 |
| fungi | if cost is a concern, it could be as inexpensive as a few spools of colored 1/4" or 10mm ribbon cut into long enough pieces to tie to something and remain visible | 14:18 |
| spotz | Custom wrist bands are a penny in a quick google search | 14:20 |
| spotz | THere may be limits but that's not even $100 probably | 14:20 |
| TheJulia | Even non-custom then, the is likely a ton of inventory out there | 14:21 |
| spotz | Yeah | 14:21 |
| aprice[m] | i have looked at some initial pricing and I think it's something we can do | 14:22 |
| spotz | Great | 14:22 |
| TheJulia | cool | 14:23 |
| spotz | Anything else on Summit? | 14:23 |
| aprice[m] | pronoun stickers are also in the works. can this group provide the full list of pronouns? | 14:23 |
| aprice[m] | we will also have blanks for folks to write their own pronouns in | 14:24 |
| spotz | Yeah we can get those for you | 14:24 |
| spotz | Perfect | 14:24 |
| aprice[m] | thank you! | 14:24 |
| spotz | I thin we've in the past had the he/she/they combos so blanks would fill in anything we might miss | 14:24 |
| aprice[m] | ok that works | 14:25 |
| aprice[m] | it's another thing that i basically have in my cart online | 14:25 |
| spotz | We'll see if there's any we missed from the combos though | 14:25 |
| spotz | Ok anything else for Summit before we move to the CoC? | 14:25 |
| aprice[m] | that was it from me | 14:26 |
| spotz | We'll probably have to punt the Survey to vPTG and I'll get us maybe 2 sessions, one for CoC and one for Survey | 14:26 |
| spotz | #topic Code of Conduct | 14:27 |
| spotz | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jhORItpdLXbciCXTyZPRiqM44NDtw5fe4l17io7XXq4/edit?usp=sharing | 14:27 |
| spotz | That is the link to the working doc which we can track changes | 14:27 |
| TheJulia | I've made a couple direct suggestions, and I've started leaving a few comments | 14:28 |
| spotz | #link https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct | 14:28 |
| spotz | Our current CoC | 14:28 |
| spotz | Julia reading through your comments it seems like you're in favor of keeping a more prose type of CoC? Does anyone feel like we need a more bullet list one similar to Fedora and CentOS - https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ | 14:30 |
| TheJulia | I think any dramatic change might raise a ton of eyebrows | 14:30 |
| TheJulia | maybe that is a good thing, dunno | 14:31 |
| spotz | One thing about the bullet list is the points are more visible, I think we cover a lot of the same things though | 14:31 |
| TheJulia | I do like their direct and to the point nature, I could mentally go either way | 14:31 |
| spotz | And we do have the bullet list under be careful with your words and actions | 14:31 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, even just sifting through the existing text, it is a lot. Maybe a "summary", dunno | 14:31 |
| TheJulia | maybe the negative first, and then the positive of our existing text? | 14:33 |
| TheJulia | "Don't do this, here is what we strive for" | 14:33 |
| spotz | I would flip it, this is what we strive for so don't do this | 14:34 |
| aprice[m] | yeah, id start with the positive to reinforce what our expectations are | 14:34 |
| TheJulia | so existing form of the text? | 14:34 |
| fungi | main concern with a list of things not to do is that some bad actors will take it as an exhaustive list so they can argue that their actions aren't forbidden by the coc, but i suppose that's possible no matter how we word it | 14:34 |
| aprice[m] | sorry - splitting between two meetings so catching up | 14:34 |
| TheJulia | fungi: that is a thought which is rolling around in my mind as well | 14:35 |
| spotz | I think we address tht currently with - This includes but is not limited to: | 14:35 |
| TheJulia | I think the prose *does* help with that since there is much more of an expression of intent and our values | 14:35 |
| * TheJulia sees the highlighted text | 14:36 | |
| spotz | We can't possibly come up with everything and I think any attempt to do it would be very depressing | 14:37 |
| TheJulia | I think, to the core point, it makes sense to explicitly add to the negative behaviors | 14:37 |
| aprice[m] | one thing that I also wonder and that I dont think is explicitly called out. | 14:37 |
| aprice[m] | I think most folks think of CoC as event policies, not ongoing policies around online behavior as well. | 14:37 |
| aprice[m] | is that worth calling out more directly? | 14:38 |
| TheJulia | aprice[m]: I was looking through and I think the 4th paragraph causes things to get framed into event policy fairly quickly | 14:38 |
| TheJulia | aprice[m]: so some wording updates to that paragraph and I think that might help? | 14:39 |
| spotz | We do have a separate CoC for events or did that get folded in? | 14:40 |
| fungi | well, also we have separate community and event coc documents, maybe we need to make their purpose clearer | 14:40 |
| TheJulia | If your skimming it in a heat of the moment, the third paragraph just doesn't feel like it really sinks in applicablity wise | 14:40 |
| fungi | yeah, it does make reference to the separate event-specific coc in that parahraph | 14:41 |
| aprice[m] | spotz: we do have a separate one, but i think it's just a general perception around CoC in general | 14:41 |
| fungi | hopefully that perception is changing, since lots of online communities who don't put on events have a coc | 14:41 |
| spotz | Shouldn't all sponsored events fall under the events CoC? If so moving that mention in the first line there might help? | 14:42 |
| TheJulia | Maybe the issue is we're just overloading people with information? | 14:43 |
| spotz | I think it's a lot there to read through vs being able to just skim | 14:44 |
| fungi | well, the old-old original coc definitely didn't overload people with information, the additional text was added because "be excellent to each other" was insufficient guidance | 14:44 |
| spotz | hehe | 14:45 |
| fungi | i agree there's ptobably a careful balance to strike between too much and too little | 14:45 |
| fungi | s/ptobably/probably/ | 14:45 |
| TheJulia | I concur | 14:46 |
| * TheJulia adds a comment to the doc | 14:46 | |
| spotz | So maybe start with more bulletted summary and then have the wordier one under? | 14:46 |
| TheJulia | a tl;dr and then a full body? | 14:47 |
| spotz | yeah | 14:47 |
| aprice[m] | yeah i like that | 14:48 |
| TheJulia | Maybe something like what I've suggested? | 14:49 |
| spotz | My one concern would be we'd have 1, 1a, b, 1c, etc so it'd still be a bit long but I can't think of. way around that | 14:50 |
| spotz | I can't type today but y'all are used to reading my typos:) | 14:50 |
| TheJulia | Maybe the tl;dr is as simple as kind of going back to the "be execellent to each other" "listen, collaborate, and treat everyone the same" and | 14:52 |
| * TheJulia is still trying to work on a condensed bullet | 14:52 | |
| TheJulia | "Inappropriate or toxic behavior is not permitted, see below for examples." | 14:53 |
| spotz | See below for a more complete but not exhaustive list? | 14:54 |
| TheJulia | that works | 14:54 |
| aprice[m] | and i wonder if we should say in the reporting part "if there is something concerning that is not included in this CoC, please reach out anyways" | 14:54 |
| aprice[m] | so it reinforces that things can be reported and investigated if someone is uncomfortable | 14:55 |
| TheJulia | perhaps "Do read onward to learn more about the values we strive for. If you have something concerning which is not explicitly covered, reach out." ? | 14:55 |
| spotz | +1 | 14:55 |
| fungi | sgtm | 14:55 |
| spotz | +1 was for Allison. Reading Julia now | 14:55 |
| * TheJulia groked it that way :) | 14:55 | |
| spotz | Ahh a wording option:) Yey | 14:56 |
| TheJulia | 4 minutes | 14:56 |
| TheJulia | should we just draw up some suggestions in the current doc? | 14:57 |
| spotz | Yeah and does anyone have a preference for a day and time for the vPTG to continue? Maybe we should try for either 2 hours together or 2 sessions for this | 14:58 |
| TheJulia | I think Wednesday is going to be very busy for me and I don't have awareness yet of any cross-community items | 14:59 |
| spotz | I usually gor for Monday or Tuesday morning | 14:59 |
| spotz | CoC has taken presidence over the survey right now but I'll make one session for that and hope the other projects show | 15:00 |
| fungi | mainly i'll want it to not overlap with tc sessions. also i'll make sure to not schedule the security sig time when d&i is going | 15:00 |
| spotz | Yeah that's my main conflict fungi so I schedule around them | 15:00 |
| TheJulia | I think the survey is important too though | 15:00 |
| TheJulia | When are we meeting next? | 15:00 |
| spotz | It is, but without the other projects it's just an OpenStack oriented one | 15:01 |
| fungi | second tuesday of april will be the 11th | 15:01 |
| spotz | We've been meeting monthly | 15:01 |
| fungi | day after easter monday | 15:01 |
| fungi | i'll be on vacation that week, but don't let that stop anyone from meeting | 15:01 |
| spotz | vPTG would be the next time we meet before our normal meeting | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | I'd like to try and get a revised CoC in front of the board by May, if at all possible | 15:02 |
| fungi | yep | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | Which I think means we will need to collaborate async, but it sounds like we've kind of got a good consensus already | 15:02 |
| spotz | I'll grab 2 hours for this at vPTG, then we'd have the regular meeting if needed | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | aside from maybe some more minor wording items | 15:02 |
| spotz | Yeah and then I think it needs to go to legal? | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | legal and then board approval | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | we would likely sync with legal while maybe floating to the board | 15:04 |
| spotz | And we're past time so keep working async, we'll hopefully finish it a vPTG so it can go to legal before the board meeting | 15:04 |
| TheJulia | ++ | 15:04 |
| TheJulia | Thanks everyone! | 15:04 |
| fungi | thanks! | 15:04 |
| spotz | Thanks all! Great work on this! | 15:04 |
| spotz | #endmeeting | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Mar 14 15:04:53 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-03-14-14.03.html | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-03-14-14.03.txt | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-03-14-14.03.log.html | 15:04 |
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