| *** diablo_rojo is now known as Guest924 | 09:16 | |
| fungi | ahoy! | 14:01 |
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| spotz_ | #startmeeting diversity_wg | 14:01 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue May 9 14:01:38 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 14:01 |
| spotz_ | #topic Roll Call | 14:01 |
| spotz_ | #chair fungi | 14:01 |
| opendevmeet | Current chairs: fungi spotz_ | 14:01 |
| spotz_ | We'll give people a few minutes but here's the agenda link | 14:02 |
| spotz_ | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 14:03 |
| spotz_ | #topic Diversity Survey Questions | 14:05 |
| spotz_ | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13m2lIvaxPdboGJtFoqsYAVgULAb3eBfskZydrO2QD7M/edit#gid=0 | 14:06 |
| spotz_ | We definitely need to change OpenStack to OpenInfra everywhere? Is it ok to use OpenInfra or do we need to write it out? | 14:07 |
| fungi | unless it's something very official, "OpenInfra" is preferable | 14:07 |
| spotz_ | Perfect | 14:07 |
| fungi | it's slightly more brand-recognizable than the foundation name written out in full | 14:08 |
| spotz_ | Do we want it as the OpenInfra COmmunity or your OpenInfra Community? | 14:09 |
| spotz_ | We also need to add the questions for what project are you a member of, etc | 14:11 |
| fungi | i think we previously agreed that "your" was a way to personalize their involvement and to make it clear that openinfra represents multiple communities (for which the respondent may participate in more than one) | 14:11 |
| fungi | can't remember if that was in the coc refresh discussion or for the survey that we hashed that out already | 14:12 |
| spotz_ | No it definitely reads better as your openinfra community. I changed the first few questions. I added a blank line for where we need to ask what community. I know at the last PTG we had some good ideas for that but can't remember the wording | 14:13 |
| fungi | we didn't put it in the ptg etherpad | 14:14 |
| spotz_ | grr | 14:14 |
| fungi | maybe it's in https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-survey-2023 | 14:17 |
| spotz_ | Ok I'll look through there. I can't seem to do the cells like aprice did but added the what community question | 14:18 |
| spotz_ | found it! | 14:19 |
| fungi | ;) | 14:19 |
| spotz_ | Well cell merging:) | 14:21 |
| spotz_ | Ok all the OpenStacks are replaced with your OpenInfra. So now we have rewording to do? | 14:22 |
| fungi | the rewording is what we identified in the diversity-survey-2023 pad i guess? | 14:24 |
| spotz_ | Yeah just changed #1 to what was in the pad. I think I'll leave the project names in alpha order to not offend anyone | 14:24 |
| spotz_ | 23 needs a reword | 14:25 |
| fungi | i think formstack may randomize the options anyway | 14:26 |
| fungi | or that may be configurable | 14:26 |
| spotz_ | The no, few, etc won't make sense randomized | 14:26 |
| fungi | i know it came up when moving the zuul user survey because the answers had been written originally in a way that needed them to remain sequential to make sense | 14:26 |
| fungi | i can ask helena | 14:27 |
| fungi | anyway, let's proceed under the assumption there's a solution to that | 14:29 |
| spotz_ | Can you read #23 I tried to add your comments from the etherpad | 14:29 |
| fungi | by #23 you mean row 23 in the spreadsheet or question 23 from the pad? | 14:30 |
| spotz_ | spreadsheet sorry | 14:30 |
| fungi | i'm good with what you have there. maybe someone else will have suggestions for improved wording later | 14:32 |
| fungi | i can't really come up with anything better | 14:33 |
| spotz_ | lines 67 and 70 updated in spreadsheet | 14:35 |
| spotz_ | spreadsheet 88 shoarts with under 18, we thought about under 15. We do need to change 19-24 to 18-24 | 14:36 |
| fungi | one thing that i always wonder about surveys that analyze "age groups" is why the options aren't of equivalent spans of time. reports like "the majority of occurrences were for people age 17-65, with fewer occurrences in people age 65-71" (well duh, how do you even begin to call those comparable?) | 14:40 |
| fungi | that's an exaggeration of course, but when the analysis states that the largest age group also had a majority of something, it seems plain silly | 14:40 |
| fungi | most of ours are decades i guess, with higher resolution in the first few questions | 14:41 |
| fungi | i suppose we could do under 20, 20-29, ... | 14:41 |
| fungi | is there a reason we didn't? | 14:42 |
| fungi | i have a feeling the under 20 count would already be very small based on what i know about our existing contributor base (even the interns are usually in their last year or two of a 4-year university program) | 14:43 |
| spotz_ | I think under 18 is to find out how many minors? | 14:43 |
| fungi | minors according to what culture/jurisdiction? | 14:43 |
| spotz_ | Good point | 14:43 |
| fungi | seems like another western assumption | 14:44 |
| spotz_ | It varies some even by state. So do we want an under 15, and then groups of 5 or 10? | 14:44 |
| fungi | do we care to subdivide that much? we could just do 20-year spans even | 14:45 |
| fungi | under 20, 20-39, 40-59, 60-79, 80+ | 14:45 |
| fungi | or are we trying to increase involvement for people under 15? (or under 18?) in ways that the survey results will help us address? | 14:46 |
| spotz_ | I hate losing data lets do 10, how's that? | 14:46 |
| spotz_ | I think it's more to make sure we are not having CoC issues with minors | 14:47 |
| spotz_ | Ok let me know about the age changes | 14:48 |
| fungi | looks fine to me. and yeah if we have coc concerns raised by respondents who state they're under 20, we can assume they may be a minor in their relevant jurisdiction | 14:49 |
| fungi | if we really want to know whether they're minors we could explicitly ask them, but that term is itself poorly-defined (even ignoring the difference in ages of consent for various things in different places) | 14:49 |
| spotz_ | Ok I updated the English ones, 106 is also in the etherpad but a bit different? | 14:50 |
| fungi | "Has the standardization on English language for communication in your Open infrastructure community been a barrier to your ability to participate?" is what we came up with in the pad | 14:51 |
| fungi | because specifically we wanted to know what (if any) negative impact it had, not affects in general | 14:52 |
| spotz_ | Ok let me swap that in, etherpad 95 is not in the spreadsheet | 14:52 |
| fungi | er, i meant not *e*ffects in general (my fingers betray my grasp of english grammar too) | 14:54 |
| spotz_ | Do we want to track don that one to get the responses or leave it out? If we're leaving out we might be done! | 14:54 |
| fungi | that one looks like it had multiple choices not quoted in the pad | 14:55 |
| fungi | since it says "Please select all that apply..." | 14:56 |
| fungi | do you have the original handy? | 14:56 |
| spotz_ | Yeah, let me look | 14:56 |
| fungi | "What obstacles do you feel limit, or have limited your successful participation in open source?" would be a pretty terrible open-ended prompt since it doesn't limit responses to diversity-relevant aspects of participation | 14:57 |
| fungi | so answers would be all over the place, and we already have the last question where people can vent freeform anyway | 14:57 |
| spotz_ | I'm in their github but not finding it | 14:59 |
| fungi | i think we cover most of the possibilities earlier in the survey anyway, so probably fine to skip as i expect it would be mostly redundant | 14:59 |
| spotz_ | Ok we'll skip but for future refernce | 14:59 |
| spotz_ | #link https://github.com/mozilla/inclusion | 14:59 |
| spotz_ | Ok so I think we are done with the survey and can return it to Allison to be put into a Formstack and we can release before or at Summit! | 15:01 |
| fungi | sounds great, thanks for all your hard work on that! | 15:01 |
| fungi | perfect use for a meeting, and we got done in the hour allotted | 15:02 |
| spotz_ | Thank you, we'll have I think a meeting before Summit. So we can discuss any last minute things or just bring them up on channel! | 15:02 |
| spotz_ | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue May 9 15:02:25 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-05-09-14.01.html | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-05-09-14.01.txt | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2023/diversity_wg.2023-05-09-14.01.log.html | 15:02 |
| fungi | spotz_: i got confirmation that choice randomization is configurable per question in formstack, so should be able to randomize the ones we want and leave others in a fixed order | 15:29 |
| spotz_ | fungi perfect | 15:30 |
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