Friday, 2019-09-13

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mnasero/ cloudnull13:33
mnaserare you able to kinda run todays 'first' meeting? i know its a bit last minute but something has really come up at the same time13:34
mnaserjust to kinda pretty much discuss the "What are going to do together" and put that in an etherpad somewhere, i can probably check in but only over mobile13:34
cloudnullI'll do my best.13:35
cloudnullI don't have anything planned at this time, however,  I'll do what I can13:36
mnaseri'll setup a basic etherpad and all the other stuff now13:36
cloudnulldo you have anything you wanted to talk about in meeting 1 other than "What are going to do together" ?13:36
mnasercloudnull: also if there is any deliverables that we can move into the sig (maybe os_tempest? maybe connection driver?)13:37
mnasercloudnull: i added it to the bottom there13:38
cloudnullwhat do we want to call the meeting ?13:39
cloudnullfor the meetbot ?13:40
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cloudnullo/ all14:03
cloudnullsorry starting a little late.14:03
cloudnull#startmeeting ansible-sig14:03
openstackMeeting started Fri Sep 13 14:03:12 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cloudnull. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ansible-sig)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ansible_sig'14:03
cloudnullwelcome to the first ansible-sig meeting14:03
cloudnullhow's everyone doing on this fine friday ?14:03
-cloudnull- meeting time14:03
mgoddardI'm good thanks cloudnull.14:04
cloudnullsounds like folks need a ping :D14:04
mgoddardyeah, especially given I'm not really an active member right now, just curious :)14:05
cloudnulldmellado dmsimard EvilienM evrardjp guilhermesp gundalow jrosser logan- mwhahaha noonedeadpunk odyssey4me owalsh redrobot sshnaidm|off tiffanie yoctozepto zbr - ping14:05
mwhahahafun with meetings14:06
cloudnullfun with meetings indeed :D14:06
* owalsh lurking14:06
* cloudnull master of the out of band ping 14:06
* EvilienM hides14:06
noonedeadpunkthese firday evening meetings:)14:06
cloudnullso mnaser has a last minute conflict, so your stuck with me.14:07
cloudnullsorry in advance14:07
evrardjpit's been ages I haven't you lead a meeting, can you still do it?14:07
evrardjpI haven't seen you lead*14:07
cloudnullevrardjp it'll be touch and go14:08
cloudnullbut i'll fake it till i make it14:08
cloudnullso now that we're all here, we wanted to cover:14:08
cloudnull#topic What are going to do together14:08
*** openstack changes topic to "What are going to do together (Meeting topic: ansible-sig)"14:08
evrardjpI am pretty sure it's like bicycle14:08
* evrardjp go backs into lurking mode14:08
cloudnullso anyway. I think there are a lot of things we can all work on, spanning roles, modules, plugins, etc14:09
evrardjpanyway, your goals?14:09
cloudnullevrardjp one day, when I grow up14:09
cloudnullI also think there are patterns we can collaborate on14:10
cloudnulleven if we end up using different roles, or plugins.14:10
evrardjpcloudnull: do you have something in mind already? outside the config_template and, for example, testing?14:10
cloudnullthe os-tempest role is a good example between osa and tripleo14:10
cloudnullthe connection plugin as well is another good one14:10
evrardjpwouldn't working on mitogen be better than carrying our own connection plugins?14:11
cloudnullwe have a couple folks working on adapting the connection plugin so we can use it in tripleo14:11
evrardjpoh ok. That works too.14:11
cloudnullmitogen is super cool, and works great, when it works14:12
noonedeadpunkyeah, mitogen looks more prespective. And we'll be able to follow your's example:)14:12
cloudnullI think no matter what we do we'll end up having to maintian something, its just a matter of what we want to maintain14:12
evrardjpI think the overall trend inside OSA is to reduce what we have to maintain.14:12
cloudnullI think it'd be lovely if we could take the connection bits out of mitogen and using just that, at least initially14:13
evrardjp(it always has been though)14:13
evrardjpso what's your proposition on what can we do together? I am a little confused.14:14
cloudnullEvilienM mwhahaha would have a better opinion on the simplification matter, however, I think it makes sense for this group to collaborate on things to lower the tech-debt of all of our projects by focusing on collaborative points.14:14
evrardjpthat makes sense14:15
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evrardjpDo you have some kind of roadmap for triple O, so that noonedeadpunk mnaser can compare it to OSA roadmap and find a series of "touch points" ?14:16
cloudnullfrom where I sit right now, the the plugins in tripleo and OSA are very complimentary. I also think Kolla has something things that we could all adapt and benefit from .14:16
EvilienMroadmap: survive14:16
evrardjpEvilienM: oh. I see14:16
EvilienMa lot of our roadmap is around scale (req for Edge) and simplification (reduce tech debt)14:17
EvilienMand both touch ansible14:17
mgoddardkolla is in an interesting place where we have everything in-tree, and to do otherwise would add a little complexity for our users and cognitive burden to our devs14:17
mgoddardbut enough useful stuff becomes shared, we might get to a point where it makes sense to take that hit14:18
mgoddard*but if14:18
mgoddardthe docker connection plugin sounds neat14:18
evrardjpEvilienM: I see. Simplification is on the roadmap of OSA as far as I can tell too, so we are at least aligned on the goals :) Now I guess it's about how and the tech to be shared14:18
gundalowcloudnull: hey14:18
mgoddardwe have something similar for executing ansible in our kolla_toolbox container, but it's a bit of a fudge14:19
evrardjpisn't there already a docker connection plugin in upstream?14:19
cloudnullowalsh has been working on the docker plugin, which should easily support lxc, nspawn, docker, podman, etc.14:19
cloudnullevrardjp only for local connections14:19
logan-evrardjp: only for localhost14:19
evrardjpoh I thought this has changed14:19
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mgoddardis the connection stacking from mitogen something that could be extracted?14:20
owalshcloudnull: ack, well I was but I've been dragged into other stuff. Hoping to get back to it soon...14:20
mgoddardthat seems like a more general solution14:20
evrardjpI like this indeed14:20
mgoddardI wonder if it's come up in ansible itself14:20
cloudnullwe can reach out to dw and figure out if it is14:20
evrardjpmaybe gundalow knows more?14:21
cloudnullA single 'connection' does not always get us to where we want to. This is NOT an attempt to solve ssh proxying, but a more complex ssh + chroot or ssh + docker to access hosts.14:22
cloudnullis exactly what OSA has had for years14:22
cloudnullso maybe we can work on getting that RFE in14:23
noonedeadpunksounds rly nice14:23
logan-ya the way the mitogen connection stuff works is somewhat similar to osa last I looked. its more abstracted in that you can stack things arbitrarily but the way it works with strategy+connection plugin layout is not a ton different14:24
cloudnullwhich could be a whole sale import of the OSA plugin, pulling bits from mitogen, or something new?14:24
evrardjpI thought we tried bringing this kind of connection plugin in the past, is my memory serving me wrong?14:25
cloudnullwe did14:25
cloudnullit was rejected14:25
cloudnullbut maybe they changed their minds?14:25
evrardjpso here the idea would be to come with more ppl, and try to say "hey we need this" and if it doesn't work, try to make mitogen our "workaround" ?14:25
cloudnullmore voices, from more projects14:26
evrardjpI am trying to understand how I can help here14:26
cloudnullfrom more companies14:26
cloudnulldo does anyone wnat to take lead on the connection plugin efforts ?14:27
evrardjpAssuming it doesn't work, we could also have a galaxy namespace and or a "collection" ?14:27
cloudnulli think mnaser has a namespace on galaxy ?14:28
cloudnullhe's AFK so we'll have to circle back on that14:28
cloudnullwe do have the connection plugin from osa going into a stand-alone repo
* noonedeadpunk has no info about that14:28
cloudnull**we do have / we have a proposal to have14:29
evrardjpcloudnull: ok, so I suppose the idea would be to work on that project, and when it's ready, try to upstream it14:29
evrardjpis that your plan?14:29
gundalowhi, actually here now14:29
cloudnullevrardjp thats always my plan14:29
cloudnullhowever, I'm happy to abandon that effort and pivot if we think it best14:30
evrardjpnope I think it's fine, it will naturally merge our ideas into one code base, so that it's ready for upstream when we think it's mature.14:30
evrardjpit seems mgoddard was interested too, so that looks like a nice place to reduce tech debt for at least 3 projects14:30
cloudnullowalsh do you have yoru docker bits in a repo that we could push into the forked connection plugin ?14:31
owalshcloudnull: not yet, hopefully have time next week to look at this14:32
cloudnullI know you're  a little occupied at the moment, but if you have a branch out there Id be happy to upstream what we have so far?14:32
cloudnullowalsh ++14:32
cloudnullso I think the connection plugin is well covered.14:34
cloudnullwhat else?14:34
cloudnullOSA and TripleO already work together on tempest things, is there a way we could get Kolla into the mix?14:34
evrardjpPersonally I am not too fond of our tempest in OSA. Even if we tried to collaborate on tripleO, I would prefer if tempest was just something I have on my client side, and say "test me this"14:34
cloudnullis there something we can do to better foster that collaboration ?14:34
evrardjpI thought for that a container would be best. Which leads to kolla tempest testing14:35
evrardjpbut I know nothing about it. And right now our things work14:35
evrardjpbut I would love to hear about "just reusing a test container" :)14:35
cloudnullis there a tempest artifact we could consume? mgoddard14:36
evrardjplike something we could just pass a clouds.yaml, a few env vars like OS_CLOUD, a blacklist/whitelist, and then it would automatically test things?14:36
mgoddardkolla provides a tempest container image, if that's what you mean?14:37
mgoddardI don't know how widely used it is though14:37
mgoddardI did have a poke around in the new tempest role. Some of the config seems quite specific14:38
evrardjpwhich one are you talking about, and can we make that not specific so it's used by more than one project?14:38
evrardjpand... do you install python-tempestconf by any chance in the tempest container?14:39
mgoddardI was looking at
evrardjpcloudnull: other question, as you have now a view of both OSA and TripleO, is there a series of roles where OSA is too opinionated, and therefore can't be reused by triple O? Or the other way around, roles not opinionated so they can be reused?14:40
evrardjpmgoddard: yeah, I think it's not great for reuse -- which is why I am proposing to change that :)14:40
mgoddardonly skimmed it and didn't use it though, probably missing sometihng14:41
evrardjpmgoddard: could you tell us more about how the template would be a problem?14:41
evrardjpcause this gets templated, this is just the normal file, after that you layer your overrides14:42
mgoddardflavor_ref = 20014:42
evrardjp(even those you don't see as var)14:42
mgoddardok, I guess that helps14:42
noonedeadpunkSO iirc flavor with this id is being created by role itself14:42
cloudnullevrardjp most of the OSA roles are OSA specific. especially when it comes to the os_* roles. that said, I'm sure we could make some of them work just fine, however, I've not tried to use any of them in TripleO at this time.14:43
evrardjpnoonedeadpunk: it's not necessary though, see also tempestconf14:43
evrardjpcloudnull: I am more thinking about the memcached, galera, etc.14:44
mgoddardI'd need to look at it properly to be sure14:44
cloudnullI've not tried, but I suspect those would be more compatible.14:44
cloudnullevrardjp and mwhahaha might have some thoughts there ?14:44
evrardjpI suppose it's for EvilienM :)14:45
mwhahahadon't use templates? whaat?14:45
evrardjpwow that escalated quickly14:46
mwhahahacould be don't use ansible, but we're not there yet :D14:46
cloudnullbaby steps14:46
mwhahahaopinionated is fine, it's just where you put that opinion14:47
mwhahahawhen it's hard coded in a template, it's a problem14:47
mwhahahaputting it in the role would be better but then having to define everyone of thsoe options is aweful in ansible14:47
evrardjpthis is why config_template was kinda neat here14:47
mwhahahayea i guess for reusability, adopting the config template would be beneficial14:48
mwhahahathe other thing is, if the hard coded values are defaults in python should be actually define them at all?14:48
evrardjpalthough yes, it's less black box to have all those variables defined14:48
mwhahahain puppet we nuke things in the config file if they aren't different then service defaults14:49
cloudnulle.g. - everything in mariadb+galera is setup via config_template14:49
evrardjptechnically we shouldn't carry the defaults14:49
mwhahahaa slight aside but we had an email thread to support folks asking about comments in config. it seems like the overall feeling was people would prefer if the oslo config comments were there14:49
evrardjpif we do carry the defaults, then there is a bug in the template I would say14:50
mwhahahaif they aren't the default, we should have some information indicating why they aren't the default as well14:50
mwhahahamakes it easier to explain why things differ14:50
evrardjpbut we are talking about os_tempest role, which is, IMO not a good place for the best collaboration14:50
cloudnullmwhahaha ++
evrardjpmwhahaha: fair14:50
cloudnullEvilienM asked me to make comment parsing better to preserve all of the comments and their structure14:51
cloudnullat last check I think we're at feature parity with how puppet does it14:51
mwhahahai think so14:52
cloudnull#topic wrap-up14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "wrap-up (Meeting topic: ansible-sig)"14:53
cloudnullgreat conversation all14:53
cloudnullI think we have a couple things to get started on.14:54
cloudnulla quick take away, we will continue looking at the connection plugins and follow up with the mitogen folks to see if we can use / extract only the connection stacking parts.14:55
cloudnullmaybe help work on the ansible RFE14:55
cloudnullmnaser noonedeadpunk mgoddard can you all huddle up on some of the ways we can make tempest testing better?14:55
cloudnull-cc evrardjp14:55
EvilienMcloudnull: yes we have a better parity now14:56
EvilienMcloudnull: i just didn't spend time on the next steps14:56
* EvilienM will do pushups when weshay|ruck do his pullups14:56
cloudnullOK Im going to call this meeting, as I have another meeting to get to.14:56
cloudnullthank you all14:57
noonedeadpunkyep, sure :)14:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Ansible SIG |"14:57
openstackMeeting ended Fri Sep 13 14:57:09 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:57
openstackMinutes (text):
noonedeadpunkit was a great conversation indeed14:57
weshay|ruckEvilienM I'm ready.. let's go14:58
cloudnullweshay|ruck burpees go!14:59
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yoctozeptooh, it seems I've missed the meeting :-( normally the time would be right but today I had some other thing to do, though I assure you it was related:
noonedeadpunkyoctozepto: that's cool, congrats:)21:07
*** EvilienM is now known as EmilienM21:52

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