Thursday, 2016-05-12

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docaedoWho's excited for the app catalog meeting in 15 minutes? :D16:47
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docaedoI've not had any real time for app catalog stuff since the summit, but am not abandoning it. Just will be delayed.17:10
docaedoMy intention is to make the changes to support mistral stuff in the next month or so, and try to get some starter workflows to share17:10
docaedoAlso will hit the ML to start a thread to get a conversation going around what serge and igor were talking about regarding (I think?) a testing infrastructure for murano applications17:11
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docaedoIt came up at the end of our second working session but we didn't have time to finish and I don't think I fully understood what they were suggestion but the idea sounded intriguing17:12
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kfox1111docaedo: its kind of a chicken and the egg problem they are trying to solve.17:27
kfox1111same as I've been pushing.17:27
kfox1111for murano, they need apps to attract users.17:27
docaedoyep, I see it the same way -17:28
kfox1111users to incentivise ops to deploy murano.17:28
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kfox1111murano deployed widely to incentivise developers to create apps. :/17:28
kfox1111and the cycle continues. :/17:28
docaedoafter thinking about it for a while though I'm in favor of helping some way or another to provide an environment that helps people develop/test murano apps17:28
kfox1111so, their current plan, as I understand it, is to try and make a single, killer app.17:29
kfox1111if they can provide that, then users will demand murano from ops, ops will widely deploy it, and then the cycle is broken.17:29
kfox1111The current plan at the summit, was to write the killer app to be a ci/cd pipeline.17:30
kfox1111easily deployable/usable.17:30
docaedoI like the idea - I think if the concept of lifecycle can be addressed (especially around recovery of data after an outage) it could convince a lot of people17:30
kfox1111its something most sites want, but its difficult at present to setup.17:30
docaedoI'd like to see them whip up a phabricator package for murano, that would be excellent17:31
kfox1111I think they may be stepping on Solum's toes though.17:31
kfox1111ah. yeah, a phabricator package would be interesting.17:32
docaedoimagine if openstack projects (like murano or solum) could be decoupled such that you did not need an operators blessing to deploy those bits in your cloud - they would just run within YOUR limitations/quota17:33
kfox1111I think murano has a very bad history with doing tasks that should be handled in some other project and combining them all into murano. :/17:33
* docaedo is keeping his thoughts on that matter to his own self ;)17:33
kfox1111Thats what I've been using as the definition of OpenStack App. :)17:33
kfox1111If you don't need Xaas, you should still be able to deploy X.17:34
kfox1111But, I do think the idea of coming up with one or a few killer apps would go a long way.17:35
docaedoI agree, it would make for an excellent showcase17:36
kfox1111one of the ones I want is a way to plug the stupidly large security hole in docker's ecosystem.17:36
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kfox1111I want a CI/CD like pipeline thing that all it does is scan containers for known out of data packages, and triggers builds of new ones,17:37
kfox1111then pokes the running containers that are two old to rebuild them.17:37
kfox1111it could basically just layer on top of k8s, to fetch all known running container instances, look at them, pull each unique one local, scan for out of data packages,17:39
kfox1111trigger a rebuild of the containers that do, and then triggler Deployment updates to each Deployment that has an out of date one.17:39
docaedothat would be handy17:39
kfox1111Would remove a large amount of work from my plate. :)17:39
kfox1111And I don't think it would be that hard to do either.17:40
kfox1111determining if its out of date or not in my case would really just be "yum upgrade". if it has a package to upgrade, then its out of date.17:40
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kfox1111I'm pretty close with workable keystone integration with k8s too I think.17:42
kfox1111then k8s clusters can work pretty much like any other openstack service.17:43
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docaedothats pretty cool!17:44
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kfox1111Did you see the anouncement of higgins?17:45
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kfox1111the PR for k8s support is here:
docaedodid not, but it's not something I'm following closely at all right now17:46
kfox1111I'm kind of not sure what to make of Higgens. On the one hand, if everyone wants a different COE, I think its going to be good for the App Catalog to have one api to talk to them all.17:47
kfox1111On the other hand, I'm getting more and more convinced k8s will just win out, and then having an abstraction seems just confining.17:47
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kfox1111writing any non trivial app without the advanced features k8s provides may be too difficult to abstract. I use quite a few I don't think are in either mesos or swarm.17:49
kfox1111It would be nice to be able to get some of the more trival ones added to the catalog, but...17:50
kfox1111I don't know.17:50
docaedonice work on the k8s keystone support, that is pretty cool17:50
kfox1111thx. :)17:51
kfox1111once its in place, and I can get the keystone/magnum bits in place,17:51
kfox1111we could add a k8s template type to the catalog.17:51
kfox1111we could get heat to add a k8s resource type, and just push everything through our existing heat template mechanism.17:52
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docaedothat route (through heat) makes the most sense to me17:53
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kfox1111yeah. the main advantage I can see with it is being able to provision other openstack resources. say, deploy a trove db and a container set that uses it at the same time.17:55
kfox1111but, I think that brings forward our need for tags.17:56
kfox1111the template needs an easy way to say to users "I depend on trove and k8s". So the user can filter out, or prefer containers, say.17:56
kfox1111In the app catalog I mean.17:56
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