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| docaedo | Who's excited for the app catalog meeting in 15 minutes? :D | 16:47 |
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| docaedo | I've not had any real time for app catalog stuff since the summit, but am not abandoning it. Just will be delayed. | 17:10 |
| docaedo | My intention is to make the changes to support mistral stuff in the next month or so, and try to get some starter workflows to share | 17:10 |
| docaedo | Also will hit the ML to start a thread to get a conversation going around what serge and igor were talking about regarding (I think?) a testing infrastructure for murano applications | 17:11 |
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| docaedo | It came up at the end of our second working session but we didn't have time to finish and I don't think I fully understood what they were suggestion but the idea sounded intriguing | 17:12 |
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| kfox1111 | kk. | 17:27 |
| kfox1111 | docaedo: its kind of a chicken and the egg problem they are trying to solve. | 17:27 |
| kfox1111 | same as I've been pushing. | 17:27 |
| kfox1111 | for murano, they need apps to attract users. | 17:27 |
| docaedo | yep, I see it the same way - | 17:28 |
| kfox1111 | users to incentivise ops to deploy murano. | 17:28 |
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| kfox1111 | murano deployed widely to incentivise developers to create apps. :/ | 17:28 |
| kfox1111 | and the cycle continues. :/ | 17:28 |
| docaedo | after thinking about it for a while though I'm in favor of helping some way or another to provide an environment that helps people develop/test murano apps | 17:28 |
| kfox1111 | so, their current plan, as I understand it, is to try and make a single, killer app. | 17:29 |
| kfox1111 | if they can provide that, then users will demand murano from ops, ops will widely deploy it, and then the cycle is broken. | 17:29 |
| kfox1111 | The current plan at the summit, was to write the killer app to be a ci/cd pipeline. | 17:30 |
| kfox1111 | easily deployable/usable. | 17:30 |
| docaedo | I like the idea - I think if the concept of lifecycle can be addressed (especially around recovery of data after an outage) it could convince a lot of people | 17:30 |
| kfox1111 | its something most sites want, but its difficult at present to setup. | 17:30 |
| docaedo | I'd like to see them whip up a phabricator package for murano, that would be excellent | 17:31 |
| kfox1111 | I think they may be stepping on Solum's toes though. | 17:31 |
| docaedo | true | 17:32 |
| kfox1111 | ah. yeah, a phabricator package would be interesting. | 17:32 |
| docaedo | imagine if openstack projects (like murano or solum) could be decoupled such that you did not need an operators blessing to deploy those bits in your cloud - they would just run within YOUR limitations/quota | 17:33 |
| kfox1111 | I think murano has a very bad history with doing tasks that should be handled in some other project and combining them all into murano. :/ | 17:33 |
| * docaedo is keeping his thoughts on that matter to his own self ;) | 17:33 | |
| kfox1111 | Yeah. | 17:33 |
| kfox1111 | Thats what I've been using as the definition of OpenStack App. :) | 17:33 |
| kfox1111 | If you don't need Xaas, you should still be able to deploy X. | 17:34 |
| kfox1111 | But, I do think the idea of coming up with one or a few killer apps would go a long way. | 17:35 |
| docaedo | I agree, it would make for an excellent showcase | 17:36 |
| kfox1111 | one of the ones I want is a way to plug the stupidly large security hole in docker's ecosystem. | 17:36 |
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| kfox1111 | I want a CI/CD like pipeline thing that all it does is scan containers for known out of data packages, and triggers builds of new ones, | 17:37 |
| kfox1111 | then pokes the running containers that are two old to rebuild them. | 17:37 |
| kfox1111 | it could basically just layer on top of k8s, to fetch all known running container instances, look at them, pull each unique one local, scan for out of data packages, | 17:39 |
| kfox1111 | trigger a rebuild of the containers that do, and then triggler Deployment updates to each Deployment that has an out of date one. | 17:39 |
| docaedo | that would be handy | 17:39 |
| kfox1111 | Would remove a large amount of work from my plate. :) | 17:39 |
| kfox1111 | And I don't think it would be that hard to do either. | 17:40 |
| kfox1111 | determining if its out of date or not in my case would really just be "yum upgrade". if it has a package to upgrade, then its out of date. | 17:40 |
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| kfox1111 | I'm pretty close with workable keystone integration with k8s too I think. | 17:42 |
| kfox1111 | then k8s clusters can work pretty much like any other openstack service. | 17:43 |
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| docaedo | thats pretty cool! | 17:44 |
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| kfox1111 | Did you see the anouncement of higgins? | 17:45 |
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| kfox1111 | the PR for k8s support is here: https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/25391 | 17:46 |
| docaedo | did not, but it's not something I'm following closely at all right now | 17:46 |
| kfox1111 | I'm kind of not sure what to make of Higgens. On the one hand, if everyone wants a different COE, I think its going to be good for the App Catalog to have one api to talk to them all. | 17:47 |
| kfox1111 | On the other hand, I'm getting more and more convinced k8s will just win out, and then having an abstraction seems just confining. | 17:47 |
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| kfox1111 | writing any non trivial app without the advanced features k8s provides may be too difficult to abstract. I use quite a few I don't think are in either mesos or swarm. | 17:49 |
| kfox1111 | It would be nice to be able to get some of the more trival ones added to the catalog, but... | 17:50 |
| kfox1111 | I don't know. | 17:50 |
| docaedo | nice work on the k8s keystone support, that is pretty cool | 17:50 |
| kfox1111 | thx. :) | 17:51 |
| kfox1111 | once its in place, and I can get the keystone/magnum bits in place, | 17:51 |
| kfox1111 | we could add a k8s template type to the catalog. | 17:51 |
| kfox1111 | or, | 17:52 |
| kfox1111 | we could get heat to add a k8s resource type, and just push everything through our existing heat template mechanism. | 17:52 |
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| docaedo | that route (through heat) makes the most sense to me | 17:53 |
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| kfox1111 | yeah. the main advantage I can see with it is being able to provision other openstack resources. say, deploy a trove db and a container set that uses it at the same time. | 17:55 |
| kfox1111 | but, I think that brings forward our need for tags. | 17:56 |
| kfox1111 | the template needs an easy way to say to users "I depend on trove and k8s". So the user can filter out, or prefer containers, say. | 17:56 |
| kfox1111 | In the app catalog I mean. | 17:56 |
| docaedo | true | 17:57 |
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