| jgriffith | thingee: so I can understand people want an easier way to consume all the tricks you can do with extra-specs | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jgriffith | thingee: but what I don't understand is the value in displaying: | 00:00 |
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| thingee | my use example shows a command being issued to get the capabilities of a particular pool within a backend. None of that information was meant to come off as being hardcoded in the driver. The driver should be asking the backend for that information then pass it back in a structured way. | 00:00 |
| jgriffith | thingee: dude... it's the same thing | 00:01 |
| jgriffith | thingee: driver and backend are synonymous here | 00:01 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm not following the point on this | 00:01 |
| thingee | the driver to me is python code. i.e. the class we define today as a volume driver. | 00:02 |
| thingee | the backend, is the actual implementation the driver is talking to | 00:02 |
| jgriffith | sure... ok, sorry; to me the driver talks to the backend and that's where it gets its info from so making that distinction didn't make sense | 00:02 |
| jgriffith | but ok | 00:02 |
| jgriffith | I also still point out that my data structure was 100% the same in that respect | 00:03 |
| jgriffith | so dont' know what the point of that comment was anyway | 00:03 |
| jgriffith | hemna: so I do have one question | 00:03 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: you said the "whole point is we want the description" | 00:04 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: I think hemna bowed out | 00:04 |
| jgriffith | oh... smart guy | 00:04 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: maybe you can help me understand | 00:04 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: but yeah, part of the motivation behind this spec was to provide meaningful information on the extra specs | 00:04 |
| jgriffith | he mentioned somethign like "the whole point is to hvae the description" | 00:04 |
| jgriffith | but if you look at my version of personal reporting vs the one you guys started with | 00:04 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: it's description, permitted values, etc. | 00:04 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: basically what you see in a json schema | 00:04 |
| jgriffith | The ONLY thing that's missing is "override the hp3par snap stting, title and type | 00:05 |
| jgriffith | who cares | 00:05 |
| thingee | it's not json schema. I think we wanted that so other things can understand how to consume it. From your example, it doesn't appear the backend is passing back to Cinder an explanation of what the extra spec and what the value can be. | 00:05 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you don't know what compression is :) | 00:05 |
| jgriffith | thingee: so yeah you're right | 00:06 |
| jgriffith | I didn't put a whole section for HP to document what the call a "persona" | 00:06 |
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| jgriffith | but honestly I don't think that's appropriate | 00:06 |
| jgriffith | but I'm obviously in the minority | 00:06 |
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| jgriffith | so on that note, this particular problem is all yours and HP's | 00:06 |
| thingee | well the only explanation I got from you is it's messy. | 00:07 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: the intent was not to reproduce a manual, just to provide a brief description | 00:07 |
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| jgriffith | gary-smith: yeah, that's fair | 00:07 |
| jgriffith | ok.. well, I took a shot | 00:07 |
| jgriffith | didn't work out | 00:07 |
| jgriffith | win some lose some | 00:07 |
| jgriffith | no big deal | 00:07 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thanks for taking a look at it anyway | 00:08 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: what's going on? what does 'win some lose some' imply? | 00:09 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: I thought we were getting somewhere | 00:09 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: oh... sorry, just means sometimes people like your proposal, and sometimes they don't | 00:09 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: oh... it didn't seem like we were, maybe I missed something | 00:09 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: I thought yours was fine, but lacked a couple things like possibility of a description, couple others. | 00:10 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: but I didn't see a way to provide review comments on a gist | 00:10 |
| jgriffith | ok, cool | 00:10 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 00:10 |
| jgriffith | well yeah, that's why I put it up there :) | 00:10 |
| jgriffith | so I couldn't get flamed :) | 00:11 |
| thingee | I was pretty excited about this... mostly because I have spent a bit of time talking to different users and what they were asking for seemed to align very closely to these bps hp originally set out to do. But I wanted there to be standards as much as possible. | 00:11 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: that's one way :-) | 00:11 |
| thingee | I'm not saying no one else here talks to users, but that's what was motivating me. | 00:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: cool, but I would say in all fairness you did ask for my input | 00:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: and I still don't know what the whole device vs driver thing was all about | 00:12 |
| thingee | well all I have to go off your opinion is its messy. and who cares about that information being exposed. | 00:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ok | 00:12 |
| thingee | from cinder | 00:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: well.. let's see; should I try and be nice, or just be a jerk | 00:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: let's try nice for a bit :) | 00:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I think I provided more than "it's messy" | 00:13 |
| jgriffith | One of my concerns with what you proposed as well as what HP proposed | 00:13 |
| jgriffith | is that there's no formal structure to the data | 00:14 |
| jgriffith | in other words, it's pretty much impossible to automate | 00:14 |
| jgriffith | or querie in a meaningful way | 00:14 |
| jgriffith | My descriptions in that gist I posted actually tried to point that out | 00:14 |
| jgriffith | There's a known/expected organization for every entry | 00:15 |
| thingee | I disagree with that. I'll admit the approach I was taking might not work with the scheduler today, but my intentions was the data structure could be constructed by the driver to the scheduler and out through the cinder-api. | 00:15 |
| thingee | I tried my best to articulate that in my example that's starts off what the driver tells the scheduler, all the way to what the admin sees from the cli...to how the admin would express it in an extra spec. | 00:16 |
| jgriffith | Ok, my bad then | 00:16 |
| jgriffith | sorry | 00:16 |
| jgriffith | thingee: look at the end of the day, I was just trying to help out based on your request | 00:17 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you don't like it, or agree with the propsoal that's no problem | 00:18 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you want to modify it, that's fine too | 00:18 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you want to dump it in a river with an anchor around it, that's cool | 00:18 |
| jgriffith | thingee: it really doesn't matter much to me | 00:19 |
| jgriffith | I thought it was well structured and fairly complete, but I wrote it, so of course I would think that :) | 00:19 |
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| jgriffith | gary-smith: BTW, if description is the only real hang up, that could just be added as a single standard key in the capabilities key | 00:21 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: it would also be nice to be able to specify the type and possible ranges | 00:21 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: yeah, I'm not a fan but that's cool | 00:22 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: I just think sometimes too much information is worse than too little, there's a balance IMO | 00:23 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: i.e. is it expecting a number, a boolean, etc. I guess your spec handled boolean with an enum of ['true', 'false'], that could work, too | 00:23 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: do you mean too much information for the user? | 00:24 |
| jgriffith | well.. admin user | 00:24 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: yes, of course | 00:24 |
| jgriffith | end user is a whole diff thing but we're not displaying any of this to them | 00:24 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: right, they just see vol types | 00:24 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: for things like ranges, you don't necessarily need to display them to the admin user, but including them in the structure has value, ... | 00:25 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: such as being able to programatically validate against them | 00:25 |
| jgriffith | I can see that | 00:25 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: for like personas though, it just seemed kinda silly/redundant to list out options "Generic", "AIX" etc | 00:26 |
| jgriffith | and then say "hey.. by the way these are strings"... "duhhhh" | 00:26 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: obviously 'string' would be the default and would need to be specified | 00:27 |
| jgriffith | but man was I wrong! | 00:27 |
| jgriffith | Pissed of Walt and Mike both at the same time | 00:27 |
| jgriffith | hey... that's like some kinda record for me I think | 00:27 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: for personas, those values (Generic, etc.) are the actual values that have to be entered by the admin in the extra spec | 00:27 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: right, that's why I put them there that way | 00:27 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: so an automated example: 'persona':'options'[4] | 00:28 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: sorry, misread your statement. it's redundant to list them and also say type='string'. agreed | 00:28 |
| jgriffith | err... I left out the "persona=" | 00:28 |
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| gary-smith | jgriffith: so your gist isn't dramatically different than what we were proposing except for leaving out a few key/values (like title, namespace, etc) most of which we could live without | 00:31 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: yeah, I actually thought it would be a bit more well accdepted :) | 00:32 |
| jgriffith | mostly because it is closer to what you initially proposed | 00:32 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: but one thing we did have is that the structure was the same as the jsonschema spec, which permits us to programatically validate extra specs against it | 00:32 |
| jgriffith | and took some of the things we talked about in Austin | 00:32 |
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| jgriffith | gary-smith: not sure... what do you mean same as jsonschema spec? | 00:33 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: http://json-schema.org/ is a standard way to describe how json data is supposed to look | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: oh!! | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | that | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | sorry | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | derp | 00:34 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: and extra_specs are basically in a json format | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | Oh, certainly if the schema is busted that should be fixed | 00:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tomoki Sekiyama proposed openstack/cinder: Ensure initialize_connection in targets pass multipath parameter https://review.openstack.org/155933 | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | I mean if it's busted in my version, it should be fixed | 00:34 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: so to be fair I just threw that together this afternoon real quick | 00:35 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: fair enough | 00:35 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: would you consider putting it up as a alternative bp to consider/debate/refine ? | 00:35 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: spec, I mean | 00:35 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: what are you trying to get me killed! | 00:36 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: LOL | 00:36 |
| jgriffith | I think it's obvious the PTL took things the wrong way already | 00:36 |
| jgriffith | and hemna left too | 00:36 |
| jgriffith | so I think I'm just going to leave it to you and Mike to figure out what you want at this point | 00:37 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: feel free to take anything from that that you like | 00:37 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: and if you don't like any of it, well that's ok too | 00:37 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: ok. So you're not gonna -2 anything that contains a brief description then? | 00:37 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: I might make suggestions :) | 00:38 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: so honestly I am trying not to -2 anything any more | 00:38 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: fair enough | 00:38 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: been getting a good bit of heat from folks for being "too negative" | 00:38 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: so I would ask that we have a consistent structure of keys that's easy to automate | 00:39 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: agreed. | 00:39 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: and if you need descriptions, fair enough, but brief would be awesome, and consistency in how they're presented | 00:39 |
| gary-smith | jgriffith: i did have one question on your gist | 00:39 |
| jgriffith | sure | 00:40 |
| gary-smith | there doesn't seem to be much of a diff between a base_key and a well_defined capability. | 00:40 |
| gary-smith | what is the difference? | 00:40 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: so I struggled with that piece.... the distinction in my mind was somethign like this: | 00:40 |
| jgriffith | base_key is stuff that is just reported | 00:41 |
| jgriffith | like "capacity" | 00:41 |
| jgriffith | it's a value the device reports | 00:41 |
| jgriffith | it has nothing to do with a capability option | 00:41 |
| jgriffith | the well-defined keys are meant to be things that you can set to "modify" or "expose" unique behaviors or options on a device | 00:41 |
| gary-smith | where would qos_supported be? I think it's in that realm of base keys now | 00:42 |
| gary-smith | doh! | 00:42 |
| gary-smith | i see, you put it in capabilities | 00:42 |
| jgriffith | yeah, see to me it's not | 00:42 |
| gary-smith | got it | 00:42 |
| jgriffith | right.. because it's no matter what it's still a "feature" | 00:42 |
| jgriffith | having a "name" isn't a feature, it's a flat out requirement | 00:43 |
| jgriffith | and there are no options associated with it | 00:43 |
| gary-smith | and thus would never show up in an extra_spec, either, right? | 00:43 |
| jgriffith | things in base-keys are things that I don't think are optional or have options associated with them | 00:43 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: EXACTLY!! | 00:43 |
| jgriffith | yes | 00:43 |
| gary-smith | that's a reasonable distinction | 00:44 |
| jgriffith | that's why I put that note about the name "base_key" | 00:44 |
| jgriffith | it's not a very descriptive label | 00:45 |
| gary-smith | yeah, naming is so hard to get right | 00:45 |
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| gary-smith | one extra wrinkle, though, is that the filter scheduler currently compares extra specs with all values it finds under 'capabilities'. I guess it would have to also look under 'base_keys'.. | 00:47 |
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| gary-smith | or figure out another way to incorporate 'base_keys' into the 'capabilities' section | 00:47 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: yeah, that's what I intended at any rate | 00:47 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: I looked at the code and it's pretty easy to change it up | 00:47 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: ya know the other thing is we could work it the other way | 00:48 |
| gary-smith | yeah, the filter scheduler is simple, but... | 00:48 |
| jgriffith | leave the existing stuff and have a seperate "new" structure for the new stuff | 00:48 |
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| jgriffith | and later add that to filter sched if we want | 00:48 |
| jgriffith | dunno | 00:48 |
| jgriffith | I think it's easy to solve though | 00:49 |
| gary-smith | that might work, might have to thing that thruogh | 00:49 |
| gary-smith | I'd be perfectly happy to have all of this extra info (enums, types, etc.) in a separate structure, too | 00:50 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: yeah, it just can get weird figuring out where that is, but maybe we just go with the idea of the extra-specs vs other | 00:51 |
| jgriffith | that's actually pretty reasonable I think | 00:51 |
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| gary-smith | yup | 00:54 |
| jgriffith | gary-smith: well, if you want to collaborate on this more I'm happy to work with you on it | 00:55 |
| jgriffith | for now though, I think I'm going to go home; last thing I need to do is make someone at home mad too :) | 00:55 |
| gary-smith | :-) me too. Have a good weekend | 00:56 |
| jgriffith | you too, catch ya later | 00:56 |
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| anish | jgriffith: got a sec ? need an expert opinion on something | 00:58 |
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| anish | smcginnis: whoops. saw your comment earlier, but completely forgot about it in a dumb comment | 02:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Anish Bhatt proposed openstack/cinder: Add support for chiscsi iscsi helper https://review.openstack.org/147758 | 02:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Anish Bhatt proposed openstack/cinder: Improve error handling in Targets refactoring https://review.openstack.org/154713 | 02:28 |
| anish | smcginnis: thanks for the clarification, I was thoroughly confused :) | 02:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sasikanth Eda proposed openstack/cinder: Volume Replication support - GPFS Synchronous mirroring https://review.openstack.org/153918 | 04:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/cinder: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/152401 | 06:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | QiangGuan proposed openstack/cinder: Remove useless storage_availability_zone import https://review.openstack.org/153932 | 07:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | wuyuting proposed openstack/cinder: Tenant can't set readonly metadata to True https://review.openstack.org/155668 | 11:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | wuyuting proposed openstack/cinder: Admin extends tenant's volume but change admin's quota https://review.openstack.org/155607 | 11:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Griffith proposed openstack/cinder: Remove the deactivate retry https://review.openstack.org/155981 | 15:48 |
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