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| openstackgerrit | HouMing Wang proposed openstack/magnum: Functional test for flavor validation in bay creation https://review.openstack.org/267423 | 02:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rabi Mishra proposed openstack/magnum: [WIP] test heat latest fix https://review.openstack.org/280048 | 02:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Yang Hongyang proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Sync with oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/280050 | 03:13 |
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| sdake | hongbin you around | 03:25 |
| hongbin | sdake: yes sir | 03:25 |
| hongbin | sup | 03:25 |
| sdake | re atomic | 03:25 |
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| sdake | what exactly are the current pain points with atomic | 03:26 |
| hongbin | image building | 03:26 |
| sdake | ok, back up a step | 03:26 |
| sdake | why do you need to image build | 03:26 |
| hongbin | I guess Ton needs a newer version of flannel | 03:27 |
| sdake | ok so the main components of container things are constantly out of date in atomic? | 03:27 |
| hongbin | Daneyou mentioned that he want to upgrade the vesion of docker | 03:27 |
| hongbin | seems like that is a problem | 03:28 |
| sdake | ya thats the problem i had with atomic too when I worked heavily on magnum | 03:28 |
| sdake | atomic always out of date | 03:28 |
| sdake | which required image building | 03:28 |
| hongbin | yes definitely | 03:28 |
| sdake | i think there is a simpler solution then image building | 03:28 |
| hongbin | another problem is hard to use I guess | 03:29 |
| sdake | and that is for atomic not to be out of date | 03:29 |
| hongbin | lot of ppl complain there are no document for atomic | 03:29 |
| sdake | hongbin you will have this same image build problem with every distro | 03:29 |
| mandre | hongbin, would better doc on image building help here or is the issue deeper? | 03:29 |
| sdake | mandre the image building blows | 03:29 |
| sdake | but yes 2 hours of documentation writing would be helpful | 03:29 |
| sdake | hongbin let me introduce you to mandre | 03:30 |
| sdake | he is a core reviewer on the kolla team | 03:30 |
| hongbin | Hey | 03:30 |
| mandre | hi | 03:30 |
| sdake | part of his day job is improving the interaction between magnum and atomic | 03:30 |
| hongbin | ack | 03:30 |
| sdake | i was really frustrated by atomic's lack of upstream responsiveness | 03:30 |
| sdake | the other part of his day job is working on kolla | 03:31 |
| sdake | so lets keep bitching so mandre knows what to fix please ;) | 03:31 |
| sdake | hongbin the hard to use part | 03:32 |
| sdake | could you go into more depth there | 03:32 |
| sdake | it seems like just any other distro, except /usr is readonly | 03:32 |
| sdake | I suspect magnum will want to use coreos as well which has same scenario | 03:32 |
| hongbin | I worked on coreos recently | 03:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Yang Hongyang proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Sync with oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/280050 | 03:32 |
| hongbin | There are several things that coreos is better than atomic | 03:32 |
| hongbin | i) I can easily google the answer when I encourter a problem | 03:33 |
| sdake | well i won't debate one vs another, the point of magnum early on was to have distro choice ;) | 03:33 |
| hongbin | k | 03:33 |
| sdake | hongbin i think this relates to upstream interaction right? | 03:33 |
| hongbin | sort of | 03:34 |
| sdake | esssentially coreos has a better upstream footprint | 03:34 |
| sdake | and it is somethign to emulate | 03:34 |
| mandre | yes please, keep up with up with the constructive criticisms, there is a real desire to improve the situation for you guys using atomic | 03:34 |
| hongbin | Yes, I would say the ease of use and upstream support is the key | 03:35 |
| sdake | so image building is not the key? | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Things like figuring out how to do something | 03:35 |
| hongbin | also the key :) | 03:35 |
| sdake | image building is a symptom of upstream interaction i think | 03:35 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:36 |
| sdake | upstream essentially doesn't give a shit if you can build the image sor not | 03:36 |
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| hongbin | maybe they don't support image building officially? | 03:36 |
| hongbin | I couldn't find any doc for image building in the official website | 03:37 |
| sdake | hongbin so image building documentation, that is easy to fix | 03:38 |
| sdake | mandre doesn't write the best english documents because he is not a native speaker | 03:39 |
| sdake | but he can find people that can get that done | 03:39 |
| hongbin | yeah, that would be great | 03:39 |
| sdake | i want to get to the actual root of the problem | 03:39 |
| sdake | image building is a symptom imo | 03:39 |
| sdake | hongbin have you ever joined the atomic irc channel? | 03:40 |
| hongbin | I think the root is how easy the develop to figure out how to do A/B/C | 03:40 |
| hongbin | no | 03:40 |
| sdake | why not? | 03:40 |
| hongbin | because I am not working on atomic heavily. Ton does | 03:40 |
| sdake | i see | 03:40 |
| sdake | have you been to coreos channel? | 03:40 |
| hongbin | no | 03:40 |
| mandre | sdake, you mentioned in your email to openstack-dev that magnum would benefit from having an atomic image with only docker on it, and the rest being containerized | 03:41 |
| sdake | yes that would fix the out of date dependencies problem | 03:41 |
| sdake | except for docker | 03:41 |
| hongbin | I think we needs more package | 03:41 |
| hongbin | so far, we need docker, flannel, kebelet, etcd | 03:41 |
| hongbin | those are not containerized | 03:41 |
| mandre | I don't know how crazy this idea is, or even if the atomic folks would accept that, but you're still thinking it's the best for magnum? | 03:42 |
| sdake | absolutely | 03:42 |
| sdake | then you only have one daemon to deal with on updates | 03:42 |
| sdake | which is docker | 03:42 |
| sdake | and people can run containers of the others which please them | 03:42 |
| sdake | but that is not the root of the problem!! | 03:42 |
| sdake | the root of the problem is the atomic people do not have an upstream footprint so they dont get this kind of feedback!!!!! | 03:42 |
| sdake | I have to get super grumpy on openstack-dev which I dont like doing to get thiings moving | 03:43 |
| sdake | it shouldn't be like that | 03:43 |
| sdake | it shoudl be more like "shit we are atomic and we want to roll best, what do we need to do that" | 03:43 |
| mandre | sdake, noted | 03:43 |
| sdake | part of that is not living in a vacuum | 03:43 |
| sdake | mandre I know more then anyone how hard open source really is | 03:44 |
| sdake | it takes a full commitment to live it | 03:44 |
| sdake | you probably see that in my work (atleast up until the last 6 weeks when i've been distracted with my remodel and root canal) | 03:44 |
| sdake | mandre but listen, straight up, a lecture isn't going to fix the problem | 03:45 |
| sdake | i tried that several times | 03:45 |
| sdake | at 41 years old, I have finally figured out, lectures don't fix anything | 03:45 |
| sdake | they need proper coaching on operating as a community | 03:45 |
| sdake | lon or beekhof are good candidates for coaches in their sphere | 03:46 |
| mandre | I can't speak for the atomic devs but it seems their lack of availability is actually what you're complaining about? | 03:46 |
| sdake | yes | 03:46 |
| sdake | "too busy working on product to give a flying fuck about people actually wanting to spend 30 minutes to try out our software" | 03:47 |
| sdake | there aer many roots of hte problem | 03:47 |
| hongbin | agree absolutely | 03:47 |
| sdake | you see, if you improve upstream and downstream communication, this containerization of the services *WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE 12 MONTHS AGO* | 03:48 |
| mandre | and on the technical aspect of things? I noted it shipped with too old versions of required software, is that all? | 03:48 |
| sdake | mandre i think magnum can live with an out of date distro in general | 03:48 |
| sdake | but the key components of a container infrasturcutre, cannot be lived without weekly or more often builds | 03:48 |
| sdake | the atomic guys talked aobut doing two week builds | 03:48 |
| sdake | but it never happened | 03:48 |
| sdake | still hasn't happened | 03:49 |
| hongbin | coreos has three channel | 03:49 |
| hongbin | to down different version of images | 03:49 |
| sdake | hongbin expand please | 03:49 |
| hongbin | coreos has three channels: old, middle , newest | 03:49 |
| hongbin | normally, the old one is the stable image | 03:50 |
| sdake | i copy good patterns all the time | 03:50 |
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| sdake | almsot everything i do is somethign i've done before | 03:50 |
| sdake | copy complete in intel terminology | 03:50 |
| hongbin | :) | 03:50 |
| sdake | even heat, was a copy of aws tech | 03:50 |
| hongbin | ya | 03:50 |
| sdake | magnum however, was a fresh implementation - no copying going on there | 03:50 |
| sdake | hongbin I have a big ask | 03:52 |
| hongbin | how big :) | 03:52 |
| sdake | I know its big mainly because I don't participate in Magnum and really have no room to ask any longer | 03:52 |
| sdake | i know magnum community is close to giving up on atomic permanently | 03:52 |
| hongbin | maybe not | 03:53 |
| sdake | well my ask is, can you give them 12-18 months to get into shape | 03:53 |
| sdake | if they can't fix their issues in 18 months, its never going to happen | 03:53 |
| hongbin | there will be coreos and atomic in parallel I guess | 03:53 |
| hongbin | Personlly, I have no problem with that | 03:53 |
| sdake | hongbon it shoudl be in parallel but you need to put these guys on a clock or they have no incentive to improve | 03:53 |
| sdake | i know if certain people have their way, atomic could be deprecated as early as Newton release | 03:54 |
| sdake | and rmeoved in Ocatta | 03:54 |
| sdake | it solves the multi-distro "problem" of the templates being complexx | 03:54 |
| sdake | its really strategic for OpenStack to have multiple distros in Magnum | 03:55 |
| sdake | super important | 03:55 |
| hongbin | I observed the situation is not so bad | 03:55 |
| sdake | if you take away that choice, and only have coreos i think it would be damaging to Magnum | 03:55 |
| sdake | hongbin mind expanding | 03:55 |
| hongbin | I am open for that | 03:55 |
| sdake | open for which | 03:55 |
| hongbin | have multiple distro | 03:56 |
| sdake | right but the distros need to carry their weight downstream right? | 03:56 |
| mandre | sorry guys, I had a small emergency at home | 03:56 |
| sdake | that is why ubuntu is not in the distro | 03:56 |
| sdake | rather in magnum | 03:56 |
| hongbin | mandre: nice to meet you. see you later | 03:56 |
| mandre | it looks like the situation is not as bad as some of the later mails suggested | 03:56 |
| hongbin | don't get the downstream thing | 03:57 |
| mandre | there is definitly things that need to be improved, thanks a lot for summarizing your thoughts | 03:57 |
| hongbin | sdake: yes. I think everyone agreed to have more than one distro | 03:58 |
| hongbin | That is not the issue I think | 03:59 |
| sdake | hongbin cool | 03:59 |
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| sdake | hongbin you dont think the integrationbetween upstream and downstream is an issue? | 03:59 |
| hongbin | maybe I should not say everyone, but most of them | 03:59 |
| mandre | I'll point people to this log, thanks again sdake and hongbin | 03:59 |
| hongbin | I don't know much about downstream | 03:59 |
| sdake | hongbin, magnum is a downstream of atomic | 03:59 |
| hongbin | mandre: np | 03:59 |
| hongbin | oh I see | 04:00 |
| hongbin | what integration do you mean? | 04:00 |
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| hongbin | I think magnum is just using atomic | 04:00 |
| sdake | i mean being able to join the atomic channel and ask questions and get someone to solve the problem | 04:02 |
| sdake | atleast with #kolla, if someone comes into the channel | 04:02 |
| sdake | we work with them until the problem is solved | 04:03 |
| sdake | pretty much around the clock | 04:03 |
| sdake | that doesn't happen with atomic | 04:03 |
| hongbin | I will definitely go to their channel if I need | 04:03 |
| hongbin | For sure | 04:03 |
| sdake | hongbin you miss the point which is when you do that, atleast t-6 months ago, crickets | 04:04 |
| sdake | i have this same complaint of hte kubernetes community | 04:04 |
| sdake | if your going to write software that is open source must have an upstream presence | 04:04 |
| sdake | just like your on irc now :) | 04:04 |
| hongbin | so you mean in atomic channel 24 hour? | 04:05 |
| sdake | well kolla is pretty much 24 hours | 04:05 |
| sdake | and we aren't even a full blown distribution of linux | 04:05 |
| sdake | if we can do it with volunteers | 04:05 |
| sdake | but i'd settle for us workign hours | 04:06 |
| sdake | to be fair sometimes they respond | 04:06 |
| sdake | but they dont finish the job on solving the problem | 04:06 |
| sdake | this is why you prefer coreos | 04:06 |
| sdake | because you can find answers to yoru questions | 04:06 |
| sdake | and tlak to the devs live if you like | 04:06 |
| sdake | anyway I think mandre has enough to get started | 04:07 |
| sdake | but if you could push back on atomic removal upstream, i'd super appreciate it | 04:07 |
| hongbin | Yes, I don't think I get what I can do for the atomic channel... | 04:07 |
| sdake | just give them some time to sort out their issues | 04:08 |
| sdake | there is nothing YOU can do | 04:08 |
| sdake | there is something atomic can do | 04:08 |
| hongbin | k | 04:08 |
| sdake | some time equaling atleast 3 more releases of openstack :) | 04:08 |
| hongbin | ack | 04:09 |
| sdake | thanks :) | 04:09 |
| hongbin | np at all | 04:09 |
| sdake | btw i kind of came at you | 04:09 |
| sdake | because mandre got my blood pressure up | 04:09 |
| sdake | sorry about that | 04:09 |
| sdake | hwo youbeen :) | 04:09 |
| hongbin | good thanks. Always nice to talk to you | 04:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Yang Hongyang proposed openstack/magnum: Update import because of magnum client change https://review.openstack.org/280059 | 04:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rabi Mishra proposed openstack/magnum: [DNM] test heat latest fix https://review.openstack.org/280048 | 07:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Corey O'Brien proposed openstack/magnum: [WIP] Copy logs on test failure https://review.openstack.org/278127 | 13:52 |
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| hongbin | Shiv: Shiva Ramdeen? | 15:44 |
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| ramishra | hongbin: hi | 15:54 |
| hongbin | ramishra: hey | 15:54 |
| ramishra | hongbin: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280048/ seems to pass the mesos tests | 15:55 |
| hongbin | looks great! | 15:55 |
| hongbin | The api test seems to be unrelated | 15:55 |
| hongbin | I will recheck it to make sure | 15:55 |
| ramishra | hongbin: yeah | 15:55 |
| hongbin | ramishra: thanks for addressing the issue | 15:56 |
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| hongbin | greatly appreciate it | 15:56 |
| ramishra | btw one suggestion | 15:56 |
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| hongbin | yes | 15:57 |
| ramishra | you should use POLL_TEMP_URL for software_config_transport | 15:57 |
| ramishra | I assume you've swift services enabled | 15:57 |
| ramishra | not the default POLL_SERVER_CFN for the server | 15:57 |
| ramishra | That's mostly for backward cfn compatability | 15:58 |
| hongbin | Sure, I will look into it | 15:58 |
| hongbin | The default is POLL_TEMP_URL ? | 15:58 |
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| ramishra | default POLL_SERVER_CFN for backward compatibility. But POLL_TEMP_URL is preferred is same is true for signal_transport for SD | 15:59 |
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| hongbin | I see | 15:59 |
| hongbin | get that | 15:59 |
| ramishra | default is CFN_SIGNAL, but you should use TEMP_URL_SIGNAL | 15:59 |
| hongbin | Will open a bug for that | 15:59 |
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| ramishra | If you would have been using TEMP_URL, we would not have seen the issue | 16:01 |
| ramishra | though we've fixed it now | 16:01 |
| ramishra | it would work for any transport | 16:01 |
| ramishra | Would you be able to give the new patchset a try locally and confirm . I'm not sure if the depends-on works well. | 16:02 |
| hongbin | sure, doing it | 16:02 |
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| hongbin | ramishra: worked | 16:09 |
| ramishra | hongbin: can you pl put a comment on the patchset mentioning that? | 16:09 |
| ramishra | hongbin: that will help the reviewers;) | 16:10 |
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| hongbin | ramishra: done | 16:11 |
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| madhuri | Tango: Hi there? | 18:43 |
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| madhuri | Hi eghobo | 18:47 |
| eghobo | madhuri, hi what's up? | 18:47 |
| madhuri | I was just wondering. Do we check for resources available on nodes before deploying any container? | 18:48 |
| eghobo | like? | 18:48 |
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| eghobo | it's Swarm/Kub/Mesos job to track all resources | 18:49 |
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| madhuri | Like availble memory | 18:50 |
| eghobo | do you mean vm has enough memory for running container? | 18:51 |
| madhuri | Yes | 18:52 |
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| eghobo | COE will do this, but only if you specify your limits (e.g. Mesos has it by default, Kub don't have them by default but you can add default limits) | 18:55 |
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| madhuri | Where do we specify it? And who tracks it? | 18:56 |
| madhuri | I am sorry. I don't want to go into code much now | 18:56 |
| coreyob | I think eghobo is talking about native limits like this one: http://kubernetes.io/v1.1/docs/admin/limitrange/README.html | 18:57 |
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| eghobo | coreyob: it's correct. madhuri | 18:58 |
| eghobo | resources: | 18:58 |
| eghobo | limits: | 18:58 |
| eghobo | cpu: 300m | 18:58 |
| eghobo | memory: 200Mi | 18:58 |
| madhuri | Ok so we don't do it in magnum? | 18:59 |
| coreyob | correct | 18:59 |
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| madhuri | Thanks coreyob eghobo :) | 19:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Corey O'Brien proposed openstack/magnum: Copy logs on test failure https://review.openstack.org/278127 | 21:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Surojit Pathak proposed openstack/magnum: Spec for asynchronous container operations https://review.openstack.org/275003 | 22:45 |
| suro-patz1 | hongbin: the revised patch is up for review ^^^ | 22:47 |
| hongbin | suro-patz1: ack. Will review it | 22:47 |
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| hongbin | suro-patz1: FYI, there are debates on the /container resources: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/magnum-native-api | 22:51 |
| hongbin | We are going to discuss it in the midcycle, possibly will make a decision | 22:52 |
| hongbin | so I am not sure the future of the container resource | 22:52 |
| hongbin | Perhaps don't work on it further until the team makes a decision | 22:52 |
| hongbin | It is up to you though | 22:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/magnum: Turn selinux back on after cloud-init https://review.openstack.org/277883 | 23:07 |
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