Tuesday, 2026-10-06

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darmach#startmeeting magnum13:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Tue Oct  6 13:00:09 2026 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is darmach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'magnum'13:00
darmach#topic rollcall13:00
darmacho/13:00
mgrzybeko/13:00
mgrzybekI have a pending neview for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/magnum-capi-helm/+/100551113:01
darmachNothing new on the agenda today, mgrzybek do you have something?13:01
mgrzybekA big upgrade of compenents13:01
mgrzybekOtherwise I would be happy to get some feedback about my HCP blueprint.13:02
darmachI see, that -1 comment was resolved. Let me take further look, and we'll get this rolling13:02
mgrzybekGreat!13:03
mgrzybekI guess that people will have a look at my blueprint during the next coming PTG: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/magnum-specs/+/99959613:04
mgrzybekJust get in touch if anyone wants to talk about it.13:05
darmachcan you add that to etherpad notes?13:05
darmachhttps://etherpad.opendev.org/p/magnum-weekly-meeting#L513:05
jakeyipo/ sorry am late13:06
darmachHi Jake! mnasiadka said you might skip today13:06
darmachDo you have anything for todays meeting?13:07
darmach#topic Discussion13:08
jakeyipI don't have much to do, you guys need help in pushing anything?13:08
darmachWe have that change above from mgrzybek, waiting for review. Not much to push for now.13:09
darmachWill you be coming to PTG?13:09
jakeyipsorry, reword - I don't have much to push. :D still have (work) stuff to do :P13:09
jakeyipdarmach: I shared with mnasiadka; I'll come if I can13:10
darmachAll right. Any timeslot preferences?13:10
darmachWe can sort it out after the meeting :)13:11
darmachIf noone is coming up with anything we can finish for today. If anyone wants to add something - feel free to add it to etherpad, also topics to discuss for the next meeting agenda.13:13
darmach#endmeeting13:13
opendevmeetMeeting ended Tue Oct  6 13:13:40 2026 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:13
opendevmeetMinutes:        https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/magnum/2026/magnum.2026-10-06-13.00.html13:13
opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/magnum/2026/magnum.2026-10-06-13.00.txt13:13
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/magnum/2026/magnum.2026-10-06-13.00.log.html13:13
jakeyipyeah I'd need to go thru kamaji. haven't touched that before13:14
jakeyipmgrzybek: why did you want to add it to magnum-capi-helm instead of another driver? 13:15
mgrzybekThis is the only tool designed as a backoffice engine. Some other solutions exist but they are standalone products.13:16
mgrzybekSo this is the easiest way to use it with Magnum.13:17
jakeyipon a brief look, I feel like it's different enough to warrant it as a separate driver. you can have multiple coe drivers with magnum13:19
mgrzybekHmmm, mnasiadka told me it could also be a dedicated driver. 13:20
jakeyipI am worried that extending magnum-capi-helm to do too many things mean it can't evolve fast and/or break other things when it changes. 13:21
mgrzybekWriting some glue using Helm is fine, maybe using a dedicated Helm chart. But you are right: one tool --> one use case13:21
mnasiadkaI don’t know if we want to replicate Helm usage in the same way that we currently do in magnum-capi-helm13:23
mnasiadkaIt’s fragile13:23
jakeyipyeah if new driver, do without the helm layer, don't need one more level of indirection13:23
jakeyipI wrote this previously to cater for multiple drivers https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/magnum/+/907297 . see if that works13:24
mgrzybekI would love to remove Helm too and manage raw YAMLs. A lot easier for me!13:24
jakeyipgo crazy :) 13:25
mnasiadkaGo boring I’d say13:26
mnasiadkaPython, API, yaml, that’s more like it13:27
jakeyip:)13:27
mnasiadkaBut we need to think in a wider perspective, I’d like to go forward with multiple management clusters and a kubeadm driver to manage them13:27
mgrzybekTrue. I try to avoid layers of layers of layers.13:27
mnasiadkaAnd them some approach to manage cluster extensions by a user (use Helm for that)13:28
mnasiadkaAnd Kamaji seems to fit in that direction as well13:28
jakeyipwhat's the use case for multiple mgmt clusters?13:29
mnasiadkaWell, tried running more than 30-40 tenant clusters?13:30
mnasiadkaAnd upgrading CAPI mgmt cluster?13:30
mnasiadkaclusterctl move is way easier13:30
mnasiadkaAnd there are people that don’t really want the cloud admin to have keys to their cluster13:31
mgrzybekFrom what I see there are two layers: 1. upgrading many clusters. 2. upgrading addons on many clusters.13:32
jakeyipwill be good to document those use cases 13:34
jakeyipalso think we are talking about 2 things - 1. allow multiple management clusters,  2. multiple tenant control planes a management cluster13:35
jakeyip2. multiple tenant control planes *on* a management cluster 13:36
mgrzybekIndeed.13:37
jakeyipeach solve differnt problems? (1) is basically sharding to split load    (2) reduces inefficiency by using a management cluster for all CP instead of multiple CP nodes (x3 for HA)13:39
mgrzybekTrue.13:44
jakeyipchat agian next meeting. seeya13:56
andrewbogott__Regarding the magnum-cluster-api... I'm late to realizing that there is a fair amount of state about tenant clusters stored in the capi mgmt cluster. Can I get advice about how to preserve/maintain/recreate/whatever that state?  I'm worried that if my management cluster breaks or is lost for other reasons all the user clusters will be unmaintainable orphans.15:41
jrosserwe made a backup/restore thing for it15:44
jrossercluster-api has something for exporting the cluster state, though its has big warnings associated with it15:44
andrewbogott__What are you backing up? Does your backup/restore thing use the cluster-api export feature?15:46
jrosseryes it does15:46
andrewbogott__And I take it that works for you despite the big warnings?15:47
andrewbogott__Is your code public or just internal?15:47
jrosserhttps://opendev.org/openstack/openstack-ansible-plugins/src/branch/master/playbooks/k8s.yml#L166-L23015:48
mgrzybekBackup tools like Velero dumps the whole etcd database. So you can restore easily.15:48
andrewbogott__ok! That's useful. I might have an etcd backup tool handy already.15:48
jrosser^ yes theres lots of approaches and I think at the time the clusterctl export/import was not guaranteed to work15:49
mgrzybekI guess these features were mainly written to create `clusterctl move`15:49
andrewbogott__thanks y'all!15:50

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