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| openstackgerrit | Sundar Nadathur proposed openstack/cyborg master: Cyborg/Nova/Glance interaction in compute node, including os-acc. https://review.openstack.org/577438 | 05:31 |
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| Li_Liu | #startmeeting openstack-cyborg | 14:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 27 14:04:15 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Li_Liu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 14:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_cyborg' | 14:04 |
| Li_Liu | #topic Roll Call | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 14:04 | |
| Li_Liu | #info Li_Liu | 14:04 |
| shaohe_feng | #shaohe_feng | 14:04 |
| shaohe_feng | #info shaohe_feng | 14:05 |
| efried | ō/ | 14:05 |
| sum12 | #info sum12 | 14:05 |
| Sundar | #info Sundar | 14:06 |
| Li_Liu | Let's get started | 14:07 |
| Li_Liu | Howard is not here today, I will run the meeting for me today | 14:07 |
| Li_Liu | #topic os-acc discussion | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "os-acc discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 14:07 | |
| Li_Liu | HI Sundar, do you want to lead this topic? | 14:08 |
| Sundar | Sure, Li Liu | 14:08 |
| Sundar | The os-acc spec was updated as indicated in #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-June/131751.html | 14:09 |
| Sundar | The reasons for the update are listed there as well | 14:09 |
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| * efried owes y'all a review on that | 14:10 | |
| Sundar | The updated spec is in #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/577438/ | 14:10 |
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| Sundar | efried: One comment I got was to include a sequence diagram | 14:10 |
| efried | yup | 14:10 |
| Sundar | When I follow https://review.openstack.org/#/c/572583/11/specs/rocky/approved/reshape-provider-tree.rst, I get an error in RST syntax | 14:11 |
| Sundar | The seqdiag directive is not known to standard RST editors | 14:11 |
| Sundar | What do you do to in addition to updating requirements.txt etc.? | 14:11 |
| efried | Sundar: Right, you have to set up dependencies and other stuff in your env | 14:11 |
| efried | hold on, let me find the patch where we added that stuff into nova-specs... | 14:12 |
| Sundar | Yes, requirements.txt and doc/source/conf.py need to be updated | 14:12 |
| efried | right, okay - so you did those things and it's still busted? | 14:12 |
| Li_Liu | Sundar, quick question, do we still need a dedicated os-acc spec on top of this one you posted? | 14:13 |
| Sundar | The standard RST editors like http://rst.ninjs.org/# wouldn't know about them. So, how do you check before a submit? | 14:13 |
| efried | If you're building locally, you'll need to make sure the dep is installed into your venv. You can do that by adding -r to your tox command, or you can enter the venv and install it manually via pip | 14:13 |
| Sundar | OK, how do you run the tox command? | 14:14 |
| efried | Sundar: How have you been running it thus far? | 14:14 |
| efried | tox -e docs ? | 14:15 |
| Sundar | SO, tox -e -r docs? | 14:15 |
| efried | So you would say tox -re docs instead. That will rebuild the venv from scratch. That's assuming your problem is the missing dependency. | 14:15 |
| Sundar | Got it. Thanks, Eric. | 14:15 |
| efried | No, -e is how you specify which testenv, so tox -r -e docs or tox -re docs | 14:15 |
| Sundar | Li Liu: I don't see why. We should be able to add any additional detail here | 14:15 |
| efried | ++ ^ | 14:16 |
| Sundar | Sure, Eric | 14:16 |
| efried | agree the goal should be to have all the necessary design detail here. | 14:16 |
| Li_Liu | sure, that is what I figured | 14:16 |
| efried | Sundar: This is assuming the problem was the missing dependency. If you're still having problems, let me know and I'll see if I can help out. | 14:16 |
| Sundar | Li Liu: We presumably need to add a bit more detail on how we can do a plugin for x86+FPGAs. Is that what you are looking for. | 14:16 |
| Sundar | Thanks, Eric. I may take up on that if things don't work out by today :) | 14:17 |
| efried | we're still doing this in openstack/cyborg, huh? | 14:17 |
| Li_Liu | yup | 14:17 |
| efried | any plans to move to cyborg-specs? | 14:17 |
| efried | would make things easier to find :) | 14:18 |
| Sundar | I was told we have latitude to stick to the current location for this cycle. | 14:18 |
| Li_Liu | that's sounds good, let's get the current ones merged before we start the moving | 14:18 |
| Li_Liu | right | 14:19 |
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| Sundar | OK, next steps are to add a sequence diagram. Also, I would propose a plugin for x86 + FPGAs, and a separate one for x86 + GPUs. The main reason to stick to x86 is that that's all I know about :) | 14:20 |
| Sundar | We can probably generalize to ARM if SR-IOV works the same way there. Power is an area where we need Eric's input | 14:20 |
| Li_Liu | how much difference if it was arm or even power? | 14:20 |
| efried | I don't think you should be proposing specific plugins via this spec. | 14:21 |
| efried | just the framework. | 14:21 |
| efried | The plugins themselves will ultimately be the responsibility of the vendors. | 14:21 |
| efried | I would think. | 14:21 |
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| Sundar | For x86+FPGAs, we could have a community-supported plugin which calls into Cyborg/agent/driver for vendor-specific stuff | 14:21 |
| Li_Liu | shall we provide a reference from community tho? | 14:22 |
| Sundar | Li_Liu: yes ^^ | 14:22 |
| Sundar | Li_Liu: "how much difference if it was arm or even power?" Power seems to be quite different IIUC. Eric can expand on that | 14:23 |
| shaohe_feng | entry points for driver. | 14:23 |
| efried | Yeah, e.g. if the plugin has a "plug" operation, on libvirt this entails, what, editing the domain XML and doing stuff to special files under /dev? | 14:24 |
| efried | In POWER, it entails making a REST call to the NovaLink API asking for an I/O slot to be attached to a logical partition (VM) and the platform does the magic. | 14:25 |
| efried | Totally, totally different model. | 14:25 |
| efried | and definitely not something the cyborg team should try to become domain experts on. | 14:25 |
| Sundar | efried: Agreed. The plugin model should be able to handle such differences. The return value of the plug() itself is left open for that reason. | 14:26 |
| Li_Liu | sounds good | 14:26 |
| efried | I would think the return value would be an Acc* object | 14:27 |
| Sundar | That is why it may make sense to have a x86/ARM/libvirt section that specifies what plug(), does | 14:27 |
| efried | If it needs to contain platform-specific data, that goes in the *Profile bit, or something. | 14:27 |
| Sundar | The return value can be a VAN object with enough data that is hypervisor-specific | 14:28 |
| efried | Sundar: sorry, yeah, I guess we're calling it VAN now. | 14:28 |
| Sundar | The port profiles in Neutron may not be applicable here IMHO | 14:28 |
| efried | But again, I don't think your spec should go into any detail as to what each platform's plugin actually does. You could mention it for the sake of example/understanding, but it should not be the role of this spec to lay out the details. | 14:28 |
| Sundar | OK. If we agree that we will do a community-supported plugin for x86 + FPGAs, I can write a separate spec for that. Is that fine? | 14:29 |
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| efried | yes, that sounds like the right plan. | 14:30 |
| efried | Sundar: update on the seqdiag: right now it looks like the cyborg repo isn't yet using the "new" process for doc builds. | 14:31 |
| efried | So you'll want to put the requirement into test-requirements.txt instead of creating a new doc/requirements.txt | 14:31 |
| Sundar | Li_Liu, shaohe, all: do we all agree on this plan? | 14:31 |
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| efried | or you can switch over to the new build process | 14:31 |
| Sundar | Ah, I put it in cyborg/requirements.txt | 14:32 |
| Sundar | That seems closest? | 14:32 |
| Li_Liu | Sundar, i am fine | 14:32 |
| efried | Right now your docs env is calling out test-requirements.txt | 14:33 |
| efried | I don't actually see anything calling out requirements.txt, which is weird. | 14:33 |
| efried | Sundar: Anyway, I'm noodling around with it locally, will let you know if I get something working. | 14:35 |
| Li_Liu | let's moving on | 14:35 |
| Sundar | efried: Sorry, where do you see the reference to test-requirements.txt? | 14:35 |
| Sundar | I mean , I see the file but what in doc is referring to it? | 14:36 |
| Li_Liu | Cyborg had a meetup in Beijing LC3 yesterday, shaohe_feng do you have anything to share? | 14:37 |
| shaohe_feng | zhipengh[m], introduce some scenario about cyborg | 14:38 |
| Li_Liu | #topic LC3 meetup summary | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LC3 meetup summary (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 14:39 | |
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| Li_Liu | ok, I will gather more information from the folks who attend the meetup and share with rest of the team | 14:43 |
| Li_Liu | #topc AoB | 14:44 |
| Li_Liu | #topic AoB | 14:44 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "AoB (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 14:44 | |
| shaohe_feng | Do you know iflytek? Sundar, Li_Liu | 14:44 |
| Li_Liu | I know them | 14:44 |
| shaohe_feng | #link http://www.iflytek.com/en/index.html | 14:45 |
| Sundar | This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFlytek | 14:45 |
| shaohe_feng | It is a famous AI company in China. | 14:46 |
| shaohe_feng | Sundar, yes. | 14:46 |
| shaohe_feng | AI will be a cyborg scenario. | 14:47 |
| shaohe_feng | they need accelerator | 14:47 |
| shaohe_feng | then we discuss the current status of cyborg development. | 14:47 |
| Sundar | GPUs? | 14:47 |
| shaohe_feng | Sundar, Gpus and FPGA. | 14:48 |
| wangzhh | FPGAs, also. :) | 14:48 |
| Li_Liu | are they planing to put people on Cyborg? | 14:48 |
| shaohe_feng | Not sure. | 14:48 |
| shaohe_feng | Sundar, they develop logic on FPGA. | 14:49 |
| shaohe_feng | we have a gap on cyborg API design. | 14:50 |
| Sundar | Interesting. So, they have their own bitstreams. How are they using it -- like FPGA aaS? | 14:50 |
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| shaohe_feng | Not sure how do they use it. | 14:52 |
| shaohe_feng | Sundar, will check with them about it by mail. and CC you. | 14:52 |
| shaohe_feng | for we need to interactive nova. | 14:52 |
| Sundar | shaohe: Ok | 14:53 |
| shaohe_feng | wangzhh, introduce the whole flow for the interaction. | 14:53 |
| shaohe_feng | they have do a demo for it during summit. | 14:53 |
| wangzhh | OK. We have a discussion offline this afternoon. | 14:54 |
| wangzhh | Let me introduce about it. | 14:54 |
| shaohe_feng | wangzhh, can you give a more details on it? | 14:54 |
| wangzhh | It is about the flow of creating, deleting and rebooting instance with accelerators. | 14:55 |
| wangzhh | Create: | 14:55 |
| wangzhh | 1. nova-api (Create an instance with acc) | 14:55 |
| wangzhh | 2. nova-conductor => nova-scheduler => placement-api (Get a node list and claim the accelerator unit) | 14:56 |
| wangzhh | 3. nova-conductor => nova-compute | 14:56 |
| wangzhh | Extra work we should do in nova: | 14:56 |
| wangzhh | a) nova-compute => cyborgclient => cyborg-api (Update acc, instance_uuid, assignable,etc. Program here if it is a request of fpga) | 14:56 |
| wangzhh | b) nova-compute pass parameters to os-acc(accelerator_address, acc_type, etc.) and get xml segment | 14:56 |
| Sundar | Why do they do "nova-compute => cyborgclient => cyborg-api" for programming? We can do it entirely in compute node | 14:57 |
| Sundar | We need to update the db, and that requires an RPC to the conductor | 14:58 |
| Sundar | But, otherwise, it can all be in os-acc/Cyborg-agent/driver | 14:58 |
| wangzhh | It is for 2 reasons. | 14:58 |
| efried | I'll just mention that there was a nova core (it might have been Dan) who said nova-compute should never have to call the cyborg API; everything should be done via os-acc. | 14:58 |
| efried | I could be misquoting too :( | 14:58 |
| Sundar | wangzhh: Did they modify Cyborg? | 15:00 |
| wangzhh | 1. In Openstack, It is a common design to interact by api. 2. We have something like update quota in api. | 15:00 |
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| Sundar | wangzhh: If Nova compute has to call the REST APIs of Neutron, Cinder, Cyborg, ... it can get out of hand. The os-acc/os-vif/os-brick is supposed to solve that problem | 15:02 |
| wangzhh | efried, if so, could we imply it by os-acc =》 cyborclient? | 15:03 |
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| efried | wangzhh: Yes, I would think so. | 15:03 |
| Sundar | efried: How about Power? Would you have os-acc call Cyborg for that too? | 15:03 |
| efried | Sundar: I would think any calls from os-acc to cyborg API would happen *outside* of the plugin, in the common os-acc code. | 15:04 |
| wangzhh | Sundar, IMHO os-vif/os-brick didn't call neutron or cinder. | 15:04 |
| efried | I probably need to punt on this issue, just wanted to bring it up so y'all didn't get miles down the road and end up surprised if someone started waving a red flag. | 15:05 |
| Sundar | In the currently proposed flow, os-acc --> plugin, and the plugin can do whatever it wants. For FPGAs, I think it would call Cyborg agent, which in turn can call the Cyborg conductor etc. | 15:05 |
| Sundar | For Power plugin, there could be a common os-acc function which invokes cyborg client to update the API | 15:06 |
| wangzhh | I think API is the entry of cyborg. | 15:06 |
| wangzhh | If we call agent directly. Some process would be complex. | 15:07 |
| Sundar | For vendor-specific actions, we need to delegate to the drivers, which would be through the agent. | 15:08 |
| wangzhh | We can reuse client if so. | 15:08 |
| wangzhh | Instead of init a rpc client and do extra works. | 15:08 |
| Li_Liu | should os-acc be calling the Cyborg API from the top instead of call Cyborg driver? | 15:09 |
| Sundar | Sure, we can have the Cyborg agent use the cyborgclient too. Then we need to configure the REST API URL etc. but that gives a single entry point to update allocation/release | 15:09 |
| wangzhh | It is cyborg-api =》 cyborg-agent | 15:09 |
| Li_Liu | i mean shall if be like: os-acc --> Cyborg api --> Cyborg agent ? | 15:10 |
| wangzhh | Yes, uncle li | 15:10 |
| wangzhh | Sundar, client is for restful api | 15:11 |
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| Sundar | Li_Liu: There is no need for such circuitous paths, and that probably won't work for Power. Eric doesn't want Cyborg to be in the middle for Power | 15:11 |
| wangzhh | But agent is a rpc server. | 15:11 |
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| Sundar | Folks, we need 2 things: vendor-specific actions (through Cyborg drivers for FPGAs etc.), and update the db (which can be through REST API) | 15:12 |
| Li_Liu | why Power does not work in this case, efried? | 15:12 |
| efried | I want code provided by cyborg to do everything that's not platform specific; and I want everything that's platform specific done by plugin code. That's all. | 15:12 |
| efried | That needs to apply to *all* platforms, including libvirt. | 15:13 |
| efried | There's a tendency to think of libvirt as being "common". It's not. | 15:13 |
| efried | (It's common in the sense of "pervasive" - not common in the sense of "all code paths go through it") | 15:14 |
| Li_Liu | I understand, I don't think going through os-acc --> Cyborg api --> Cyborg agent could be a problem for you | 15:14 |
| Sundar | To me, that means: os-acc calls the plugin for all vendor/arch-specific actions. The os-acc or the plugin must call into Cyborg REST API to update the db. | 15:14 |
| efried | ^ this | 15:14 |
| efried | And I'm tending toward s/or the plugin// | 15:14 |
| efried | but will have to see how the actual flows shake out. | 15:15 |
| Sundar | efried: That is how the spec is written today | 15:15 |
| * efried sheepish | 15:15 | |
| Li_Liu | Sundar, that I agree, but call Cyborg Agent/Driver directly from os-acc might be a problem | 15:15 |
| efried | still need to review | 15:15 |
| wangzhh | Sundar, | 15:16 |
| Sundar | Li Liu: os-acc --> plugin. The plugin possibly calls Cyborg agent, but always updates Cyborg db through REST API | 15:16 |
| wangzhh | It 's not just update state of acc in db when attach acc. | 15:17 |
| wangzhh | Something should be done by API | 15:17 |
| Sundar | Why "by API"? All actions can be done by Cyborg agent/drivers or the plugin, except for updating db | 15:18 |
| Sundar | E.g. programming | 15:18 |
| wangzhh | Yes, but as a management service. | 15:18 |
| Li_Liu | even the programming function is now exposed by REST api | 15:18 |
| efried | Does programming require platform-specific code? | 15:18 |
| efried | I would kind of expect it does. | 15:19 |
| Sundar | efried: Yes ^^ | 15:19 |
| wangzhh | We must maintain other meta, | 15:19 |
| Li_Liu | efried, in cyborg itself, not platform-specific code, in the driver plugin, yes | 15:19 |
| wangzhh | Quota usage, project or user info. | 15:19 |
| Sundar | I would use the Cyborg driver on the node to do the programming. Using the compute node --> controller --> compute node loop relies on connectivity being intact through out the operation, and has more failure modes | 15:20 |
| wangzhh | It is in oslo_context or handled by APi | 15:20 |
| efried | So what I would expect is that os-acc would have a 'program' method; that method would do anything generic (like maybe downloading the image? not sure) and then call into the plugin's 'program' method to do the platform-specific bits. | 15:20 |
| efried | but I wouldn't expect the plugin to call the cyborg API for any part of that. | 15:21 |
| Li_Liu | well, os-acc is not meant for attach/detach right now | 15:21 |
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| Li_Liu | programming is done in vendor device drivers | 15:21 |
| Li_Liu | as programming process does not involve nova at all | 15:22 |
| efried | "os-acc is not meant for attach/detach right now" ? | 15:22 |
| Li_Liu | sorry | 15:22 |
| wangzhh | efried, Yes. If nova wouldn't call client, we should have programe | 15:23 |
| Li_Liu | typo. is meat for attach/detach right now... :( | 15:23 |
| Sundar | The os-acc is an abstraction for Nova Compute to Cyborg, for all devices, not just FPGAs | 15:23 |
| Sundar | It includes attach/detach and any associated actions like device-specific configuration and programming | 15:24 |
| Sundar | The latter part is delegated to plugins, which in turn may delegate them to Cyborg drivers | 15:24 |
| Sundar | So, os-acc does not have a 'program' primitive natively | 15:25 |
| Sundar | That is left to any FPGA plugin. Agree with Li_Liu that it would be done via Cyborg drivers down the chain | 15:25 |
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| Sundar | One expectation seems to be that all programming has to go through REST API? If so, as I explained, that relies on connectivity and has more failure modes | 15:26 |
| Sundar | Only bitstream fetching needs connectivity | 15:27 |
| Sundar | Anyways, please review the spec :) | 15:28 |
| Li_Liu | ok, I think we open up more questions in os-acc spec, we can discuss them in the code review | 15:29 |
| Li_Liu | Let's wrap up and end the meeting for now and continuous the discussion offline | 15:29 |
| Li_Liu | #endmeeting | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec review day (Meeting topic: openstack-cyborg)" | 15:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 27 15:29:59 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_cyborg/2018/openstack_cyborg.2018-06-27-14.04.html | 15:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_cyborg/2018/openstack_cyborg.2018-06-27-14.04.txt | 15:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_cyborg/2018/openstack_cyborg.2018-06-27-14.04.log.html | 15:30 |
| efried | Sundar: Back to specs building: when y'all submit a spec to the repository, does it actually get built into an HTML file anywhere, ever? | 15:31 |
| Sundar | Li_Liu or shaohe: do you know the answer to efried's question? | 15:31 |
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| efried | (Hint: looking at your tox.ini, I'm not sure how it could) | 15:31 |
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| Sundar | efried: I think I understand what you mean. The doc build succeeds and places the output in doc/build/html/. But the specs don't seem to be there. | 15:51 |
| efried | Sundar: Right. I'm committing a patch right now that will cause them to be built. | 15:51 |
| Sundar | Excellent. Thanks a lot, Eric! | 15:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Build specs https://review.openstack.org/578455 | 15:53 |
| efried | Sundar: ^ | 15:53 |
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| Sundar | Thanks very much, Eric. I'll try this out. | 16:11 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Cyborg/Nova/Glance interaction in compute node, including os-acc. https://review.openstack.org/577438 | 16:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: WIP/POC: seqdiag https://review.openstack.org/578460 | 16:12 |
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| efried | Sundar: I rebased your spec patch on top of the 'build specs' patch; and then threw another delta on top of it ^ which demonstrates a seqdiag being built. | 16:12 |
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| efried | Sundar: This works for me locally. Once that top patch gets through zuul we can take a look and make sure it rendered. | 16:13 |
| efried | Sundar: If you want to build locally, you can use tox -e specs or tox -e docs which is a superset thereof. | 16:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Move specs under doc/source so they build https://review.openstack.org/578455 | 17:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Cyborg/Nova/Glance interaction in compute node, including os-acc. https://review.openstack.org/577438 | 17:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: WIP/POC: seqdiag https://review.openstack.org/578460 | 17:45 |
| efried | This ^ may not work without a doc/requirements.txt, but trying... | 17:46 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Move specs under doc/source so they build https://review.openstack.org/578455 | 22:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Cyborg/Nova/Glance interaction in compute node, including os-acc. https://review.openstack.org/577438 | 22:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Cyborg/Nova/Glance interaction in compute node, including os-acc. https://review.openstack.org/577438 | 22:30 |
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| efried | Hey all, with ^ you now have specs rendering, including seqdiag: http://logs.openstack.org/38/577438/6/check/build-openstack-sphinx-docs/d2219f5/html/specs/rocky/approved/compute-node.html | 23:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/cyborg master: Move specs under doc/source so they build https://review.openstack.org/578455 | 23:08 |
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