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| trinaths | ML2 reviewers: I feel the patch is good now. please review the driver patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78092/. your review will help me a lot. | 02:04 |
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| trinaths | Hi all :) | 06:38 |
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| aniket | hi all,can anybody tell me what changes should i do to connect my instance to internet?? i am using 1 NIC ? | 10:22 |
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| aniket | hello | 10:29 |
| aniket | anyone? | 10:29 |
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| lxsli | aniket: try #openstack, this is for dev questions | 12:14 |
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| samuelmz | Hi, where can I find the documentation (into the code) for http://docs.openstack.org/ ? | 15:02 |
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| trinaths | samuelmz: you mean API docs ? | 15:08 |
| samuelmz | trinaths, if the api docs are put in this url, yes :) | 15:09 |
| samuelmz | trinaths, in fact, I'm looking for this page (http://docs.openstack.org/icehouse/install-guide/install/apt/content/install_clients.html) | 15:09 |
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| samuelmz-hungry | trinaths, I'm back in 1 hour, :) | 15:14 |
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| dosaboy | chmouel: ping | 15:52 |
| jokke_ | pong | 15:52 |
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| jokke_ | sry | 15:53 |
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| ajayaa | Hi. Would nova break if I use keystone v3 tokens with it? | 18:13 |
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| ajayaa | Is there a way to know which operations are going to work? | 18:13 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: ping | 18:31 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: The Galera deadlock thing; thats reported as a ROLLBACK to clients right ? its just a late error (on COMMIT) rather than an early error (on lock acquisition) ? | 18:34 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: pong | 18:37 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: no, it is reported as a deadlock (although technially it is not a deadlock) to clients. and unfortunately, we do not handle it (retry) properly at this point. | 18:38 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: I am in the process of submitting a blueprint that will fix (nova-side) this problem. will ping you with a link when it's pushed. | 18:38 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: semantically, is it the same as a ROLLBACK? I mean, if we taught sqlalchemy to treat it as a ROLLBACK would it be 'correct' ? | 18:38 |
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| lifeless | (though I'm aware there are performance implications in the late-detection aspect) | 18:39 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: great, look forward to reviewing it | 18:39 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: no, technically, that's what happens now (a rollback occurs on *both* threads), but that's not technically necessary, and a lock-free implementation of quotas and other things is possible where neither thread would receive a rollback. | 18:39 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: I thought you said the client doesn't see it as a rollback ? I may be using bad terminology | 18:40 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: so, in a normal deadlock situation (non-galera), only thread B would receive a rollback. thread A would succeed. in the case of galera, since it's not a deadlock (it's actually a failure on both nodes to certify the working set that was replicated), both threads will issue a rollback of the update statement. | 18:42 |
| jaypipes | sorry if that was not clear.. | 18:42 |
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| lifeless | thats clear | 18:42 |
| lifeless | I'm concerned here not with the server | 18:42 |
| lifeless | but with the client side perception of the error | 18:42 |
| lifeless | does it look different to the normal deadlock sitiation, e.g. does thread B thing something *different* happened | 18:43 |
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| lifeless | or will the normal (assuming it has been written to do that) retry-on-conflict code in client thread B trigger | 18:43 |
| jaypipes | could you be more specific what you mean by "client side"? are you referring to, say, novaclient issuing some HTTP request? or are you referring to the greenthread that is executing a mysql client connection? | 18:43 |
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| lifeless | greenthread | 18:43 |
| jaypipes | k | 18:43 |
| lifeless | transaction conflicts are a normal part of the sql spec, is what I'm getting at | 18:44 |
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| jaypipes | so, no, both threads simply bail (issue a rollback on the mysql connection) and report that the SQL operation failed back to the calling greenthread. there's no loss of consistency or atomicity. | 18:44 |
| lifeless | I'm trying to understand if handling this per the regular behaviour of the sql spec is *correct* even if wasteful | 18:44 |
| jaypipes | yes, it is per spec. | 18:44 |
| lifeless | ok | 18:44 |
| lifeless | so follow on question | 18:45 |
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| lifeless | if folk are seeing this happen and get corrupt db's or failed agents etc | 18:45 |
| lifeless | those are all genuine bugs in e.g. Neutron, right ? | 18:45 |
| lifeless | since the DB is still all per spec | 18:45 |
| jaypipes | it's simply the behvaiour of sql isolation conflicts that is different. in galera, the conflict happens *after* the SQL has been replicated to other nodes (and those node attempt to apply the working set and notice another thread has (in the meantime) updated the same record set. | 18:45 |
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| lifeless | and conflicts can happen whenever there is concurrency | 18:46 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: yep, that was my understanding; I'm making sure my facts are right before I go off half cocked :) | 18:46 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: the source of problems is in the excessive use of SELECT FOR UPDATE. in the case of normal MySQL, SELECT FOR UPDATE issues write-intent locks on all rows affected by the statement, and won't let any other thread update those rows. In Galera, there's no such write-intent locks. Instead, optimistic concurrency control is in place, and any conflicts of those row writes are handled ex-post-facto. | 18:47 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: in other words, it's merely a difference of when and how the conflict is dealt with. the data, in either case, remains consistent. | 18:47 |
| lifeless | yes | 18:48 |
| lifeless | on the client side the visible differences are: a) the conflict happens on COMMIT not on SELECT FOR UPDATE | 18:48 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: no worries. you know I could talk about this all day long and bore the living daylights out of most folks ;) | 18:48 |
| lifeless | and b) all clients involved see the conflict | 18:48 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: yes, above statements are exactly correct. | 18:48 |
| lifeless | is there a c) (e.g. a different code or something that might trip up parsers?) | 18:48 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: no on c) | 18:49 |
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| lifeless | great | 18:49 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: my tl;dr is - a) we make this common through SELECT FOR UPDATE and b) 'but if it happens in any user/ops visible way its a bug where we should be handling conflicts *anyway*' | 18:51 |
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| samuelmz | Hi, on which repository the docs at http://docs.openstack.org/icehouse/install-guide/install/apt/content/install_clients.html are placed on? | 18:52 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: if I've got that right, then I think I've got my facts lined up :) | 18:53 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: ehh, kinda? :) my plan is to entirely get rid of SELECT FOR UPDATE and use a technique from obstruction-free algorithms that retrieves the record set with a regular SELECT, and then issues UPDATEs using a WHERE condition that winnows the updated resultset to only records that met the pre-retrieved vision of what the state of the world looked like, and if the update did not affect any rows, retry the SELECT a | 18:54 |
| jaypipes | nd then UPDATE in a randomized exponential backoff loop. | 18:54 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: thats a great strategy to mitigate a) | 18:54 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: but b) is still valid, no ? | 18:55 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: I can rephrase - are there any situations where we would *never* see a conflict today (remembering that select for update will conflict if it can't get the lock...) | 18:55 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: but that we will see it with galera | 18:55 |
| clarkb | samuelmz: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/doc/install-guide | 18:56 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: the situation as it stands today is that if thread B updates the same records as thread A within the same transaction session times, both threads will receive a deadlock (that isn't a deadlock...) and will issue a rollback of their UPDATE statements. | 18:56 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: the diff between galera and standard mysql is that in standard mysql, thread B would recieve a rollback adn thread A's update would succeed. | 18:57 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: also, if operating galera with single-writer, identical behaviour to standard mysql would be seen. | 18:58 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: yes, I get that. | 18:58 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: that doesn't seem to invalidate my b) above | 18:58 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: but your response suggests you think it does. | 18:58 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: what do I have wrong ? | 18:58 |
| samuelmz | clarkb, great, thanks | 18:59 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: there is nothing wrong with your a) and b) :) | 18:59 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: ok :) - your 'ehhh kinda' made me think there was | 18:59 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: my solution will handle the conflicts in both threads, though :) both threads will "back off and retry" at a random interval. | 19:00 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: yes; thats work we need to do under b) (but we could do that work without reducing select for update usage, or in parallel with it) | 19:00 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: ah, I see what you mean, yes. | 19:01 |
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| lifeless | retrying is orthogonal to reducing deadlock-through-use-of-select-for-update | 19:01 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: there's also steps we can take to consolidate a number of existing SQL statements into one, particularly in the quota commit and reserve pieces. | 19:01 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: yep | 19:02 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: I'd like to see low hanging fruit (like retry-stuff-with-backoff) done as quickly as possible | 19:02 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: and we have lots of different places that use FOR UPDATE; its going to take a while to fix them | 19:03 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: it's a little more than low-hanging-fruit, but yes, agreed. | 19:03 |
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| lifeless | ok, time to embarass myself in the thread | 19:03 |
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| jaypipes | :) | 19:03 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: ok, mail sent | 19:12 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: so - you've seen the 'galera does not support select for update' thread ? | 19:14 |
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| greghaynes | Have now. Ugh. | 19:16 |
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| greghaynes | gotta lunch but looks like I have some reading to do | 19:18 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: so I think the answer is fairly simple | 19:20 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: tell haproxy to pick the first-up-node in its list for mysql | 19:20 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: rather than balancing, we want it to unbalance | 19:20 |
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| jaypipes | annegentle: woudn't mind a review from you on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94252/ please :) | 19:53 |
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| greghaynes | lifeless: What do we do about active connections when that list changes? | 20:13 |
| greghaynes | lifeless: seems like we would also have to kill them | 20:13 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: nothing | 20:13 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: if you kill them you trigger either an error or a rety | 20:13 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: the thing we're avoiding is an error/retry. | 20:13 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: so the cure is no better than the illness | 20:14 |
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| greghaynes | I am up for doing the HAProxy bit, I agree that it is an improvement | 20:16 |
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| greghaynes | I just think if youre regularly changing the list youll end up with a reasonable amount of connctions on an old master | 20:16 |
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| greghaynes | lifeless: Specifically, although they get a rollback, they dont necessarially close the connection, which increases the probability of it happening again | 20:19 |
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| greghaynes | That actually would probably cause a net more errors though... | 20:19 |
| greghaynes | so ugh | 20:19 |
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| greghaynes | Also, I recall someone mentioning this at the TripleO sprint? Do you remember who that was? | 20:22 |
| lifeless | fuel' | 20:22 |
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