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| jogo | devananda: ping | 01:54 |
|---|---|---|
| devananda | jogo: pong | 01:54 |
| jogo | devananda: just read your taxidermy errr taxonomy | 01:54 |
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| devananda | heh | 01:55 |
| jogo | I like how you are focusing on what it means for testing | 01:55 |
| devananda | thanks | 01:55 |
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| devananda | it emerged from actually mapping out each functional/optional/mutual dependency | 01:55 |
| jogo | devananda: as if we don't sort out the testing thing soon, we will keep living in a world of hurt (for gate people) | 01:56 |
| devananda | yup | 01:56 |
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| jogo | devananda: it may be possible to actually model up the relationships in a graph (based on some machine readable file) | 01:56 |
| devananda | yes | 01:56 |
| devananda | jogo: we should definitely do that | 01:57 |
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| devananda | jogo: open question: where do python-*client libs fit into this model? | 01:57 |
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| jogo | https://networkx.github.io/documentation/latest/reference/readwrite.yaml.html | 01:57 |
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| jogo | testing wise: python-*clients should IMHO have unit tests and functional test suites | 01:58 |
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| devananda | jogo: nova functionally depends on keystone -- they should cogate. but Nova actually depends also on python-keystoneclient. | 01:58 |
| jogo | they have a one way dependency on the respective servers (and a few libraries ... but those are libraries) | 01:59 |
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| devananda | jogo: between any two services which have a one-way or mutual dependency, the client libs are PART of that dependency | 01:59 |
| jogo | devananda: hmm yeah nova depends on keystone via keystoneclient | 02:00 |
| devananda | jogo: i think the answer is we move towards more and more projects doing smaller versioned releases | 02:00 |
| jogo | or is it now keystonemiddleware | 02:00 |
| devananda | jogo: it's both | 02:00 |
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| jogo | what does it use keystoneclient for? | 02:01 |
| jogo | git grep shows nothing | 02:01 |
| devananda | oh. maybe not? | 02:01 |
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| devananda | requirements.txt:python-keystoneclient>=0.10.0 | 02:02 |
| jogo | I am about to delete that | 02:02 |
| jogo | so if you can make a graph of all this | 02:02 |
| jogo | dependencies that is, I think some of these answers become easier | 02:02 |
| jogo | maybe just a graph of a few projects | 02:02 |
| devananda | jogo: lines 64-84 | 02:03 |
| devananda | jogo: also look at the pictures linked at the top of the etherpad :-D | 02:03 |
| jogo | a computer generated graph | 02:03 |
| devananda | heh heh heh | 02:03 |
| jogo | or something machine readable | 02:03 |
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| devananda | jogo: so also, some of these are optional, and that bit is important | 02:04 |
| jogo | yeah that should be modelable | 02:04 |
| jogo | how would you graph: nova,novalcient,keystone,keystoneclient,cinder,cinderclient lets say | 02:05 |
| devananda | eg, I'd consider a nova<->cinder relationship to be optional on Nova's side and non-optional on Cinder's side | 02:05 |
| jogo | right | 02:05 |
| devananda | yup | 02:05 |
| jogo | but there is also a cinderclient in the middle of that | 02:05 |
| jogo | somewhere | 02:05 |
| devananda | nova does not depend on cinder for its functional tests | 02:05 |
| devananda | EXCEPT for the nova-volume functional tests | 02:05 |
| jogo | well nova does not have functional tests yet | 02:05 |
| devananda | s/does/would/ | 02:05 |
| jogo | so lets hold off on mapping tests for a second | 02:05 |
| devananda | it's not a map of the tests we have today | 02:06 |
| devananda | it's a map of the functional dependencies between projects | 02:06 |
| jogo | just how do you map the service interactions | 02:06 |
| devananda | which informs us what we need to test | 02:06 |
| jogo | cinder REQUIRES nova | 02:07 |
| devananda | exactly | 02:07 |
| devananda | one directional requirement | 02:07 |
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| devananda | one direction is optional | 02:07 |
| devananda | and IMHO, Nova should have the right to choose whether or not they want to co-gate with cinder | 02:07 |
| jogo | nova CAN-USE Cinder via cinderclient | 02:07 |
| devananda | they probably would | 02:07 |
| devananda | and THAT would make cinder become part of the integrated gate | 02:08 |
| jogo | devananda: where does cinderclient fit in? | 02:08 |
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| jogo | that is what I want to know | 02:08 |
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| devananda | I think nova -> cinderclient -> cinder | 02:10 |
| devananda | ... I think | 02:10 |
| devananda | so right now, we semver all the clients | 02:11 |
| devananda | but we don't semver the server projects | 02:11 |
| devananda | whcih makes that awkward | 02:11 |
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| jogo | well in *theory* we just care about API versions | 02:11 |
| devananda | heh | 02:11 |
| devananda | totally not what we *actuall* do | 02:11 |
| jogo | if that worked, it makes things better | 02:11 |
| jogo | we should push for that | 02:12 |
| devananda | we develop features in project A which depend on tip of project B (and its client lib) | 02:12 |
| devananda | and so project B releases micro versions of its client lib to satisfy project A | 02:12 |
| devananda | today ^ | 02:12 |
| jogo | well we use trunk clients | 02:12 |
| jogo | but I agree that what you are saying is how we *should* do it | 02:13 |
| devananda | keystonemiddleware? | 02:13 |
| jogo | hmm not sure | 02:13 |
| jogo | check pip freeze | 02:13 |
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| jogo | keystonemiddleware==1.2.1.dev2.gb99291c | 02:14 |
| jogo | odd | 02:14 |
| devananda | right | 02:14 |
| jogo | versus -e git+https://git.openstack.org/openstack/python-neutronclient@fa5642f1550bc8f818c1686c40edbaf3672d356a#egg=python_neutronclient-master | 02:14 |
| jogo | neutronclient | 02:14 |
| devananda | oh, so unit tests depend on pip | 02:14 |
| devananda | but functional tests seem not to | 02:14 |
| jogo | that is taken from devstack | 02:14 |
| devananda | mordred says that devstack testing with pip installs of clients is on their todo list | 02:15 |
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| jogo | devananda: we do pip install today | 02:16 |
| jogo | just from trunk | 02:16 |
| jogo | but yeah | 02:16 |
| jogo | you mean from releases | 02:16 |
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| jogo | so see the bottom of your etherpad | 02:16 |
| devananda | yea | 02:17 |
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| jogo | yup | 02:18 |
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| jogo | cinder requires nova in another way though | 02:19 |
| jogo | not sure how to model that | 02:19 |
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| jogo | cinder needs nova to set up the server and attach the volume | 02:20 |
| devananda | right | 02:20 |
| jogo | that last line is too general | 02:20 |
| jogo | I think that is a transitive property | 02:20 |
| jogo | ring0 should appear from the other things | 02:21 |
| devananda | it does | 02:21 |
| devananda | cinder is not part of ring0 | 02:21 |
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| jogo | so that looks pretty good I think | 02:28 |
| jogo | devananda: I think that sums up our dependency graph pretty well | 02:29 |
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| devananda | jogo: are you modeling both depends-on and requires? | 02:30 |
| devananda | if not, we have some duplication | 02:30 |
| jogo | I am treating them as separate things | 02:30 |
| jogo | requires should have a 'through' clause | 02:31 |
| jogo | requires is I need to talk to keystone via the keystonemiddleware | 02:31 |
| devananda | k | 02:31 |
| jogo | depends-on is: I am cinder and the thing I produce isn't useful without nova | 02:31 |
| jogo | but I don't talk to it to do things for me | 02:31 |
| jogo | as a user I need need to create the volume first | 02:32 |
| jogo | and then tell cinder to attach it | 02:32 |
| jogo | cinder doesn't require nova to do that | 02:32 |
| jogo | but it depends on nova to allow the user to do that | 02:32 |
| devananda | right | 02:32 |
| jogo | so trove REQUIRES nova I think | 02:33 |
| jogo | as it talks to nova via novaclient to do things | 02:33 |
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| devananda | jogo: so we could probably model most of this by scraping requirements.txt files from all the projects | 02:36 |
| devananda | jogo: i think there'll be a few exceptions (like nova not requiring ironicclient) | 02:36 |
| jogo | hmm maybe | 02:36 |
| jogo | although those files maybe out of date as we just saw | 02:36 |
| devananda | about to get a braindump from mordred | 02:37 |
| jogo | devananda: oh fun | 02:37 |
| jogo | devananda: in the etherpad? | 02:37 |
| mordred | devananda, jogo: http://paste.openstack.org/show/117944/ | 02:37 |
| jogo | mordred: nice | 02:38 |
| devananda | yup. close. it doesn't show optional things, like nova-cinder, as optional | 02:38 |
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| devananda | but it's a good start | 02:38 |
| devananda | ok, gonna run and get food | 02:38 |
| jogo | we cannot infer DEPENDS-ON from from requirements though | 02:38 |
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| mordred | devananda, jogo: for f in $(find . -maxdepth 2 -type f -name requirements.txt) ; do dirname $f; grep python.*client $f; done | 02:39 |
| mordred | fwiw | 02:39 |
| mordred | jogo: you can't - BUT - it's a starting place | 02:39 |
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| jogo | mordred: yeah | 02:41 |
| jogo | now to figure out how to graph that | 02:41 |
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| jogo | mordred: I have a graph I think | 03:07 |
| jogo | devananda mordred: nova glance keystone | 03:09 |
| jogo | http://i.imgur.com/fXfRl8S.png | 03:09 |
| jogo | code: http://paste.openstack.org/show/117954 | 03:09 |
| morganfainberg | jogo, whats that graph of? | 03:09 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: see bottom of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/in-pursuit-of-a-new-taxonomy | 03:09 |
| morganfainberg | aha ty | 03:09 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: devananda and I have been playing around with modeling dependencies | 03:09 |
| morganfainberg | jogo, cool | 03:10 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: I think it will be easier to reason about things if we have a pretty graph | 03:12 |
| morganfainberg | jogo, ++ | 03:12 |
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| jogo | devananda: got it working | 04:21 |
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| jogo | devananda morganfainberg; https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml | 04:22 |
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| jogo | creates http://i.imgur.com/o8uuid1.png | 04:23 |
| jogo | mordred: ^ | 04:24 |
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| jogo | most recent graph: its getting ugly http://i.imgur.com/zR5sU62.png | 04:30 |
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| nkinder | jogo: the "keystonemiddleware" label seems unnecessary since it's implied by every arrow that points to keystone, right? | 04:33 |
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| nkinder | jogo: it will still be ugly, but removing those might clean it up a bit :) | 04:34 |
| jogo | nkinder: yup | 04:35 |
| jogo | just removed them before I saw your comment | 04:35 |
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| jogo | nkinder: http://i.imgur.com/D7oiUbN.png | 04:36 |
| nkinder | jogo: you have less wavy lines at least :) | 04:36 |
| jogo | yup | 04:36 |
| morganfainberg | jogo is there a max # of lines you have set? | 04:37 |
| morganfainberg | noticed some of the lines aren't drawn on your graph | 04:37 |
| morganfainberg | based on the yaml | 04:38 |
| jogo | such as? | 04:38 |
| morganfainberg | whoopse misread the yaml | 04:38 |
| morganfainberg | nvm | 04:38 |
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| morganfainberg | you do have swift and ironic in there twice though :P | 04:39 |
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| morganfainberg | cool to see it graphed out like that | 04:39 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: fixed it | 04:40 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: yeah | 04:40 |
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| morganfainberg | jogo, i *think* swift CANUSE keystone, but not sure that is relevant on this graph. | 04:40 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: you are correct | 04:41 |
| jogo | we might as well include all links | 04:41 |
| morganfainberg | jogo, whelp, totally digging the graph. | 04:41 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: my understanding is that it can use keystone, or it can use swauth | 04:41 |
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| morganfainberg | jogo, def should help with conversations | 04:41 |
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| nkinder | +1 The graph is cool | 04:41 |
| jogo | nkinder: right so CANUSE should do it | 04:41 |
| morganfainberg | but i think it's something not keystonemiddleware | 04:42 |
| morganfainberg | something swift specific | 04:42 |
| * morganfainberg really should know this... but its late | 04:42 | |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: swauth == swiftauth AFAIK | 04:42 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, yah | 04:42 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, the keystone side, i think swift can use multiple types of auth | 04:42 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, at once | 04:42 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: yeah the yaml file isn't 100% accurate I bet | 04:42 |
| jogo | but the goal of this was to be able to model all this | 04:43 |
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| morganfainberg | jogo, nice work dude :) | 04:43 |
| jogo | I am calling it quits for the night as I haven't really had dinner yet | 04:43 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: pull requests are welcome :) | 04:43 |
| morganfainberg | hah, go eat man | 04:43 |
| jogo | gonna send this to the ML first | 04:43 |
| morganfainberg | jogo, def. i'll add anything i think of via pull req | 04:43 |
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| jogo | anyway o/ | 04:47 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: when you have a minute, let's talk about config options doc bugs | 13:44 |
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| notmyname | ttx: swift 2.2.0 is ready except for the last patch I'll be doing on the plane today. when that lands I'll send you the SHA and we'll have the juno RC | 14:08 |
| ttx | notmyname: sounds good | 14:08 |
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| sdague | any heat folks around? | 14:45 |
| sdague | is update_stack a sync or async call? | 14:45 |
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| jogo | devananda: thanks for the pull request the graph is looking neat http://i.imgur.com/ANyDSg5.png | 15:43 |
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| jogo | sdague: ^ | 15:44 |
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| flashgordon | mordred: ^ pretty pictures | 15:45 |
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| sdague | trove hard requires neutron? | 15:46 |
| flashgordon | sdague: not sure about the data in that TBH, devananda did a bunch and its hard to figure out what things actually | 15:46 |
| sdague | so the problem with graphviz is that it doesn't really spatially group things | 15:46 |
| flashgordon | are | 15:46 |
| flashgordon | sdague: we are pretending nova-network doesn't exist as well | 15:46 |
| sdague | ok | 15:47 |
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| flashgordon | if we can get better data, hopefully this can be useful for sorting out testing and groupings/layers etc | 15:48 |
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| flashgordon | flaper87: trying to map how OpenStack services are related, maybe you have some answers for a few https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml | 15:49 |
| flaper87 | flashgordon: looking | 15:49 |
| mordred | sdague: yah - we're starting with inferred relationships due to client libs and then expanding with brains | 15:49 |
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| flashgordon | flaper87: I was thinking you may know about zaqar and glance | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | flashgordon: yeah, already adding some | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | :) | 15:50 |
| flashgordon | mordred: oh I should add data from your paste from last night | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | wait for the PR | 15:50 |
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| mordred | flaper87: what's read arrows? | 15:51 |
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| flashgordon | mordred: red arrows are depends on | 15:51 |
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| mordred | flashgordon: what are black then? | 15:52 |
| mordred | I get that grey is optional :) | 15:52 |
| flashgordon | flaper87: as in cinder depends on nova (not just by directly talking to the REST API via the pythonclient) but by needing nova to talk to it to do some things | 15:52 |
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| mordred | flashgordon: gotcha | 15:53 |
| flashgordon | mordred: here is the key: https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack | 15:54 |
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| flashgordon | I guess a better way to think of depends on is, where the dependent service must be available to the user | 15:54 |
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| flashgordon | while requires means if X REQUIRES Y, Y must be available to X | 15:55 |
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| flashgordon | mordred: hopefully we can make testing rules based on a graph like this. for example things that have a depend-on relationship should be co-gated | 15:58 |
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| flashgordon | while things that nothing requires or even can-use should not be co-gated (heat, horizon) | 15:59 |
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| flaper87 | flashgordon: PR your way | 16:01 |
| flaper87 | flashgordon: https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/pull/2 | 16:01 |
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| mordred | flaper87: have you seen deva's and my original strawman for that? | 16:03 |
| mordred | gah | 16:03 |
| mordred | flaper87: sorry, that was supposed to be flashgordon ^^ | 16:03 |
| mordred | flashgordon: in short - I agree with you ... although I think there are some areas where we need to apply judgement on top of the logic | 16:04 |
| flaper87 | mordred: you meant flashgordon ? :D | 16:05 |
| flashgordon | mordred: I saw a bit but I ignored it since it was hand drawn | 16:05 |
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| flashgordon | cinder can use glance | 16:06 |
| flashgordon | and glance can use cinder? | 16:06 |
| flashgordon | that is fun | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | flashgordon: yup | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | flashgordon: to be fair, as of now, glance can barely use cinder | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | but it can | 16:07 |
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| flashgordon | flaper87: here is the latest http://i.imgur.com/y8zmNIM.png | 16:09 |
| * flaper87 clicks | 16:09 | |
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| flashgordon | mordred: things are starting to look really complex, it turns out placement in graph layout is a really hard problem | 16:09 |
| * flaper87 wonders what would happen if keystone would suddenly implode and dissapear | 16:09 | |
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| flashgordon | flaper87: hehe yeah | 16:10 |
| flashgordon | how does the cinder glance loop work? | 16:10 |
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| flaper87 | flashgordon: it's not related. Cinder can use glance to create volumes from images | 16:11 |
| flaper87 | and glance can retrieve images from volumes | 16:11 |
| flaper87 | "not related in terms of feature/task/actions/whatever"* | 16:12 |
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| flaper87 | mmh, trove requires swift. interesting | 16:13 |
| flaper87 | wait, why? | 16:14 |
| flaper87 | OMG, that's news to me | 16:14 |
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| clarkb | backups | 16:16 |
| flashgordon | flaper87: it may be a can-use | 16:16 |
| flashgordon | not sure | 16:16 |
| flashgordon | we need a trove person to say | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | iccha: ^ ? | 16:16 |
| clarkb | its for db dump backup storage | 16:16 |
| * dimsum_ notes that flashgordon loves graphs | 16:17 | |
| flaper87 | iccha: is the dependency between trove and swift optional? | 16:17 |
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| clarkb | I would say that is a relatively strong requirement | 16:17 |
| flashgordon | dimsum_: I do | 16:17 |
| flashgordon | dimsum_: but in this case I like the YAML better https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml | 16:18 |
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| dimsum_ | flashgordon: i was chewing on using the config files in different projects to generate the relation, this is better! | 16:20 |
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| flashgordon | dimsum_: we don't have all the data that we need stored in machine readable formats yet | 16:21 |
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| flashgordon | requires vs. can use etc | 16:22 |
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| dimsum_ | yep | 16:22 |
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| dimsum_ | flashgordon: typo alert in the yaml keystonemiddleware | 16:23 |
| mordred | flashgordon: it requires | 16:23 |
| mordred | flashgordon: trove requires swift | 16:23 |
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| flaper87 | mordred: to do what? | 16:24 |
| flaper87 | I should probably read the docs | 16:24 |
| clarkb | db backups... | 16:25 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: ah, mmh | 16:25 |
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| mordred | it's not optional - if you want to backups, you swift | 16:26 |
| flashgordon | mordred: requires it is | 16:27 |
| flashgordon | eglynn_: ping | 16:27 |
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| flashgordon | we are missing data for ceilometer http://i.imgur.com/y8zmNIM.png https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml | 16:28 |
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| clarkb | flashgordon flaper87 a better output format may be something like a diagram of overlapping sets | 16:31 |
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| clarkb | that conveys transitive and common deps | 16:31 |
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| flashgordon | clarkb: want to give that a try? | 16:33 |
| flashgordon | clarkb: I am not sure how to do that | 16:33 |
| clarkb | me either :) | 16:33 |
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| flashgordon | clarkb: I think there are some tools that may generate that data but not sure | 16:34 |
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| flashgordon | clarkb: least we don't have too many loops | 16:35 |
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| iccha | flaper87: we store our backups in swift | 16:42 |
| iccha | what clarkb and modred said | 16:42 |
| flaper87 | iccha: yeah, I just found out. thanks :) | 16:42 |
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| _Joshua__ | another simple question. how do i create a vm that boots off the network (pxe boot). i am using icehouse. | 17:15 |
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| rodrigods | me and vsilva were trying to add some checks in the setUpClass from a test in keystoneclient. It seems to be never called. Does anyone know how to fix it, or have better ideas? You can check the current state of the review here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123619/ | 19:15 |
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| chmouel | reed: i think you forgot to add the subtitle to the osreaction picture http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/10/openstack-community-weekly-newsletter-sep-26-oct-3/ which may be out of context about the end which give information abotu the newsletter | 23:43 |
| reed | chmouel, ? let me check | 23:43 |
| reed | got messed up | 23:44 |
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| reed | chmouel, thanks, I think I fixed it now | 23:46 |
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| reed | chmouel, great pic as usual, makes me giggle every friday :) | 23:47 |
| chmouel | hehheh, glad you like it :) | 23:47 |
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| chmouel | reed: i was thinking i will be running out of ideas but it keeps going | 23:47 |
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| reed | yeah, it's great :) | 23:48 |
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