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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/governance: Revisit list of governed neutron projects https://review.openstack.org/392010 | 02:09 |
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| ecksun | could someone help me out with my change: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/336276/ I do not understand what I have broken | 09:31 |
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| mkletzan | ecksun: Just a guess, but shouldn't there be a real address in the <registry><url> instead of example.org? | 09:38 |
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| ecksun | I dont think its actually my fault tbh :P | 09:38 |
| ecksun | check out the build log: http://logs.openstack.org/76/336276/6/check/gate-jenkins-job-builder-docs-ubuntu-xenial/04df978/console.html | 09:39 |
| ecksun | its complaining about dependencies, yet I haven't changed any | 09:39 |
| ecksun | also, isn't example.org a real adress? | 09:39 |
| mkletzan | I remember I had to restart some tests sometimes, but this doesn't look like that problem either | 09:40 |
| ecksun | I'm not familiar enough with your review process (nor how git review works) to debug this thoroughly | 09:40 |
| ecksun | How can I restart the tests? | 09:40 |
| mkletzan | example.org is, but it's not wildcarded, so whatever.example.org isn't =) | 09:41 |
| ecksun | really? | 09:41 |
| mkletzan | I haven't sent a patch for a long time, so I don't remember the thing you had to write to the comments. | 09:41 |
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| ecksun | okay | 09:41 |
| mkletzan | well, try clicking on the link you got there. It doesn't say "can't connect", it says "server not found" (at least for me) | 09:42 |
| mkletzan | but you're right, that's probably not the problem =) | 09:42 |
| ecksun | you mean the one to console.html? | 09:42 |
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| ecksun | hmm, actually, I didn't realize that before, but I can't install that dependency locally either, thats good to know | 09:47 |
| mkletzan | the sphinxcontrib-programoutput looks like unmaintained and removed from pip | 09:48 |
| ecksun | yeah | 09:48 |
| ecksun | it seems to have been discussed previously as well: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/#openstack-infra/#openstack-infra.2013-09-10.log.html | 09:48 |
| ecksun | but thats quite a while ago :D | 09:48 |
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| mkletzan | maybe the same problem is there for other tests | 09:54 |
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| ecksun | yes, could be, at least it affects all tests on that change as well as my tests locally, Im not sure how I can check other tests as well | 09:56 |
| mkletzan | ecksun: Looks like it could be used in more places, maybe some other files in [openstack-infra/system-config.git] /modules/openstack_project/files/jenkins_job_builder/config/ | 09:56 |
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| ecksun | I dont follow, what is used in more places? the dependency? | 09:57 |
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| mkletzan | yeah, the mirror selecting thing. | 09:58 |
| mkletzan | but as I said, just guessing ;) | 09:58 |
| ecksun | aha, okay | 09:58 |
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| ecksun | so you figured out how to rerun the tests? :) | 10:07 |
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| mkletzan | I think it was "recheck", we'll see, but feel free to ask someone else about the problems | 10:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jim Rollenhagen proposed openstack/governance: Add "servant leadership" to principles https://review.openstack.org/390864 | 11:39 |
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| dims | ilyashakhat : fyi, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/release-job-failures/2016-November/000269.html | 12:06 |
| dims | ilyashakhat : from the tag for os-faults... http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/os-faults/ | 12:06 |
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| ilyashakhat | dims: thx! | 12:12 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, dims, flaper87 can one of you pull the trigger on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391678/ | 14:24 |
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| dims | ayoung : looks good to me | 14:26 |
| ayoung | dims, thanks. I'd rather get it into stable than carry it in a patch. | 14:26 |
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| notmyname | mwhahaha: EmilienM: just catching up on IRC buffer playback and saw your comments in the puppet meeting. how is swift "the weird one" for not having a requirement on oslo messaging? | 15:33 |
| notmyname | it's comments like that which perpetuate the false perceptiont hat swift is not part of openstack or trying to be gratuitously different in some way | 15:34 |
| mwhahaha | it's about patterns and inconsistencies | 15:34 |
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| mwhahaha | swift being one of the first does not follow similar patterns to most other openstack services | 15:35 |
| mwhahaha | it's not about not being part of openstack, it's just a comment on consistency | 15:35 |
| mwhahaha | for us we have 40ish modules | 15:35 |
| mwhahaha | and swift does things differently | 15:35 |
| mwhahaha | between oslo messaging, keystone middleware, memcache | 15:36 |
| mwhahaha | there are a number of distinct differences as to how to configure swift vs everything else | 15:36 |
| notmyname | swift doesn't have a use case for oslo messaging. we happily use keystone, and I'm not sure what you're referring to with memcache. but this idea that swift is trying to reject what "everything else" is doing is a perception I've been fighting against for 5+ years now | 15:37 |
| notmyname | please, let's work together to figure out a common solution. if you've got a place where oslo messaging would be awesome for swift, let's talk about it | 15:37 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: that's fine, but there are little things that could be done to make it more consistent from a configuration standpoint | 15:38 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: i'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, i'm making an comment as an outsider who has to consume what is developed | 15:38 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: don't take it as an attack, take it as an observation that to do X, i must do it differently for swift | 15:39 |
| notmyname | yep, definitely. and the swift community is trying to work through some of those (including quite a few conversations last week in barca). | 15:39 |
| notmyname | yeah, I understand it wasn't an attack :-) | 15:39 |
| mwhahaha | i honestly don't care if swift uses oslo messaging | 15:39 |
| mwhahaha | it's just one of those things that when we go update all the modules that do support oslo messaging, we just have to be mindful that swift does not | 15:40 |
| notmyname | I'm rather sensitive to these things, though, since the small comments here and there continue to perpetuate what I consider falsehood about the swift community, and this same misperception has caused the swift team a huge amount of trouble | 15:40 |
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| mwhahaha | notmyname: also our swift module does not fall into the same patterns as everything else and is woefully in need of attention. so it wasn't necessarily a comment on upstream swift | 15:41 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: so you also have to remember context | 15:41 |
| notmyname | swift isn't the only one that's not using oslo messaging, right? and I'm very honestly curious about what extra work that's causing you (which what you just referenced). is there something that is causing problems because you don't have to do anything with swift if you have to do something with oslo messaging? | 15:41 |
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| mwhahaha | notmyname: the backstory is oslo messaging has deprecated the rabbit_* connection params in favor of default/transport_url. so we need to go do all of that deprecation and updates to all of our modules | 15:42 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: so every module needs a deprecation notice and support for transport_url, it's not a problem with swift if we don't have to make that chance | 15:43 |
| mwhahaha | notmyname: like i said it's a consistency thing, we have to do this work 39 times instead of 40 | 15:44 |
| mwhahaha | it's not necessarily extra work and in this case means less work | 15:44 |
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| mwhahaha | but is something that we have to be conscious of | 15:44 |
| notmyname | yep, I get it :-) | 15:44 |
| mwhahaha | and from an end user standpoint they to would need to know that for 39 services I do it this way and for 2 services I do it this way | 15:44 |
| mwhahaha | -^ that's a larger UX consistency problem across services | 15:45 |
| notmyname | what is the "it" in that last case? | 15:45 |
| mwhahaha | when you configure rabbit host information in the config file using DEFAULT/transport_url vs */rabbit_* | 15:45 |
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| mwhahaha | specifically it used to be rabbit_{host,hosts,password,port,userid,rabbit_virtual_host}. now it's up to the operator to just configure a single url for the configuration. | 15:47 |
| mwhahaha | so there's some advantages to using things like oslo messaging in the services because then you get a consistent way to configure the same thing across all the services. so it would be the same pattern for all services instead of just most. But if there's a performance penalty or whatever that's fine but it would still be beneficial to provide the same | 15:49 |
| mwhahaha | configuration directives | 15:49 |
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| mwhahaha | from my memory I believe swift parses memcache servers differently due to a different memcache client | 15:50 |
| notmyname | yeah, that seems to make sense | 15:50 |
| mwhahaha | as someone who deals with configuration management day in and day out, consistency makes my life easier and is my preference | 15:50 |
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| mwhahaha | so we also try and provide that to the consumers of our modules, so end up trying to be a middle man | 15:51 |
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| EmilienM | notmyname: I think our use-case was the ceilometer middleware in swift | 15:52 |
| * EmilienM catching up backlog | 15:52 | |
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| EmilienM | notmyname: I think the comment in our meeting was more "from a deployment perspective, it makes things hard when projects don't use Oslo" | 15:54 |
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| notmyname | EmilienM: I totally get the perspective that mwhahaha brings. but the specific comment was on oslo messaging. (there isn't a single thing that is oslo) | 15:55 |
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| mwhahaha | it was in relation to oslo messaging this time, but like i said there are distinct differences that we've hit over time which lead to an off the hand remark about swift being different. which wasn't meant to be a positive or negative comment, just a statement of current status | 15:56 |
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| EmilienM | notmyname: there is also oslo.config, which is something some projects still don't use | 16:04 |
| notmyname | we had some good conversations about that last week. there are some challenges, but we're gathering some more info. we might be able to use it | 16:05 |
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| EmilienM | notmyname: at some point, it's great to stay open for feedback from OpenStack operators, that deploy things outside devstack and many times I've heard some projects are more difficult to deploy than others. There is nothing to do with Swift itself, we just think some part of Swift deployment could be improved. Config files & Messaging params included | 16:07 |
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| notmyname | EmilienM: config files are a good topic. messaging isn't. there isn't any message queueing in swift | 16:08 |
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| notmyname | EmilienM: but yeah, I agree with you | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | notmyname: I'm also curious to know why swift doesn't use oslo.log, oslo.service, and maybe more | 16:10 |
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| notmyname | EmilienM: what is oslo.service? | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | notmyname: I often get the feedback that swift logs are not like other OpenStack logs | 16:10 |
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| EmilienM | "oslo.service provides a framework for defining new long-running services using the patterns established by other OpenStack applications. It also includes utilities long-running applications might need for working with SSL or WSGI, performing periodic operations, interacting with systemd, etc." | 16:11 |
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| EmilienM | source: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.service | 16:11 |
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| notmyname | EmilienM: like with config, we had some interesting discussions about logging last week, too. config would have to come first. in both cases, the concern is one over migration strategies. and that's what we're currently investigating | 16:14 |
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| EmilienM | notmyname: good news then | 16:15 |
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| notmyname | we had two ops feedback sessions last week and logs were a big topic. but zero people in the room were asking for log-to-file (as opposed to syslog) or different access log formats | 16:16 |
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| notmyname | this is my struggle: I hear from openstack oslo maintainers that it's the worst thing ever that swift isn't using oslo.logging. yet I've never had deployers ask for that at an ops feedback session at a summit | 16:17 |
| clarkb | notmyname: any possibility selection bias is involved? swift ops already have the exsting stuff working so don't care | 16:18 |
| notmyname | but what I said still stands. we're looking in to it | 16:18 |
| clarkb | anyone coming from the rest of openstack land may possibly care because they have that working | 16:18 |
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| notmyname | clarkb: definitely a possibility. yet I can only prioritize based on the feedback I'm getting from users. | 16:19 |
| clarkb | just something to keep in mind, I know a lot of ops stop caring once a particular issue is resolved. That doesn't make the situation good for them or future users | 16:20 |
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| notmyname | I learned some new things about config and logging last week that corrected some old info I had. so I'm excited about that | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | fungi: boy I sure wish you would've been able to attend that session last week! :) | 17:19 |
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| thingee | jgriffith +1 | 17:19 |
| thingee | jgriffith he was doing keynote rehearsals tho. | 17:20 |
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| fungi | yeah, sorry about that | 17:25 |
| fungi | i was pretty torn up about having to miss it | 17:25 |
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| jgriffith | fungi: nahh, totally understandable; just wanted to let you know I really appreciate your input on the ML | 17:26 |
| fungi | luckily summit sessions are not the end of the conversation, merely the beginning ;) | 17:26 |
| fungi | jgriffith: thanks! | 17:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance: remove expired entries for extra-atcs https://review.openstack.org/388170 | 18:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance: add release management response to goal-remove-incubated-oslo-code https://review.openstack.org/392282 | 19:05 |
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| stevemar | dhellmann: i'll actually be away for this tc meeting, leaving a bit early today | 19:17 |
| stevemar | ttx: ^ | 19:17 |
| dhellmann | stevemar : ack, I suspect we will have a few folks out this week | 19:17 |
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| ttx | stevemar: noted | 19:20 |
| ttx | we might just not reach quorum and get an hour back :) | 19:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steve Martinelli proposed openstack/governance: Acknowledge remove-incubated-oslo-code for keystone https://review.openstack.org/392293 | 19:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Overdue update of mission statement in charter https://review.openstack.org/389611 | 20:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Update QA's extra-atc https://review.openstack.org/389324 | 20:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Tighten up langauge in "Contribution Is Our Currency" https://review.openstack.org/387370 | 20:31 |
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| cdent | EmilienM: where you going on your road trip? | 21:08 |
| EmilienM | cdent: from New Orleans to Phili | 21:09 |
| EmilienM | along the coast | 21:09 |
| EmilienM | it's a 4700km drive in 14 days | 21:09 |
| cdent | awesome | 21:09 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: last year we did Vancouver to Montreal, 5500 km in 11 days :) | 21:09 |
| jroll | nice, road trips are the best \o/ | 21:10 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: and next year, we'll do Canadian Maritimes | 21:10 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: I'll go ping beagles in Newfoundland :) | 21:11 |
| cdent | I'm jealous | 21:11 |
| EmilienM | cdent: ah! come with us ;-) | 21:12 |
| cdent | next time | 21:13 |
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| mordred | notmyname: fwiw, I have gotten ops feedback at ops summits and also just at other sessions about the oslo.logging thing. why that feedback isn't given to you, I have _no_ idea - my usual response is "please go tell the swift team if this is a problem for you" | 22:48 |
| mordred | notmyname: that said - it sounds like there were some great conversatoins last week! | 22:48 |
| notmyname | mordred: I agree with all of that :-) | 22:49 |
| mordred | notmyname: also - other than my t-shirt (thank you) I am sad we did not manage to find each other to chat :( | 22:49 |
| mordred | it's been entirely too long | 22:50 |
| notmyname | I was thinking the same thing. I was surprised i didn't see you except for that brief moment | 22:50 |
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| mordred | notmyname: I cannot believe you didn't magically make your way to any of the places I did not broadly communicate I was going to be at given that I did not have a phone with network connectivity that I could use to communicate such things | 22:51 |
| mordred | notmyname: it really makes me doubt that you actually have ESP | 22:52 |
| notmyname | how did you of all people not have a phone data plan in spain? you travel more than anyone I know, probably | 22:52 |
| mordred | well.... | 22:53 |
| mordred | a couple of weeks ago I left my phone in a cab in berlin | 22:53 |
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| notmyname | yikes | 22:54 |
| mordred | but the new google pixel phone didn't arrive until I was in barcelona, becaue it just came out | 22:54 |
| mordred | and I'm on google fi | 22:54 |
| mordred | so my fi sim in an old oneplus one 'works' | 22:54 |
| mordred | but not so much overseas | 22:54 |
| notmyname | ah | 22:54 |
| mordred | it was .... well, it was some adjectiev | 22:54 |
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| mordred | I now once again have a real phone | 22:54 |
| notmyname | I left my phone in the cab from the airport when i got to bcn. got out, he drove off, I patted my pocket to text the person i was meeting (to let me in the apartment), and no phone. I kinda panicked and then the cab drove back up and got out and handed me my phone | 22:55 |
| mordred | oh that's so nice! | 22:55 |
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| notmyname | the week would have been much different if that hadn't happened :-) | 22:56 |
| mordred | I had google send a message to the lock screen of the phone ... and after that watched the phone on the location tracker go to someone's house | 22:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/governance: Revisit list of governed neutron projects https://review.openstack.org/392010 | 23:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/governance: Add neutron-pd-driver to list of retired projects https://review.openstack.org/392330 | 23:08 |
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