| *** xiaofandh12 has quit IRC | 00:02 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 00:05 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 00:09 | |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 00:09 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** gouthamr has joined #openstack-dev | 00:12 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 00:27 | |
| *** ssbarnea has quit IRC | 00:27 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 00:32 | |
| *** charcol-v2 has joined #openstack-dev | 00:32 | |
| *** charcol has quit IRC | 00:35 | |
| *** spartacloud has joined #openstack-dev | 00:41 | |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 00:45 | |
| *** spartacloud has quit IRC | 00:46 | |
| *** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-dev | 00:53 | |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 00:54 | |
| *** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-dev | 00:54 | |
| *** salv-orl_ has quit IRC | 00:55 | |
| *** markvoelker has joined #openstack-dev | 00:56 | |
| *** dsariel has quit IRC | 01:02 | |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 01:03 | |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 01:04 | |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 01:04 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 01:08 | |
| *** tovin07 has joined #openstack-dev | 01:08 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has joined #openstack-dev | 01:10 | |
| *** gpj89 has joined #openstack-dev | 01:11 | |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 01:13 | |
| *** erlon has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 01:21 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has quit IRC | 01:21 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has joined #openstack-dev | 01:25 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has quit IRC | 01:29 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has joined #openstack-dev | 01:29 | |
| *** fragatina has quit IRC | 01:30 | |
| *** fragatina has joined #openstack-dev | 01:31 | |
| *** fragatin_ has joined #openstack-dev | 01:32 | |
| *** fragatina has quit IRC | 01:36 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
| *** charcol-v2 has quit IRC | 01:42 | |
| *** sam_nowitzki has joined #openstack-dev | 01:42 | |
| *** charcol has joined #openstack-dev | 01:47 | |
| *** fragatin_ has quit IRC | 01:59 | |
| *** gongysh has joined #openstack-dev | 02:05 | |
| *** alexismonville has quit IRC | 02:09 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 02:15 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has joined #openstack-dev | 02:36 | |
| *** chigang has joined #openstack-dev | 02:42 | |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 03:00 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 03:05 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 03:06 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 03:08 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 03:10 | |
| *** jaypipes has joined #openstack-dev | 03:14 | |
| *** sree has joined #openstack-dev | 03:51 | |
| *** lathiat_ has quit IRC | 03:53 | |
| *** lathiat has joined #openstack-dev | 03:53 | |
| *** jaypipes has quit IRC | 03:54 | |
| *** nplanel has joined #openstack-dev | 04:09 | |
| *** adriant has quit IRC | 04:20 | |
| *** markvoelker has quit IRC | 04:23 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 04:28 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 04:28 | |
| *** jaypipes has joined #openstack-dev | 04:30 | |
| *** spartacloud has joined #openstack-dev | 04:43 | |
| *** spartacloud has quit IRC | 04:48 | |
| *** chigang has quit IRC | 04:49 | |
| *** psachin has joined #openstack-dev | 04:49 | |
| *** nmathew has joined #openstack-dev | 04:50 | |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-dev | 04:54 | |
| *** vnogin has quit IRC | 04:58 | |
| *** claudiub has joined #openstack-dev | 04:59 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 05:01 | |
| *** ShaneDavidson_ has quit IRC | 05:05 | |
| *** sreenath has joined #openstack-dev | 05:09 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 05:15 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 05:15 | |
| *** markvoelker has joined #openstack-dev | 05:24 | |
| *** markvoelker has quit IRC | 05:29 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 05:29 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 05:32 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 05:34 | |
| *** gpj89 has quit IRC | 05:34 | |
| *** timothyb89 has quit IRC | 05:35 | |
| *** timothyb89 has joined #openstack-dev | 05:35 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 05:37 | |
| *** amotoki_ has joined #openstack-dev | 05:42 | |
| *** psachin has quit IRC | 05:42 | |
| *** ksobkowiak has quit IRC | 05:44 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 05:46 | |
| *** saibarspeis has joined #openstack-dev | 05:50 | |
| *** hichihara has joined #openstack-dev | 05:51 | |
| *** kobis has joined #openstack-dev | 05:54 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 05:55 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 05:55 | |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 05:56 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 05:56 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 05:57 | |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 05:58 | |
| *** sridharg has joined #openstack-dev | 05:58 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 05:58 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 06:00 | |
| *** gouthamr has quit IRC | 06:02 | |
| *** kobis has quit IRC | 06:04 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 06:05 | |
| *** eroux has quit IRC | 06:05 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 06:07 | |
| *** rcernin has joined #openstack-dev | 06:08 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 06:09 | |
| *** abregman has joined #openstack-dev | 06:15 | |
| *** ekuris has joined #openstack-dev | 06:15 | |
| *** dhajare has joined #openstack-dev | 06:22 | |
| *** kornica is now known as kornicameiter | 06:30 | |
| *** kornicameiter is now known as kornicameister | 06:30 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 06:30 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 06:34 | |
| *** charcol-v2 has joined #openstack-dev | 06:35 | |
| *** charcol has quit IRC | 06:37 | |
| *** markvoelker has joined #openstack-dev | 06:44 | |
| *** svinota has joined #openstack-dev | 06:45 | |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 06:49 | |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 06:49 | |
| *** ayogi has joined #openstack-dev | 06:52 | |
| *** salv-orl_ has joined #openstack-dev | 06:53 | |
| *** itzikb has joined #openstack-dev | 06:54 | |
| *** AnilV4 has joined #openstack-dev | 06:55 | |
| *** brault has quit IRC | 06:55 | |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 06:56 | |
| *** pcaruana has joined #openstack-dev | 06:58 | |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 06:59 | |
| *** charcol-v2 has quit IRC | 07:02 | |
| *** pcaruana has quit IRC | 07:05 | |
| *** pcaruana has joined #openstack-dev | 07:06 | |
| *** svinota has quit IRC | 07:12 | |
| *** tesseract has joined #openstack-dev | 07:13 | |
| *** saibarspeis has quit IRC | 07:15 | |
| *** fragatina has joined #openstack-dev | 07:18 | |
| *** dsariel has joined #openstack-dev | 07:20 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
| *** takamatsu has joined #openstack-dev | 07:25 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 07:26 | |
| *** eroux has joined #openstack-dev | 07:27 | |
| *** kobis has joined #openstack-dev | 07:29 | |
| *** kobis has quit IRC | 07:29 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 07:30 | |
| *** jprovazn has joined #openstack-dev | 07:30 | |
| *** ltomasbo|away is now known as ltomasbo | 07:31 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 07:36 | |
| *** fragatina has quit IRC | 07:38 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 07:40 | |
| *** hseipp has joined #openstack-dev | 07:41 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 07:56 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 08:00 | |
| *** slaweq_ has quit IRC | 08:03 | |
| *** brault has joined #openstack-dev | 08:08 | |
| *** slaweq_ has joined #openstack-dev | 08:08 | |
| *** tovin07 has quit IRC | 08:12 | |
| *** tovin07 has joined #openstack-dev | 08:12 | |
| *** karthiks has joined #openstack-dev | 08:16 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 08:16 | |
| *** paramite has joined #openstack-dev | 08:17 | |
| *** eezhova has joined #openstack-dev | 08:18 | |
| *** yuval has joined #openstack-dev | 08:20 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 08:20 | |
| *** eantyshev has left #openstack-dev | 08:26 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 08:26 | |
| *** hichihara has quit IRC | 08:27 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 08:31 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 08:32 | |
| *** bauwser is now known as bauzas | 08:34 | |
| *** nmathew- has joined #openstack-dev | 08:35 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 08:36 | |
| *** nmathew has quit IRC | 08:38 | |
| *** ciprian-barbu has quit IRC | 08:42 | |
| *** fragatina has joined #openstack-dev | 08:46 | |
| *** rwsu has quit IRC | 08:47 | |
| *** jpich has joined #openstack-dev | 08:50 | |
| *** markvoelker_ has joined #openstack-dev | 08:51 | |
| *** svinota has joined #openstack-dev | 08:51 | |
| *** markvoelker has quit IRC | 08:54 | |
| *** snica_away is now known as snica | 08:54 | |
| *** sam_nowitzki has quit IRC | 08:56 | |
| *** zzzeek has quit IRC | 09:00 | |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 09:00 | |
| *** kobis has joined #openstack-dev | 09:00 | |
| *** zzzeek has joined #openstack-dev | 09:00 | |
| *** yamamoto_ has quit IRC | 09:00 | |
| *** shardy has joined #openstack-dev | 09:00 | |
| *** rwsu has joined #openstack-dev | 09:01 | |
| *** sridharg has joined #openstack-dev | 09:03 | |
| *** eezhova has quit IRC | 09:04 | |
| *** kobis has quit IRC | 09:10 | |
| *** sshnaidm|off is now known as sshnaidm | 09:13 | |
| *** e0ne has joined #openstack-dev | 09:13 | |
| *** d0ugal has quit IRC | 09:14 | |
| *** nmathew- has quit IRC | 09:15 | |
| *** bogdando has joined #openstack-dev | 09:15 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 09:21 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 09:21 | |
| *** d0ugal has joined #openstack-dev | 09:26 | |
| *** d0ugal has quit IRC | 09:26 | |
| *** d0ugal has joined #openstack-dev | 09:26 | |
| *** eezhova has joined #openstack-dev | 09:28 | |
| openstackgerrit | Yuval Brik proposed openstack/governance master: karbor: add api-ref link https://review.openstack.org/441833 | 09:29 |
|---|---|---|
| *** akrivoka has joined #openstack-dev | 09:31 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 09:33 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 09:35 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 09:35 | |
| *** sam_nowitzki has joined #openstack-dev | 09:36 | |
| *** athomas has joined #openstack-dev | 09:37 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 09:37 | |
| *** abregman is now known as abregman|mtg | 09:42 | |
| *** abregman|mtg has quit IRC | 09:42 | |
| *** lucas-afk is now known as lucasagomes | 09:43 | |
| *** abregman has joined #openstack-dev | 09:44 | |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 09:47 | |
| *** ssbarnea has joined #openstack-dev | 09:47 | |
| *** sridharg has joined #openstack-dev | 09:49 | |
| *** gmoro has joined #openstack-dev | 09:49 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:51 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:51 | |
| *** sree has quit IRC | 09:52 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:52 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:52 | |
| *** ygbo has joined #openstack-dev | 09:52 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:53 | |
| *** sree has joined #openstack-dev | 09:53 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:53 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:54 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:54 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:54 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:55 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
| *** ababich has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:55 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:56 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:56 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:57 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:57 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:58 | |
| *** electrofelix has joined #openstack-dev | 09:58 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:59 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 09:59 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 09:59 | |
| *** vills_ has joined #openstack-dev | 10:00 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 10:00 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 10:00 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 10:01 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 10:02 | |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 10:02 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 10:02 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 10:02 | |
| *** MattMan has quit IRC | 10:02 | |
| *** MattMan has joined #openstack-dev | 10:03 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 10:03 | |
| *** k4n0 has joined #openstack-dev | 10:03 | |
| *** radhikam has quit IRC | 10:03 | |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 10:04 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 10:08 | |
| *** mdbooth_ is now known as mdbooth | 10:08 | |
| *** john-davidge has joined #openstack-dev | 10:09 | |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-dev | 10:10 | |
| *** athomas has quit IRC | 10:11 | |
| *** vnogin has quit IRC | 10:15 | |
| *** athomas has joined #openstack-dev | 10:18 | |
| *** dalees has quit IRC | 10:19 | |
| *** sdague has joined #openstack-dev | 10:25 | |
| *** Haaibo has joined #openstack-dev | 10:25 | |
| *** dalees has joined #openstack-dev | 10:25 | |
| *** Gk-1wm-su has joined #openstack-dev | 10:26 | |
| *** Gk-1wm-su has quit IRC | 10:27 | |
| *** Gk-1wm-su has joined #openstack-dev | 10:28 | |
| *** abregman has quit IRC | 10:29 | |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add ovsdbapp project https://review.openstack.org/438086 | 10:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add new pynotedb project https://review.openstack.org/438291 | 10:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update email for Cinder PTL https://review.openstack.org/441200 | 10:32 |
| *** owalsh-afk is now known as owalsh | 10:33 | |
| *** openstackgerrit has quit IRC | 10:33 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 10:34 | |
| *** Gk-1wm-su has quit IRC | 10:35 | |
| *** mvk has quit IRC | 10:35 | |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-dev | 10:36 | |
| *** ssbarnea has quit IRC | 10:36 | |
| *** ssbarnea has joined #openstack-dev | 10:37 | |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 10:38 | |
| *** egallen has joined #openstack-dev | 10:39 | |
| *** amotoki_ has quit IRC | 10:40 | |
| *** ciprian-barbu has joined #openstack-dev | 10:41 | |
| *** abregman has joined #openstack-dev | 10:43 | |
| *** dalgaaf has quit IRC | 10:43 | |
| *** dalgaaf has joined #openstack-dev | 10:45 | |
| *** dtantsur|afk is now known as dtantsur | 10:46 | |
| *** kobis has joined #openstack-dev | 10:47 | |
| *** vills_ has quit IRC | 10:52 | |
| *** rraja has joined #openstack-dev | 10:52 | |
| *** cdent has joined #openstack-dev | 10:52 | |
| *** lpetrut has joined #openstack-dev | 10:54 | |
| *** gszasz has joined #openstack-dev | 11:00 | |
| *** nicolasbock has joined #openstack-dev | 11:05 | |
| *** ciprian-barbu has quit IRC | 11:07 | |
| *** mvk has joined #openstack-dev | 11:07 | |
| *** nplanel has quit IRC | 11:12 | |
| *** sdague has quit IRC | 11:13 | |
| *** sdague_ has joined #openstack-dev | 11:14 | |
| *** sdague has joined #openstack-dev | 11:14 | |
| *** sdague has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| *** sdague_ is now known as sdague | 11:16 | |
| *** vills has joined #openstack-dev | 11:17 | |
| *** sam_nowitzki has quit IRC | 11:20 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 11:21 | |
| *** sree has quit IRC | 11:21 | |
| *** gongysh has quit IRC | 11:21 | |
| *** sree has joined #openstack-dev | 11:21 | |
| *** fragatina has quit IRC | 11:22 | |
| *** fragatina has joined #openstack-dev | 11:23 | |
| *** vills has left #openstack-dev | 11:25 | |
| *** sree has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| *** shardy has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| *** shardy has joined #openstack-dev | 11:26 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 11:29 | |
| *** furlongm has quit IRC | 11:32 | |
| *** furlongm has joined #openstack-dev | 11:32 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 11:33 | |
| *** eglynn has joined #openstack-dev | 11:35 | |
| *** yassine has quit IRC | 11:44 | |
| *** ggherdov-___ is now known as ggherdov- | 11:52 | |
| *** gszasz has quit IRC | 11:54 | |
| *** snica is now known as snica_away | 12:00 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 12:01 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 12:01 | |
| *** gszasz has joined #openstack-dev | 12:03 | |
| *** gszasz has quit IRC | 12:03 | |
| *** Jack_I has joined #openstack-dev | 12:06 | |
| *** aysyd has joined #openstack-dev | 12:12 | |
| *** rfolco has joined #openstack-dev | 12:17 | |
| *** snica_away is now known as snica | 12:18 | |
| *** shardy is now known as shardy_lunch | 12:21 | |
| *** nplanel has joined #openstack-dev | 12:26 | |
| *** openstackgerrit has joined #openstack-dev | 12:32 | |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: WIP: Addressing the challenges of a global community https://review.openstack.org/441923 | 12:32 |
| *** gordc has joined #openstack-dev | 12:38 | |
| *** lucasagomes is now known as lucas-hungry | 12:41 | |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 12:43 | |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 12:44 | |
| *** alexismonville has joined #openstack-dev | 12:47 | |
| *** ociuhandu has joined #openstack-dev | 12:48 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 12:49 | |
| *** jamielennox is now known as jamielennox|away | 12:50 | |
| *** yassine has joined #openstack-dev | 12:52 | |
| *** rfolco has quit IRC | 12:52 | |
| *** alexismonville has quit IRC | 12:53 | |
| *** alexismonville has joined #openstack-dev | 12:53 | |
| *** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-dev | 12:53 | |
| *** rfolco has joined #openstack-dev | 12:54 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 12:54 | |
| *** gamado has joined #openstack-dev | 12:55 | |
| *** salv-orl_ has quit IRC | 12:56 | |
| *** shardy_lunch is now known as shardy | 12:56 | |
| sdague | ianychoi: question about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500 | 12:56 |
| *** owalsh is now known as owalsh-afk | 12:58 | |
| *** abregman has quit IRC | 12:59 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 13:00 | |
| *** abregman has joined #openstack-dev | 13:00 | |
| *** kylek3h_ has quit IRC | 13:01 | |
| *** sridharg has joined #openstack-dev | 13:03 | |
| *** abregman is now known as abregman|mtg | 13:03 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 13:04 | |
| *** slaweq_ has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| *** slaweq_ has joined #openstack-dev | 13:10 | |
| *** jkilpatr has joined #openstack-dev | 13:12 | |
| *** AnilV4 has quit IRC | 13:18 | |
| *** steveg_afk has joined #openstack-dev | 13:18 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 13:20 | |
| *** vsaienk01 has quit IRC | 13:23 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 13:25 | |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 13:25 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 13:25 | |
| *** ayogi has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| *** Poornima has joined #openstack-dev | 13:29 | |
| *** abregman|mtg has quit IRC | 13:31 | |
| *** sshnaidm has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 13:35 | |
| *** vladikr has joined #openstack-dev | 13:36 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 13:37 | |
| *** kylek3h has joined #openstack-dev | 13:37 | |
| *** sshnaidm has joined #openstack-dev | 13:38 | |
| *** rcrit has joined #openstack-dev | 13:38 | |
| *** jkilpatr has quit IRC | 13:39 | |
| *** rderose has joined #openstack-dev | 13:40 | |
| *** skazi has quit IRC | 13:41 | |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 13:41 | |
| *** sridharg has joined #openstack-dev | 13:41 | |
| *** abregman|mtg has joined #openstack-dev | 13:44 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 13:47 | |
| *** ansmith has joined #openstack-dev | 13:48 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 13:48 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 13:49 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 13:50 | |
| *** baoli_ has joined #openstack-dev | 13:50 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 13:50 | |
| *** lucas-hungry is now known as lucasagomes | 13:51 | |
| *** baoli_ has quit IRC | 13:51 | |
| *** kgiusti has joined #openstack-dev | 13:53 | |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 13:53 | |
| *** skazi has joined #openstack-dev | 13:54 | |
| *** gszasz has joined #openstack-dev | 13:54 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 13:55 | |
| *** ansmith has quit IRC | 13:55 | |
| *** morazi has joined #openstack-dev | 13:56 | |
| *** owalsh-afk is now known as owalsh | 13:57 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 13:58 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 13:59 | |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 14:01 | |
| *** Poornima has quit IRC | 14:01 | |
| *** eroux has quit IRC | 14:02 | |
| *** saibarspeis has joined #openstack-dev | 14:02 | |
| *** noslzzp has quit IRC | 14:02 | |
| *** morazi has quit IRC | 14:03 | |
| *** noslzzp has joined #openstack-dev | 14:03 | |
| *** abregman|mtg has quit IRC | 14:04 | |
| *** Werz44 has joined #openstack-dev | 14:04 | |
| *** awaugama has joined #openstack-dev | 14:04 | |
| *** jdandrea has joined #openstack-dev | 14:05 | |
| *** jprovazn has quit IRC | 14:05 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 14:06 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 14:06 | |
| *** xyang1 has joined #openstack-dev | 14:09 | |
| *** ansmith has joined #openstack-dev | 14:09 | |
| *** mriedem has quit IRC | 14:09 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 14:10 | |
| *** gongysh has joined #openstack-dev | 14:11 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| *** morazi has joined #openstack-dev | 14:16 | |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 14:18 | |
| *** abregman|mtg has joined #openstack-dev | 14:19 | |
| *** ihrachys has joined #openstack-dev | 14:21 | |
| *** fragatin_ has joined #openstack-dev | 14:23 | |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 14:23 | |
| *** fragatina has quit IRC | 14:23 | |
| *** gouthamr has joined #openstack-dev | 14:25 | |
| *** jcoufal has joined #openstack-dev | 14:25 | |
| ianychoi | sdague, hello I am starting to keep track of your callings on here and -infra channel.. | 14:26 |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 14:27 | |
| *** yuntongjin has joined #openstack-dev | 14:27 | |
| *** makowals has quit IRC | 14:28 | |
| sdague | ianychoi: ok, cool, I posted to the openstack-dev list with a question on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500/ | 14:29 |
| *** makowals has joined #openstack-dev | 14:30 | |
| sdague | mostly because I'd love to get rid of all the supporting infrastructure in the nova tree if the i18n team has decided it isn't needed any more | 14:30 |
| ianychoi | sdague, I am also reading the mailing list.. and yes, I18n team decided not to translate log-level strings. However, I have seen that some companies (e.g., IBM) translate log-level strings. For those cases, leaving _LW(), LE() would be fine I think. | 14:33 |
| sdague | ianychoi: those aren't submitted back upstream? | 14:34 |
| ianychoi | sdague, no - anymore, unless the policy will be changed in future | 14:34 |
| ianychoi | sdague, then would it be beneficial to remove _LW(), _LE() for all upstream development for developers? | 14:35 |
| sdague | the whole point of upstream infrastructure in projects is because of upstream support. The _LE stuff ends up being something that definitely confuses people submitting, and adds a bunch of friction / cruft when moving things around. | 14:35 |
| sdague | ianychoi: yeh, that's basically my question | 14:35 |
| *** yuntongjin has quit IRC | 14:36 | |
| sdague | if the i18n team has declared that traslated logs are not useful, and even at times harmful, we should embrace that and simplify all the upstream code at the same time | 14:36 |
| sdague | because the only reason that was put in was because the i18n team wanted it | 14:37 |
| ianychoi | sdague, I have just thought that most developers agreed to follow _LE, _LW as a convention. | 14:37 |
| sdague | ianychoi: only because i18n team was using it | 14:38 |
| sdague | most developers hate it | 14:38 |
| *** sree has joined #openstack-dev | 14:38 | |
| ianychoi | sdague, Hmm, I have not recognized such things. Question: for such convention discussion, which places would be proper? oslo-18n discussion? | 14:38 |
| sdague | but if the i18n team is not going to use it, then it's extra work for no reason | 14:38 |
| sdague | ianychoi: I think just the openstack-dev mailing list | 14:39 |
| sdague | ianychoi: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113365.html I started a thread here | 14:39 |
| *** yuval has quit IRC | 14:40 | |
| sdague | this impacts the wider community rather significantly. I'm happy taking the lead from the i18n team, but I just want to make sure I understand that the i18n team decided that log translations are not useful, and they would no longer be supporting their translation upstream | 14:41 |
| sdague | because, that means we should stop doing the same in the projects | 14:41 |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 14:41 | |
| *** pnavarro has joined #openstack-dev | 14:42 | |
| ianychoi | sdague, I see. First of all, thanks a lot for your raising, since I thought that the policy (not to translate log-level strings) was already delivered to developers. | 14:42 |
| ianychoi | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#I18n | 14:42 |
| sdague | ianychoi: yeh, I guess that message didn't get passed on. Honestly, I approved the catalog delete, but it wasn't until the tox change that I started to understand what the i18n team was doing here | 14:44 |
| *** lpetrut has quit IRC | 14:44 | |
| *** eharney has joined #openstack-dev | 14:44 | |
| *** xemdetia has joined #openstack-dev | 14:44 | |
| ianychoi | For I18n PTL role, I tried to more communicate with cross project liaison, but unfortunately, the participation of i18n cross-project liaison is relatively low. | 14:44 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm happy to just mark that up to the message got lost. No real blame there. | 14:45 |
| sdague | I just want to ensure we get to the same page now. | 14:45 |
| ianychoi | sdague, yep.. same page in the community is so important | 14:46 |
| sdague | Is the policy about not translating log-level strings written down somewhere for the i18n team? So I can reference it in starting to delete the nova infrastructure? | 14:46 |
| ianychoi | sdague, the message I have found as a written form is http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2016-November/002574.html - as Andreas already shared | 14:48 |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 14:48 | |
| ianychoi | sdague, now it is better for me to specify in I18n contributor guide: https://docs.openstack.org/developer/i18n/ | 14:49 |
| sdague | ianychoi: yeh, I think in the contributor guide would be best | 14:49 |
| sdague | that feels more official than email | 14:49 |
| ianychoi | sdague, and.. one question: are you familiar with oslo.i18n discussion: https://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.i18n/policy.html ? | 14:49 |
| sdague | ianychoi: I was not, but the most recent stuff seems to be Juno there | 14:50 |
| ianychoi | sdague, since _LW, _LE are written in oslo.i18n, it would be nice for me to discuss with oslo team after specifying in I18n contributor guide? | 14:50 |
| sdague | ianychoi: maybe. | 14:51 |
| sdague | At some level, those are just infrastructure | 14:51 |
| sdague | and oslo.i18n having that infrastructure allows different policies to exist | 14:51 |
| sdague | however, the consuming of that by projects ends up being a different thing | 14:51 |
| ianychoi | sdague, I see. Since AJaeger is not here but in #openstack-infra channel, I would like to move on #openstack-infra channel. | 14:52 |
| *** makowals has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| sdague | ianychoi: ok | 14:52 |
| sdague | he mostly has been sending me to you :) | 14:52 |
| *** limao_ has joined #openstack-dev | 14:52 | |
| sdague | but I'm fine with that | 14:52 |
| ianychoi | sdague, I see :) | 14:52 |
| *** xyang1 has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 14:53 | |
| *** spartacloud has joined #openstack-dev | 14:53 | |
| *** xyang1 has joined #openstack-dev | 14:54 | |
| *** jprovazn has joined #openstack-dev | 14:54 | |
| *** makowals has joined #openstack-dev | 14:56 | |
| *** breitz has joined #openstack-dev | 14:56 | |
| *** limao_ has quit IRC | 14:58 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 14:59 | |
| *** itzikb_ has joined #openstack-dev | 15:00 | |
| *** itzikb has quit IRC | 15:00 | |
| dstanek | sdague: ianychoi: in keystone we had lots of issues with the _L* initially. i had to write some complicated hacking rules to help us out http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/tests/hacking/checks.py#n149 | 15:01 |
| *** jaypipes_ has joined #openstack-dev | 15:01 | |
| ianychoi | dstanek, for your case, supporing _LW _LI _LE _LC is too complicated from your implementation on such hacking rules? | 15:03 |
| *** nplanel has quit IRC | 15:05 | |
| *** mriedem has joined #openstack-dev | 15:05 | |
| *** kriskend has joined #openstack-dev | 15:07 | |
| *** saibarspeis has quit IRC | 15:07 | |
| *** spartacloud is now known as zackf | 15:08 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 15:09 | |
| sdague | dstanek: we've got it as well | 15:10 |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 15:10 | |
| *** lpetrut has joined #openstack-dev | 15:10 | |
| sdague | dstanek: but, the point being, the policy on i18n seems to have changed, which means we'd drop all those | 15:10 |
| *** jethro7 has quit IRC | 15:12 | |
| dstanek | sdague: that would be great since it's always a point of confusion | 15:13 |
| sdague | dstanek: agreed | 15:13 |
| dstanek | ianychoi: the hacking rules are there because people had such a hard time remembering to do it correctly | 15:14 |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 15:14 | |
| *** makowals has quit IRC | 15:14 | |
| dstanek | ianychoi: for example when the same message is logged and then used for the exception | 15:14 |
| *** jethro7 has joined #openstack-dev | 15:14 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 15:15 | |
| *** lucasxu has joined #openstack-dev | 15:16 | |
| *** itzikb has joined #openstack-dev | 15:17 | |
| *** makowals has joined #openstack-dev | 15:18 | |
| *** scottynomad has quit IRC | 15:19 | |
| *** itzikb_ has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| *** david-lyle has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| *** zaitcev has joined #openstack-dev | 15:20 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 15:21 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 15:21 | |
| *** morazi has quit IRC | 15:22 | |
| *** owalsh has quit IRC | 15:22 | |
| *** gongysh has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| *** morazi has joined #openstack-dev | 15:24 | |
| *** aloga has quit IRC | 15:25 | |
| *** aloga has joined #openstack-dev | 15:25 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 15:26 | |
| *** erlon has joined #openstack-dev | 15:26 | |
| *** ericyoung has joined #openstack-dev | 15:26 | |
| *** bogdando has quit IRC | 15:28 | |
| *** slaweq has quit IRC | 15:29 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 15:29 | |
| *** bogdando has joined #openstack-dev | 15:29 | |
| *** itzikb has quit IRC | 15:29 | |
| *** dhajare has quit IRC | 15:31 | |
| *** owalsh has joined #openstack-dev | 15:32 | |
| *** hamzy_ is now known as hamzy | 15:33 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
| *** mpotdar has joined #openstack-dev | 15:36 | |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 15:39 | |
| *** sree has quit IRC | 15:40 | |
| *** makowals_ has joined #openstack-dev | 15:42 | |
| *** svinota has quit IRC | 15:42 | |
| *** rraja has quit IRC | 15:43 | |
| *** makowals has quit IRC | 15:43 | |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 15:44 | |
| *** Leo_ has joined #openstack-dev | 15:44 | |
| *** rderose has quit IRC | 15:44 | |
| *** dizquierdo has joined #openstack-dev | 15:47 | |
| *** blues-man has joined #openstack-dev | 15:47 | |
| *** halves has joined #openstack-dev | 15:50 | |
| *** mhickey has joined #openstack-dev | 15:50 | |
| openstackgerrit | Andy McCrae proposed openstack/governance master: Add os_molteniron to OpenStack-Ansible https://review.openstack.org/442003 | 15:51 |
| *** annegentle has joined #openstack-dev | 15:52 | |
| *** morazi has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| *** gamado has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
| *** tremble has joined #openstack-dev | 15:53 | |
| *** tremble has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
| *** tremble has joined #openstack-dev | 15:53 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 15:54 | |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek, sdague, cdent: so I'm still on the fence about placement vs. keystone for storing limits. sdague, you're absolutely correct in your point about needing to send notifications about changes to the project hierarchy to the placement service if we decided to store limits in placement... | 15:57 |
| *** xarses_ has joined #openstack-dev | 15:57 | |
| sdague | jaypipes_: I have a practical concern as well, beyond the separation of concerns | 15:58 |
| *** annegentle has quit IRC | 15:59 | |
| sdague | the placement team has a ton on it's plate, and reviews are slow. Unified limits in keystone wouldn't be going through that same bottleneck. | 15:59 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: fair enough. | 16:00 |
| *** vnogin has quit IRC | 16:00 | |
| sdague | at least any time before placement is a dedicated project with a dedicated core team. The nova core team is stretched as it is without effectively making every other project need to push changes at Nova. | 16:01 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: ok | 16:01 |
| *** yamahata has joined #openstack-dev | 16:02 | |
| *** hongbin has joined #openstack-dev | 16:03 | |
| *** morazi has joined #openstack-dev | 16:06 | |
| *** eezhova has quit IRC | 16:07 | |
| *** mpotdar has quit IRC | 16:07 | |
| *** annegentle has joined #openstack-dev | 16:07 | |
| *** tremble has quit IRC | 16:08 | |
| *** rcernin has quit IRC | 16:08 | |
| *** eezhova has joined #openstack-dev | 16:09 | |
| sdague | dstanek: I updated the model document and walked through the Stanek model for logic to update limits or validate usage violations | 16:10 |
| *** tremble has joined #openstack-dev | 16:10 | |
| *** tremble has quit IRC | 16:10 | |
| *** tremble has joined #openstack-dev | 16:10 | |
| *** bogdando has quit IRC | 16:11 | |
| sdague | dstanek: I also just tried to update the terminology to match some of the other examples a bit, I don't think I changed anything substantial in the process | 16:12 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441203/ | 16:12 |
| *** mpotdar has joined #openstack-dev | 16:12 | |
| *** pt_15 has joined #openstack-dev | 16:12 | |
| dstanek | sdague: nice, i'll take a look. thx | 16:12 |
| *** dsariel has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| dstanek | jaypipes_: with limits you must understand the hierarchy at all times. with the usage calculation you only need to know about it at the time you make the calculation. | 16:13 |
| *** gamado has joined #openstack-dev | 16:13 | |
| *** e0ne has joined #openstack-dev | 16:13 | |
| dstanek | sdague: jaypipes_: what happens now when a project is deleted? do the services watch for the notification to automatically remove resources or notify owner or anything like that? | 16:14 |
| sdague | dstanek: no, they don't | 16:15 |
| sdague | we just get stale data | 16:15 |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 16:16 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 16:16 | |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek: with limits, you only need to know the the limit of the parent, whether overbooking is allowed, and the sum of sibling limits. | 16:16 |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek: you don't need to know the entire hierarchy to determine limits violations. | 16:16 |
| sdague | jaypipes_: it all depends on the model you want to express | 16:17 |
| *** david-lyle has joined #openstack-dev | 16:17 | |
| sdague | jaypipes_: so, perhaps we need to write down the Pipes model in here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441203/ | 16:17 |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 16:17 | |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek: on the other hand, with usages, you *do* need to know the entire set of projects that are descendants of the project in question in order to get a sum of usage across all the children. | 16:17 |
| sdague | jaypipes_: one of my take aways from the limits conversation is that overbooking means something | 16:17 |
| sdague | it's not sufficient to explain the constraints on the limit system | 16:18 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: the only thing overbooking means is that the sum of limits for children can exceed the absolute limit of the parent. | 16:18 |
| *** pnavarro has quit IRC | 16:18 | |
| sdague | jaypipes_: that requires all limits be explicit? | 16:19 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: *usage* on the other hand, is always absolute with regards to the individual project's limit. it may never exceed it. | 16:19 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: sorry, what do you mean by explicit? | 16:19 |
| *** kobis has quit IRC | 16:19 | |
| sdague | jaypipes_: please take a look at this - http://docs-draft.openstack.org/03/441203/7/check/gate-keystone-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/7e38090//doc/build/html/specs/keystone/backlog/hierarchical-quota-scenarios.html | 16:19 |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| sdague | I've been trying to diagram scenarios people have expressed, and give them explicit names | 16:20 |
| *** tremble has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 16:21 | |
| dstanek | jaypipes_: hmmm...i was under the impression that overbooking mean that the sum of the child limits could be greater than the parent's limit, but usage couldn't exceed the parents | 16:21 |
| sdague | again, overbooking is not specific enough of a term | 16:21 |
| *** david-lyle has quit IRC | 16:22 | |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek: yes, that's what I just said, no? :) | 16:22 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: reading the diagram page... | 16:23 |
| dstanek | jaypipes_: ah, yes. i see that now | 16:23 |
| sdague | jaypipes_: because there is another dimension at least, which is how do you treat a project with nothing explicitly set on it | 16:24 |
| *** tlaxkit has joined #openstack-dev | 16:24 | |
| dstanek | jaypipes_: i was thinking that you could use the hierarchy information returned as a part of the limits to not need to understand the hierarchy yourself | 16:24 |
| jaypipes_ | dstanek: well, placement service could theoretically not need to understand the hierarchy natively. it could, for instance, just ask Keystone "hey, gimme a list of all the project UUIDs that are 'below' this other project in a tree. | 16:26 |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 16:27 | |
| sdague | jaypipes_: so how does the idea you have in your head for how this works compare to the 3 hierarchical scenarios there? is it one of them, or a different one? | 16:28 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: still reading :) gimme a few more minutes... | 16:28 |
| sdague | ok, no prob | 16:28 |
| sdague | also, realize it's early and rough, so not everything is fleshed out | 16:29 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: when you say "assume only 1 API endpoint", I'm honestly a little confused. | 16:29 |
| jaypipes_ | sdague: I don't understand what the API endpoint has to do with quotas? | 16:29 |
| sdague | jaypipes_: part of the reason that we mentioned endpoint is that if you bring on a new version of Nova, and register that into your catalog, that may very well have new limits with it. So each nova endpoint instance may needed dedicated numbers. | 16:30 |
| sdague | jaypipes_: anyway, I'm trying to get rid of everything that's orthoginal so we're working on 1 resource | 16:31 |
| sdague | and seeing how it plays out | 16:31 |
| sdague | so, honestly, don't get hung up on that, it can either be or not be a thing and doesn't impact much | 16:31 |
| *** lucasxu has quit IRC | 16:32 | |
| jaypipes_ | k | 16:32 |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 16:33 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 16:34 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| *** ptrlv has joined #openstack-dev | 16:35 | |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 16:35 | |
| *** bogdando has joined #openstack-dev | 16:36 | |
| *** jathan has joined #openstack-dev | 16:37 | |
| *** ativelkov has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 16:39 | |
| *** gamado has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| *** ativelkov has joined #openstack-dev | 16:40 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| *** dsariel has joined #openstack-dev | 16:40 | |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 16:41 | |
| *** eezhova has quit IRC | 16:41 | |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 16:41 | |
| *** e0ne has joined #openstack-dev | 16:45 | |
| *** yassine has quit IRC | 16:46 | |
| *** rderose has joined #openstack-dev | 16:47 | |
| *** yassine has joined #openstack-dev | 16:47 | |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 16:50 | |
| *** aludwar has quit IRC | 16:51 | |
| *** aludwar has joined #openstack-dev | 16:52 | |
| openstackgerrit | Julie Pichon proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Add tips for writing good release notes https://review.openstack.org/442039 | 16:55 |
| *** abregman|mtg has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| *** ccneill has joined #openstack-dev | 16:56 | |
| *** sshnaidm is now known as sshnaidm|afk | 16:58 | |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 16:59 | |
| *** _cjones_ has joined #openstack-dev | 16:59 | |
| *** takamatsu_ has joined #openstack-dev | 17:01 | |
| *** aasthad has joined #openstack-dev | 17:01 | |
| *** takamatsu is now known as Guest57893 | 17:01 | |
| *** takamatsu_ is now known as takamatsu | 17:02 | |
| *** ayogi has joined #openstack-dev | 17:02 | |
| *** Guest57893 has quit IRC | 17:03 | |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-dev | 17:04 | |
| *** k4n0 has quit IRC | 17:04 | |
| *** mgagne_ has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** mgagne_ has joined #openstack-dev | 17:05 | |
| *** jaypipes has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** jaypipes_ is now known as jaypipes | 17:05 | |
| *** vnogin has quit IRC | 17:07 | |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-dev | 17:07 | |
| *** dosaboy_ is now known as dosaboy | 17:09 | |
| *** tlaxkit has quit IRC | 17:09 | |
| *** slaweq_ has quit IRC | 17:09 | |
| *** tesseract has quit IRC | 17:10 | |
| *** slaweq has joined #openstack-dev | 17:10 | |
| *** ayogi has quit IRC | 17:11 | |
| *** ygbo has quit IRC | 17:11 | |
| *** ayogi has joined #openstack-dev | 17:13 | |
| *** vhosakot has joined #openstack-dev | 17:15 | |
| *** ekuris has quit IRC | 17:16 | |
| *** david-lyle has joined #openstack-dev | 17:18 | |
| *** jdandrea has quit IRC | 17:19 | |
| *** jathan has quit IRC | 17:21 | |
| *** david-lyle has quit IRC | 17:24 | |
| *** eroux has joined #openstack-dev | 17:26 | |
| *** rcernin has joined #openstack-dev | 17:27 | |
| *** hseipp has quit IRC | 17:27 | |
| *** dizquierdo has quit IRC | 17:28 | |
| *** david-lyle has joined #openstack-dev | 17:30 | |
| *** yassine has quit IRC | 17:32 | |
| *** lucasxu has joined #openstack-dev | 17:32 | |
| *** jpich has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** vhosakot has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
| *** akrivoka has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
| *** eezhova has joined #openstack-dev | 17:36 | |
| *** akrivoka has joined #openstack-dev | 17:37 | |
| *** mhickey has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| *** mpotdar has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| *** jathan has joined #openstack-dev | 17:40 | |
| openstackgerrit | Michal Jastrzebski (inc0) proposed openstack/governance master: Apply for stable:follows-policy for Kolla https://review.openstack.org/346455 | 17:41 |
| *** andreww has joined #openstack-dev | 17:43 | |
| *** armax has joined #openstack-dev | 17:45 | |
| *** xarses_ has quit IRC | 17:46 | |
| *** athomas has quit IRC | 17:47 | |
| *** mvk has quit IRC | 17:49 | |
| *** eroux has quit IRC | 17:50 | |
| *** ltomasbo is now known as ltomasbo|away | 17:52 | |
| *** bogdando has quit IRC | 17:52 | |
| *** annegentle has quit IRC | 17:52 | |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I did kind of the next level drill down on the Stanek model, going to get up from the computer for a bit, if you think working through that on the Garbutt model would be useful, I can - http://docs-draft.openstack.org/03/441203/7/check/gate-keystone-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/7e38090//doc/build/html/specs/keystone/backlog/hierarchical-quota-scenarios.html | 17:52 |
| *** snica is now known as snica_away | 17:52 | |
| *** mhickey has joined #openstack-dev | 17:53 | |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I should take a look, will be tomorrow though I think | 17:54 |
| sdague | ok, fair enough | 17:55 |
| *** beekneemech is now known as bnemec | 17:56 | |
| *** halves has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** mhickey has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** ociuhandu has quit IRC | 18:01 | |
| *** iyamahat has joined #openstack-dev | 18:03 | |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 18:03 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 18:03 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 18:04 | |
| *** mhickey has joined #openstack-dev | 18:04 | |
| *** radhikam has joined #openstack-dev | 18:04 | |
| *** kbringard2 has joined #openstack-dev | 18:04 | |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 18:05 | |
| *** jdandrea has joined #openstack-dev | 18:06 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 18:09 | |
| *** blues-man has quit IRC | 18:09 | |
| *** shardy has quit IRC | 18:11 | |
| *** owalsh has quit IRC | 18:14 | |
| *** halves has joined #openstack-dev | 18:14 | |
| *** ksobkowiak has joined #openstack-dev | 18:16 | |
| *** owalsh has joined #openstack-dev | 18:17 | |
| *** sreenath has quit IRC | 18:18 | |
| *** wootehfoot has joined #openstack-dev | 18:19 | |
| *** lucasagomes is now known as lucas-afk | 18:20 | |
| *** kbringard2 has quit IRC | 18:22 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 18:23 | |
| *** shardy has joined #openstack-dev | 18:24 | |
| *** athomas has joined #openstack-dev | 18:27 | |
| *** jdandrea has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| *** eezhova has quit IRC | 18:28 | |
| *** e0ne has joined #openstack-dev | 18:29 | |
| *** mvk has joined #openstack-dev | 18:31 | |
| *** ayogi has quit IRC | 18:33 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 18:34 | |
| *** eroux has joined #openstack-dev | 18:34 | |
| *** dtantsur is now known as dtantsur|afk | 18:34 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 18:36 | |
| *** jdandrea has joined #openstack-dev | 18:39 | |
| *** jcoufal has quit IRC | 18:40 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 18:41 | |
| *** ijw has joined #openstack-dev | 18:43 | |
| *** diablo_rojo has joined #openstack-dev | 18:45 | |
| *** jcoufal has joined #openstack-dev | 18:46 | |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 18:47 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 18:47 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 18:49 | |
| vsaienko | devstack core please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440303 need for ironic multinode grenade | 18:49 |
| *** Guest64317 has joined #openstack-dev | 18:50 | |
| *** ayogi has joined #openstack-dev | 18:50 | |
| vsaienko | the patch updates enable_plugin to ignore second plugin enablement which is caused by unknown issue, event when it is added to local.conf only once | 18:51 |
| sdague | vsaienko: can you show me a job where that happens? | 18:52 |
| vsaienko | sdague there is an example http://logs.openstack.org/57/436957/10/experimental/gate-grenade-dsvm-ironic-multinode-multitenant-ubuntu-xenial-nv/56b2faa/logs/grenade.sh.txt.gz#_2017-03-02_09_58_21_583 | 18:54 |
| *** akrivoka has quit IRC | 18:54 | |
| *** lucasxu has quit IRC | 18:55 | |
| vsaienko | sdague the job failed on save_mysql_db() I don't understand how DEVSTACK_PLUGINS may be set when _DEVSTACK_STACKRC not http://logs.openstack.org/57/436957/10/experimental/gate-grenade-dsvm-ironic-multinode-multitenant-ubuntu-xenial-nv/56b2faa/logs/grenade.sh.txt.gz#_2017-03-02_09_58_19_688 | 18:56 |
| *** owalsh is now known as owalsh-brb | 18:56 | |
| *** Guest64317 has quit IRC | 18:56 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 18:57 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 18:58 | |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 19:01 | |
| *** ociuhandu has joined #openstack-dev | 19:02 | |
| *** dschultz has joined #openstack-dev | 19:02 | |
| *** ckonstanski has joined #openstack-dev | 19:04 | |
| *** pcaruana has quit IRC | 19:04 | |
| sdague | vsaienko: so the thing that's actually dying is the trick to pull out the MYSQL pwd | 19:05 |
| vsaienko | sdague yes the error comes from that call but I don't understand what causes it | 19:06 |
| sdague | vsaienko: I think this might fix it https://review.openstack.org/442121 | 19:07 |
| *** electrofelix has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| sdague | I think the variable was inheriting from the parent | 19:08 |
| *** akrivoka has joined #openstack-dev | 19:09 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 19:09 | |
| vsaienko | sdague let me check if that works I will let you know | 19:09 |
| vsaienko | sdague thanks! | 19:09 |
| sdague | vsaienko: no prob | 19:09 |
| *** shardy has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** halprin has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 19:14 | |
| *** pcaruana has joined #openstack-dev | 19:15 | |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Add tips for writing good release notes https://review.openstack.org/442039 | 19:17 |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 19:20 | |
| *** eglynn has quit IRC | 19:20 | |
| *** yee379 has quit IRC | 19:21 | |
| *** yee379 has joined #openstack-dev | 19:21 | |
| *** eroux has quit IRC | 19:21 | |
| *** egallen has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| *** egallen has joined #openstack-dev | 19:22 | |
| *** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-dev | 19:24 | |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Describe what upstream support means https://review.openstack.org/440601 | 19:25 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Describe what upstream support means https://review.openstack.org/440601 | 19:25 |
| *** eroux has joined #openstack-dev | 19:25 | |
| *** basilAB_ has joined #openstack-dev | 19:26 | |
| *** egallen has quit IRC | 19:27 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 19:29 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 19:33 | |
| *** Werz44 has quit IRC | 19:33 | |
| *** lpetrut has quit IRC | 19:34 | |
| *** lpetrut has joined #openstack-dev | 19:34 | |
| *** vhosakot has joined #openstack-dev | 19:34 | |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 19:34 | |
| *** ddyer has quit IRC | 19:36 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 19:37 | |
| jaypipes | lbragstad: what's HMT? | 19:38 |
| lbragstad | jaypipes hierarchical multi tenancy | 19:39 |
| jaypipes | ah. fancy :) | 19:39 |
| lbragstad | jaypipes I *always* misspell hierarchical so I just use HMT ;) | 19:39 |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 19:39 | |
| jaypipes | lbragstad: :) | 19:39 |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 19:40 | |
| *** ddyer has joined #openstack-dev | 19:40 | |
| *** fragatin_ has quit IRC | 19:42 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 19:44 | |
| *** markvoelker_ has quit IRC | 19:47 | |
| *** vhosakot has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
| *** ociuhandu has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
| *** Rockyg has joined #openstack-dev | 19:50 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 19:50 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 19:50 | |
| *** gszasz has quit IRC | 19:53 | |
| *** gouthamr has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
| *** galstrom is now known as galstrom_zzz | 19:54 | |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 19:55 | |
| lbragstad | sdague looking at one of the examples in this section - http://docs-draft.openstack.org/03/441203/7/check/gate-keystone-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/7e38090//doc/build/html/specs/keystone/backlog/hierarchical-quota-scenarios.html#strict-hierarchy-default-closed | 19:55 |
| lbragstad | the `UPDATE LIMIT on B to 10 followed by UPDATE LIMIT on C to 5` should technically fail the second rule, right? | 19:55 |
| *** claudiub|2 has joined #openstack-dev | 19:55 | |
| lbragstad | also, does the second rule need to be written as "The sum of all children is must be <= the parent." | 19:56 |
| *** dsariel has quit IRC | 19:56 | |
| *** claudiub has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| *** annegentle has joined #openstack-dev | 19:59 | |
| *** ayogi has quit IRC | 20:00 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 20:01 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 20:02 | |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 20:02 | |
| *** kbringard1 has joined #openstack-dev | 20:02 | |
| *** kbringard2 has joined #openstack-dev | 20:05 | |
| *** kbringard2 has quit IRC | 20:05 | |
| *** kbringard2 has joined #openstack-dev | 20:05 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| *** ijw_ has joined #openstack-dev | 20:06 | |
| *** kbringard1 has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 20:07 | |
| *** kbringard has joined #openstack-dev | 20:08 | |
| *** kbringard has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** ijw has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** kbringard2 has quit IRC | 20:10 | |
| *** ijw has joined #openstack-dev | 20:11 | |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 20:11 | |
| lbragstad | I'm also wondering if it makes sense to have a section dedicated to the different failure scenarios | 20:13 |
| *** owalsh-brb is now known as owalsh | 20:13 | |
| *** gouthamr has joined #openstack-dev | 20:14 | |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 20:14 | |
| *** ijw_ has quit IRC | 20:14 | |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| *** gmoro has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 20:21 | |
| *** Jack_I has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: let me look | 20:22 |
| sdague | lbragstad: ah, <= is what it should be | 20:23 |
| sdague | yeh, assume I'm going to typo that all the time :) | 20:23 |
| lbragstad | sdague ok - I have a comment in draft state | 20:23 |
| sdague | so, assuming that's updated, that should all be fine, right? | 20:24 |
| *** markvoelker has joined #openstack-dev | 20:24 | |
| sdague | I didn't fully flush out either that one or the garbutt one | 20:24 |
| lbragstad | sdague that model? | 20:24 |
| sdague | lbragstad: yeh | 20:24 |
| lbragstad | sdague i think it's going to really depend on how complicated these are in real deployments | 20:24 |
| sdague | lbragstad: sure, however we should be able to map out their edge scenarios right? | 20:25 |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 20:25 | |
| lbragstad | sdague right | 20:25 |
| lbragstad | the `UPDATE LIMIT on B to 10 followed by UPDATE LIMIT on C to 5` would fail, too? | 20:25 |
| lbragstad | in that specific scenario? | 20:26 |
| *** vills has joined #openstack-dev | 20:26 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: why? | 20:27 |
| *** donghao has joined #openstack-dev | 20:27 | |
| lbragstad | sdague the way I read the second rule of that model was if the sum of all children exceed the limit of A, then the limit update should fail | 20:27 |
| *** ociuhandu has joined #openstack-dev | 20:27 | |
| lbragstad | so limit(A) >= limit(B) + limit(C) | 20:28 |
| *** mhickey has quit IRC | 20:28 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: I guess it should be direct children | 20:28 |
| sdague | I was thinking of it as direct children | 20:28 |
| sdague | but, I think you found a brand new way we could handle that | 20:28 |
| lbragstad | if we did limit(A) >= limit(B) + limit(C) that would represent the most strict model possible, right? | 20:29 |
| sdague | yeh, but I think the implications of that are even more confusing | 20:29 |
| *** achampion has joined #openstack-dev | 20:30 | |
| lbragstad | sdague you mean applying it to an existing hierarchy? | 20:30 |
| sdague | because A (10), B(6), C(4), D(0) | 20:30 |
| sdague | set limit D == 2 | 20:30 |
| sdague | passes B check, fails A check? | 20:30 |
| lbragstad | yeah - that would break | 20:30 |
| lbragstad | thinking about it in the way I interpreted the rules of that model (which could totally be wrong) | 20:31 |
| *** fragatina has joined #openstack-dev | 20:31 | |
| sdague | right, so, I think we'll have models we reject out of hand because they make too little sense to operators for "project D is out of quota, bump it" | 20:32 |
| lbragstad | right | 20:32 |
| lbragstad | sdague and you would consider a super strict model like that to be too restrictive to be useful, right? | 20:32 |
| *** slaweq has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| *** donghao has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| sdague | yeh, I would call that the Exit Ed Model, because I think that it's not possible for an admin to figure out how to bump a limit correctly | 20:33 |
| *** halves has quit IRC | 20:34 | |
| lbragstad | sdague yeah - that would be like trying to update the quota locally only to see if fail, then have to update the parent quota only to see it fail, then update the grandparent quota only to see it fail, etc... | 20:35 |
| lbragstad | all the way up the tree (in the worst case scenario where all allocations are maxed out) | 20:35 |
| lbragstad | which i would be ok filing in the poor user experience catagory | 20:36 |
| lbragstad | category* | 20:36 |
| sdague | yeh, lbragstad have more things to put in, I'll update and throw a couple more of these in there | 20:37 |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 20:37 | |
| *** slaweq has joined #openstack-dev | 20:37 | |
| *** ijw_ has joined #openstack-dev | 20:38 | |
| lbragstad | sdague I would think that would help us filter out the models that we don't want | 20:38 |
| lbragstad | another thing I was thinking about was the classification of quota errors | 20:40 |
| lbragstad | do we want a dedicated place to identify what those errors look like and what they should say, or is that too implementation specific? | 20:40 |
| lbragstad | (i.e. updating the limit of project D failed because project C has a limit of X) | 20:40 |
| *** ijw has quit IRC | 20:41 | |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 20:42 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: I think we want whatever collateral we need before starting to pick models that will get implemented. | 20:45 |
| lbragstad | sdague keystone has had discussions about doing specific error codes (independent of HTTP codes obviously) but I could see those applying here | 20:46 |
| sdague | yeh, I think once we get there, being clear with errors is going to be important | 20:47 |
| lbragstad | sdague ++ | 20:47 |
| lbragstad | thinking about all the different error paths from the opaque view of a user is interesting | 20:47 |
| lbragstad | because typically, I'd just copy/paste something into a ticket for support to look into right? | 20:47 |
| *** dsariel has joined #openstack-dev | 20:49 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 20:50 | |
| *** bobmel has joined #openstack-dev | 20:50 | |
| lbragstad | putting myself into a support role, getting a "unable to do X because you're over quota" isn't very helpful, but maybe if we included classes for "sibliing over quota", "child over quota", "parent over quota" that'd make things a little easier for support to track down? | 20:51 |
| *** vhosakot has joined #openstack-dev | 20:52 | |
| *** yamahata has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| *** iyamahat has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| *** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-dev | 20:53 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: so I think the end user creating an instance (or whatever) is going to get a pretty generic, "over limit for Memory" | 20:54 |
| sdague | which they'd put in a ticket. | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | lbragstad, ++ Definitely need to include type of over quotq | 20:54 |
| sdague | but the operator should be able to figure out a resolution without getting eaten by a grue | 20:54 |
| annegentle | sdague snerk :) | 20:55 |
| *** zz_pwnall138 is now known as pwnall1337 | 20:55 | |
| *** iyamahat has joined #openstack-dev | 20:56 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: ok, pushed with 2 more pre rejected scenarios | 20:56 |
| *** jcoufal_ has joined #openstack-dev | 20:57 | |
| *** hichihara has joined #openstack-dev | 20:58 | |
| *** athomas has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| *** ericyoung has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| *** wootehfoot has quit IRC | 20:59 | |
| *** ociuhandu has quit IRC | 21:00 | |
| *** jamielennox|away is now known as jamielennox | 21:00 | |
| lbragstad | sdague ok - so maybe that sounds like it can be solved by better notifications? | 21:00 |
| *** jcoufal has quit IRC | 21:00 | |
| lbragstad | or logging? | 21:01 |
| *** rfolco has quit IRC | 21:01 | |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:02 | |
| *** kriskend has quit IRC | 21:02 | |
| *** owalsh_ has joined #openstack-dev | 21:03 | |
| *** lucas-afk has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| *** rfolco has joined #openstack-dev | 21:04 | |
| *** rfolco has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| *** k4n0 has joined #openstack-dev | 21:05 | |
| *** owalsh has quit IRC | 21:06 | |
| *** lucasxu has joined #openstack-dev | 21:06 | |
| *** yamahata has joined #openstack-dev | 21:06 | |
| *** xarses_ has joined #openstack-dev | 21:06 | |
| *** lucasagomes has joined #openstack-dev | 21:07 | |
| *** lpetrut has quit IRC | 21:08 | |
| *** andreww has quit IRC | 21:10 | |
| *** ShaneDavidson has joined #openstack-dev | 21:11 | |
| sdague | maybe, I think it's got to be over the REST api though | 21:12 |
| *** jdandrea has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| *** pcaruana has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| *** pabelanger has quit IRC | 21:14 | |
| *** pabelanger has joined #openstack-dev | 21:14 | |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: restarting gerrit to address performance problems | 21:15 | |
| *** jprovazn has quit IRC | 21:16 | |
| *** ccneill has quit IRC | 21:16 | |
| *** iyamahat has quit IRC | 21:17 | |
| *** kriskend has joined #openstack-dev | 21:17 | |
| lbragstad | sdague the cause of the quota or limit failure has to be over the REST api? | 21:18 |
| *** ccneill has joined #openstack-dev | 21:18 | |
| *** yamahata has quit IRC | 21:19 | |
| *** owalsh_ is now known as owalsh | 21:19 | |
| sdague | a user should be told what resource they exceeded, so they can either free up enough space, or write a good ticket | 21:19 |
| lbragstad | oh - right | 21:20 |
| sdague | because the person solving that is going to do that over the keystone api to update limits, the operator should get that message during their call if they can't change that | 21:20 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:21 | |
| lbragstad | if a user can't do something in a project because of a sibling project or a parent project's limits or usage, how much of that information should be in the response to the user? | 21:21 |
| sdague | lbragstad: I think by default none | 21:22 |
| sdague | there are some information leaks there that are weird | 21:22 |
| *** eroux has quit IRC | 21:23 | |
| sdague | but, I also think we have time to figure that out, as that won't be dealt with until Q at least | 21:23 |
| lbragstad | yeah - that makes sense | 21:24 |
| *** kgiusti has quit IRC | 21:27 | |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:29 | |
| *** akrivoka has quit IRC | 21:30 | |
| *** iyamahat has joined #openstack-dev | 21:30 | |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 21:32 | |
| *** baoli has joined #openstack-dev | 21:33 | |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:34 | |
| *** nplanel has joined #openstack-dev | 21:34 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek sdague so i'm not sure I completely understand the usage of effective limits in the stanek model | 21:35 |
| *** GichukiMaina[m] has quit IRC | 21:35 | |
| lbragstad | the effective limit seems like something that only ever matters at the very top of the hierarchy | 21:36 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:36 | |
| mriedem | jbryce: will there be time allocated at the summit for vertical projects to have sessions like the traditional design summit, or at least meetup-style for the devs that will be there? or is it all forum all the time meaning talking about new features in the latest release, and getting feedback and requirements from users/operators/product people? | 21:36 |
| lbragstad | especially if when you change the effective limit of a project, it cascades through the entire tree if there are no violations | 21:36 |
| *** aysyd has quit IRC | 21:37 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 21:39 | |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:39 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: in that model i think it is just showing you what is possible in that particular part of the tree without looking at usage | 21:39 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:40 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek in the case of D, it has a limit of -1 but an el=10 | 21:40 |
| lbragstad | that's technically saying "D is unlimited, but only up to 10" | 21:40 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: in the first example, C has a limit of 5 since that was explicitly set. D has a limit of 10 because of the rule 'If a limit is not explicitly set for a project it is allowed to comsume as much as possible until the parent’s limit is reached' | 21:41 |
| *** GichukiMaina[m] has joined #openstack-dev | 21:41 | |
| lbragstad | right? | 21:41 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: basically | 21:41 |
| jbryce | mriedem: i need to check. i know we were going to have some space available, but not scheduled/managed the way the design summit used to be | 21:41 |
| lbragstad | dstanek is there ever a reason to not use the effective limit all the time then? | 21:41 |
| dstanek | i tried to keep the rules simple, but it still allows for some interesting usage | 21:41 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: what do you mean by that? | 21:42 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i would set the limit of A to 10 | 21:42 |
| *** jkilpatr has joined #openstack-dev | 21:42 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek because I know everything under A doesn't equal 10 | 21:42 |
| dstanek | the usage check will have to do two things look to see if the project limit is exceeded and if then make sure the parent's project limit isn't exceeded either | 21:42 |
| jbryce | mriedem: before i go talk to the team, maybe it would be helpful too to hear what you'd like to see now that we've seen what the ptg is like and what kind of collaborative time you still could use | 21:42 |
| lbragstad | dstanek isn't that similar to the Exit Ed model? | 21:43 |
| lbragstad | http://docs-draft.openstack.org/03/441203/8/check/gate-keystone-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/923ac60//doc/build/html/specs/keystone/backlog/hierarchical-quota-scenarios.html#exit-ed-model | 21:43 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:43 | |
| dansmith | jbryce: so where will things described on this page happen? http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-forum/ | 21:44 |
| mriedem | jbryce: i'm mostly wondering if there will be time for the nova team to be going over progress and talking through major dev issues in person at that point in the release (like we used to have with midcycles), | 21:44 |
| dansmith | jbryce: things like "long term planning" and "cross-project discussions" | 21:44 |
| mriedem | jbryce: and if it's useful to have nova devs there who aren't necessarily cores or giving talks | 21:44 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: no. iiuc, that model makes you list out explicit values all along the tree. the -1 in my model does not | 21:44 |
| lbragstad | dstanek ah - right | 21:45 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: so there is less tree balancing | 21:45 |
| *** ckonstan` has joined #openstack-dev | 21:45 | |
| dansmith | jbryce: those are activities that are good to have devs in, but we kinda need to know what the format and schedule will look like to know what we can/will discuss there, and thus who needs to go | 21:45 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:45 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek but there is tree balancing in that the limit at the top of the tree *must* encompass the useage/limits of the entire tree | 21:45 |
| lbragstad | otherwise it won't apply | 21:45 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has joined #openstack-dev | 21:46 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: yep, and that will be the same in all scenarios | 21:46 |
| *** ckonstanski has quit IRC | 21:46 | |
| dstanek | if i say project X can only have 10 resources then they can't game the system by making sub-projects allowed to have more | 21:46 |
| lbragstad | dstanek right - but isn't that the same thing in the exit ed model because the -1 isn't really honored, right? | 21:47 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: there may be a bit of a race between some of the scenarios where you need 1 more thing and the admin raises the limit of a parent, but someone else gets that thing | 21:47 |
| lbragstad | once the effective limit is set at the top of the tree, the rest of the tree must comply to it even if they have -1 set | 21:48 |
| *** jkilpatr has quit IRC | 21:48 | |
| *** yamahata has joined #openstack-dev | 21:48 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: i take 'Because the constraints are applied at all levels in the node' to mean the issue of increasing A so that you can increase B to finally increase the limit of C | 21:48 |
| dstanek | in my model you increase A | 21:48 |
| *** TxGirlGeek has quit IRC | 21:49 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek and it will increase B and C automatically, but it still must be done | 21:49 |
| lbragstad | dstanek just trying to walk through the cases and what makes it different | 21:49 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: yes, but that is always the case. i think Ed was rejected because you would have to manually jigger with things | 21:49 |
| *** ociuhandu has joined #openstack-dev | 21:49 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek yeah | 21:50 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: in all honestly i only looked at the rejected cases today and haven't thought too much about them | 21:50 |
| lbragstad | dstanek they are pretty fresh | 21:50 |
| *** ansmith has quit IRC | 21:50 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek so the Stanek model is a slightly less strict version of the Exit Ed model with a few more assumptions | 21:50 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: my case was just me having an engineer moment and wanting to solve the problem at PTG. i wasn't really aware of any other solutions until after that model was in my head | 21:51 |
| jbryce | dansmith: there are rooms for those topics/categories. the schedule and specific content for it is being set through those etherpad links that have been going out to the mailing lists | 21:51 |
| lbragstad | dstanek yeah - that makes sense | 21:51 |
| dansmith | jbryce: okay | 21:52 |
| *** jkilpatr has joined #openstack-dev | 21:52 | |
| * mriedem hasn't seen emails about scheduling sessions | 21:52 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek for some reason I'm trying to categorize these along a spectrum of strictness | 21:52 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: maybe...or maybe the inverse of the Garbutt model (but i don't entirely understand that one) | 21:52 |
| dansmith | mriedem: jbryce: me either, I was just looking... can you help with a subject to search for? | 21:52 |
| mriedem | unless they aren't in the -dev list | 21:53 |
| jbryce | dansmith, mriedem: EmilienM sent the first one out on 3/1. Subject: "[openstack-dev] [all] Forum Brainstorming - Boston 2017" | 21:53 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i've spent that last hour or two going through each trying to figure out the pro/cons of each and what makes them different | 21:53 |
| dansmith | jbryce: ah, okay I expected that was more targeted, I see that one | 21:53 |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 21:53 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: my perspective on the solution comes from supporting a reseller model | 21:53 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: a variation could also be that the explicit number set is guaranteed and the -1 nodes can just take up the rest | 21:54 |
| *** ociuhandu has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| lbragstad | right | 21:55 |
| *** ijw_ has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
| dansmith | mriedem: added one for us | 21:55 |
| * mriedem is still looking | 21:55 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek that's interesting because depending on the limits of a parent (if there is a parent) then the -1 doesn't really make much sense | 21:55 |
| mriedem | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113115.html | 21:56 |
| lbragstad | dstanek and I'd be in favor of having each project set a local limit and an effective limit | 21:56 |
| mriedem | ok, now why can't i find it in my mail client... | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | mriedem: you blocked me? :-) | 21:56 |
| jbryce | dansmith, mriedem: yeah the etherpads are a little thin right now, so feel free to chime in. it's the first time for this part of the event and i'm sure we'll have things to improve. i'll also check to see if we have some ad-hoc rooms that can be scheduled for projects to do mid-cycle type meetings | 21:56 |
| *** kriskend has quit IRC | 21:57 | |
| dansmith | jbryce: yeah, it's cool, it's just that we're two months out and in the prime travel-approval window, so we kinda need to know what so we know who | 21:57 |
| *** wootehfoot has joined #openstack-dev | 21:58 | |
| *** jkilpatr has quit IRC | 21:58 | |
| *** hichihara has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 21:59 | |
| *** bobmel has quit IRC | 22:00 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: well, what about multiple siblings? that's where the -1 is powerful | 22:00 |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 22:01 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek aha right - because you can have two siblings with -1 and they end up flighting for limits until all parent limits are used, right? | 22:02 |
| *** takamatsu has quit IRC | 22:02 | |
| jbryce | dansmith: ok. understood | 22:02 |
| mriedem | EmilienM: ha it actually was in my spam folder | 22:03 |
| mriedem | wtf | 22:03 |
| mriedem | blame google | 22:03 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: yes | 22:04 |
| *** vhosakot has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: that gives you a lot of flexibility | 22:04 |
| EmilienM | mriedem: seriously? | 22:04 |
| lbragstad | dstanek ++ | 22:04 |
| mriedem | EmilienM: yeah | 22:04 |
| EmilienM | mriedem: I use gmail (redhat) | 22:04 |
| lbragstad | dstanek alright - i'm working on a slightly modified Stanek model | 22:04 |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| EmilienM | and you too, that's weird | 22:04 |
| *** gouthamr has quit IRC | 22:05 | |
| mriedem | these emails calling me "beloved" are spam though, i think...let me click this link | 22:05 |
| *** thorst has joined #openstack-dev | 22:05 | |
| jbryce | don't click the link unless you want to have millions transferred directly to your account | 22:06 |
| mriedem | i could use some millinos | 22:06 |
| mriedem | *millions | 22:06 |
| EmilienM | ok that's why it takes so long | 22:07 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: i mentioned it here a few times so i dedicde to add a comment https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441203/8 | 22:09 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: how are you thinking it would work? | 22:09 |
| *** thorst has quit IRC | 22:09 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek i think the only thing I don't like is the fact that we reserve -1 to denote unlimited | 22:10 |
| lbragstad | but in certain cases, that won't make sense | 22:10 |
| *** paramite has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
| lbragstad | like anytime there is a child project who's parent project has a limit set that isn't -1 | 22:10 |
| lbragstad | so maybe there is a way to mix the unlimited cases we want with effective limits and local limits | 22:11 |
| * lbragstad thinks there are way too many limit terms now | 22:11 | |
| *** owalsh is now known as owalsh-afk | 22:11 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: that is just for show. in implementation there would literally be no value in the database | 22:12 |
| lbragstad | dstanek oh | 22:12 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i think there are some implementations (cinder maybe) that use -1 today | 22:13 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: we have a tree in the keystone DB already. i was anticipating a flat table like (ID, PROJECT_ID, RESOURCE_TYPE, VALUE) | 22:13 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: here is my original attempt to explain https://gist.github.com/dstanek/a8a343a3ab5ad4ad0862e3e1be332173 | 22:14 |
| *** jcoufal_ has quit IRC | 22:14 | |
| dstanek | that shows more of the implementation details | 22:14 |
| dstanek | in the review i wrote 'not set', but i left -1 in the example because i thought it was easier to see and more pleasant than None | 22:14 |
| *** kriskend has joined #openstack-dev | 22:16 | |
| *** kylek3h has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 22:18 | |
| *** ZZelle has joined #openstack-dev | 22:19 | |
| *** steveg_afk has quit IRC | 22:20 | |
| *** john-davidge has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| *** owalsh has joined #openstack-dev | 22:22 | |
| *** owalsh-afk has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| *** adriant has joined #openstack-dev | 22:22 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 22:22 | |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 22:23 | |
| *** ijw has joined #openstack-dev | 22:24 | |
| *** gouthamr has joined #openstack-dev | 22:24 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has quit IRC | 22:24 | |
| *** morazi has quit IRC | 22:24 | |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 22:25 | |
| *** limao_ has joined #openstack-dev | 22:27 | |
| *** lucasxu has quit IRC | 22:28 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 22:28 | |
| *** ihrachys has quit IRC | 22:29 | |
| *** ijw has quit IRC | 22:29 | |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 22:29 | |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 22:31 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek yeah - i'm tinkering with this locally but I think it -1 approach you have in your examples makes more sense | 22:33 |
| *** jkilpatr_ has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| lbragstad | even though the -1 can be misleading depending on the limits imposed by the parents, i think that is easier than orchestrating logic between local limits, effective limits, and unlimited | 22:34 |
| sdague | dstanek / lbragstad so I think the thing is that's one of the dimensions about what makes the models different. Does unset mean 0 or unlimitted. Unlimitted is actually easy to reason about, but it means the usage count needs the whole tree. | 22:34 |
| sdague | lbragstad: if you think there is a better way to express things, that would be cool. | 22:35 |
| thingee | dhellmann: wrt centralizing the support matrix work https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027 | 22:35 |
| *** ijw has joined #openstack-dev | 22:35 | |
| lbragstad | sdague the only part i was struggling with was the fact the unlimited wasn't really unlimited in all cases | 22:36 |
| sdague | lbragstad: I invented effective limit there just to make it easy to see what the limit enforcing would end up being. It could be cached in the db on limit changes, or computed on the fly when queried | 22:36 |
| sdague | lbragstad: right, it's only unlimitted if it's unlimitted to the top of the tree | 22:36 |
| lbragstad | right - in the truest sense | 22:36 |
| dhellmann | thingee : abandoned :-( | 22:36 |
| sdague | because the rule about being no greater than your parent applies | 22:36 |
| lbragstad | yep | 22:36 |
| thingee | dhellmann: there is a trend with projects going with ini files http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113173.html | 22:36 |
| lbragstad | and i think that's totally valid | 22:36 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: in my mind unlimited is never unlimited. unlimited up to the parent limit. even at the root you have a limit because of the hardware | 22:37 |
| thingee | dhellmann: I'd like to pick this up. But wanted to discuss the ini part | 22:37 |
| lbragstad | sure | 22:37 |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 22:37 | |
| dhellmann | thingee : ugh, what a horrible file format for data like this. but if that's what people are doing... | 22:37 |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 22:37 | |
| *** limao_ has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| sdague | thingee / dhellmann there is a reason | 22:37 |
| sdague | I complained originally with the hypervisor feature matrix doing that | 22:37 |
| dhellmann | thingee : it will make it impossible to use something like sphinxcontrib-datatemplates and require writing custom data handling | 22:37 |
| dhellmann | sdague : oh? | 22:38 |
| *** limao has joined #openstack-dev | 22:38 | |
| *** amotoki has joined #openstack-dev | 22:38 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek sdague that's what i was trying to tinker with locally - what if we could use limits and "local limits" to give us the same freedom without having to use "unlimited" | 22:38 |
| *** ijw has quit IRC | 22:38 | |
| sdague | and danpb did a quick prototype of what the data looked like in json or yaml | 22:38 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: i'm quitting working in a few so i can work on some volunteering stuff. let me know if you want to vidyo discuss at all | 22:38 |
| sdague | and it honestly was worse | 22:38 |
| *** ijw has joined #openstack-dev | 22:38 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek sounds good | 22:38 |
| sdague | so we went forward with least worst | 22:38 |
| dhellmann | sdague : ok | 22:39 |
| lbragstad | sdague dstanek but it is safe to assume we will always need a case where the root project requires all things (i.e. is unlimited)? | 22:39 |
| sdague | lbragstad: I think that's a safe assumption | 22:40 |
| lbragstad | ok | 22:40 |
| sdague | unlimitted at the top always needs to be a supported model | 22:40 |
| lbragstad | ok - cool, i would agree with that | 22:40 |
| sdague | I mean, you could declare models where that wasn't ok, but I think we'd reject them | 22:40 |
| lbragstad | but locally when i played with models for it, it turns into a weird abomination of local limit, project limit, and unlimited | 22:40 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i can't think of a case were we'd not want that | 22:41 |
| thingee | smcginnis: not sure if you had a chance to read this http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113173.html | 22:41 |
| thingee | smcginnis: would like to work with Karthik on this | 22:42 |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 22:42 | |
| *** vhosakot has joined #openstack-dev | 22:43 | |
| lbragstad | so - based on that, then i think it would also be safe to say that once a project flips its limit from -1 to something else, then all children in that tree have to do the same | 22:44 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I think custom data handling in a case like this is fine. If you want the outputs to be similar, you kind of want to box things in to a feature declaration format and not have people writing the presentation layer like in sphinxcontrib-datatemplates. | 22:45 |
| dhellmann | sdague : it's possible to put a template in a theme and share it, but since I'm not actually doing the work I'll leave those sorts of decisions to thingee | 22:46 |
| sdague | the thing gets included / rendered in a single line - https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/409f04b2185cc2da9bf4452b20b3d3d9b03beab8/doc/source/feature_classification.rst#L55 | 22:46 |
| sdague | lbragstad: well, flipping limits from -1 to N is a reduction in limits | 22:48 |
| sdague | lbragstad: so, it just depends on ensuring the tree is still valid | 22:48 |
| *** limao_ has joined #openstack-dev | 22:48 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: I think I walked that through on the stanek model | 22:48 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: well you'd have to verify that the values underneath work | 22:49 |
| lbragstad | sdague you probably did | 22:49 |
| sdague | http://docs-draft.openstack.org/03/441203/8/check/gate-keystone-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/923ac60//doc/build/html/specs/keystone/backlog/hierarchical-quota-scenarios.html#computing-legal-limits | 22:49 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: that's the rub though....keystone would not know if it violated any usage | 22:49 |
| sdague | dstanek: right, that's ok | 22:50 |
| lbragstad | so at that point, does it make sense to not use the term unlimited and specify local limits for projects? | 22:50 |
| dstanek | sdague: yeah, otherwise it's recursive tree algorithm of some sort | 22:50 |
| *** gongysh has joined #openstack-dev | 22:50 | |
| sdague | dstanek: we've said before it's completely valid to set limits < current usage | 22:51 |
| sdague | and that just means the user can't create any more of that | 22:51 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: you mean in that specific scenario or for the entire model? | 22:51 |
| sdague | and they get an email and say "which of your stuff do you want deleted, or we'll pick" | 22:51 |
| dstanek | sdague: good to know. i don't think i've heard that before or if i did it didn't stick | 22:51 |
| *** limao has quit IRC | 22:51 | |
| sdague | ok, I'll still that in the unified limits doc, I guess I thought that was common knowledge | 22:52 |
| sdague | but... that's part of the exercise of writing out things | 22:52 |
| dstanek | while over_limits(): delete(random_thing()) | 22:52 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i think i'm just starting with a specific scenario and trying to figure out if it's a pain to assume "unlimited" in one project by specifying local limits in sibling projects | 22:52 |
| dstanek | sdague: we've never really talked about limits on the keystone team until PTG. | 22:53 |
| sdague | lbragstad: well, the alternative is basically default closed | 22:53 |
| sdague | so unless someone sets a value, it is 0 | 22:53 |
| lbragstad | sdague what if I want a sibling to assume all available limits of the parent until the limit is hit? | 22:53 |
| sdague | lbragstad: if you want that | 22:54 |
| sdague | if you didn't, you could have set it | 22:54 |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 22:54 | |
| lbragstad | in the stanek model that would be done with -1 | 22:55 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: as in the -1 example? | 22:55 |
| lbragstad | so if B and C are both children of A and A has a limit of 10, and B and C have limits of -1, they can technically fight for resources | 22:55 |
| jbryce | mriedem, dansmith: confirmed there are ad-hoc rooms with tables and power strips that are available for developers to meet/hack in boston. these rooms are separate from the forum rooms that are being scheduled for pre-organized discussions | 22:55 |
| dstanek | the other models i don't think allow that, but i haven't fully grokked the Garbutt model yet | 22:55 |
| sdague | lbragstad: anyway, got to run, feel free to throw more thoughts or updates in the doc | 22:55 |
| sdague | lbragstad: right, but that's what the admin specified | 22:56 |
| lbragstad | sdague right - i think that's useful | 22:56 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: quick vidyo? i can explain what i was thinking quicker that way | 22:56 |
| mriedem | jbryce: can we schedule time in those rooms? or are they just a dumping ground for nerds to sit on their computers? | 22:56 |
| mriedem | the nedery is the trademark name | 22:56 |
| mriedem | *nerdery | 22:56 |
| *** kriskend has quit IRC | 22:56 | |
| dansmith | jbryce: okay | 22:56 |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 22:57 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek sure | 22:57 |
| *** stanchan has joined #openstack-dev | 22:57 | |
| *** vsaienko has joined #openstack-dev | 22:57 | |
| lbragstad | sdague would you be interesting in doing a group hangout sometime this week? | 22:57 |
| lbragstad | sdague dstanek if so - i'd be happy to organize/promote one on the mailing list | 22:58 |
| jbryce | mriedem: i believe the idea is to do loose scheduling like we did for the projector rooms at the ptg. there are 5 of these rooms right now available mon-thurs. probably need to check with ttx on what his plans there are. let us know what you think would be most useful and we can see what we can do | 22:59 |
| *** claudiub has joined #openstack-dev | 23:01 | |
| mriedem | ok. i imagine the nova dev room time will depend on what times other things are happening | 23:02 |
| mriedem | so we can schedule around a lull | 23:02 |
| *** claudiub|2 has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 23:06 | |
| *** cdent has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| *** vsaienko has quit IRC | 23:13 | |
| *** wootehfoot has quit IRC | 23:14 | |
| *** charcol has joined #openstack-dev | 23:16 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has quit IRC | 23:18 | |
| *** rcernin has quit IRC | 23:19 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 23:20 | |
| *** galstrom is now known as galstrom_zzz | 23:21 | |
| *** xyang1 has quit IRC | 23:26 | |
| *** limao_ has quit IRC | 23:28 | |
| smcginnis | thingee: Yep. That would be great. He's close, but I do want to make sure it aligns with everything else. | 23:32 |
| *** gordc has quit IRC | 23:35 | |
| *** annegentle has quit IRC | 23:35 | |
| *** xemdetia has quit IRC | 23:35 | |
| *** kriskend has joined #openstack-dev | 23:36 | |
| thingee | smcginnis: ankur is going to respin that patch tomorrow. I'll leave a comment to see if they can work together. | 23:38 |
| thingee | mugsie: ^ http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113173.html and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027/3 | 23:39 |
| *** vnogin has quit IRC | 23:41 | |
| *** vhosakot has quit IRC | 23:42 | |
| *** achampion has quit IRC | 23:43 | |
| *** charcol has quit IRC | 23:45 | |
| *** gyee has joined #openstack-dev | 23:46 | |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 23:46 | |
| *** k4n0 has quit IRC | 23:46 | |
| *** ssbarnea has quit IRC | 23:46 | |
| *** jaypipes has quit IRC | 23:49 | |
| *** Leo_ has quit IRC | 23:54 | |
| *** Leo_ has joined #openstack-dev | 23:54 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has quit IRC | 23:54 | |
| *** zaitcev has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| *** gongysh has quit IRC | 23:57 | |
| *** jkilpatr_ has joined #openstack-dev | 23:58 | |
| *** ccneill has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!