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| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed openstack/governance master: Import ansible-role-tripleo-modify-image https://review.openstack.org/568727 | 02:49 |
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| myrat | i write the command openstack create -enable --description "First project" P01 | 09:52 |
| myrat | then i got error Missing value auth-urk required for auth plugin password | 09:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update dependency-management doc https://review.openstack.org/568883 | 15:35 |
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| smcginnis | mordred: Hey! A week or so ago we talked about a Cinder attach API in openstacksdk. | 18:22 |
| smcginnis | mordred: You thought you might be able to work on implementing that. Just curious if you've had any time to look into that. | 18:22 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: oh! well - no, but let me go look at that ... | 18:25 |
| smcginnis | mordred: Cool, thanks! | 18:26 |
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| kmalloc | dhellmann: question for you... because... well.. reasons: assuming we're ditching our custom wsgi-implementation [Keystone, and it is "custom", just loosly leaning on webob], what would you use these days that has eyes/maintained/etc | 18:39 |
| dhellmann | kmalloc : do you mean like an application framework? or the WSGI server like we have in oslo.service? | 18:41 |
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| kmalloc | dhellmann: a framework that takes a bit of the "write a ton of glue" away | 18:42 |
| dhellmann | we have projects using pecan and flask, I think | 18:42 |
| dhellmann | both have their pros and cons | 18:42 |
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| dhellmann | the nova team has a new home-grown thing, too, fwiw. I don't know if anyone has looked into extracting that to make a reusable library. | 18:42 |
| kmalloc | hm.. i've been trying to convert keystone to flask, but ending up in some weird places because of webob vs werkzeurg | 18:42 |
| kmalloc | i'm disinclined to use another "homegrown" thing | 18:43 |
| dhellmann | pecan uses webob, but you may end up with different issues setting up the routing | 18:43 |
| kmalloc | yeah. i was also looking at falcon | 18:43 |
| kmalloc | but it's pretty barebones | 18:43 |
| kmalloc | i like flask a lot. | 18:43 |
| kmalloc | i might continue with trying to work through the oddities. it's mostly middleware oddities | 18:43 |
| kmalloc | not really funcationally broken stuff | 18:43 |
| dhellmann | we have a couple of projects using falcon, it seems. I was never a fan, but I haven't looked at the most current version | 18:44 |
| kmalloc | since our middlewares all webob | 18:44 |
| kmalloc | falcon is nice... it is very very barebones | 18:44 |
| dhellmann | ah, yeah | 18:44 |
| smcginnis | FWIW, I have heard good things about flask. | 18:44 |
| kmalloc | smcginnis: i've used flask before. i like it, esp. if i can layer in restplus | 18:44 |
| kmalloc | get fully rendered [browserable] pages for the API as a sideeffect | 18:44 |
| kmalloc | and all swagger awesomeness too | 18:45 |
| smcginnis | Sounds great. I'd be interested to see where things end up with your effort. | 18:45 |
| kmalloc | smcginnis: yeah, partly i am working to dump paste as well. | 18:47 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 18:47 |
| kmalloc | smcginnis: i am sure i can work around this. | 18:47 |
| kmalloc | just keep hitting other "weird" roadblocks | 18:47 |
| kmalloc | because webob does things subtly different than werkzeurg :P | 18:47 |
| smcginnis | Hopefully nothing too scary to work out. | 18:48 |
| mordred | it's completely unimportant for this discussion, but the zuul rest api is actually in the midst of shifting from aiohttp to cherrypy, fwiw | 18:48 |
| kmalloc | nah, mostly just unwinding the request/response objects | 18:48 |
| kmalloc | mordred: cherrypy was on my list honestly | 18:48 |
| mordred | but that's mostly driven by websockets needs | 18:49 |
| dhellmann | mordred : does cherrypy do async? or are you dropping async? | 18:49 |
| jroll | use twisted | 18:49 |
| * jroll runs away | 18:49 | |
| mordred | dhellmann: droping async - we were only using it in the aiohttp code and the rest of the codebase is threaded, so it was a weird cognitive shift | 18:49 |
| dhellmann | mordred : ack, makes sense | 18:49 |
| smcginnis | jroll: :) | 18:49 |
| kmalloc | and we don't need async in keystone. | 18:49 |
| dhellmann | I built some nice stuff with cherrypy a couple of lifetimes ago | 18:49 |
| kmalloc | cherrypy is very slick | 18:49 |
| mordred | we're dropping aiohttp because they kept dropping support for python versions - they currently require a newer 3.5 than is in xenial | 18:50 |
| dhellmann | somewhat close to pecan, irrc -- pecan was influenced by it for sure | 18:50 |
| kmalloc | but i wanted something with a bit more "hey if you know X you can do keystone work" | 18:50 |
| mugsie | is async really needed in APIs behind uwsgi ? | 18:50 |
| kmalloc | and flask has a big community | 18:50 |
| dhellmann | mordred : sigh | 18:50 |
| dhellmann | kmalloc : that's a good reason to choose flask | 18:50 |
| kmalloc | "oh look the bleeding edge is X, use X" | 18:50 |
| mordred | so in the past few months we've had to do a few different emergency pins .. enough to make rewriting the api in something else appealing | 18:50 |
| mordred | yah. the flask community is very appealing | 18:50 |
| mugsie | Designate used flask for v1 - it was pretty good. We went to pecan for v2, as it was the "openstack thing" - but I would go back to flask | 18:51 |
| jroll | kmalloc: I would definitely look at what cdent and friends are doing in placement, it seems pretty minimalist and low-level: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/api/openstack/placement | 18:51 |
| jroll | if I was going to rewrite ironic I would do it in flask, fwiw | 18:51 |
| dhellmann | there's a large portion of the python community who develop under the assumption that you're deploying from sdists or wheels and that whatever is in the distro doesn't matter | 18:51 |
| jroll | or falcon | 18:51 |
| kmalloc | dhellmann: yep, i want to move the needle on keystone being a more generic IDP [functionality], even if it means we back to something consistent not-sql in the long run | 18:51 |
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| dhellmann | which is fine for web app development, but less good for product development like openstack :-/ | 18:51 |
| kmalloc | dhellmann: and having the ability to have folks jump in and help is a plus. | 18:52 |
| kmalloc | we keep having some serious requests for more IDP-ish stuff, and we can't ignore it. | 18:52 |
| mordred | dhellmann: yah. that and the 'just vendor everything' approach that seems more common in the web side of things | 18:52 |
| dhellmann | kmalloc : definitely. that's one reason I pushed us to get off of our home-grown thing years ago. The pecan developers, at the time, were working on openstack so that seemed like a reasonable step. | 18:52 |
| dhellmann | flask feels like a more popular choice these days | 18:52 |
| kmalloc | mordred: I KNOW, LETS VENDOR ALL OF OPENSTACK... wait. | 18:53 |
| kmalloc | dhellmann: ++ | 18:53 |
| mordred | kmalloc: that's *totally* work and not cause any problems at all | 18:53 |
| dhellmann | mordred : different goals, different outcomes | 18:53 |
| mordred | dhellmann: yup | 18:53 |
| kmalloc | mordred: did i mention i vendored cactus openstack, it works right? | 18:53 |
| kmalloc | mordred: ok ok, i'm gonna stop >.> | 18:54 |
| kmalloc | <.< | 18:54 |
| kmalloc | jroll: falcon is def a contender if we can | 18:54 |
| kmalloc | 't get keystone happy under flask | 18:54 |
| mordred | kmalloc: dude. if you can boot a cactus openstack, vendored or not, on a xenial node - then i could use it to test older versions of api support in sdk .. | 18:54 |
| jroll | kmalloc: how much re-writing do you want to do? | 18:55 |
| kmalloc | mordred: the sad part is... i could probably manage to do it right now. | 18:55 |
| kmalloc | jroll: it's a lot of re-writing in both cases. | 18:55 |
| jroll | nod | 18:55 |
| kmalloc | jroll: because if we go to flask, all subsystems become blueprints for dispatch | 18:55 |
| jroll | I guess I'm surprised flask didn't work out | 18:55 |
| * mordred has negative feelings towards falcon that are not 100% earned - but the whole "we're going to use falcon" thing when we were trying to drive the pecan standardization was ... vexing | 18:55 | |
| jroll | ah, misread, "if we can't", not "we couldn't" | 18:55 |
| kmalloc | jroll: oh it's not that it didn't work, it's that is it a lot of work (3 days so far of chasing basic "working" | 18:56 |
| kmalloc | jroll: yeah :) | 18:56 |
| jroll | :) | 18:56 |
| kmalloc | jroll: heck, if i manage this i'll happily help with any pitfalls if you want to re-do ironic | 18:56 |
| kmalloc | mordred: it's part of why I didn't start with falcon, tbh | 18:57 |
| jroll | kmalloc: it's more about the time commitment (both dev and review) than the technical hardness, unfortunately | 18:57 |
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| kmalloc | jroll: yeah, right now we have a lot of things we're chaning interally to keystone, especially around policy/enforcement | 18:57 |
| jroll | we have all of two full-time cores | 18:57 |
| kmalloc | and flask makes that a LOT easier | 18:57 |
| jroll | yeah | 18:58 |
| kmalloc | jroll: i think we have 3 full time cores, and ~2 50-75% cores... and like a few other 1-2% cores | 18:58 |
| jroll | our motivation is just having lots of spaghetti around our api, especially with wsme in the mix | 18:58 |
| jroll | so much harder to justify :) | 18:58 |
| kmalloc | ah yeah. | 18:58 |
| kmalloc | we have the original "WE WROTE WSGIISH IN EVENTLET" in keystone | 18:59 |
| kmalloc | that morphed into mod_wsgi and uwsgi | 18:59 |
| jroll | heh | 18:59 |
| kmalloc | if i can drop Routes as well and just lean on flask/werkzurg | 19:00 |
| kmalloc | i'm exstatic, but the first phase is just dispatch everything to Routes objects via flask dispatcher then slowly migrate subsystems to blueprints under the main flask app. | 19:00 |
| jroll | ++ | 19:01 |
| kmalloc | :) | 19:01 |
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| cdent | kmalloc, jroll: no, don't do what placement did. It is minimalist and low-level, but it probably be better to "just use flask" | 19:12 |
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| cdent | The reason it is not flask (despite that being what I started with) is because there was a weird argument about why it was not more like nova that somehow ended with it being like nothing... | 19:12 |
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| jroll | cdent: ah, thanks for correcting | 19:13 |
| mugsie | yeah - just using flask is endlessly better than rolling our own stuff :) | 19:13 |
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| cdent | kmalloc: the one thing that I would try to maintain from what placement does is the centralized delcarative mapping of urls to functions, which you can make happen in flask too with something like: https://github.com/jaypipes/enamel/blob/master/enamel/cmd/api.py#L84 | 19:15 |
| cdent | (and gabbi of course :) ) | 19:16 |
| cdent | if you can't use flask, then yeah, do what placement does which is "boring WSGI, without classes" | 19:16 |
| cdent | jroll: can you remind what it was I supposed to be doing when I'm you next week? | 19:17 |
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| jroll | cdent: drink some beer? | 19:17 |
| jroll | I think microversion minimum bumping things | 19:18 |
| cdent | that was it | 19:18 |
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| mugsie | cdent: it will probably be "listen to mugsie and mordred argue endlessly about microversions" | 19:23 |
| cdent | I think I've been to that show before. | 19:23 |
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| mordred | mugsie: nah. we're gonna hash that all out over beers before hand | 19:24 |
| mordred | mugsie: it's gonna be "listen to mugsie and mordred violently agree" ;) | 19:24 |
| mugsie | :D | 19:24 |
| * cdent phones ahead to vancouver breweries | 19:25 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Include a rationale for tracking base services https://review.openstack.org/568941 | 19:30 |
| kmalloc | cdent: yeah, that (centralized) is absolutely part of what I want flask for. | 19:37 |
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| kmalloc | cdent: I like blueprints, but it will all be centrally hooked, we already do a bunch of that in keystone today. | 19:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: fix stein goals build https://review.openstack.org/568947 | 19:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Include a rationale for tracking base services https://review.openstack.org/568941 | 20:43 |
| mordred | rosmaita: https://review.openstack.org/568959 Release keystoneauth 3.6.2 | 20:55 |
| rosmaita | nice work! | 20:55 |
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| jeremyfreudberg | anyone know if a summit pass is included with registration for this upcoming denver ptg too? | 21:02 |
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| dhellmann | jeremyfreudberg : I think in the recent past discounts applied for ptg attendees (not just registrants) | 21:12 |
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| dhellmann | although there are no promises about what funding model will apply in the future | 21:12 |
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| jeremyfreudberg | dhellmann: you're right, it was for attendees, previously | 21:15 |
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| jeremyfreudberg | dhellmann: basically i'm looking for a sanity check, that i haven't missed some announcement that says one way or another concerning berlin passes for denver atendees | 21:16 |
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| dhellmann | I'm not aware of an announcement about that | 21:16 |
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| dhellmann | the future strategy for events is on the agenda for the joint leadership meeting in vancouver, so we may have more news next week | 21:17 |
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| jeremyfreudberg | dhellmann: thanks for the insight. unfortunately balancing variables like this while wrangling with the earlybird pricing deadline is not easy | 21:19 |
| jeremyfreudberg | but that's not yours to worry about | 21:19 |
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| osnaya | Is Virtual Memory Streaming (VMS) used by OpenStack under the hood? | 22:00 |
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