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| annilai | Hello | 04:04 |
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| annilai | Hello kavit ! | 04:13 |
| kavit | hey anni, hows it going? | 04:13 |
| annilai | good! it's my first time joining this WG ... excited ! but no one is on 😞 | 04:14 |
| kavit | I think we are still an hour out from the meeting | 04:15 |
| kavit | we use this space for meetings, set objectives and then go work in our teams | 04:15 |
| annilai | really ? I checked its 9 pm my time. ok, I'll come back in one hour. thanks | 04:15 |
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| kavit | we will start in 8 minutes | 04:52 |
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| rolandchan | shall we? | 05:00 |
| kavit | #startmeeting Diversity Workgroup APAC Sept 10 2015 | 05:00 |
| fifieldt | yes please :) | 05:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 10 05:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kavit. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015' | 05:01 |
| kavit | #chair rolandchan | 05:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: kavit rolandchan | 05:01 |
| kavit | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.10 | 05:01 |
| kavit | Roll Call | 05:01 |
| ozstacker | gday | 05:01 |
| kavit | Kavit Munshi, Aptira | 05:01 |
| rolandchan | Roland Chan, Aptira | 05:01 |
| fifieldt | Tom Fifield, OpenStack Foundation | 05:01 |
| ozstacker | Tristan Goode, Aptira | 05:01 |
| annilai | Anni lai, Huawei | 05:01 |
| kavit | a few people RSVPed I guess we can wait a few more minutes for people to join | 05:02 |
| ozstacker | So my first proposal was that perhaps we should hold these meetings in one of the openstack meeting channels. | 05:03 |
| kavit | ok | 05:04 |
| fifieldt | one of the benefits of doing that would be that we could potentially pull in some of the bystanders in those channels | 05:04 |
| ozstacker | yup | 05:05 |
| fifieldt | #openstack-meeting has about 450 or so at the moment | 05:05 |
| kavit | I think we should get some review done before the new proposals? | 05:05 |
| rolandchan | Mmmm. Bystanders. | 05:05 |
| fifieldt | :) | 05:05 |
| ozstacker | It's like we're trying to be inclusive, but we've gone off and locked ourselves in a room | 05:05 |
| rolandchan | an unlocked room with transparent walls, and a sign saying "Diversity, this way". | 05:05 |
| rolandchan | I am wary of being with an avalanche of 2c pieces | 05:06 |
| rolandchan | lets run the agenda, it's been 5 minutes. | 05:06 |
| kavit | #topic Review Community Survey task | 05:06 |
| kavit | rolandchan, updates on this? | 05:07 |
| rolandchan | The survey questions is essentially complete, as far as the original scope is concerned. | 05:07 |
| kavit | saw a flurry of activity on this on the mailing list last week | 05:07 |
| rolandchan | I've had feedback on the mailling list, most of which has been incorporated. | 05:07 |
| kavit | cool | 05:07 |
| kavit | so I guess we need to start discussing how we get this out | 05:07 |
| fifieldt | I have one query related to this - is now an appropriate time, or is that later in the agenda? | 05:08 |
| rolandchan | stuff I didn't action was requests that were no aligned to the charter. | 05:08 |
| kavit | to the community | 05:08 |
| kavit | now is appropriate fifieldt | 05:08 |
| fifieldt | so, I will first admit I have only skimmed the recent ML flurry | 05:08 |
| fifieldt | but I came away with the impression that we were mainly doing this 'bespoke' - my question is how much we looked at other similar surveys and what they were doing? | 05:09 |
| rolandchan | similar surveys from other organisations trying to achieve similar goals? a lot | 05:09 |
| rolandchan | I can claim, with a clear conscience, that little of the work I have done is original | 05:09 |
| ozstacker | hehe | 05:10 |
| kavit | we did get a lot of the initial numbers from other surveys in the industry | 05:10 |
| kavit | hehe | 05:10 |
| fifieldt | cool, cool | 05:10 |
| fifieldt | I was specifically wondering about question text | 05:10 |
| fifieldt | because I see something like "Do you identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or other minority sexuality?" and wonder - is that the "standard" way to ask it | 05:10 |
| rolandchan | mostly yes. | 05:10 |
| fifieldt | ok, cool | 05:11 |
| fifieldt | was the difference to do with the "other" ? | 05:11 |
| kavit | yeah, to be very honest some of the quetions and the feedback from the community was very new to me, especially around gender identity and sexuality | 05:11 |
| rolandchan | I've seen no mention of "minority sexuality" in my reading on surveys. That's all | 05:11 |
| annilai | Do we care about people's sexuality ? Some people like to keep it private | 05:12 |
| rolandchan | They are free not to answer. We will also ensure there is no linkage between the response and the respondents identity. | 05:12 |
| rolandchan | We do care about numbers, yes. | 05:12 |
| kavit | no such thing as too much data, I guess | 05:13 |
| fifieldt | rolandchan, I feel that "minority" is more leaning toward a negative/judgemental word so I would probably query the use of that if it was not in other surveys | 05:13 |
| fifieldt | anyway, thank you for answering my question, I am happy we have been using other surveys | 05:14 |
| rolandchan | the only outstanding question on the survey for me was whether we cared about language barriers. | 05:14 |
| rolandchan | it came up on a couple of list postings, but it's not part of our charter. | 05:14 |
| annilai | I think it's important. | 05:15 |
| fifieldt | +1 I have even seen some debates on dev mailing lists about language barriers before | 05:15 |
| rolandchan | it doesn't map neatly into geo, ethnicity or the other categories, although it has a large overlap | 05:15 |
| annilai | We need to know if we need more translated documents | 05:15 |
| kavit | I think even beyond the survey, I think it has a real effect on participation | 05:16 |
| annilai | Agree ! | 05:16 |
| fifieldt | I have a ton of anecdotal evidence for this | 05:16 |
| fifieldt | it would be nice to get numbers, if possible | 05:16 |
| rolandchan | OK cool. Second part of the question: do we ask 1) about language background 2) about whether english only is a problem 3) both? | 05:16 |
| kavit | this will let us know how many people are with us inspite of having a language issue and then we can make an educated guess on how many people we are not able to connect with | 05:17 |
| rolandchan | I think we have room in the survey to ask both questions. | 05:18 |
| kavit | I'd sa both but I dont know if we run the risk of making the survey too long? | 05:18 |
| kavit | +1 for both | 05:18 |
| annilai | English skill: elementary, conversational, fluent | 05:18 |
| kavit | #action rolandchan add both questions discussed around language to survey | 05:18 |
| rolandchan | 13 questions if we do both "what is your first language" and "has english-only been a problem" | 05:19 |
| rolandchan | ok cool. I will update. | 05:19 |
| fifieldt | First language doesn't always work | 05:19 |
| fifieldt | I think we should be looking up how to ask this properly | 05:19 |
| rolandchan | sure. I'll look around. | 05:19 |
| kavit | maybe we could ask if there is a lingua franca they are more comfortable with? | 05:20 |
| rolandchan | Um. | 05:20 |
| rolandchan | I'd rather establish: what their origin is, and whether they have a problem | 05:20 |
| rolandchan | solutions are something we look at once we have data. | 05:20 |
| kavit | OK | 05:20 |
| kavit | I have added the language task to the etherpad and assigned it you rolandchan | 05:21 |
| fifieldt | are you considering translating the survey at all? | 05:21 |
| annilai | We don't really care about their first language but we do care about their English proficiency . and, what language besides English should be incorporated into OpenStack documentation and training | 05:21 |
| rolandchan | transalation. Excellent idea. I'll see if surveymonkey can do that. | 05:21 |
| annilai | How many languages ? | 05:22 |
| rolandchan | #action rolandchan to investigate translation options. | 05:22 |
| rolandchan | How many do we have? :) | 05:22 |
| rolandchan | I've started talking to lsell about distribution. It would be good for the Foundation to kick in a small incentive to eliminate self selection bias, but it would be unbudgeted, so setting my expectations accordingly. | 05:22 |
| fifieldt | we have about 8-10 reasonably functional translation teams | 05:22 |
| rolandchan | the only blocker here is time. We need to execute the survey and perform the analysis before the summit. | 05:23 |
| rolandchan | I will do what I can in parallel to getting the survey executed. | 05:23 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 05:24 |
| kavit | so that brings me to my next item | 05:24 |
| kavit | I propose we ask the Ambassadors to help us reach users groups to get participants for the survey | 05:24 |
| kavit | I think there is a large overlap between the foundation members and user group members | 05:25 |
| rolandchan | I was intending to randomly sample the foundation membership | 05:25 |
| fifieldt | do you think we'll get enough numbers that way? | 05:25 |
| annilai | I think in general people in tech can read in English .. speaking is a bigger challenge. I think if we don't have time, we can skip translation of the survey | 05:25 |
| fifieldt | when we email all of the 30k foundation members to ask them to fill out the user survey, we only get something like 1k (includes other channels) | 05:26 |
| kavit | rolandchan, were you going to ask the foundation to email the members with the link to the survey? | 05:26 |
| rolandchan | I'm not across the exact process, but I was planning to get a random sampling of the membership and use that to drive a surveymonkey mailout | 05:26 |
| fifieldt | I guess what I'm saying is: expect a response rate of <3% from your sample | 05:27 |
| rolandchan | then let that bake for a week or so, and do a second set if the response rate was insufficient. | 05:27 |
| rolandchan | That's why I want an incentive. | 05:27 |
| rolandchan | The question is: will the Foundation pay $20K for better data? | 05:28 |
| annilai | An OpenStack t-shirt for completing the survey | 05:28 |
| fifieldt | the user survey has had swag incentive before :) I think that got response rates up to double digit numbers | 05:28 |
| kavit | hrm credit at the openstack store? | 05:28 |
| rolandchan | I was thinking something fungible. | 05:28 |
| rolandchan | Actual User Value. | 05:28 |
| kavit | money? | 05:29 |
| annilai | Better - OpenStack diversity t-shirt ! | 05:29 |
| kavit | bitcoin! | 05:29 |
| rolandchan | So, assuming we can get a 10% response rate, I'll need a 10K sample. | 05:29 |
| fifieldt | so, we're expecting a problem with response rates, but instead of emailing everyone, we're choosing a smaller sample size? | 05:29 |
| rolandchan | without incentive, I'll need to do a full membership mailout | 05:30 |
| ozstacker | Foundation has all that cash that was reserved for tax to spend now! | 05:30 |
| ozstacker | 501c6 FTW! | 05:30 |
| kavit | so what is the deadline we want to hit for the survey to go out? | 05:30 |
| * fifieldt wonders if he has other data on response rates from foundation mailouts | 05:31 | |
| kavit | simmit in under 8 weeks | 05:31 |
| rolandchan | I'd say I have about 3 weeks. | 05:31 |
| rolandchan | probably 2, actually. | 05:31 |
| fifieldt | just to let you know, I think user survey marketing will ramp up in a big way on Sep 14/15 | 05:32 |
| fifieldt | or so | 05:32 |
| rolandchan | excellent. | 05:32 |
| fifieldt | might want to coordinate with Lauren | 05:32 |
| rolandchan | yep. have reached out to her. | 05:32 |
| kavit | OK so we need to engage someone from the foundation to get this out ASAP | 05:32 |
| fifieldt | don't want confusion, cool | 05:32 |
| fifieldt | user survey will finish on sep 25th | 05:33 |
| fifieldt | so maybe the diversity survey marketing kicks off after that | 05:33 |
| fifieldt | *shrug* | 05:33 |
| fifieldt | Lauren will know what to do :) | 05:33 |
| rolandchan | That timing is not so bad. I will report back! | 05:33 |
| kavit | cool | 05:33 |
| kavit | next topic? | 05:34 |
| rolandchan | pls | 05:34 |
| kavit | #topic Geo Diversity Update | 05:34 |
| kavit | We have reached out to the Gold members and Ambassadors to encourage more people to join these meetings | 05:35 |
| rolandchan | And Tom and Anni joined. Winning! | 05:35 |
| kavit | we are seeing good numbers in the US/Europe meetings | 05:35 |
| kavit | I guess we need more people from APAC | 05:35 |
| annilai | yes! | 05:35 |
| annilai | Africa ? Latin America ? | 05:36 |
| kavit | what can we do to encourage this? | 05:36 |
| kavit | I think we can use the user groups portal to find the active groups in these areas | 05:36 |
| kavit | and approach people | 05:36 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 05:37 |
| annilai | announce diversity WG at all the meetups, regional events .. | 05:37 |
| kavit | I think once we have the user data we can also use that to get people from these areas become more invested | 05:37 |
| rolandchan | There's a published schedule of regional meetups etc isn't there? | 05:38 |
| kavit | yes | 05:38 |
| fifieldt | http://openstack.org/events sucks in the data from groups.openstack.org | 05:38 |
| annilai | do we have a mission statement for this diversity WG ? | 05:38 |
| rolandchan | we have a charter. | 05:38 |
| kavit | although not all the groups are diligent in publishing meetups in advance | 05:39 |
| kavit | yes we do, it a pretty nifty charter, if I do say so myself | 05:39 |
| rolandchan | annilai: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity | 05:39 |
| annilai | thanks ! | 05:39 |
| annilai | is there a diversity session or infomercial at the Tokyo summit? | 05:40 |
| kavit | yeah there is a diversity session | 05:40 |
| kavit | Imad, Egle and I are leading it | 05:40 |
| annilai | maybe we can do an infomercial and host a party at the summit to attract more folks to join the WG | 05:42 |
| rolandchan | Looks like some good meetups to hit with the diversity message: Brasil, Benelux, China and a bunch of things in the US. | 05:42 |
| kavit | #task kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG | 05:43 |
| rolandchan | #action kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG | 05:43 |
| rolandchan | is #task a thing? | 05:43 |
| kavit | dunno | 05:43 |
| rolandchan | #whee! | 05:44 |
| fifieldt | http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference | 05:44 |
| fifieldt | I think it's #action | 05:44 |
| kavit | yeah | 05:44 |
| kavit | annilai, how do we get $ for party etc | 05:45 |
| kavit | we ask sponsors? | 05:45 |
| annilai | Sponsor or Foundaton | 05:45 |
| kavit | you want to work on that anni? | 05:45 |
| annilai | Sure, should I talk to Lauren and seek her advice? | 05:46 |
| kavit | yeah | 05:46 |
| annilai | Ok, I will take this action | 05:46 |
| kavit | #action annilai to investigate promoting diversity WG & seek advice from lsell | 05:46 |
| kavit | OK next topic? | 05:47 |
| rolandchan | yup | 05:47 |
| kavit | #topic Data Analysis & Code of Conduct Review | 05:48 |
| kavit | anyone from those teams here? | 05:48 |
| rolandchan | don't think so | 05:48 |
| kavit | ok I guess we will look at the minutes from the US time meeting | 05:48 |
| kavit | OK | 05:48 |
| kavit | time for new proposals | 05:48 |
| rolandchan | just a sec | 05:48 |
| kavit | k | 05:49 |
| rolandchan | the data analysis needs to be complete at pretty much the same time as the survey data arrives. | 05:49 |
| rolandchan | so, I'm guessing 2nd week of October at the very latest. | 05:49 |
| rolandchan | #action amanadap to confirm schedule for data analysis | 05:50 |
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| rolandchan | sorry to hand out actions to people who aren't here. | 05:50 |
| rolandchan | ok. I'm done | 05:50 |
| kavit | cool | 05:51 |
| kavit | new topics | 05:51 |
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| kavit | #topic new proposals and items to be tabled | 05:52 |
| kavit | OK | 05:54 |
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| kavit | I guess if there is nothing else we can end this meeting | 05:55 |
| rolandchan | okeydoke | 05:55 |
| annilai | Bye! | 05:55 |
| kavit | #endmeeting | 05:55 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 10 05:55:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015/2015/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015.2015-09-10-05.00.html | 05:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015/2015/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015.2015-09-10-05.00.txt | 05:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015/2015/diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015.2015-09-10-05.00.log.html | 05:55 |
| rolandchan | thanks all. see you later. | 05:55 |
| kavit | thanks for joining, laters | 05:55 |
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