| *** wendar has joined #openstack-diversity | 00:30 | |
| *** janki has joined #openstack-diversity | 06:12 | |
| *** janki has quit IRC | 11:56 | |
| *** ChanServ has quit IRC | 13:08 | |
| *** ChanServ has joined #openstack-diversity | 13:18 | |
| *** barjavel.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ | 13:18 | |
| *** janki has joined #openstack-diversity | 13:20 | |
| *** janki has quit IRC | 13:20 | |
| *** janki has joined #openstack-diversity | 13:20 | |
| *** aprice has joined #openstack-diversity | 15:10 | |
| *** janki has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| *** lsekl has joined #openstack-diversity | 16:27 | |
| *** lsell__ has joined #openstack-diversity | 17:21 | |
| spotz | Meeting in 20 | 19:39 |
|---|---|---|
| *** cdent has joined #openstack-diversity | 19:52 | |
| *** eumel8 has joined #openstack-diversity | 19:52 | |
| *** AlanClark has joined #openstack-diversity | 19:58 | |
| *** annabelleB has joined #openstack-diversity | 20:00 | |
| spotz | Let's get this party started | 20:00 |
| spotz | #startmeeting diversity-wg | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 11 20:00:28 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 20:00 |
| aprice | o/ | 20:00 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-kickoff | 20:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 20:00 |
| spotz | Etherpad for those who need it | 20:00 |
| eumel8 | o/ | 20:00 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 20:01 | |
| lsell__ | o/ thanks for organizing! | 20:01 |
| eumel8 | \o/ | 20:02 |
| spotz | Ha was about to thank everyone for joining, I think we have more here for the kick off then our last meetings last go round | 20:02 |
| spotz | I've got a rather loose agenda due too the fact it's right before the holidays and we are missing a few people who were interested, but I didn't want to wait too long to have a kickoff | 20:03 |
| annabelleB | o/ | 20:03 |
| spotz | #topic Goals for the Working Group | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Goals for the Working Group (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 20:04 | |
| spotz | While I do have picking a chair on the agenda I thought we'd start with setting some goals for the group. | 20:05 |
| spotz | I'm working on getting a copy of our original survey and the results, but I'd like to see us do a follow-up and wee where we are 2 years later | 20:06 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 20:06 |
| spotz | Are there any thoughts on that as at least the first outcome goal for the group? | 20:07 |
| *** dc48 has joined #openstack-diversity | 20:07 | |
| lsell__ | I'm interested in getting more visibility into diversity metrics being gender. We currently track the number of women in leadership positions, attending events, speaking, etc | 20:07 |
| lsell__ | *beyond not being | 20:07 |
| AlanClark | o/ | 20:07 |
| dc48 | o/ | 20:08 |
| fungi | i suppose we do some limited breakdown of geographic diversity across our contributor base, right? | 20:08 |
| fungi | want to say i've seen maps of that stuff in the past | 20:08 |
| lsell__ | Yay dc48 first irc meeting! :) | 20:09 |
| spotz | lsell__: Yeah and that was part of the original survey, nationality, race, etc. Now during somoe discussions we had discussed multiple follow-ups with everything including political type questions. Which may or may not be feasible | 20:09 |
| lsell__ | Yes good point on geographic fungi | 20:09 |
| fungi | i seem to recall a fair amount of (in my opinion justifiable) pushback against surveying about politics and religions, since those factors arguably have little impact on the ability of people to participate and tracking that sort of stuff is a slippery slope | 20:10 |
| spotz | fungi: I'm pretty sure it's available as we say something like 17000 contributers from 150 countries and 350 companies. Stats may not be accurate:) | 20:10 |
| fungi | heh, stats are _rarely_ accurate, but better than having none at all! | 20:10 |
| spotz | fungi I'm not sure some stuff like politics is feasible because of how international we are. I think that's how we ended up with the more abbreviated first survey | 20:11 |
| spotz | We also had the issue of minority. So I believe it was worded as do you feel like a minority. As in someonoe's home country they might not be where in the US they would be | 20:12 |
| annabelleB | spotz: is there a place where we can see the original survey questions? | 20:12 |
| fungi | and a lot of that comes back to cultural marginalization, which is hard to characterize across cultures | 20:12 |
| spotz | annabelleB: I had hit Erin up to see if she had it. If not I can try to bring up my old Rackspace email somehow | 20:13 |
| annabelleB | we need a baseline to assess against, but it sounds like maybe the “baseline” just needs to be reviewed and rerun to start? | 20:13 |
| spotz | eglute might have it as well but I think she's visiting her folks | 20:13 |
| fungi | was there a copy linked from the board meeting minutes where it got presented? | 20:13 |
| spotz | annabelleB: Agree, it's over 2 years old at this point so an outdated baseline | 20:14 |
| spotz | fungi: Not sure how/where it was presented though I suspect a mailing list and we had a room in Tokyo | 20:14 |
| * mrhillsman agrees as well but could be interesting to see the data that was collected | 20:14 | |
| aprice | spotz: we did it through the Foundation survey monkey account | 20:15 |
| spotz | I know the number of respondents was extremely. low at the time | 20:15 |
| aprice | So we can pull it up and share | 20:15 |
| fungi | i recall a presentation was made to the board, but i don't recall now whether they were provided with a copy of the questions in that presentation nor which board meeting it was. maybe AlanClark remembers | 20:15 |
| spotz | aprice: Great, that'll give us a start | 20:15 |
| annabelleB | aprice: awesome! agree with mrhillsman, would probably be worth reassessing how it was collected, questions, etc | 20:15 |
| aprice | I can take that action item of locating and distributing | 20:15 |
| mrhillsman | i personally am interested in the numbers around blacks involved then vs now | 20:15 |
| * AlanClark looking for the presentation | 20:16 | |
| spotz | I think we will probably need to reword some of the questions before we re-do the survey. Also have a plan in place to request participants a second time a few weeks out | 20:16 |
| spotz | That's just normal survey proceedure thoguh | 20:17 |
| spotz | Does anyone feel we should set any more goals to start? I personally feel we should get a base to see where we are so that we can figure out next goals | 20:19 |
| spotz | #action aprice to get a hold of older survey | 20:19 |
| fungi | seems like a good initial goal to get things rolling again | 20:19 |
| spotz | close:) | 20:19 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 20:20 |
| spotz | hrm, action should have worked! | 20:20 |
| aprice | It did :) | 20:20 |
| spotz | #action AlanClark to find presentation to board | 20:21 |
| spotz | Oh sweet, didn't see a message from the bot. Ok so we've got 2 action items to get us started | 20:21 |
| spotz | Anything else for goals before we move on? | 20:22 |
| lsell__ | My only caution is that I don't think a relatively small survey will give us any real demographics, especially to compare over time, but it can give us insights. I think we need a better way to track relevant demographics in the foundation profiles, but that's probably stage 3... | 20:22 |
| fungi | the meetbot is generally quiet about #action additions | 20:22 |
| cdent | I assume the general notion here is figuring out where we are is required to go somewhere else? | 20:23 |
| spotz | lsell__: That's why I'd like to re-survey and also follow up to increase our response rate. Profiles and possibly summit/ptg registrations might be ways of getting more data too | 20:23 |
| cdent | We can all probably make some fairly obvious conclusions already, is there anything we can do with that? | 20:23 |
| spotz | cdent: Well first go around we were expecting barriers to be language when the #1 barrier was tools. That's why I've been doing the zgit and Gerrit Lunch and Learns since Tokyo. So we get side effects we didn't expect | 20:24 |
| *** ildikov has joined #openstack-diversity | 20:24 | |
| * cdent nods | 20:24 | |
| fungi | yeah, it seems less of a "where are we" and more of a "where are we compared to two years ago" | 20:25 |
| mrhillsman | agreed | 20:25 |
| * ildikov is apologizing for showing up super late :/ | 20:25 | |
| spotz | So where we are in relation to 2 years ago, what's changed demographics/response wise and what are the current need of the community | 20:25 |
| annabelleB | redoing the survey is a good time to put in things like “how did you get started”/ “what has helped” type of questions so we can crosstab with people in leadership roles/core roles and look for any patterns | 20:25 |
| spotz | Yeah so we can definitely add to it, make sure the wording we used previously is clear, etc | 20:26 |
| AlanClark | Here's a report the Diversity Team gave to the Board in July 2015: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yyjv3hobjI7Sh27nQJRW1Zira15T63ZP7m_I0CKL_pw/edit | 20:26 |
| fungi | or even more direct questions about the efficacy of the measures we've put in place in an attempt to address some of the disparity | 20:26 |
| spotz | AlanClark: Ok that looks like pre-survey itself but gives an idea of the phases that were initially discussed | 20:28 |
| spotz | And we can also see if/how we can tie in to CHAOSS | 20:28 |
| AlanClark | yes - it's pre-study... but contains a link to a study that may be helpful | 20:29 |
| AlanClark | I'm still looking for post-study | 20:29 |
| spotz | I remember that link:) | 20:29 |
| fungi | i have fairly vivid memories of eglute presenting some analysis of the survey results at a bod meeting, just wish i could recall which one it was | 20:29 |
| spotz | fungi it would have been before/around Tokyo | 20:30 |
| mrhillsman | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversityArchives | 20:30 |
| spotz | The original group died out after Austin | 20:31 |
| aprice | Yeah it was done pre Tokyo so probably the summit board meeting in October 2015 | 20:31 |
| mrhillsman | geo data as of 9/15 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/c/c9/MemberGeoData-20150903.pdf | 20:31 |
| spotz | I don't thin we ever ask anywhere what country you are from/reside in for profiles. So that data could be off IP? | 20:32 |
| aprice | Country isn't mandatory but I think we ask for it in Foundation profile. Checking with our team | 20:34 |
| fungi | yes, foundation profiles have street address (1/2), city, state, postcode and country fields | 20:34 |
| spotz | But yeah the OpenStack version of diversity is broader then other groups which is a good thing, we just need to figure out how to collect and report on it. That was the one issue I had with some of the CHAOSS discussions at Open Source Summit | 20:34 |
| fungi | curious to know how their model differs | 20:36 |
| fungi | is there any writeup summarizing that? | 20:36 |
| spotz | Well for one thing someone for red hat responded to talking about diversity as where it was in the oopen source process. Mainly company contributers, a mix, or folks from all over:) | 20:37 |
| spotz | So I think CHAOSS will be broad enough for everyone to define their own criteris, I'm just not sure it'll meld for good overall comparison | 20:38 |
| fungi | ahh, got iy | 20:39 |
| fungi | it | 20:39 |
| spotz | That also was the week it got announced, ildikov may have a more recent impression | 20:39 |
| spotz | We're at about the 20 minute mark left, so maybe give this another few minutes and then move on to Chair/co-chair how we want to organize | 20:42 |
| spotz | Ok moving on, we're at 15 minutes and counting | 20:45 |
| spotz | #topic chair/co-chair | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "chair/co-chair (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 20:45 | |
| AlanClark | question: Do we keep the IRC logs from years past? Those logs would contain links to the survey | 20:46 |
| spotz | I had though the chairs last go round we're Egle and Carol but reading that report to the board there were 3 | 20:46 |
| ildikov | spotz: CHAOSS has a new diversity and inclusion project | 20:46 |
| spotz | AlanClark: They were logged but I'm not sure if they got deleted when we lost the channel bot. Fungi? | 20:47 |
| ildikov | spotz: at this point our earlier survey is one the main inputs to that one beyond general interest | 20:47 |
| spotz | ildikov: Oh good to hear | 20:47 |
| fungi | yeah, old logs are kept indefinitely | 20:47 |
| ildikov | spotz: we have guys from Bitergia who were involved so the connection is there from multiple sides | 20:47 |
| fungi | looks like the meeting used to use "diversity" instead of "diversity-wg" so can be found under that | 20:48 |
| spotz | ildikov: Yeah I know Daniel wasn't involved originally but has been doing some alaysis since at least Barcelona | 20:48 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity/ old diversity meeting minutes | 20:48 |
| spotz | fungi: When I do the new meeting patch I'll switch us back to that and just put a link to this meeting's logs | 20:49 |
| fungi | that works too | 20:49 |
| ildikov | spotz: yeah | 20:49 |
| spotz | or talk you into renaming this one batch:) | 20:49 |
| fungi | needs a bunch of stream editing applied to the files since the html versions embed hyperlinks | 20:50 |
| spotz | Ok so back on topic, do we want to have one chair, multiple chairs? And who might be interested? | 20:50 |
| spotz | Ok I'll just link this oone set some where | 20:50 |
| ildikov | spotz: I will try to ensure to keep both sides up to date | 20:50 |
| spotz | thanks ildikov | 20:51 |
| ildikov | spotz: we can also suggest metrics to CHAOSS if we feel something worked out well for us, etc | 20:51 |
| *** annabelleB has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| cdent | spotz: are you willing/able to chair? If so, you seem like a good choice :) | 20:53 |
| fungi | i second that ;) | 20:53 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 20:53 |
| spotz | cdent I definitely can if that's the consensus solo or as a co | 20:53 |
| ildikov | +1 :) | 20:54 |
| aprice | +1 | 20:55 |
| spotz | Ok done, and if anyone would like to co-chair just let me know. | 20:55 |
| spotz | #topic future meetings | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "future meetings (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 20:55 | |
| spotz | We will need to find a different time/day so I'll send out a new doodle. This is the revolving slot for WoO and OUI. Does anyone have a day/time that just won't work? Or leave it to the hands of the doodle? | 20:56 |
| cdent | doodle | 20:57 |
| mrhillsman | doodle | 20:57 |
| fungi | (or framadate) | 20:57 |
| SWDevAngel__ | Hi Team - sorry to be joining in so late. I️ reviewed the above but didn’t see a mention to the Bitergia survey that was done. | 20:58 |
| SWDevAngel__ | Would that be useful? | 20:58 |
| spotz | I'd like to see the possibility of getting some APAC representation. Last go round we had 2 meetings but there was little attendance in the APAC one | 20:58 |
| SWDevAngel__ | I️ think Nithya has the links to that. | 20:58 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel__: If she has them that'd be great. The more links to stuff we've done in the past the better | 20:58 |
| aprice | I have links to the bitergia survey but that was just gender | 20:58 |
| spotz | aprice: Ok so back to searching survey monkey or my old email:) | 20:59 |
| SWDevAngel__ | Right. They were working on another one. I️ know we put them in touch with Lauren after the Boston Summit, but not sure if it went further. | 20:59 |
| SWDevAngel__ | They were also looking at adding disabilities, etc. | 20:59 |
| *** annabelleB has joined #openstack-diversity | 20:59 | |
| aprice | For the November version, it was just gender | 21:00 |
| spotz | FYI 1 minute left in the official meeting, but as it's our channel we can go over:) | 21:00 |
| SWDevAngel__ | Ahhh okay. | 21:00 |
| spotz | For anyone who has to get going, thank you soo much for joining in today! | 21:00 |
| aprice | spotz: Thanks for running! | 21:01 |
| SWDevAngel__ | Yes, thanks Amy! | 21:01 |
| spotz | You're welcome aprice and SWDevAngel__ | 21:02 |
| cdent | spotz: on which list will the doodle poll end up | 21:03 |
| spotz | #endmeeting | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New meeting poll doodle https://doodle.com/poll/f4h9es9tfipx9nz8 Meeting etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-kickoff" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 11 21:03:09 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:03 |
| mrhillsman | thanks spotz for chairing :) | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2017/diversity_wg.2017-12-11-20.00.html | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2017/diversity_wg.2017-12-11-20.00.txt | 21:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2017/diversity_wg.2017-12-11-20.00.log.html | 21:03 |
| cdent | oh duh, sorry | 21:03 |
| spotz | cdent: Because diverty WG is under the board we use the foundation@ list with [diversity] in the subject | 21:03 |
| cdent | cool, thanks | 21:03 |
| cdent | gotta go, thanks for running the meeting | 21:04 |
| spotz | I jsut figured I'd close up the meeting log:) | 21:04 |
| spotz | thanks cdent! | 21:04 |
| *** cdent has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| spotz | mrhillsman: Thanks for coming | 21:06 |
| *** AlanClark has quit IRC | 21:06 | |
| fungi | i'll see what i can do to migrate the meeting log to the old diversity series | 21:06 |
| fungi | oh, wow. maybe better if i don't... http://paste.openstack.org/show/628657/ | 21:08 |
| spotz | fungi: Sweet. And we'll see about using the wiki or a single etherpad for agendas going forward too | 21:08 |
| spotz | fungi Um yeah maybe a nice wiki page:) | 21:09 |
| fungi | i vote wiki page or extended set of entries in the meeting description | 21:10 |
| spotz | +1 | 21:10 |
| fungi | but yeah, trying to clean up history there is not going to be time well-spent, sorry! | 21:11 |
| spotz | Nope not at all, if it was just today it's another story | 21:12 |
| *** annabelleB has quit IRC | 21:19 | |
| *** eumel8 has quit IRC | 21:24 | |
| *** annabelleB has joined #openstack-diversity | 21:25 | |
| *** annabelleB has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| *** SWDevAngel__ has quit IRC | 23:57 | |
| *** SWDevAngel__ has joined #openstack-diversity | 23:57 | |
| *** jhebden has quit IRC | 23:57 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!