| *** DanCrank has joined #openstack-diversity | 14:52 | |
| spotz | Meeting in 6 minutes! | 16:55 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | yep! in here again according to the announcement you sent | 16:55 |
| spotz | Yep yep | 16:58 |
| megheisler | Thanks for the reminder! | 16:59 |
| spotz | #startmeeting diversity-wg | 17:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 17:04:40 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:04 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 17:04 |
| spotz | not seeing the bot messages:( | 17:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:04 | |
| spotz | there we go | 17:04 |
| fungi | ohai | 17:05 |
| DanCrank | o/ | 17:05 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:05 | |
| spotz | I've got some delays:( | 17:05 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 17:06 |
| spotz | Not much on thte agenda but there's the link | 17:06 |
| spotz | Before we start DanCrank do you want to introduce yourself? | 17:07 |
| DanCrank | Hi! I'm a developer on the Airship team. :) | 17:08 |
| fungi | welcome! | 17:09 |
| DanCrank | Thank you! | 17:10 |
| spotz | Welcome and thanks for joining! | 17:10 |
| spotz | #topic Divisive Language Wiki page | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Divisive Language Wiki page (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:10 | |
| spotz | After our diiscussions on the stance we decided to break off the recommended words away from the stance. After confering with aprice, jimmy, and fungi we decided on a wiki page with a possible link from the stance page | 17:11 |
| fungi | yeah, the rationale there is that the "stance" is essentially a statement of support from the board of directors | 17:12 |
| fungi | the list of terminology suggestions and potential alternatives is more of a living document | 17:12 |
| megheisler | I think that’s a good approach, I know there was some pushback on the words | 17:12 |
| fungi | this way we're also not appearing to ask the bod to "approve" a list of word suggestions | 17:13 |
| fungi | that can be an ongoing brainstorming collaboration between projects | 17:13 |
| spotz | And the wiki will allow for us to have more controll/quicker edits | 17:13 |
| fungi | yes, and if we do see it start to get vandalized, i can help tighten down access to it temporarily or rollback damage | 17:14 |
| spotz | I was hoping to have that started this morning but haven't yet. | 17:14 |
| spotz | fungi - good point on the vandalization. | 17:14 |
| *** SWDevAngel has joined #openstack-diversity | 17:15 | |
| spotz | For those who didn't see the backscroll the agenda etherpad had been wiiped out | 17:15 |
| megheisler | Oh! I thought it just lagging for me | 17:15 |
| megheisler | That’s quite unfortunate | 17:15 |
| SWDevAngel | Hi @spotz I'm double-booked this morning and on another meeting. I was hoping to join the meeting if it was in IRC but I can't join the video in jitsi because I'm on video on another call. 😔 | 17:16 |
| spotz | I just went back in the history and restored it so no lose | 17:16 |
| fungi | SWDevAngel: it's irc anyway | 17:16 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel: IRC for the win:) | 17:16 |
| fungi | you're in luck! | 17:16 |
| spotz | But yeah good news we can lock down the wiki page if needed hadn't even thought about that | 17:17 |
| fungi | we do see folks' autotranslation browser extensions sometimes wipe out/replace etherpad content, so that's not something i'm inclined to assume was malicious. but we should keep an eye on it | 17:17 |
| spotz | And except for one language meeting notes it's just boring agendas so I really want to say accident | 17:18 |
| SWDevAngel | Ah! Thanks @fungi ... I saw the Jitsi link in the etherpad and I was late so I didn't see the messages from the beginning. :) | 17:18 |
| spotz | Does anyone want to volunteer to work on the page otherwise I'll do it later while I have systems deploying | 17:19 |
| fungi | i'm happy to do it | 17:19 |
| spotz | Swwet Thank Fungi | 17:19 |
| fungi | i should have time this afternoon | 17:19 |
| fungi | i'll mention in here once there's an initial version up and then folks can help tweak it as needed | 17:20 |
| spotz | I was thinking for the time being a link from the WG page and then we'll get the more formal one | 17:20 |
| megheisler | Thanks fungi ! | 17:20 |
| fungi | we can also move wiki pages to new names if desired, so whatever name/url it starts with doesn't have to be final | 17:21 |
| spotz | I asked Alan if we needed to vote on the stance in tomorrow's meeting and he didn't think we needed to. He did give me 10 minutes for it though so I'll probably throw a slide or 2 together and make sure everyone is good with it and then reach out to aprice and Jimmy about getting it in the governance. If it's a patch I can do that if it's the webmaster we'll need help | 17:22 |
| aprice | sounds good! | 17:22 |
| fungi | cool, i forgot it would likely come up in the board meeting tomorrow. i'll prioritize getting the wiki copy of the wordlist done here shortly in that case to give folks a little more opportunity to polish it | 17:23 |
| spotz | So with those 2 things that finishes off our divisive language work. I have joined the Inclusive Naming group and if needed we can address/update our stuff as needed as far as the wiki | 17:24 |
| fungi | what's the frequency/method they use to collaborate? | 17:24 |
| spotz | fungi: I went to one and II want to say biiweekly and zoom but give me a second to find it | 17:25 |
| spotz | Bi-weekly zoom, they alsoo have a mailing list | 17:25 |
| fungi | ahh, cool | 17:26 |
| spotz | I can get anyone who wants it more information. | 17:26 |
| megheisler | yes please | 17:26 |
| spotz | https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/inclusivenaming/CAFVSqg2HvmD%2BHQUkdtc2rMLV13C_o6zTZX9rkbNTHpMjyfLPFg%40mail.gmail.com. | 17:26 |
| fungi | and that's primarily a cncf/lf community effort, right? | 17:27 |
| megheisler | thank you | 17:27 |
| spotz | I'm more organized with my email then browser tabs:) | 17:27 |
| spotz | I believe so, they're trying to get more communities and companies involved | 17:27 |
| spotz | As that was our main topic let's open the floor maybe discuss what we want to work on for next year | 17:29 |
| spotz | #topic Open Discussion | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:29 | |
| spotz | There's a few things we could get involved with: Re-doing the iversity Survey as it's been 2 years, maybe try to get the OIF events to pass the CHAOSS D&I badging criteria. Any thoughts on those or other solutions. And DanCrankjust FYI if Airship wants to run a diversity survey for the project we're here to help with things like that. We report to the board not OpenStack | 17:32 |
| fungi | ildikov has been somewhat involved in chaoss stuff from the oif side if we want to get her input on that | 17:33 |
| megheisler | I wasn't involved in the last diversity survey, are those result/questions asked still viewable? | 17:33 |
| DanCrank | Is it a survey of the team members, or a survey of the state of the project / codebase? | 17:34 |
| spotz | fungi: Sounds good, I'm in their D&I group and recently joined the board though we haven't met since I did | 17:34 |
| SWDevAngel | It's a survey of the community right? | 17:34 |
| spotz | megheisler: There should be, if not I can find it for you | 17:34 |
| fungi | correct, it's an open survey | 17:34 |
| fungi | we ask the people who take the survey to classify their involvement in the community, but we don't limit participants in any way | 17:35 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel DanCrank - It has been a community survey though Dan't question does bring up whether we want to get involved in checking docs. Not sure we do | 17:35 |
| spotz | can't type Dan's | 17:35 |
| SWDevAngel | I was wondering what kind of follow-up we wanted to plan to make sure all the work we did this summer/fall around inclusive language is implemented, and letting the teams know we're still here if they run into issues. | 17:37 |
| spotz | That's why I'm presenting to the board tomorrow as there were recommendations like a deadline to have a plan in place from the projects | 17:37 |
| megheisler | perhaps a self reporting way of the code base? We could include in the survey | 17:37 |
| fungi | the only immediate outcome i expect within projects is for this to get the conversation going | 17:38 |
| fungi | i don't think the board imposing deadlines on community projects is likely to go over at all well, for the record | 17:38 |
| fungi | (for one thing, they really don't have any authority in this) | 17:39 |
| spotz | As we've done in the past we could put a question in like do you find the documentation/code to be inclusive? We have been prett vague in the past so as to know it was OpenStack but not know if it was nova or neutron for example so folks couldn't be identified. | 17:39 |
| spotz | Now an Airship survey for example we'd know airship but if every thing is 'one' project it could be more identifying which could result in fewer responses because folks think they can be identified | 17:40 |
| megheisler | Would adding a question along the lines of 'has there been a discussion on language?' be something we could consider as well | 17:40 |
| spotz | But in a way it might be better data | 17:40 |
| fungi | yeah, these seem like useful additions to the project surveys (distinct from the diversity survey) | 17:41 |
| spotz | Yeah almost sounds like a mini-feedback checkin survey? | 17:41 |
| megheisler | ok, thanks for the distinction | 17:41 |
| fungi | i think working with aprice to get diversity-oriented questions into future project surveys would be a great next step | 17:42 |
| spotz | Sounds like a first part of the year goal for us?:) | 17:42 |
| megheisler | yeah, would make sense to start the year with a check in | 17:43 |
| fungi | we should probably find out asap what the deadline is for finalizing questions in whatever surveys the oif plans to run | 17:43 |
| aprice | yeah, we let the project SIGs/WGs have questions in the surveys, so I think it would be great to add a question or two from the foundation WGs as well | 17:43 |
| aprice | the deadlines are pretty fluid. if we can get them in before the end of Feb, that's when we usually do a big openstack user survey push | 17:43 |
| aprice | the other user surveys arent as complex and all of them are open year round | 17:44 |
| fungi | awesome, thanks aprice! | 17:44 |
| spotz | Ok so that would give us the January meeting and February. I would suggest we use our 'backup' meeting date in January just in case folks are off on the 4th | 17:44 |
| aprice | no problem! | 17:44 |
| fungi | spotz: works for me | 17:45 |
| megheisler | works for me | 17:45 |
| SWDevAngel | Is our backup date the 11th? The following week is Dr. King's observed bday. | 17:45 |
| spotz | So we would meet 1/18 I think is the date, it's from back when we were bii-weekly | 17:45 |
| SWDevAngel | That's a holiday for some companies in the US. | 17:46 |
| SWDevAngel | (I think mine might actually be one of them) | 17:46 |
| spotz | Ok 1/18 is actually MLK so that won't work. Anyone have an issue with 1/11? | 17:47 |
| SWDevAngel | Not sure what message it sends to have a D&I meeting on Dr. King's (observed) bday! 🤣 (Maybe that's exactly when we want to have it? 🤷🏽) | 17:47 |
| fungi | we can also work on refining question text asynchronously if that's easier for folks | 17:47 |
| SWDevAngel | I can do the 11th | 17:47 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel: I read what you typed as 1/11 being MLK:( | 17:47 |
| spotz | Yeah for calendars! | 17:47 |
| spotz | fungi: Yeah maybe get a start in an eitherpad with max 5 questions | 17:48 |
| SWDevAngel | Oh sorry. No. His ACTUAL bday is the 15th so they are doing it on the 18th this year. (not sure who "they" is... but... yeah, them that decides these things!) | 17:48 |
| megheisler | spotz: I can do 1/11 as well | 17:48 |
| megheisler | it's typically observed on a Monday, for what reason I'm not sure but | 17:48 |
| spotz | megheisler: 3 day weekends:) | 17:49 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-project-questions | 17:49 |
| fungi | also whatever questions we're likely to come up with probably apply equally to the various project communities, so hopefully it won't take much time to get a wishlist together of what we'd want to ask of the project survey participants | 17:49 |
| spotz | Ok there's an etherpad we can work from | 17:49 |
| spotz | Yeah goal is to be broad so covers the most ground. megheisler's question of has this been discussed in you project is a great example | 17:50 |
| SWDevAngel | Okay, moving the meeting on my cal now (from the 4th to the 11th). :) | 17:50 |
| fungi | also i expect those surveys draw a different demographic than folks who voluntarily take our diversity survey, so at least there's a different self-selection bias at play and we can draw some new conclusions from the results | 17:51 |
| SWDevAngel | Definitely! | 17:51 |
| megheisler | oh absolutely | 17:51 |
| spotz | So we'll get started on that etherpad, discuss on 1/11. Any IRC or meetpad preference? | 17:51 |
| spotz | I'll need to email out about the change and then also a reminder:) | 17:51 |
| fungi | remember that the people taking these surveys will be a mix of upstream developers, integrators, operators, users... | 17:51 |
| megheisler | fungi: thanks, that's good to keep in mind that perspectives will be mixed a bit | 17:52 |
| fungi | maybe it's just me, but i find text-based meetings easier for collaborating around drafting and editing text | 17:52 |
| spotz | fungi: Yeah there's definitely more in the logs:) I ran last week's RDO meeting in video and tried to take notes. But I'm trying to get folks more social contact due to all the pandemic isolation | 17:54 |
| spotz | We also meet weekly, so one video meeting helps with social and we have better logs the other 3 weeks | 17:54 |
| fungi | yep, i get that not everybody's a reclusive hermit like me ;) | 17:54 |
| SWDevAngel | For now IRC is helpful because I seem to always have another meeting at this time, even if I block my calendar. | 17:54 |
| megheisler | I'll be the odd man out and say I like the jitsi collaboration at least for initial meetings, but I think irc will work just fine. | 17:56 |
| spotz | Ok IRC it is for 1/11 and 2/?:) I'm not checking the calendar but normal Feb day:) | 17:56 |
| fungi | no objections from me | 17:56 |
| spotz | Ok 4 minutes left, anything else anyone wants to discuss? | 17:57 |
| megheisler | 2/1 is the first Monday in Feb. I'll be there! | 17:57 |
| fungi | i have some of the same problems as SWDevAngel, but with most of my meetings already happening in irc i can likely manage a video call at those times if others prefer it | 17:57 |
| megheisler | no no, irc works just fine | 17:57 |
| SWDevAngel | I'm with you meg. I prefer Jitsi or voice for this topic we've been discussing, but in this case I would not have been able to attend. So that's the drawback. | 17:57 |
| spotz | Yeah I missed a community docs meeting but I also was able to make breakfast cause IRC:) | 17:58 |
| spotz | Well don't forget if at anytime someone wants to meet in meetpad to work in stuff not in a meeting we can as well | 17:58 |
| SWDevAngel | Good solution @spotz | 17:59 |
| megheisler | oh great, thanks! | 17:59 |
| fungi | yeah, that service is (should be) up all the time, as long as we're not doing maintenance on it or something | 17:59 |
| spotz | I'm always about at night, so just ping in an email or whatever. I have no life:) | 17:59 |
| spotz | Ok and that's time. Thanks everyone for coming. DanCrank we hope to see you again! | 18:00 |
| fungi | thanks for chairing, spotz! | 18:00 |
| fungi | and thanks for joining us, DanCrank! | 18:00 |
| spotz | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| DanCrank | Thank you! | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Please review the survey at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/OpenStackDiversity and let spotz and/or aprice know if there's anything that needs updating per http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2018/diversity_wg.2018-06-18-19.00.log.html" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 18:00:39 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2020/diversity_wg.2020-12-07-17.04.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2020/diversity_wg.2020-12-07-17.04.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2020/diversity_wg.2020-12-07-17.04.log.html | 18:00 |
| SWDevAngel | @spotz NONE of us have a life at the moment! 😉 | 18:01 |
| fungi | i'll probably link the wordlist wiki page in here in an hour or so | 18:01 |
| megheisler | thanks! | 18:01 |
| fungi | yeah, for lots of people this is the longest they've gone without leaving the house. for me it's a monday | 18:01 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel: I do outdoor stuff with animals but no night stuff | 18:01 |
| spotz | Thanks fungi | 18:01 |
| SWDevAngel | Thanks again for chairing! :) And yes, I was kidding. I don't have furry friends at the moment so I REALLY have no life! 😆 | 18:02 |
| spotz | Ok meeting change emailed out so I won't forget:) | 18:05 |
| spotz | And you're welcome, thanks for coming everyone | 18:05 |
| *** DanCrank has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| fungi | spotz: SWDevAngel: megheisler: (looks like DanCrank has disappeared for now) and anyone else... here's my first go at moving the word list into a wiki article: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity/Inclusivity | 20:09 |
| spotz | Thanks fungi! | 20:09 |
| megheisler | thanks Fungi | 20:10 |
| megheisler | I work with Dan and will send it along | 20:11 |
| fungi | awesome | 20:12 |
| fungi | i've just fixed a couple of typos i didn't spot in the preview earlier | 20:12 |
| SWDevAngel | @fungi @spotz Looks good to me. Maybe one small edit: Not sure if you want edits to the body copy (would that require legal review again)? If so, you may want to add "heterosexism" and "ablism" to this line: "... language which is commonly associated with oppression, racism, and sexism." | 21:01 |
| fungi | we can add whatever we like there, so sure | 21:02 |
| fungi | "opprssive" was sort of our catch-all for any power-imbalance isms, but calling out more specific ones can't hurt | 21:06 |
| fungi | er, "oppressive" | 21:06 |
| spotz | Yeah it's hard to include verything so going broader is a safe fallback | 21:11 |
| fungi | the wording there was only loosely borrowed from the statement for the board, the entire point of the wiki article is that we can expand on whatever makes sense | 21:12 |
| spotz | Yep and change it as needed and as frequently as needed | 22:15 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!