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| megheisler | Before the meeting today, I failed to get feedback after adding the question for the survey to the ether pad. If anyone wants to look at it, the light pink. | 15:44 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | oh, thanks for the reminder! | 15:44 |
| fungi | i suppose "the project" would be replaced by whatever open infrastructure project the survey is about? (openstack, airship, whatever) | 15:46 |
| megheisler | That’s what I would propose, if we can’t do that we may be able to find another word | 15:47 |
| fungi | is that question intended to be freeform response or multiple choice? sounds like a yes/no, except that it's asking them to also indicate a relationship with the project | 15:47 |
| fungi | probably the survey already asks what their relationship to the project is elsewhere, so i have a feeling we could just get by with that particular question asking whether they've observed any impact, and rely on elsewhere in the survey to indicate their relationship | 15:49 |
| megheisler | That’s a good question, the intent was free form but I re read it as yes or no now. I’ll re word it to try to encourage explaining what impact they saw if any | 15:50 |
| fungi | sounds great! | 15:50 |
| fungi | one thing to keep in mind about freeform responses: while the wg members should be able to get a copy of them under nda, we can't publish them without explicit permission, and would have to do some probably cumbersome analysis to derive any statistics from there. with a multiple-choice question that's easily aggregated into anonymous statistics, if we think that would be more useful for longer | 15:54 |
| fungi | term (year on year) measurement of impact | 15:54 |
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| megheisler | oh good to know, thank you! | 15:59 |
| spotz | We can always have a open give more after? I think we were waiting for feedback from jamesmcarthur as to functionality aka if one question could lead to a different one? | 16:09 |
| jamesmcarthur | spotz: I thought I already answered that one, but it is possible to have one question lead to a different one. | 16:09 |
| spotz | Ah cool thanks jamesmcarthur:) | 16:10 |
| jamesmcarthur | np :) | 16:10 |
| spotz | My circle backs ofter are because I forget or fear I forgot:) | 16:10 |
| spotz | often even:) | 16:10 |
| spotz | And aprice has the etherpad so with Meg's new question I think we're done, but we can add that to the agenda for today just in case | 16:11 |
| spotz | Added for finalization:) | 16:12 |
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| spotz | Meeting in 1 minute! | 16:59 |
| megheisler | I can't remember and can't find the email, are we on irc or jitsi today? | 16:59 |
| spotz | I went with IRC cause I wasn't sure where we were:) | 16:59 |
| megheisler | works just fine for me :) | 17:00 |
| spotz | #startmeeting diversity-wg | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 1 17:00:31 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| SWDevAngel | IRC works for me. I have a hard stop at the bottom of the hour but will join for 30 mins | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 17:00 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:00 | |
| spotz | Agenda link | 17:01 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 17:01 |
| fungi | ahoy! | 17:01 |
| megheisler | \o | 17:01 |
| spotz | Greetings | 17:01 |
| spotz | #topic Auditing the OIF Bylaws | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Auditing the OIF Bylaws (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:02 | |
| fungi | this sounds exciting | 17:03 |
| spotz | SO in the board meeting last week while reviewing some sections it was pointed out the chair was referred to as He everywhere. So we got the action item of looking through and seeing where those are and finding other issues | 17:04 |
| SWDevAngel | Feel free to "take notes" in the etherpad. I put a few in and will continue until 9:30am PT. | 17:04 |
| spotz | SWDevAngel: The bot logs everything:) | 17:04 |
| SWDevAngel | Okay, then I'll just note the highlights. ;) | 17:04 |
| spotz | It's only the jitsu meetings we need to take notes | 17:04 |
| SWDevAngel | ahhh, got it. | 17:04 |
| spotz | But thanks:) | 17:05 |
| SWDevAngel | Sure. Just trying to be helpful. :) | 17:05 |
| fungi | also if we want to highlight anything in the generated minutes we can use directives like #info or #agreed | 17:05 |
| spotz | #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/bylaws-of-the-openstack-foundation/ | 17:06 |
| spotz | I believe these are the docs we were looking through. Some parts of the docs the Board can edit themselves but some sections would need legal and member sto vote on | 17:07 |
| megheisler | While going through, should we keep an eye out for other language as well? | 17:08 |
| SWDevAngel | I don't see why not. Catch everything you can! | 17:08 |
| spotz | Yep definitely, the issue came out because Alan was He and Allison is She so we need non-gender changes. So that is a given | 17:09 |
| spotz | But if anyone sees anything else let's make note if it. Let me make an etherpad. And I'll also confirm iif there's any other sections of the site we need to focus on | 17:10 |
| megheisler | Thank you | 17:10 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-legal-audit | 17:10 |
| spotz | And of course I can't find the tab I just opened the docs in:( | 17:11 |
| SWDevAngel | I'm with ya on "tab sprawl" ... it's real! | 17:12 |
| spotz | fungi: Do you happen to have the opendev link for the bylaws? | 17:13 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/bylaws-of-the-openstack-foundation BYLAWS OF THE OPENSTACK FOUNDATION | 17:14 |
| fungi | that's still the current url afaik | 17:15 |
| fungi | ahh, you already linked that earlier | 17:15 |
| fungi | what are you looking for? | 17:15 |
| fungi | source code? | 17:16 |
| spotz | During the board meeting we had some opendev links which was a little newer then openstack | 17:17 |
| fungi | huh, i'm not aware of any of that being in opendev | 17:17 |
| fungi | openinfra.dev maybe? | 17:17 |
| spotz | For example in OpenStack corporate sponsoors on opendev silver membership was the term | 17:18 |
| fungi | jamesmcarthur: ^ maybe you're aware of a newer copy of the bylaws published elsewhere? | 17:19 |
| spotz | And the bylaws may not be different between the two:) | 17:19 |
| spotz | If I find any more pages I'll add it to the etherpad page | 17:20 |
| jamesmcarthur | We are in the middle of updating the language on all of the legal docs. Working with the lawyers. | 17:20 |
| jamesmcarthur | The bylaws currently live on openstack.org | 17:20 |
| spotz | jamesmcarthur: Sounds good. We'll focus on those | 17:21 |
| fungi | yeah, i didn't think there was a newer url for those | 17:21 |
| fungi | thanks for confirming jamesmcarthur! | 17:21 |
| spotz | The tab method of storing work is not the best workflow:) | 17:21 |
| fungi | i use the "dump urls in a text file" methid, which has the benefit of reducing my open tabs, but is otherwise not all that much better | 17:22 |
| megheisler | I always vow to find a better workflow, open some tabs to research, then forget and close :P it doesn't work either | 17:22 |
| spotz | Ok anything else we want to discuss today on this? Or we'll go put stuff in the etherpad and circle back to discuss next meeting | 17:22 |
| fungi | 20 open tabs on how to have fewer open tabs ;) | 17:22 |
| SWDevAngel | ha ha | 17:23 |
| spotz | I have well over 100 plus 2 broswers with multiple windows:) | 17:23 |
| SWDevAngel | I have a question... are there any upcoming events on the horizon? Even stuff y'all are attending but not sponsoring. Just curious where everyone is planning on hanging out all winter/spring? | 17:24 |
| megheisler | spotz: I started documenting in the etherpad already, we can all probably take some time to do that before the next meeting and circle back | 17:24 |
| spotz | megheisler=purple:) | 17:24 |
| megheisler | Ooops, always forget to add my name, done now | 17:25 |
| spotz | Well like I'm always green fungi=black, etc:) | 17:25 |
| SWDevAngel | I dunno why it makes me that mauve/pink color. I really don't like that color. | 17:26 |
| fungi | i found an easy color to reapply every time my cookie gets reset | 17:26 |
| fungi | it just picks a random color for you and tries to persist it in a session cookie, but you can select a color with the color wheel | 17:26 |
| spotz | Yeah I just always change to some green | 17:26 |
| spotz | Ok moving on:) | 17:27 |
| fungi | however i find the cookie it's in expires or gets blown away from time to time | 17:27 |
| spotz | #topic finalizing questions for the User Survey | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "finalizing questions for the User Survey (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:27 | |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-project-questions | 17:27 |
| spotz | Are we good and happy with these? Jimmy answered we can have one question leading to another question based on response | 17:28 |
| megheisler | I re worded the one question to multiple choice if anyone has a thought there, but otherwise I was happier with it | 17:29 |
| spotz | happier now or before? | 17:30 |
| megheisler | now | 17:30 |
| spotz | Ok sweet | 17:30 |
| megheisler | the answer is more definitive and won't require anyone to share a personal grievance that may identify them | 17:30 |
| megheisler | The other questions all make sense | 17:31 |
| SWDevAngel | I added a thought/suggestion. I'd like to frame these in language that assumes the work will happen, so let's get a timeframe question instead of "are you or are you not" question. | 17:31 |
| SWDevAngel | if that makes sense. You can see my suggestion (in pink... sigh.) | 17:31 |
| fungi | yeah, as mentioned in here before the meeting, if we do a freeform question, we'll need wg members to analyze the responses under an nda, and can't publish any of them without obtaining consent | 17:31 |
| SWDevAngel | I need to start another meeting now but will keep this thread open and monitor later. :) | 17:32 |
| spotz | Was just reading that SWDevAngel - I was wondering of are you aware of a plan vs is there a plan? | 17:32 |
| fungi | i'm not opposed to the idea of freeform answers, just want to make sure we know what that entails | 17:32 |
| spotz | Yeah I've gone through and helped before iit's important stuff sometimes but even if there's a difference in the order of the words the 2 answers need to be compared and determined if the same or different and tagged | 17:33 |
| spotz | So if there's room at the end you can have an open did we forget something because the number of answers is minimal | 17:34 |
| spotz | vs we need everyone to respond to the open ended | 17:34 |
| fungi | right, survey takers are far more likely to skip freeform answer questions | 17:34 |
| fungi | so the quality of feedback might improve when using them, but the quantity will almost certainly nosedive | 17:35 |
| spotz | I won't lie I do it all the time | 17:35 |
| spotz | skip them that is | 17:35 |
| megheisler | That makes sense to me, yeah, there are some open ended survey questions that I won't answer if I don't feel strongly about it. So we may only get very strong answers one way or the other and people who didn't feel strongly just skip it | 17:36 |
| fungi | not to mention, those open ended questions are like an invitation for people to rant, so it can be draining to read through the vitriol in some responses | 17:37 |
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| spotz | fungi: Yeah like the last D&I survey:( | 17:38 |
| spotz | Ok I just put some possible responses to the question we're discussing on the etherpad | 17:38 |
| fungi | thanks! | 17:40 |
| spotz | I almost think we could make another yes to add in the folowwing question but not sure it's worth it | 17:41 |
| megheisler | I do think even the two multiple choice questions will yield some good information and help us understand where projects are on this effort | 17:42 |
| fungi | i do wonder if we should be phrasing things around "choosing inclusive language" rather than "avoiding divisive language" | 17:43 |
| spotz | Yeah and like I said I can make another yes to get us down one more question. I agree fungi. let me type give ke 2 | 17:43 |
| fungi | the former seems more positive and action-oriented | 17:43 |
| fungi | also focusing on the negative will tend to draw more trolls | 17:44 |
| megheisler | agreed, I will re word | 17:44 |
| fungi | it's part of why i called the wiki page with our list of alternative terminology "inclusivity" | 17:45 |
| fungi | also helps frame it that our goal is to actually be more inclusive, rather than simply trying not to be divisive | 17:45 |
| megheisler | I think that is great point! | 17:46 |
| spotz | Ok I moved questions I didn't think we were interested in asking or are asked by other questions to the bottom, changed divisive to inclusive everywhere and added a new response to the question | 17:46 |
| fungi | awesome | 17:46 |
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| megheisler | great | 17:47 |
| spotz | That gets to 3 which I think will make aprice happy. Are those what we want? Any rewording? | 17:49 |
| spotz | We have 10 minutes FYI | 17:50 |
| megheisler | I can't think of anything to change | 17:50 |
| fungi | i suggested one minor tweak to avoid things sounding too redundant, but on the whole it lgtm | 17:53 |
| spotz | #action spotz to send questions to aprice for inclusion later today | 17:53 |
| spotz | I'll give SWDevAngel a chance to comment this afternoon before sending | 17:53 |
| spotz | #topic Open Floor | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Floor (Meeting topic: diversity-wg)" | 17:58 | |
| spotz | Anyone have anything for the last 2 minutes? | 17:58 |
| fungi | i had an opportunity to plug our inclusivity wiki article in a comment on a starlingx docs review just a few minutes ago | 17:58 |
| spotz | Sweet! | 17:58 |
| fungi | #link https://review.opendev.org/773155 HTML sanity checks | 17:58 |
| fungi | figure that's an example of the sorts of ways we can bring it to the attention of people down in the trenches hacking on code and writing docs | 17:59 |
| spotz | AND MARRY ATTENDED A FEW OF THE PTG/SUMMIT SESSIONS WE HAD | 18:00 |
| spotz | oops | 18:00 |
| megheisler | very nice! | 18:00 |
| spotz | And Mary.... I swaer I can't type | 18:00 |
| fungi | you seem appropriately excited about it ;) | 18:01 |
| spotz | And we're at time so goiong to end the meeting. Thanks everyone! | 18:01 |
| spotz | hehe | 18:01 |
| fungi | thanks! | 18:01 |
| spotz | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Please review the survey at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/OpenStackDiversity and let spotz and/or aprice know if there's anything that needs updating per http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2018/diversity_wg.2018-06-18-19.00.log.html" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 1 18:01:36 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2021/diversity_wg.2021-02-01-17.00.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2021/diversity_wg.2021-02-01-17.00.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2021/diversity_wg.2021-02-01-17.00.log.html | 18:01 |
| SWDevAngel | Hi @spotz catching up now. If you're asking ME this question... No, I am not aware of any plans. If your thought is to word it that way, that sounds good. "Are you aware of..." I can make a note in the Etherpad. | 18:40 |
| SWDevAngel | Also, survey looks good. | 18:49 |
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| SWDevAngel | @spotz @fungi I've added comments to the etherpad. 🙂 | 18:56 |
| fungi | thanks!!! | 18:58 |
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| spotz | Thenaks SWDevAngel | 20:39 |
| megheisler | SWDevAngel: Thanks for the edits! | 20:40 |
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