Wednesday, 2014-10-22

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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/designate: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/13008300:45
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MaikZHi. Two quick questions: Is anyone maintaining public packages for icehouse/trusty? Will "designate writing into PowerDNS backend database" continue to be a supported mode of operation?08:15
MaikZWe don't think AXFR-based will work for us.08:15
jordanPMaikZ, I believe zigo here has some packages for icehouse/trusty08:32
jordanPMaikZ, his repo is at http://archive.gplhost.com/08:32
zigoMaikZ: deb http://archive.gplhost.com/debian trusty-juno-backports main08:32
jordanPsee :)08:33
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MaikZThanks!08:51
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KiallMaikZ: about? "We don't think AXFR-based will work for us." I'm interested in hearing why you think that?10:24
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MaikZKiall: Because it re-transfers the entire zone to change one record (PowerDNS doesn't speak IXFR and I don't think Designate does either)10:54
MaikZSo you'd either have to batch, introducing an annoying delay, or inflate the database with a massive number of mini-zones10:55
MaikZDesignate changing individual rows in the PowerDNS backend directly seems more scalable10:55
MaikZWe haven't benchmarked either option yet, these are just my thoughts based on the design.10:55
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KiallMaikZ: So, your use case is a small number of very large zones? Any estimate numbers you can share?10:57
Kiallre IXFR - Designate will support IXFR going forward, though it might not be in the first release.10:57
KiallPowerDNS doesn't support it, but it has some other advantages that should counter that - e.g. only a single powerDNS server needs to handle the AXFR, after that, DB replication will handle the rest. and PowerDNS upon receiving an AXFR only updates the DB data that actually changed - so replicating that DB out should be low overhead10:59
KiallSo - depending on scale, you might choose to run 1 or more "hidden" PowerDNS severs that handle the AXFR and, and let the others run with master+slave config options turned off and pointed at the same database11:00
MaikZYeah but we get all the advantages of that if Designate just writes into the database, and don't have to process entire zones each time for no reason.11:01
KiallYep, there is definitely a tradeoff - the current backend structure is unworkable for more traditional servers like bind, the route we're taking is to simplify our interactions with the actual DNS servers, hopefully giving us a much more stable base to grow..11:07
KiallI've also spent a little time thinking about how to keep the current structure available, while also keeping the core of designate "cleaner".. Specifically, the mDNS code we have could easily be adapted into a standalone service that instead of sending AXFR/IXFR requests, instead receives AXFR/IXFR, and pushes the changes into the DNS server using a similar method we have today.. Effectively bolting IXFR onto the side...11:09
Kiall(Also - Please don't benchmark mDNS today.. You'll fall out of your seat! It ain't ready yet ;))11:10
MaikZHave you looked into http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2136 for incremental updates?11:11
MaikZIt should work with BIND, (recent) PowerDNS, and Windows if someone wants to be gross11:11
Kialllol .. you have no idea how much effort we've spent at HP on MicrosoftDNS - We'll be open sourcing that when we can ;)11:12
Kiallre dns update - doing that in a way that handles concurrency and ensures the final zone is 100% consistent is surprisingly complex11:13
KiallAnyway - What I'm trying to say is, we haven't forgot about people with a small number of very large zones, the Kilo release might not be *ideal* for that use case, but it will certainly work, and whatever the L release get's called should make it more palatable!11:17
MaikZBut the direct integration is definitely going away? Because that's what we want to deploy11:20
MaikZand we should probably not invest that work if it's a dead end11:20
KiallYes, The current plans are to remove the direct integration during this cycle - as pools and mDNS become fully baked.. That said, I do fully expect that's a good thing, even for people with very large zones...11:22
MaikZOkay. Thanks for the update.11:26
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KiallMaikZ: One other comment BTW - at the last summit, we found someone who had a single 3GB zonefile, the talk at the time was how that could be split up.. either manually by the user, or "hidden" by designate into multiple smaller zones (Obviously that only works when there are labels we can break the zone into chunks at though).. I do expect we'll get to the point of actually being able to handle that.. Just likely not in Kilo :)11:31
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Madkisshmmm.11:37
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MadkissKiall: So, I guess there will be a list of features to be in kilo (and not to be in kilo) after the summit, right? any concrete that for that? we'd like to have a bit of planning security.11:39
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Madkisss/that/date/11:39
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KiallMadkiss: the two big features in Kilo are "Pools" and the changes to how backends interact with the DNS servers - Pools is kinda two things 1) improves scaling by allowing you to have multiple sets of nameservers serving different zones, and 2) Allows for using different backends at once.. e.g. you might use DynECT for your external zones and PowerDNS/BIND for your internal or less important stuff12:04
Madkissdidn't you just say that powerdns is going away? :)12:04
KiallNot at all!12:04
KiallJust how we interact with PowerDNS12:05
Kiallis changing12:05
Madkissi see12:05
KiallAll the backends will get create/delete zone operations the same as they do today, but zone content updates will be performed via standard zone transfers against the WIP mdns service12:05
KiallIn the current master branch, there's a backend called "powerdns_mdns" (and it's available in devstack) that starts implementing this...12:06
MaikZI'm sure you had reasons for that design choice, but I still think that of the four ways to get record updates into PowerDNS, it's the least efficient and reliable.12:07
KiallI'd disagree there - It's arguably the most reliable way to get zone content changes out to the various DNS servers, and the design decision was mainly based around the fact that DNS servers other than PowerDNS were fundamentally broken and unusable. I without a doubt believe the direction is correct - and that it will lead to a much more reliable and scalable service12:10
Kiall(even for users of PowerDNS with large zones, once we get all the way there..)12:11
Kiallanyway.. gotta run! Back in an hour or two..12:11
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/designate: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/13008312:30
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openstackgerritKiall Mac Innes proposed a change to openstack/designate-specs: Remove duplicate example spec  https://review.openstack.org/13022914:05
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vinod1kiall: I notice that you updated the agenda for today's meeting.  But I thought we were having the hangout in place of the meeting today.15:27
Kiallvinod1: yep, I hope we can just speed through the first two items at the start of the hangout!15:28
vinod1ok15:30
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betsykiall: When I’m creating the default pool during the migration, what should I use as the tenant_id?15:37
betsyRight now, it’s a field that cannot be null15:37
ekarlsohey gang15:37
ekarlsoaka betsy and vinod1 atm ;p15:37
betsyheya15:38
ekarlsoWhat do you guys think we should use or the v2 client15:38
Kiallbetsy: Yea, that was one of my other comments on your review! I'm not sure why tenant_id is required at all?15:38
ekarlsoResource classes or so ?15:38
ekarlsotrying to figure that one out :D15:38
Kiall(required as in not nullable.. e.g. tenant_id=NULL == Shared/Global pool)15:38
betsyok. I’ll make that nullable. Makes it waaay easier15:38
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ekarlsoI mean: https://github.com/openstack/python-glanceclient/blob/master/glanceclient/openstack/common/apiclient/base.py#L412-L500 this stuff :)15:39
ekarlsotrying to figure out what makes sense for v215:40
Kiallekarlso: have any of the other clients besiudes glance implement the oslo apiclient?15:41
Kiallbesides*15:41
KiallIf so, Have they all followed a single pattern?15:41
ekarlsomost clients use the apiclient model crap I think15:41
vinod1ekarlso: looking at the link that you sent15:41
Kiallekarlso: apiclient model is different to apiclient resource, or?15:42
ekarlsono, I mean resource15:42
ekarlsosorry :)15:43
ekarlsoI think glanceclient is the only one using the warlock stuff15:43
Kiallbrb15:43
Kiallcoffee needed ;)15:43
ekarlsono wonder you sleeping pattern is traumatized Kiall :p15:43
vinod1what is warlock stuff?15:44
ekarlsolemme find it :)15:44
vinod1Is this what you are talking about https://pypi.python.org/pypi/warlock?15:45
ekarlsohttps://github.com/openstack/python-glanceclient/blob/master/glanceclient/v2/images.py15:45
ekarlsoyes15:45
ekarlsoit generates models from schemas instead15:45
timsimekarlso: Are those your only two options?15:47
ekarlsoor just go with standard dicts :)15:47
ekarlsoor so ;p15:47
ekarlsoknow of any else timsim  ?:)15:48
vinod1I need to look at other clients to be sure (but pools will likely take all my time)15:50
vinod1But from a brief look at what you sent so far - the warlock stuff looks good15:51
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openstackgerritKiall Mac Innes proposed a change to openstack/designate-specs: WIP: Add validation-cleanup spec  https://review.openstack.org/13026516:05
Kiallvinod1: ^ Draft of a spec for the various changes I've been working though...16:05
Kiallrender at http://docs-draft.openstack.org/65/130265/1/check/gate-designate-specs-docs/4fb7439/doc/build/html/specs/kilo/validation-cleanup.html16:08
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Kiallshakamunyi: Hey Alex... One of the session I've proposed for Paris is around Dynamic DNS updates, which should be familiar to you :)16:14
Kialldooh.. he left!16:14
openstackgerritKiall Mac Innes proposed a change to openstack/designate-specs: WIP: Add validation-cleanup spec  https://review.openstack.org/13026516:22
KiallUpdated rendering.. with some clarifications http://docs-draft.openstack.org/65/130265/2/check/gate-designate-specs-docs/d0e7eaf/doc/build/html/specs/kilo/validation-cleanup.html16:26
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KiallReminder - Designate meeting moved to a Hangout today.17:04
mugsiehttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/event/c32ro6cqqmhjcl5b262r3citpng17:05
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mugsierjrjr: you around?17:08
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Kiallhttp://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/designate17:40
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rjrjrquick question, should i model unmanaged as a driver ala sqlalchemy in the code?17:57
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mugsierjrjr: for a pool?17:59
rjrjrprovisioner - unmanaged = driver?17:59
mugsiehumm, not sure17:59
mugsieyeah18:00
rjrjryes, for a pool.  or do you want me to just ignore the provisioner for now.18:00
rjrjrokay.18:00
mugsieI think for time being, we maight actually be better leaving it be18:00
mugsieunmanaged as they say ;)18:00
mugsieNo idea what we will need in the future, so guessing now might be a bad idea18:01
rjrjrokay.  i'll leave it be.  unmanaged will probably end up being the base for the other provisioners.18:01
mugsieyeah18:01
rjrjrThanks!18:02
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ekarlsovinod1: so you think the warlock stuff is fine ? :)18:33
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vinod1yes i think so18:34
ekarlsoanyone else ?`18:38
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/designate: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/13031719:10
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openstackgerritTim Simmons proposed a change to openstack/designate: WIP: Add some helpful SQL indices  https://review.openstack.org/12967521:28
timsimJust removing some unnecessary duplicates, still working on a more thorough analysis^21:28
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openstackgerritRon Rickard proposed a change to openstack/designate: Pool Manager Service Changes  https://review.openstack.org/12830023:26
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openstackgerritRon Rickard proposed a change to openstack/designate: Pool Manager Service Changes  https://review.openstack.org/12830023:39
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