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| openstackgerrit | Darren Chan proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Minor edits in the HOT guide https://review.openstack.org/181788 | 03:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Darren Chan proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Minor edits in the HOT guide https://review.openstack.org/181788 | 03:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Darren Chan proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Minor edits in the HOT guide https://review.openstack.org/181788 | 05:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/api-site: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/181799 | 06:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | venkatamahesh proposed openstack/security-doc: Fix bug 1447302, sentences under Domain names were modified. https://review.openstack.org/181832 | 09:05 |
| openstack | bug 1447302 in openstack-manuals "Chapter 7. Dashboard in OpenStack Security Guide - Malformed Sentences" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447302 - Assigned to venkatamahesh (venkatamaheshkotha) | 09:05 |
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| tbarron | in kilo we added NFS backup service to cinder and updated the admin guide accordingly: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175826/ | 10:30 |
| tbarron | but we didn't make any corresponding change to config-reference/block-storage/backup | 10:30 |
| tbarron | I could submit a review that adds a new reference to section_backup-drivers.xml and a corresponding file, | 10:33 |
| tbarron | backup/nfs-backup-driver.xml | 10:33 |
| tbarron | but that file would reference an auto-generated config options table that does not yet exist, | 10:34 |
| tbarron | href="../../../common/tables/cinder-backups_nfs.xml"/> | 10:35 |
| tbarron | How do I get that table generated? I see that the more general table in the same directory, cinder-backups.xml, already includes the new configuration options that we added for NFS backup. | 10:37 |
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| AJaeger | tbarron: gpocentek can help you with that if needed. | 10:56 |
| tbarron | AJaeger: ty | 10:56 |
| AJaeger | tbarron: it's done with the config file in tools/autogenerate-config-flagmappings/ which includes information about the tool as well | 10:56 |
| AJaeger | tbarron: feel free to propose a skeleton patch and ask for specific help | 10:57 |
| AJaeger | tbarron: note that we have no stable/kilo branch yet, so whatever you submit to master, will be on stable as well | 10:58 |
| tbarron | AJaeger: gpocentek: I'll prepare a skeleton patch without the table (but with the table reference) and put it in review. | 10:59 |
| tbarron | AJaeger: gpocentek: I'll then take a look and see if it's obvious how to generate the table and revise, or else ask for help. | 10:59 |
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| tbarron | AJaeger: gpocentek: thanks for the help! gpocentek: I'll add you to the review. | 11:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: install: suse: Update nova lock path https://review.openstack.org/181943 | 17:01 |
| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, gpocentek, loquacities : Could you review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180885/ , please? The duplicates are really not nice | 17:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | sure | 17:05 |
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| AJaeger | thanks, Sam-I-Am ! | 17:08 |
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| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: you going to vancouver? | 17:10 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: The Oslo team is interested in setting up a blog using a static site generator, and having the built files hosted on openstack.org somewhere. I could set it up to use docs.openstack.org today, like we do with developer docs, but the folks in -infra suggested I talk to you about the hostname in that URL first. | 17:13 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: can I do five levels of why? :) | 17:13 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: 5 levels? | 17:13 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: just thinking, why blog, why oslo team, why not using an existing blog, that sort of thing | 17:13 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: esp. since the TC will use the OpenStack blog, why not there? | 17:14 |
| annegentle | maybe it's five levels of why not dhellmann :) | 17:14 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I suppose we could do that, if we're prepared to give everyone access to the openstack blog -- I suspect we're not though. We thought having our own site would let us publish whatever, whenever. | 17:15 |
| dhellmann | a blog gives us a static url to refer folks to, and lets us communicate more widely than just the -dev mailing list | 17:15 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: everyone has access to the openstack blog and it's already going to planet | 17:15 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: *write* access? | 17:15 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I think a blog post is a good idea for certain types of timely posts, sure. | 17:16 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: maybe I'm outdated on the openstack blog, but yeah, anyone can post except for vendors vendoring, I think | 17:16 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: let me look | 17:16 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: are there instructions for that? | 17:16 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I'm looking, just a sec. I know the policy changed but it was years back | 17:17 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Website#Posting_To_The_Blog | 17:17 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: let's ask reed, he's the community manager | 17:18 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: but I do think they'd welcome the content, really. | 17:18 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ok. How good is that tool at dealing with code samples? | 17:18 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: and avoids having to do all the plumbing | 17:18 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it's wordpress | 17:18 |
| dhellmann | ok, so terrible? | 17:18 |
| * dhellmann doesn't use wordpress | 17:18 | |
| annegentle | dhellmann: nah it's fine and with plugins you could get syntax highlighting | 17:19 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ok. I'm still not sure why you're resisting the idea of the team having its own blog somewhere? | 17:19 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: because it'll be times 22 | 17:19 |
| dhellmann | so? | 17:20 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: and we're having a hard enough time aggregating already | 17:20 |
| dhellmann | team identity is valuable | 17:20 |
| dhellmann | put the rss feed on the planet site? | 17:20 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sure, but I see it over and over again, a blog post goes out of date because it's timely, it never gets rolled into docs | 17:20 |
| annegentle | so it's another place for outdated info | 17:20 |
| dhellmann | ok, this doesn't have anything to do with documentation | 17:20 |
| annegentle | I'm only throwing out considerations, not arguing | 17:21 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 17:21 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok then it doesn't belong on docs dot. are you considering blogs dot or some subdomain? | 17:21 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: right, that was my original question | 17:21 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: really though why confuse people with blogs openstack when there's already openstack.org/blog and planet.openstack | 17:21 |
| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am: can't make it to Vancouver ;( | 17:21 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: nevermind, I give up | 17:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: aww | 17:22 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: just seems like too much redirection | 17:22 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: did you consider openstack.org/blog with an oslo tag? | 17:22 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: then aggregate those to planet.openstack? | 17:23 |
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| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am: scheduled already last August a long pentecost weekend in London with my wife. Going from Vancouver to London in time would be a very short summit ;( | 17:25 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: could I have a second +2 pair of eyes on https://review.openstack.org/180885 , please? | 17:26 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: sure looking now | 17:27 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: so is this related to what Doug fixed with conditional toc entries? | 17:27 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: so we can't have nice next/prev links? | 17:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: sigh | 17:28 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: we should have now nice next/prev links | 17:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: oh. it's that it has to be in meta directive? | 17:28 |
| AJaeger | That change added duplicated sections and we missed it during review ;( | 17:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: I'll keep reading and stop typing :) | 17:28 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 17:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: so I click next and get here: http://docs-draft.openstack.org/85/180885/3/check/gate-openstack-manuals-tox-doc-publish-checkbuild/a33b7ee//publish-docs/user-guide-admin/common/cli_overview.html and it doesn't have a NEXT link. Looking into why not. | 17:30 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: your QA skills are better than mine ;) | 17:32 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: heh | 17:32 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: here's what I think happens | 17:32 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: once it goes "into" a common it doesn't know what to do | 17:32 |
| annegentle | for "next" | 17:32 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: any idea? | 17:33 |
| AJaeger | that's strange ;( | 17:33 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: we can also ask in sphinx-doc | 17:33 |
| annegentle | but yeah, basically once your toc pulls from a different subdir, all bets seem off? | 17:33 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: not always, this one has next http://docs-draft.openstack.org/85/180885/3/check/gate-openstack-manuals-tox-doc-publish-checkbuild/a33b7ee//publish-docs/user-guide-admin/common/cli_manage_volumes.html | 17:34 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: shoot you're right | 17:34 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: hm | 17:34 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: asking on sphinx-doc might be good, I thought we fixed this... | 17:35 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah | 17:35 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: So, what's worse: Duplicate content or no next? ;( | 17:35 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: I need to go find food, should we push that through and log a bug if it's better than what we have? | 17:35 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah, just what I was asking myself :) | 17:36 |
| AJaeger | we got two bugs for the duplicates so far but none for the next (besides us) | 17:36 |
| AJaeger | so, I would take my patch - and file a bug. | 17:36 |
| AJaeger | do you want to +A - and I file the bug? | 17:37 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: Yeah I'm inclined to do that. | 17:37 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yep | 17:37 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: We have discovered post-upgrade issues with Gerrit affecting nova (and potentially other projects). Some changes will not appear and some actions, such as queries, may return an error. We are continuing to investigate. | 17:37 | |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "We have discovered post-upgrade issues with Gerrit affecting nova (and potentially other projects). Some changes will not appear and some actions, such as queries, may return an error. We are continuing to investigate." | 17:37 | |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ok pushed | 17:38 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: It does not have a NEXT button right now either - so the patch does not change it, see http://docs.openstack.org/user-guide-admin/common/cli_overview.html | 17:38 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: heading to get lunch, back in a bit | 17:38 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: enjoy! | 17:38 |
| * dhellmann returns from lunch | 17:39 | |
| annegentle | dhellmann: welcome back! | 17:39 |
| annegentle | :) | 17:39 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it's possible you're onto something we could re-use for the TC | 17:39 |
| AJaeger | but the new page now has a PREVIOUS - while current page has none | 17:39 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: so you're still having trouble with conditionals in the toctree? | 17:39 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: maybe only true cross-project projects get blogs? | 17:39 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: yeah | 17:40 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ah good point | 17:40 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: not everyone is going to want one, so I'm not sure we need to establish that as a rule, but we could | 17:40 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: the NEXT button is not shown in some cases | 17:40 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah most teams couldn't take it on ha ha | 17:40 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: are you still mixing "only" and "toctree"? | 17:40 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: really I need to talk to reed | 17:40 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: he may have ideas too | 17:40 |
| annegentle | yeah I'd better go eat :) | 17:40 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1453896 | 17:41 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1453896 in openstack-manuals "User Guides: some files have no next button" [Undecided,New] | 17:41 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: this uses the meta tag for the toctree now https://review.openstack.org//#/c/180885/3/doc/user-guides/source/cli-admin.rst to get rid of duplicates | 17:43 |
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| dhellmann | hmm, I haven't used that before | 17:44 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle, AJaeger : it looks like doc/user-guides/source/cli.rst still has the "only" directives wrapping the toctrees | 17:49 |
| dhellmann | oh, I see, that's fixed in https://review.openstack.org//#/c/180885/3 | 17:50 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: check 180885, it is not merged yet | 17:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 17:50 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 17:50 |
| * dhellmann is slowly coming up to speed | 17:50 | |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: 180885 is the patch that fixes the duplicates. The no NEXT was there previously, so 180885 does not make it worse... | 17:51 |
| dhellmann | ok | 17:51 |
| AJaeger | ah, I notice something: | 17:52 |
| AJaeger | cli-admin.rst includes common/cli_install_openstack_command_line_clients.rst | 17:52 |
| AJaeger | (after cli_overview.rst) | 17:52 |
| AJaeger | and that one has a scope: user_only on it - but is in common. | 17:52 |
| AJaeger | I guess removing the scope will fix the issue... | 17:53 |
| AJaeger | Let me check... | 17:53 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: I'll bet you're right | 17:54 |
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| dhellmann | AJaeger: I still think it would probably be easier to build a toctree directive that evaluates the rules as it reads documents, to build the dom "properly" instead of trying to deal with skipping documents after the dom is built | 17:55 |
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| AJaeger | dhellmann: my sphinx expertise is too limited to do this - if you send a patch, it would be really appreciated ;) | 17:57 |
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| dhellmann | AJaeger: I'll see what I can do. It may have to wait for after the summit, though | 17:58 |
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| AJaeger | thanks, dhellmann ! | 17:58 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann, annegentle: Patch coming that fixes the issue | 17:58 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: writing a new toctree directive class will probably involve a new library, rather than sticking it in the docs repo directly | 17:59 |
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| AJaeger | dhellmann: whatever works ;) | 18:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: User Guides: Install CLIs is for both guides https://review.openstack.org/182005 | 18:03 |
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| dhellmann | AJaeger: is there any particular reason that the user guide isn't just split into 2 separate documents, with the common bits in a separate directory? | 18:13 |
| dhellmann | maybe a lot of it actually overlaps? | 18:14 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: It was just the way we started working ;) The two guides had quite some overlap and there's also a spec to split them up more: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/liberty/reorganise-user-guides.html | 18:15 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: ok, just exploring ideas | 18:15 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: I wondered as well whether we should have reworked it and I would approve such a change - and guess once the spec is in, we should really consider it. | 18:15 |
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| AJaeger | dhellmann: one practical issue: How do I reference the common directory? | 18:16 |
| dhellmann | it might ultimately be less confusing than having lots of conditionals throughout | 18:16 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: you can check a symlink into git, and then refer to documents in that directory through the symlink | 18:16 |
| dhellmann | I think that's how we do the governance repo | 18:16 |
| AJaeger | If I have doc/user-guide and doc/user-guide-admin and doc/common-rst - do I need a soft-link from doc/user-guide/source/common to common-rst | 18:16 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: yeah, that's what the specs repos do as well. | 18:17 |
| dhellmann | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/doc/source | 18:17 |
| AJaeger | Ok, that's the usual practice. | 18:17 |
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| dhellmann | AJaeger: that would be simplest, yes | 18:17 |
| dhellmann | it also makes it explicit about where you're using those common files | 18:17 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann, how does it make it explicit? | 18:18 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: do you propose soft-links for the common directory or soft-links for the actual files? | 18:18 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: well, it's possible to look for the symlink to know where common files are actually used rather than having to grep through files. I guess it's not really that different. | 18:18 |
| dhellmann | just the directory | 18:18 |
| AJaeger | And we would still need to add either :orphan: or meta markup to the common files so that sphinx does not complain if a common file is not included (once further rst guides use it) - correct? | 18:20 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger: I think there's a way to do that with patterns in the configuration file, rather than having to add it to each file | 18:20 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: yes, there's an exclude pattern which could be used... | 18:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Diane Fleming proposed openstack/api-site: Fix list extensions and get extension calls for Compute v2 https://review.openstack.org/181140 | 18:21 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, loquacities: What do you think? After reading the spec again, I agree with dhellmann that we should have two different directories... | 18:21 |
| * AJaeger can do the change but first needs to get some dependencies in to make life easier... | 18:22 | |
| annegentle | AJaeger: just thinking "out loud," we'll have plenty of | 18:22 |
| annegentle | er | 18:22 |
| annegentle | plenty of pointers to common directory | 18:22 |
| AJaeger | I would name it common-rst ;) | 18:23 |
| annegentle | but the sharing of content isn't as common | 18:23 |
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| annegentle | as in, having user and admin reuse isn't as big a use case | 18:23 |
| AJaeger | We have files like glossary that is copied into each guide and the support appendix that is linked from user guides to networking guide | 18:23 |
| annegentle | right | 18:23 |
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| annegentle | so the common-rst dir would need symlinks for networking-guide and end-user-guide? | 18:24 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: so, it will be a very small common directory, especially after the user guides spec has implemented "Reduce duplication between the guides as much as possible. Point the Cloud Admin Guide to the Admin User Guide, and the Admin User Guide to the End User Guide for readers to accomplish further tasks. " | 18:24 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: for networking-guide, for user-guide, for user-guide-admin | 18:25 |
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| annegentle | yep | 18:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ok, so I like the symlinks | 18:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: seems like contributors would "get it" if it's a specs pattern | 18:26 |
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| AJaeger | Once https://review.openstack.org/182005, https://review.openstack.org/181729, https://review.openstack.org/181717 are in, I can rework ... | 18:26 |
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| AJaeger | (that was a gentle plea for reviews to reduce merge conflicts ;) | 18:27 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: :) | 18:27 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: I'll put it on my todo list... | 18:31 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: thank you! I'll review those once they build | 18:31 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: the last two have build, the newest one not yet due to the gerrit problems that infra is looking into ;( | 18:33 |
| AJaeger | thanks, annegentle | 18:33 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: oh! I wondered if we'd be affected | 18:33 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: Zuul and gerrit are very sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow right now. | 18:34 |
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| AJaeger | so, only indirectly affected | 18:35 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: I can pull it down locally :) | 18:35 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: pull it down and do your rigorous QA ;) | 18:35 |
| AJaeger | if you find another missing NEXT/PREVIOUS, we should be able to fix it easily like done in that patch | 18:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/security-doc: changed section_introduction-to-case-studies https://review.openstack.org/180648 | 19:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: User Guides: Fix duplicate sections https://review.openstack.org/180885 | 19:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Simplify RST building https://review.openstack.org/181729 | 19:08 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: those two other changes do not touch the user guide NEXT bug, they just add some infrastructure to simplify our RST building | 19:09 |
| annegentle | ah ok | 19:11 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: that explains it then | 19:11 |
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| AJaeger | I just wanted them in to reduce merge conflicts ;) | 19:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Claudiu Belu proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Adds documentation for Hyper-V Generation 2 VMs https://review.openstack.org/182033 | 19:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Wayne Okuma proposed openstack/api-site: Add documentation for Glance Metadata Definitions Catalog - Tags https://review.openstack.org/182037 | 19:40 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: hey, a writer pointed out that sphinx-doc.org uses different conventions for headings than we do, referring to http://sphinx-doc.org/rest.html#sections | 19:41 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: do you think we should follow those conventions? dhellmann any thoughts? | 19:41 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: I don't care which way we do it ;) Following that convention might be better since it's an arbitrary choice. | 19:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: install-guides: suse: Update nova-compute section https://review.openstack.org/181917 | 19:42 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah I just did what pandoc gave me | 19:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: install: suse: Update nova lock path https://review.openstack.org/181943 | 19:42 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: That will be a large and error prone patch ;( | 19:42 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: so it wasn't arbitrary, it was lazy! | 19:42 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: better now than later in the release :) | 19:42 |
| * AJaeger would approve it ;) | 19:42 | |
| * dhellmann reads scrollback | 19:44 | |
| annegentle | was asking if Python devs follow http://sphinx-doc.org/rest.html#sections religiously :) | 19:45 |
| annegentle | are those heading/section markups like a style guide for Python docs? | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | annegentle, AJaeger: when I start a new document I use the conventions built into emacs, and they don't match that list. I say pick your conventions and document them but don't expect there to be "one true way" to do it :-) | 19:46 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: good to know. What's emacs's convention for section headers? /me checks for a working install somewhere | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: http://paste.openstack.org/show/220145/ | 19:52 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: that looks like what pandoc does! | 19:53 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: it may be some sort of defacto standard | 19:53 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: that's what I'm seeking... is sphinx-doc.org the defacto standard, or emacs, what do you think? | 19:53 |
| dhellmann | given that it's arbitrary, I would go with the thing the tool makes easy | 19:54 |
| dhellmann | I don't know what folks are using to edit rst, though | 19:54 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah, not sure either | 19:55 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: pandoc's markup was our non-arbitrary first choice. | 19:55 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: as in, when migrating using pandoc, it was putting in those section markings | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | that seems like as good a reason as any to pick a style :-) | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | that's again different from what we have at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Markup_conventions#Headings | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | "the tool outputs this way" | 19:55 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: not really, if you ignore subtitle | 19:56 |
| dhellmann | heading 2 and 3 are swapped for what emacs does | 19:56 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: oh! then that matches Python style | 19:56 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ok, so do we switch h2 and h3? | 19:57 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok | 19:57 |
| * annegentle double checks | 19:57 | |
| AJaeger | nothing matches ;) | 19:57 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ha. | 19:58 |
| dhellmann | have you seen http://sourceforge.net/p/retext/home/ReText/ before? | 19:58 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: oo! | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | I have no idea how well that works | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | there's also apparently a mode for eclipse | 19:59 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I've pointed wiki pages to http://rst.ninjs.org/ (online editor) | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ah, cool. I guess one would copy & paste content over? | 20:07 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: right, it's "faster" than tox -e docs all the time to get rid of any rendering errors | 20:09 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it'd be cool to integrate it with gerrit right there online :) | 20:09 |
| mikal | Hey, do we think that https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1450291 might be an install guide bug? | 20:11 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1450291 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "nova-manage db sync not committing to database" [Undecided,New] | 20:11 |
| mikal | He says he's following the docs and has db sync problems | 20:11 |
| mikal | I've not heard of anyone else having problems | 20:11 |
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| annegentle | mikal: our install guide doesn't document upgrades | 20:12 |
| annegentle | mikal: is he following the upgrade docs? (I'll ask in the bug) | 20:12 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: we don't have juno to kilo upgrade docs - or do we? | 20:13 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: nope | 20:13 |
| AJaeger | but he references the install guide in his last comment... | 20:13 |
| AJaeger | invalid ;) | 20:13 |
| annegentle | mikal: so that last commentor, thiago, is installing | 20:13 |
| annegentle | right | 20:13 |
| annegentle | mikal: so you need to separate thiago's comment from the bug reporters problem | 20:13 |
| AJaeger | Thiago seems to hijack the bug report | 20:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Nathaniel Dillon proposed openstack/security-doc: Updating Alice's case study for Networking https://review.openstack.org/182064 | 20:18 |
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| annegentle | mikal: commented in bug | 20:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Share common RST directory https://review.openstack.org/182067 | 20:21 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: Above is the first part in the splitting up the user-guides - sharing the common directory. | 20:21 |
| annegentle | thanks AJaeger | 20:22 |
| annegentle | ok, all. I'm working on a blog post looking back at the past four and half years working on OpenStack docs. What would you like to know in that post? | 20:22 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: more patches coming - having one common will make the setup easier | 20:22 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah it seems like it! | 20:22 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: I hope you don't mind if I retire you as PTL on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation ;) | 20:23 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: didn't I do that already this morning? | 20:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: I did a search through wiki just today :) | 20:24 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: seems you missed that | 20:25 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: we all want to hire some stories of the good old times before we youngsters joined ;) | 20:25 |
| AJaeger | And what you would have done differently - and what loquacities should do differently than you did ;) | 20:26 |
| annegentle | :) | 20:26 |
| annegentle | I wouldn't have done anything differently. Is that arrogant? :) | 20:26 |
| AJaeger | So, secrets like how to drive in a BMW i8 onto the stage... | 20:26 |
| AJaeger | No, it's not arrogant. I just wonder whether with today's knowledge there's something... | 20:27 |
| annegentle | ha ha! I was squished in the backseat! Though, that is a fun story | 20:27 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: you do a great job, no need to invent something ;) | 20:27 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: one story I recall, I was at a doc sprint in San Fran, in... wow had to be 2012? The team Vish and I were on wanted to rewrite the whole docs site in RST. | 20:28 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: :) | 20:28 |
| annegentle | I told them no at the time. I think I'll work that story in. It's pretty interesting, whether I would have started with RST in the first place. hm. | 20:29 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 20:29 |
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| annegentle | honestly at the time I thought since RedHat was a docbook shop they'd contribute upstream more if it was a format they were accustomed to | 20:29 |
| loquacities | annegentle: so the takeaway for me here is to always ask "WWAD?" ;) | 20:29 |
| annegentle | loquacities: ha, not really! | 20:30 |
| annegentle | I guess it's sortof philosophical really. Whether you believe the journey gets you to where you were supposed to go. | 20:31 |
| mikal | annegentle: thanks | 20:31 |
| annegentle | my introductory blog post when I was first hired: http://www.openstack.org/blog/2010/09/content-stacker-reporting-for-duty/ | 20:32 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: link to it ;) | 20:37 |
| AJaeger | Hope you don't call your post "reporting off-duty" ;) | 20:37 |
| annegentle | LOL | 20:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Diane Fleming proposed openstack/api-site: Fix list extensions and get extension calls for Compute v2 https://review.openstack.org/181140 | 21:33 |
| jogo | got a docs question | 21:33 |
| jogo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177374/ | 21:34 |
| jogo | http://docs-draft.openstack.org/74/177374/6/check/gate-nova-docs/b2e1c3c//doc/build/html/devref/architecture.html | 21:34 |
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| jogo | what is the recommended way to create architecture diagrams | 21:34 |
| jogo | because ascii art makes me grumpy | 21:34 |
| annegent_ | jogo: I thought for specs it's uhhh have to go find it | 21:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | lol specs | 21:35 |
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| annegent_ | jogo: http://asciiflow.com | 21:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | that patch doesnt look like a spec | 21:35 |
| jogo | its in nova docs | 21:37 |
| jogo | annegent_: why can't we create real diagrams? | 21:37 |
| annegent_ | right, I'm saying there's not a standard other than reviewers going "oh hell no" jogo :) | 21:37 |
| annegent_ | jogo: I dunno? Proprietary arguments? | 21:37 |
| annegent_ | jogo: honestly I'm fine with Omnigraffle but that discussion always falls into open source and non-open tools camps | 21:38 |
| jogo | surely there is some middle ground | 21:38 |
| annegent_ | jogo: the arguments placed in the spec template are about diffs of plaintext | 21:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | jogo: you can't just include a figure? looks like rst. | 21:39 |
| annegent_ | jogo: and inline feedback | 21:39 |
| jogo | and that means users get terrible diagrams | 21:39 |
| jogo | in fact OpenStack has a lack of any useful architecture diagrams | 21:40 |
| jogo | in general | 21:40 |
| jogo | per project especially | 21:40 |
| * Sam-I-Am just uses omnigraffle | 21:40 | |
| Sam-I-Am | you should see the new networking guide | 21:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's dozens in there | 21:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | and yeah, i agree we could use more general architecture diagrams | 21:40 |
| * jogo drafts an email | 21:40 | |
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| Sam-I-Am | omnigraffle makes wonderful diagrams :) | 21:41 |
| annegent_ | jogo: yeah there are plenty in the new networking guide, people need to refresh old ones too | 21:41 |
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| annegent_ | you forgot hashtag troll Sam-I-Am :) | 21:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | without it, i dont think i would have drawn 64 of them for the guide | 21:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | sixty-four :P | 21:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | and i aint done | 21:42 |
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| sc68cal | nwdiag and blockdiag are used for some stuff in the -specs repos | 21:52 |
| sc68cal | but it's for very basic stuff - I keep joking about Sam-I-Am-aaS | 21:53 |
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| jogo | annegentle: going one level up, I think each projects docs could be a lot better | 21:54 |
| annegentle | jogo: oh yes | 21:54 |
| jogo | everything under docs.openstack.org/developer/* | 21:54 |
| annegentle | jogo: honestly project docs aren't in the review eye of docs team much | 21:54 |
| annegentle | jogo: (you know that right?) | 21:54 |
| jogo | which is fine, but if the docs team or someone came up with some guidelines for project docs that would help a lot | 21:55 |
| jogo | I am aware yes | 21:55 |
| annegentle | jogo: graphics format and tooling is where the docs team is stuck already though :( | 21:55 |
| jogo | as I don't think most projects even know what to do with those docs | 21:55 |
| jogo | well for starters what should the target audience of those docs be | 21:56 |
| jogo | developers and ? | 21:56 |
| annegentle | jogo: yeah they're meant for contributor devs | 21:56 |
| annegentle | jogo: only | 21:56 |
| annegentle | contributor devs only | 21:56 |
| jogo | and what topics should they cover | 21:56 |
| annegentle | contributor dev topics only | 21:56 |
| jogo | IMHO there should be enough information to understand the design and architecture of the project | 21:56 |
| jogo | among the dev topics | 21:56 |
| annegentle | jogo: sure | 21:57 |
| jogo | anyway that was a bit of a rant. Trying to find out how say heat works without looking at 3rd party resources is very hard | 21:58 |
| annegentle | jogo: agreed, and it's okay to rant :) | 21:58 |
| annegentle | jogo: even preferred! | 21:58 |
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| sc68cal | devref in most repos leaves much to be desired | 21:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | so, imho, if you produce a diagram thats technically accurate but mehhhh, someone in docs can make it look better :) | 21:59 |
| sc68cal | for example - https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/doc/source/devref/architecture.rst | 22:00 |
| sc68cal | vishvananda on Oct 28, 2012 | 22:00 |
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| jogo | sc68cal: we haven't gone beyond ascii art in nova .... | 22:01 |
| jogo | sc68cal: amen! | 22:01 |
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| Sam-I-Am | jogo: did you see some of the network guide diagrams? | 22:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're trying to come up with a theme of sorts | 22:04 |
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| jogo | Sam-I-Am: link? | 22:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | http://docs.openstack.org/networking-guide/deploy_scenario1a.html | 22:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | some examples in there | 22:06 |
| jogo | nice! | 22:07 |
| jogo | Sam-I-Am: very nice | 22:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | thx | 22:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | i blame omnigraffle | 22:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Simo proposed openstack/security-doc: Fix grammatical errors in security-guide/networking-services https://review.openstack.org/178016 | 22:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Simo proposed openstack/security-doc: Fix grammatical errors in security-guide/networking-services https://review.openstack.org/178016 | 22:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | sc68cal: you get a chance to look at the summit pres? | 22:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Simo proposed openstack/security-doc: Fix grammatical errors in security-guide/networking-services https://review.openstack.org/178016 | 22:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Simo proposed openstack/security-doc: Fix malformed sentence in security-guide https://review.openstack.org/178014 | 22:45 |
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| sc68cal | Sam-I-Am: looking now | 22:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Wayne Okuma proposed openstack/api-site: Add documentation for Glance Metadata Definitions Catalog - Tags https://review.openstack.org/182037 | 22:55 |
| sc68cal | Sam-I-Am: looks pretty darn good so far | 22:56 |
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| Sam-I-Am | sc68cal: cool | 23:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | sc68cal: doesnt need to be too detailed, but i want to make it not suck like most panels | 23:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | sc68cal: i suspect we'll all discuss our roles more in depth and then go through the scenarios at some point, more to explain why we chose what we did and why they're laid out as such... than the gory details | 23:25 |
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| sc68cal | Sam-I-Am: sounds good | 23:34 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is going offline while we perform an emergency downgrade to version 2.8. | 23:53 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Wayne Okuma proposed openstack/api-site: Add documentation for Glance Metadata Definitions Catalog - Tags https://review.openstack.org/182037 | 23:53 |
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