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| diablo_rojo | tonyb, fungi when you run the tool, you get these projected dates right? http://paste.openstack.org/show/787114/ | 17:41 |
|---|---|---|
| * diablo_rojo wants to be sure before emailing the tc about it | 17:41 | |
| fungi | yeah, looks like it would optimally be a week of downtime between close of ptl elections and start of tc nominations? | 17:50 |
| fungi | that's pretty close that we could probably shift ptl elections forward and tc elections back to make them run concurrently | 17:51 |
| fungi | ussuri schedule has rc1 on april 20-24 week | 17:52 |
| fungi | oh, wait, i got the months switched around between ptl and tc | 17:53 |
| fungi | so that's showing a week between end of tc election and start of ptl nominations | 17:53 |
| fungi | seems like electing ptls slightly earlier and tc members slightly later would be entirely compatible with the release schedule | 17:54 |
| diablo_rojo | I think right now there are two days of overlap | 17:55 |
| fungi | i don't see overlap there | 17:55 |
| fungi | TC Election end: 2020-03-31 | 17:55 |
| fungi | PTL Nominations start: 2020-04-07 | 17:56 |
| fungi | that's a week apart | 17:56 |
| fungi | but we could bump start of tc nominations out a week to 2020-03-17 which puts tc election ending 2020-04-06, then pull ptl nominations back two weeks and ptl election back one week to line up with the tc election | 17:58 |
| fungi | er, i guess that would be pulling ptl nominations back three weeks and ptl elections back two weeks | 17:59 |
| diablo_rojo | These date/time formats are messing with my simple american mind | 17:59 |
| fungi | anyway, that would basically put both ptl and tc elections ending at the start of release milestone 3 week | 18:00 |
| fungi | or we could bump the tc schedule out two weeks and pull the ptl nominations back two and ptl elections back one, so they end a week before rc1 target week | 18:01 |
| fungi | mainly concerned that one week between tc elections ending and ptl nominations starting could lead to some election fatigue | 18:01 |
| fungi | but it's still definitely doable | 18:02 |
| diablo_rojo | So basically the options are one week in between or simultaneous again? | 18:02 |
| fungi | though we likely need to get the extra-atcs deadline shifted back some in the release schedule | 18:02 |
| fungi | well, back-to-back could also be an option, but that would be worse than either i think | 18:03 |
| diablo_rojo | shift the extra-atcs date if we do the one week in between? | 18:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah okay well I can include that as an option too, but I dont think that will be popular. | 18:03 |
| diablo_rojo | At least I hope not. | 18:03 |
| fungi | yeah, the default/optimal recommendation from the script is to start voting on tc seats 2020-03-24 and the release schedule says the extra-atcs deadline is Mar 23 - Mar 27 | 18:05 |
| fungi | we'd need to shift the extra-atcs deadline in the release schedule back at least a week if we don't shift the tc election forward | 18:05 |
| diablo_rojo | ahh okay yeah that makes sense | 18:06 |
| fungi | maybe even two weeks since that's the deadline to propose extra-atcs, and then the tc still needs time to approve those patches | 18:06 |
| fungi | one other thing to keep in mind, looks like the last tc election concluded on 2019-09-03 and the "optimal" calculation has us ending the next tc election on 2020-03-31 which is nearly 7 months between | 18:10 |
| fungi | oh, though what really matters is the one before it because these are "one year" terms | 18:10 |
| fungi | but yeah, 2019-03-05 is when we ended the train tc election | 18:11 |
| fungi | so still, nearly 13 months | 18:11 |
| fungi | thankfully the recently-updated bylaws now say this in the tc member policy appendix: "Each Technical Committee member shall hold the seat for a term not to exceed sixteen months, but may be re-elected to the Technical Committee. After January 1, 2019, the term for the members of the Technical Committee shall be approved by a majority of the Technical Committee (“Term”) and shall be published | 18:12 |
| fungi | publicly before each Technical Committee election; if no such Term is published the Term will be twelve calendar months." | 18:12 |
| fungi | though that's still kinda sticky | 18:13 |
| fungi | because the tc can't now extend the term for the members elected a year ago to be 13 months instead of 12, they would have needed to predict it at least as far back as last february | 18:14 |
| fungi | so if anything, we may need to widen the gap between tc and ptl elections to accommodate the fact that the tc members elected last march will have their terms expiring weeks before the next election concludes | 18:16 |
| fungi | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#election-for-tc-seats | 18:17 |
| fungi | "If the vacancy opens less than four weeks before the candidacy period for the next scheduled TC election begins, and the seat vacated would have been contested in the upcoming election anyway, then the seat will remain open until the election and filled by the normal election process." | 18:18 |
| fungi | seems like a strict interpretation of that means the tc would be down to 6 members for a few weeks between when those terms expired and the next election concluded | 18:19 |
| fungi | one other wrinkle to take into account, there was discussion last time about shrinking the tc over time, but it came up during the election so was too late to change then. we should make sure well in advance we know how many seats we're going to be filling | 18:21 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: do you want to bring these topics up in the scheduling e-mail thread, or try to get some initial input/guidance in #openstack-tc first on the policy-related challenges? | 18:31 |
| fungi | i'm worried that the current wording in the bylaws and tc charter are going to tie our hands on when we can legitimately schedule a tc election | 18:32 |
| diablo_rojo | I was gonna write an email and tag it with [tc] and then mention it in office hours | 18:32 |
| fungi | wfm | 18:32 |
| diablo_rojo | I can draft a thing in an etherpad for your sign off too :) | 18:33 |
| fungi | but if we get the issue in front of them nowish, then they can possibly come up with improvements to the charter which make this more flexible without them having to operate at half-capacity for weeks | 18:33 |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah that makes sense. | 18:34 |
| fungi | i suspect what needs to happen is the tc needs to start declaring terms as 14 months with an expectation that members willingly step down at the conclusion of teh election | 18:34 |
| diablo_rojo | I will get the email drafted by the end of the day so you and tonyb and andymccr and ianychoi can look at it and I can send it tomorrow | 18:35 |
| fungi | so that they can move the election timeframe as much as 8 or 9 weeks out if future circumstances demand | 18:35 |
| fungi | thanks diablo_rojo! | 18:35 |
| fungi | the updated bylaws provide for the tc declaring terms as long as 16 months, but insist that they do it before the terms start | 18:36 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | fungi, tonyb[m], tonyb, andymccr here is the email (yes I realize I should have made the name of the etherpad 'v-election' instead of ussuri: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ussuri-election-email | 22:25 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Feel free to add/edit, etc. | 22:25 |
| fungi | whatevs | 22:28 |
| fungi | thanks for writing it up! | 22:28 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | I'll get it right in the title of the email :) | 22:29 |
| diablo_rojo | Also lol, I have two ircclients open on my laptop at once. | 22:29 |
| diablo_rojo | All the irc nicks! | 22:29 |
| * tonyb is trying to ready the scrollback | 22:37 | |
| tonyb | y'all chatted a bunch | 22:37 |
| fungi | surry 'bout dat | 22:38 |
| tonyb[m] | No you aren't | 22:38 |
| tonyb[m] | :) | 22:38 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: lgtm, i'll remember to send a follow-up pointing out the bylaws and charter problems with the 13-month term | 22:39 |
| tonyb[m] | I liked diablo_rojo_phon and diablo_rojo's idea ... one nic for scollback one for now ;P | 22:39 |
| fungi | all my nicks are for scrollback | 22:39 |
| tonyb[m] | hehe | 22:40 |
| tonyb[m] | We can switch date formats if is helps diablo_rojo's "simple american mind" ;p | 22:40 |
| * tonyb[m] ducks | 22:40 | |
| diablo_rojo | It just took me a while to get into the mindset :P | 22:51 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, sounds good | 22:51 |
| tonyb | #shipit | 22:52 |
| diablo_rojo | I guess if I send it out today it could get discussed during the TC meeting tomorrow maybe. | 22:52 |
| tonyb | Just so y'all know I probably wont be able to be an offical as I *expect* to be on vacation then #badtiming | 22:52 |
| diablo_rojo | They don't have wifi on your vacation tonyb? | 22:53 |
| * tonyb[m] isn't planning on taking a laptop ;P | 22:53 | |
| tonyb[m] | I'll have my phone but .... | 22:53 |
| diablo_rojo | Convenient that you have irc and a nickname specifically for your phone then ;) | 22:54 |
| fungi | the best sort of vacation | 22:54 |
| tonyb[m] | I'm willing to help with any coding leading up to the election and if the email deadline is before I leave I can happily help with that side of things | 22:54 |
| fungi | there's a good chance of me not being an election official too, as i may decide to run for a tc seat agan | 22:54 |
| fungi | er, again too | 22:54 |
| diablo_rojo | So its just me? And hopefully andymccr? | 22:55 |
| * diablo_rojo feels abandoned | 22:55 | |
| fungi | don't forget ianychoi! | 22:55 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: and ianchoi? | 22:55 |
| diablo_rojo | Ah yes and ianychoi | 22:55 |
| * tonyb feels really bad now :/ | 22:55 | |
| fungi | and persia of course | 22:56 |
| * diablo_rojo is surprised at her half assed guilt trip worked on tonyb so easily | 22:56 | |
| fungi | it's my just desserts for being left to lead new folks mostly on my own last time | 22:56 |
| * fungi wields the mighty dwarven hammer "karmabringer" | 22:57 | |
| fungi | i'll still be around to help identify/fix problems in tooling, i just will recuse myself of the access to approve stuff | 22:59 |
| * tonyb kinda feels like persia has been absent through the last couple of elections and possibly should be dropped until they have more time | 22:59 | |
| diablo_rojo | Can only imagine what that hammer looks like.. | 22:59 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: I guess I'm just a sucker | 22:59 |
| fungi | tonyb: you should work on that | 23:00 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, he just likes laying down in front of buses too much | 23:00 |
| tonyb | fungi: true | 23:00 |
| diablo_rojo | (email sent) | 23:01 |
| fungi | thanks! | 23:01 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, no problemo | 23:01 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: hey that got me a medal! | 23:01 |
| fungi | i'll get my reply in before the tc meeting | 23:01 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: thanks! | 23:01 |
| fungi | to give you something to talk about | 23:01 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, sounds good | 23:01 |
| * diablo_rojo needs to look up when the meeting is tomorrow | 23:01 | |
| * diablo_rojo should probably attend being a TC person now lol | 23:01 | |
| * fungi likes referring to tc members as a group in the second person for a while still | 23:02 | |
| diablo_rojo | tonyb, my pleasure | 23:02 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: painfully early for you | 23:02 |
| fungi | don't have too much fun tonight | 23:02 |
| * tonyb doesn't have it in his calendar | 23:02 | |
| * diablo_rojo cringes | 23:02 | |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, what time is it? | 23:02 |
| diablo_rojo | Early enough that I shouldn't go to bed? lol | 23:03 |
| fungi | 7am your time? | 23:03 |
| fungi | 6am | 23:03 |
| tonyb | 1400 UTC | 23:03 |
| fungi | 14:00z yeag | 23:03 |
| fungi | yeah | 23:03 |
| tonyb | so maybe 6am | 23:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Ouch. | 23:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah 6 AM | 23:03 |
| tonyb | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Technical_Committee_Meeting | 23:03 |
| fungi | just go ahead and get to be now | 23:03 |
| tonyb | hover over the 1400 UTC ;P | 23:03 |
| fungi | er, to bed | 23:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Well luckily I have some recent experience getting up at the crack of dawn | 23:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Another few hours earlier and I wouldnt have gone to bed lol | 23:04 |
| fungi | your schedule is now dictated by a four-legged alarm clock | 23:04 |
| diablo_rojo | 6AM is no bueno either way. | 23:05 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: Pfft I've had (well made) my first coffee by then | 23:06 |
| * tonyb wonders if he can mention http://rule5.org ... without looking like a jerk ;P | 23:07 | |
| diablo_rojo | tonyb, yes, but I like sleep and am good at it. | 23:07 |
| diablo_rojo | LOL | 23:07 |
| * tonyb totally has that on cycling jerseys ;P | 23:08 | |
| fungi | i enjoy hard work. i could sit and watch it all day long | 23:10 |
| tonyb | LOL | 23:11 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, with a beer in hand? | 23:12 |
| * fungi is literally at the beach enjoying beer in front of a warm fire and listening to t-bone burnett | 23:12 | |
| * diablo_rojo is in a coffeeshop looking out at the grey, rainy sky | 23:16 | |
| fungi | it's already dark here, with the palm trees blowing in the winter holiday lights | 23:18 |
| fungi | (yes, i know it's not actually winter yet in this hemisphere) | 23:19 |
| tonyb | fungi: winter'ish | 23:19 |
| fungi | ((also most of our "holiday lights" are halloween colors and stay up year 'round anyway)) | 23:19 |
| tonyb | hehe | 23:20 |
| diablo_rojo | I want to do Christmas lights, now that we have a house, but idk when that will happen | 23:21 |
| fungi | if patrick is anything like me, it'll be a permanent installation with an indoor switch you can turn on and off | 23:33 |
| fungi | i can't stand the idea of putting stuff up that i know i just have to take down again in a few months | 23:33 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, I would gladly leave up the outdoor ones, but our HOA requires them to be down like.. <4 weeks post holiday | 23:38 |
| diablo_rojo | Its in the bylaws or whatever | 23:39 |
| fungi | does turning off a switch so they no longer light up count? | 23:40 |
| fungi | though we picked our current house because it's in the only neighborhood on the island which isn't bound by hoa covenants, i hate hoas | 23:41 |
| fungi | okay, replies sent about term limits and reducing tc seats | 23:55 |
| fungi | hopefully that gives food for thought during the tc meeting | 23:55 |
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