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| johnthetubaguy | ckonstanski: if you are ever curious, take a look at: http://status.openstack.org/zuul/ | 10:04 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: We are currently having capacity issues with our ubuntu-xenial nodes. We have addressed the issue but will be another few hours before new images have been uploaded to all cloud providers. | 12:18 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/glance-specs: Fix a typo in semver-support.rst https://review.openstack.org/399837 | 14:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Brian Rosmaita proposed openstack/glance-specs: Glance rolling upgrades https://review.openstack.org/331489 | 19:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Brian Rosmaita proposed openstack/glance-specs: Database strategy for rolling upgrades https://review.openstack.org/331740 | 20:33 |
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| flwang | jokke_: any luck you around? | 22:02 |
| flwang | rosmaita: ping re the multi backend | 22:03 |
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| rosmaita | flwang: hello | 22:07 |
| flwang | rosmaita: is it a good time to discuss the mutil backend? | 22:07 |
| flwang | s/mutil/multi | 22:07 |
| rosmaita | flwang: sure, what's on your mind? | 22:08 |
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| rosmaita | i'm thinking that we want to have a good understanding of what the issues/use cases are going into the PTG | 22:09 |
| rosmaita | so we can have some good design discussion then | 22:09 |
| * rosmaita wonders if flwang will be at the PTG | 22:09 | |
| rosmaita | if not, we'll have to make arrangements to connect remotely | 22:10 |
| flwang | i can't | 22:12 |
| flwang | be at the PTG since no fund from my company :( | 22:12 |
| flwang | in barcelona summit, there are some interest for the multi backend but seems there is no follow up from those people, right? | 22:13 |
| flwang | at least, i didn't see any spec | 22:13 |
| flwang | and one thing i haven't figure out is when we say multi backend, what is user really want? multi backend for same scheme, or different scheme | 22:14 |
| flwang | for example, multi ceph cluster, or support swift and RBD meanwhile | 22:14 |
| flwang | people always come and say "I like this", but they don't follow it up much after saying, but multi backend has been asked many times, so even though there is no follow up. I would like to pick it up and drive it to see if we can get another good feature for glance | 22:16 |
| flwang | and BTW, in glance v1, we do support 'multi backend', user can specify the back store to save their image data, but in v2, it's not supported. do you know the story under table? | 22:17 |
| flwang | i found it's not hard to know why we have something in community, but it's very hard to know why we get rid of something :( | 22:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Alexander Bashmakov proposed openstack/glance-specs: Glance Expand/Contract migrations with Alembic https://review.openstack.org/374278 | 22:19 |
| flwang | rosmaita: do you have the permission to assign this bp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/multi-store to me? | 22:22 |
| rosmaita | flwang: looking | 22:26 |
| rosmaita | flwang: i forgot to get the name of the guy who promised to work on the spec | 22:26 |
| rosmaita | though now that i think about it, i asked him to start with a user story in the PWG repo | 22:26 |
| rosmaita | i should look and see if he proposed something there | 22:26 |
| rosmaita | ok, assigned that BP to you | 22:28 |
| rosmaita | flwang: ^^ | 22:29 |
| rosmaita | flwang: don't see anything about this in https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/openstack-user-stories+status:open | 22:29 |
| rosmaita | flwang: i thought we supported "multi backend" for read, via image locations | 22:30 |
| flwang | rosmaita: thanks | 22:30 |
| rosmaita | np | 22:30 |
| flwang | no saving? | 22:30 |
| rosmaita | don't think so, you can only upload to the configured backend | 22:31 |
| rosmaita | i thought that was the case with v1 too | 22:31 |
| flwang | i mean, in v1, user can save image data into the specified store | 22:34 |
| flwang | so the multi store feature should support it as a baseline, no? | 22:34 |
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| rosmaita | flwang: but the user cannot specify what store to use in v1, right? | 22:47 |
| flwang | rosmaita: user can specify which store to be used ;) | 22:47 |
| rosmaita | hoe? | 22:48 |
| rosmaita | *how? | 22:48 |
| flwang | rosmaita: https://github.com/openstack/glance/blob/master/glance/api/v1/images.py#L648 | 22:49 |
| rosmaita | wow | 22:49 |
| rosmaita | ok, so that explains the scheme-to-store mapping stuff in glance_store | 22:50 |
| flwang | hence I asked, why it's removed silently | 22:50 |
| flwang | in v2 | 22:50 |
| rosmaita | well, v1 was never supposed to be exposed to end-users, only to services | 22:50 |
| rosmaita | the idea is that an end-user shouldn't have to know about the scheme, etc | 22:51 |
| flwang | if so, that basically means nova want to get a feature like that? ;) | 22:51 |
| rosmaita | maybe, or it was over-engineering | 22:52 |
| flwang | user may don't care about the scheme, but they may care about the capabilities of the backend | 22:52 |
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| flwang | like SSD or SATA | 22:52 |
| flwang | but as you can see, people are asking it again and again | 22:52 |
| rosmaita | maybe, but probably only cost | 22:52 |
| flwang | which triggered me we should consider this seriously | 22:53 |
| flwang | yep, cost is a better word here | 22:53 |
| rosmaita | cost or something like "performance levels" | 22:53 |
| rosmaita | which woulud probaby be the same thing in the long run | 22:54 |
| rosmaita | like gold, silver, or bronze storage | 22:54 |
| flwang | exactly | 22:54 |
| rosmaita | anyway, it will be good for you to document some operator requests for this feature | 22:54 |
| rosmaita | and also that it is apparently available in v1 | 22:55 |
| flwang | i think user want to get more than the v1 provided | 22:55 |
| rosmaita | and that scheme-based support seems kind of fragile to me | 22:55 |
| flwang | like another location strategy | 22:55 |
| flwang | rosmaita: we may have to support some kind of mapping like Cinder did | 22:56 |
| rosmaita | yeah, that's what erno was saying, too | 22:56 |
| flwang | and even a new API endpoint to publish the available backend list | 22:56 |
| flwang | so that a cloud provider can expose the backend they can support | 22:57 |
| flwang | glad to know you're basically positive on this idea | 22:58 |
| flwang | btw, i added new comments on the security bug | 22:58 |
| rosmaita | ok, i saw that, will review in a bit | 22:59 |
| flwang | rosmaita: cool, btw, i would prefer to propose glance spec instead of PWG for the multi backend which i suppose can make my life easier | 23:00 |
| rosmaita | flwang: yes, i'm basically positive, my personal opinion is that a priority for pike should be: (1) "rationalizing" multiple image locations (i.e., figuring out exactly what they're used for), (2) better ceph/cinder snapshotting support, (3) multiple backend support | 23:00 |
| flwang | rosmaita: awesome | 23:01 |
| flwang | all are my fav topics | 23:01 |
| rosmaita | flwang: well, i'd kind of like to get some product people and operators to help formulate the user stories | 23:01 |
| flwang | ok, if you prefer to do that, i don't mind | 23:02 |
| rosmaita | but if you really don't want to do a PWG user story, you can do a glance spec and then publicize it on the operators list | 23:02 |
| rosmaita | flwang: depends on what kind of time you have (I imagine you are busy with zaquar) | 23:02 |
| flwang | i will do most i can do | 23:02 |
| rosmaita | ok, well think about what you think makes sense as far as user-story vs spec goes, i'm ok wiht whatever you decide | 23:03 |
| rosmaita | it's going to be an OSIC priority also, so won't be a problem getting reviews | 23:04 |
| flwang | rosmaita: btw, as for multi locations, what i really want to know are: 1. if it's used much 2. if Glance still want to take it as a feature or hole | 23:04 |
| flwang | you mean multi backend is on the list of OSIC priority? | 23:05 |
| rosmaita | more or less | 23:05 |
| rosmaita | probably of the 3 things i outlined above, OSIC order would be 2,3,1 | 23:05 |
| rosmaita | though i think 1 is a pre-requisite for 2 and 3 | 23:06 |
| rosmaita | and not on the priority list yet, but i am pretty sure they will be for Pike | 23:06 |
| rosmaita | flwang: hey, got 8 responses to my poll about what to do about image visibility migration | 23:08 |
| rosmaita | so maybe we should put together a really short google form, maybe 3-4 questions and send out a message to the operators list | 23:09 |
| flwang | that's a good idea | 23:10 |
| flwang | will do | 23:10 |
| rosmaita | why don't you come up with 3-4 questions in an etherpad, and i can work with you on refining them | 23:11 |
| flwang | rosmaita: you're always smart than me on this kind of stuff ;) | 23:12 |
| flwang | double check, we're talking about the multi locations, right? | 23:12 |
| rosmaita | flwang: yes: multi locations | 23:15 |
| rosmaita | we'll send email to operators' list saying, if you use multiple locations, please fill out this 3 question form | 23:15 |
| rosmaita | and then on the form we can ask about use cases | 23:16 |
| flwang | fantatic | 23:16 |
| rosmaita | or about what aspects of multiple locations they use | 23:16 |
| rosmaita | whatever you think makes sense | 23:16 |
| rosmaita | it could just be (1) describe your use case, (2) if multiple location support were removed, would you be sad? | 23:17 |
| flwang | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/survey-of-multi-locations | 23:17 |
| rosmaita | you're not wasting any time! | 23:17 |
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| flwang | rosmaita: that looks good for me | 23:35 |
| flwang | i will use it as the email template | 23:35 |
| flwang | how about setting the due date as next Friday? | 23:36 |
| rosmaita | flwang: i'd like to get stevelle to take a look at this first, he's smart about this kind of thing | 23:36 |
| flwang | rosmaita: ok, i can wait for sure :) | 23:37 |
| flwang | unless there is a +1 from stevelle | 23:37 |
| rosmaita | flwang: my only concern about timing is that this is a holiday week in USA, lots of people will take off end of this week, beginning of next week | 23:37 |
| rosmaita | stevelle: please take a look at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/survey-of-multi-locations when you have a chance | 23:38 |
| rosmaita | sigmavirus: you too ^^ | 23:39 |
| flwang | rosmaita: ok, so what's the good due date then? | 23:41 |
| rosmaita | not sure, let's see what stevelle and sigmavirus think | 23:41 |
| rosmaita | may have to put it a week later than you proposed, maybe december 9? | 23:42 |
| rosmaita | depends on when we send the email, too | 23:42 |
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| flwang | ok, got | 23:47 |
| flwang | thanks, Brian | 23:47 |
| flwang | i'm good now | 23:47 |
| flwang | thanks for all your input | 23:47 |
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