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| openstackgerrit | Kenji Ishii proposed openstack/horizon: Refactor the way to get quotas for neutron by using neutron.default_quota_get https://review.openstack.org/373130 | 01:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kenji Ishii proposed openstack/horizon: Fix a script error which is occurred when choosing no file https://review.openstack.org/390422 | 01:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kenji Ishii proposed openstack/horizon: Add create domain action in angular domain panel https://review.openstack.org/397080 | 02:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/horizon: Imported Translations from Zanata https://review.openstack.org/406770 | 07:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/horizon: Imported Translations from Zanata https://review.openstack.org/406770 | 08:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/horizon: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/406455 | 09:11 |
| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/horizon: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/406822 | 09:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | anusha proposed openstack/horizon: UX: Bullets in Launch Instance Wizard don't have left-padding https://review.openstack.org/406879 | 10:26 |
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| rdopiera | tsufiev_: hi | 10:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kenji Ishii proposed openstack/horizon: Add delete domain action in angular domain panel https://review.openstack.org/397539 | 13:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/horizon: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/406822 | 13:49 |
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| ducttape_ | o/ | 15:53 |
| ducttape_ | fun /scary times at our office today, turned into a horizon joke - https://twitter.com/openmfisch/status/805800024235982852 | 15:53 |
| robcresswell | ducttape_: nice | 15:55 |
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| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: hey rob - do you know if horizon supports microversions for any projects yet? | 16:54 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: We have some basic Nova support, but its not really a scalable design | 16:58 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: We discussed it a bit at the summit, and there was a plan but nobody seems to be working on it right now | 16:59 |
| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: so no blueprints yet? | 17:00 |
| ediardo | I'm interested on reading them (if any) | 17:00 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: Not that I'm aware of off the top of my head | 17:02 |
| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: ok - thanks for the info. | 17:02 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_, ediardo: The problem IIRC is that apparently microversions dont have to maintain functionality. So... something may be supported in 2.1 and 2.3 a different way. and 2.2 may not support it | 17:03 |
| robcresswell | I've not really spent any time with microversion APIs though. | 17:03 |
| robcresswell | Because if that is true... I dont even understand how an antipattern like that could ever be acceptable :/ | 17:03 |
| sjmc7 | i think that’d be a bit unusual | 17:04 |
| sjmc7 | typically a feature will be supported for a range of versions | 17:05 |
| sjmc7 | but in any case when you make requests you specify the version of the API you’re using | 17:06 |
| robcresswell | Yeah | 17:06 |
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| robcresswell | the problem is how to program around this in horizon | 17:06 |
| sjmc7 | the question i guess is which version gets deployed | 17:06 |
| sjmc7 | on the nova side, because if you can just pick one some time during the release and are sure it’ll be there then you’re golden | 17:07 |
| sjmc7 | otherwise it does just push the versioning problem out to users | 17:07 |
| sjmc7 | maybe they need a kind of LTS idea | 17:07 |
| rhagarty_ | it will be a bit messy... horizon api calls will need to specify version per resource. For example in cinder, generic groups will only be available in 3.11, and consistency groups (that are being replaced by generic groups) won't be available in 4.0 | 17:08 |
| robcresswell | I'd need to read more to understand why we dont just use semver etc | 17:08 |
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| robcresswell | The thing is, to offer full support it seems like Horizon would have to maintain a huge dictionary of options | 17:09 |
| sjmc7 | yeah, and that’s not practical | 17:10 |
| robcresswell | { "3.11": ["feature_1", "feature_2"], "3.12": [] } etc | 17:10 |
| sjmc7 | what will actually end up happening is that consumers will have a list of supported versions which i imagine will be one or two per release | 17:10 |
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| rhagarty_ | horizon would need to have access to the current version, then "know" what version is required for each resource, then be able to modify the request header to specify version | 17:11 |
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| sjmc7 | rhagarty_: is it expected that nova will support a large set of versions over a given time period? | 17:11 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: But how does Horizon know what is supported for each version? | 17:12 |
| rhagarty_ | hardcoded | 17:13 |
| robcresswell | :) | 17:13 |
| robcresswell | So Horizon maintains a list for each microversioned service of what can be done at each microversion? | 17:14 |
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| rhagarty_ | I guess... until a cleaner look-up service is provided | 17:15 |
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| rhagarty_ | any different than now? how do we handle new features in v2 vs. v1? | 17:15 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: If >2 do a thing | 17:15 |
| rhagarty_ | now it would be >3.11 do a thing | 17:15 |
| robcresswell | rather than if > 2.11 do one thing, if >2.14 do a different thing, if == 2.17 dont do a thing | 17:15 |
| robcresswell | but microversions can break right? so > isnt guaranteed any more. | 17:16 |
| rhagarty_ | again, it would be per resource. So, for cinder generic groups, I just need to know if the current client version supports 3.11, and if it does, I need to adjust the request header to specify using 3.11 in my call to the client to get me all generic groups | 17:17 |
| robcresswell | so it'd be more along the lines of a list of features and which versions they are supported in, rather than which versions support which features | 17:18 |
| rhagarty_ | agreed | 17:18 |
| robcresswell | This is still quite a lot of manual work. Every new feature would need a list of version numbers, right? Because we cant guarantee compatibility going forward, so you'd need each version explicitly | 17:19 |
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| rhagarty_ | I think a majority of features fall into the v2 vs. v3 range, which we have to handle currently. For cinder generic groups, it just so happens that the change was put in post v3 (3.11). | 17:21 |
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| robcresswell | Right | 17:21 |
| rhagarty_ | (can't speak for other projects) | 17:21 |
| robcresswell | And then say, 3.14 changes the implementation, and we have to add generic_groups_2: 3.14 to our list :/ | 17:22 |
| robcresswell | Or 3.14 releases, and we forget to update the list, and a customer is baffled why it doesnt work | 17:22 |
| rhagarty_ | yes, could get messy. But I think the idea is to always support backward compatibility, so 3.14 could add features but shouldn't break 3.11 | 17:23 |
| robcresswell | I don't believe thats the case, though again, I'm fairly naive on this | 17:24 |
| robcresswell | In http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/devref/api_microversion_dev.html the opening paragraph states "So breaking changes can be added to the API without breaking users who don’t specifically ask for it" | 17:24 |
| robcresswell | if its backwards compatible thats fine, because at that point its basically semver anyway, and we can parse it like that really. | 17:25 |
| * robcresswell doesnt understand microversions | 17:25 | |
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| rhagarty_ | yes, we in horizon need to come up with a game plan. | 17:26 |
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| rhagarty_ | project teams implementing new microversions of APIs are really concerned about Horizon | 17:27 |
| rhagarty_ | s are/aren't | 17:27 |
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| sjmc7 | robcresswell: since the CLI clients have to support it and horizon uses those at the moment, maybe it’s already abstracted away? | 17:28 |
| rhagarty_ | otherwise we can only code to the major releases | 17:28 |
| robcresswell | sjmc7: True, I should look at that | 17:29 |
| sjmc7 | unless they also don't | 17:29 |
| rhagarty_ | the CLI requires the user to specify microversion (e.x. OpenStack-API-Version: volume 3.11) | 17:29 |
| sjmc7 | how does the user know? | 17:29 |
| robcresswell | How does the user know ? | 17:29 |
| robcresswell | lol | 17:30 |
| sjmc7 | jinx! | 17:30 |
| rhagarty_ | it's in the docs | 17:30 |
| robcresswell | How on earth did this become common practice... | 17:30 |
| rhagarty_ | the true OpenStack way... | 17:30 |
| sjmc7 | i think probably what will happen for horizon (and in my case searchlight) is that we’ll pick a microversion that supports the stuff we want in a given release and code to that | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | i can’t see every project having to maintain a massive registry of versions -> API sigs | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | same way as we do with the existing python client versions | 17:31 |
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| rhagarty_ | that's what I was thinking... | 17:32 |
| sjmc7 | so if someone adds a feature in 3.12 but another was removed in 3.11 that’ll be a conversion effort at that point to deal with both those changes | 17:33 |
| rhagarty_ | I was going down that road, but couldn't see an easy way to modify the request header to specify the microversion - which led to this discussion | 17:33 |
| sjmc7 | same way as it would be if the python client did the same thing | 17:33 |
| rhagarty_ | sjmc7: yes, we would do this for specific resources | 17:34 |
| robcresswell | I'm trying to figure out the workflow. I guess when you are checking if a feature should be shown in Horizon, you would first get the current (i.e. MAX) and min_version, then check each version that the requested feature is supported in, decreasing each time. So if FEATURE_X is in 3.10 and 3.11, and the service has support for 2.1 to 3.10, we make put 3.10 | 17:35 |
| robcresswell | in the request header. If the service supports up to 3.11, we put 3.11 in the request header. Basing this on the assumption that "new is normally better" | 17:35 |
| rhagarty_ | yes, that looks about right. | 17:37 |
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| rhagarty_ | FYI, just to clarify what I said earlier about the CLI, here is the command to show new 3.11 features for cinder - "cinder —os-volume-api-version 3.14 help" | 17:39 |
| rhagarty_ | sorry, 3.14 features | 17:40 |
| rhagarty_ | this will give you a different list than "cinder help" | 17:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Timur Sufiev proposed openstack/horizon: Remove additional response.render() for tabs https://review.openstack.org/333345 | 18:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/horizon: Rework hardcoded policy in admin dash https://review.openstack.org/399786 | 18:09 |
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| robcresswell | rhagarty_: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-microversion-support | 18:27 |
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| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: good start... need way to specify feature is no longer supported after 4.0 (for example) | 18:50 |
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| robcresswell | rhagarty_: That's already accounted for by explicit listing of versions | 18:55 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: So if your minimum version is above the listed versions for that feature, it wont be possible to use it. | 18:57 |
| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: does that mean we would have to explicitly update the list on every release of a microversion? | 18:57 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: Yes | 18:58 |
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| robcresswell | rhagarty_: No backwards compatibility means there is no way around this | 18:58 |
| robcresswell | I think. | 18:58 |
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| rhagarty_ | hmmm... | 18:58 |
| robcresswell | If anyone lurking on this chat can tell me why microversions are even remotely sane, that would be awesome | 18:59 |
| robcresswell | :) | 18:59 |
| rhagarty_ | would be nice for the default to be that it works... and only code for intro and removal | 18:59 |
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| rhagarty_ | (intro-removal = feature added/ feature removed | 19:00 |
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| robcresswell | rhagarty_: But we can't guarantee it does work. Thats the whole point isnt it? | 19:04 |
| rhagarty_ | need clarity on that point | 19:05 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: The nova and cinder specs seems to indicate breaking changes are fine. Also, coding for intro-removal doesnt solve it; if something was removed in the newest version, (say, 3.18 to choose an arbitrary number) then Horizon would still be broken | 19:06 |
| robcresswell | at least if we had an old version, like 3.15, it would work, even if old. | 19:06 |
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| rhagarty_ | robcresswell: yes, explicit if a better way to manage, it's just going to be tough to manage/sync changes | 19:08 |
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| rhagarty_ | if/is | 19:08 |
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| robcresswell | yeah :/ | 19:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Cindy Lu proposed openstack/horizon: NG details view route should not be '/project/...' https://review.openstack.org/396800 | 22:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Cindy Lu proposed openstack/horizon: NG details view route should not be '/project/...' https://review.openstack.org/396800 | 22:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Peterson proposed openstack/horizon: Switch cinder to usage quotas https://review.openstack.org/309204 | 22:39 |
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