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| amotoki | ianychoi: you around? | 13:18 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, I am here:) | 13:37 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: hi. first, thanks for serving as a PTL! | 13:38 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: I see confusion on string freeze from reviewer perspective. I had a discussion on horizon channel today. | 13:39 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, thank you very much! However I still need to learn a lot. | 13:39 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: no problem. we're a team and a community. | 13:39 |
| ianychoi | Can I know what confusion is on-going in Horizon? | 13:40 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: it is not specific to horizon. Around string freeze, reviewers feel what can be accepted or what are not. | 13:40 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: I think we (both i18n and project teams) need more concrete guideline on string freeze. | 13:41 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: you already jumped in a discussion on the -dev list a few days ago. | 13:41 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: I think we (as i18n team) needs to express more feedback to project teams | 13:42 |
| amotoki | for example, what can be accepted? what are problems? | 13:42 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, I agree with it. Moreover, currently AFAIK there are 15 languages but for 2 languages, translation ratio is < 65% | 13:42 |
| ianychoi | (specific to Horizon but anyway) | 13:42 |
| amotoki | aga.. that is a bad news | 13:43 |
| ianychoi | So I have been sending e-mails to the translators for a few days, | 13:43 |
| amotoki | though it happens several times before.. | 13:43 |
| ianychoi | and now some guys are replying. | 13:43 |
| amotoki | what kind of replies? | 13:44 |
| ianychoi | They said that they would make translations | 13:44 |
| amotoki | yay! | 13:44 |
| ianychoi | :) | 13:45 |
| ianychoi | But... let's go back to your current concerns.. | 13:45 |
| amotoki | I think we can do several things. | 13:45 |
| ianychoi | Yep I agree that as a Ocata PTL I need to more express feedback to project teams. | 13:45 |
| amotoki | the final goal is to have a consensus on review guidelines on string freeze (and hopefully on stable branches) | 13:46 |
| ianychoi | But just saying feedback that 'translators need more string freeze time' would not be feasible I think.. | 13:46 |
| ianychoi | Question: in your saying, 'review' means Zanata review? | 13:46 |
| amotoki | what in my mind are: (1) first we gather what we expect "string freeze" and what we need from translators. | 13:46 |
| amotoki | 'review' means a review in most openstack project. | 13:47 |
| ianychoi | Oh, I see | 13:47 |
| amotoki | and then (2) we collect questions from reviewers of most projects (horizon related and server side projects) | 13:48 |
| amotoki | I can send a kickoff mail to the i18n list, and hopefully we can do (1) in the summit or so. | 13:49 |
| ianychoi | Yes I like your idea. And now we also need how 'translation itself' and 'cross-relation with other teams' are well balanced I think. | 13:51 |
| ianychoi | I think for latest 6 months I have mainly seen the second point, however I could not see the first point. | 13:52 |
| ianychoi | I am now worried and thinking about how those things are well-balanced in our team. | 13:52 |
| amotoki | for the first point, previously we complained we had too many changes after "string freeze" (not hard string freeze). | 13:53 |
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| amotoki | for example, what kind of changes are okay after 'string freeze'? | 13:53 |
| amotoki | I think tens or twenty of small changes do not matter. | 13:53 |
| ianychoi | Aha.. yep I totally agree with your point. | 13:54 |
| amotoki | even after "string freeze", I am suggesting to accept changes which are categorized into: | 13:55 |
| amotoki | (a) typo or wrong message should be fixed, or | 13:55 |
| amotoki | (b) feedbacks from translation (unless we have too many changes) | 13:55 |
| ianychoi | It is not easy for me to build up such criteria, but I think 1) typos are allowed 2) Fuzzy strings classified as Zanata is also fine (e.g., Singular/plural problem) | 13:55 |
| amotoki | it is not easy. I agree. | 13:56 |
| ianychoi | OR I am not sure, but >80% similarity from the original sentence? This idea may come from the usage of translation memory, but it is not so easy. | 13:56 |
| amotoki | Big changes like accepting blueprints with a lot of new strings | 13:57 |
| amotoki | this is NOT NOT allowed | 13:57 |
| amotoki | but some small changes are welcome in general. | 13:57 |
| amotoki | for example, horizon team discussed about a change like this: | 13:58 |
| amotoki | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335026/1/openstack_dashboard/dashboards/project/instances/templates/instances/_flavors_and_quotas.html | 13:58 |
| amotoki | a change from 'image' to 'boot source' | 13:58 |
| amotoki | is it allowed or not? | 13:58 |
| ianychoi | +1 And gradually, showing some best practices will be also good idea I think. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/104178.html | 13:58 |
| amotoki | yeah. I think we are reaching a consensus. | 13:59 |
| ianychoi | For me, it is fine. But I will not like if the total number of those changes in one project would be for example >5% | 13:59 |
| amotoki | tend to agree... | 14:00 |
| amotoki | we don't want to see a pile of small change :( | 14:00 |
| ianychoi | Oops... sorry I need have one hangout for one hour from now.. | 14:00 |
| amotoki | no worries. | 14:00 |
| amotoki | I think it is time to have some writing up. | 14:00 |
| amotoki | I will start the discussion in a couple of days | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | I think we have concensus :) Thank you very much | 14:01 |
| amotoki | thanks! | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | And it seems that Kato-san is now a little busy.. | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | So I will share translation ratio for Horizon maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. | 14:02 |
| amotoki | good reminder :) | 14:02 |
| ianychoi | I recently checked that Doug quitted from IBM.. So you are the only Horizon-I18n liaison :) | 14:02 |
| amotoki | doug-fish quitted IBM a couple of months ago | 14:03 |
| ianychoi | I did not know that.. :) | 14:04 |
| amotoki | he sent a mail to horizon folks... but no worries. we have many supporters | 14:06 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, yep and thank you very much for raising up issue :) | 14:18 |
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