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| eumel8 | o/ | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| eumel8 | #startmeeting openstack_i18n_office_hour | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 22 14:00:50 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eumel8. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_i18n_office_hour)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_office_hour' | 14:00 |
| eumel8 | hello | 14:01 |
| eumel8 | welcome to I18n office hour | 14:01 |
| eumel8 | if I'm right, it's Thursday :) | 14:02 |
| Linkid | hi | 14:04 |
| eumel8 | hi Linkid | 14:06 |
| jpich | Hello | 14:17 |
| eumel8 | hello jpich | 14:17 |
| eumel8 | our main topic is greetings, so far :) | 14:18 |
| jpich | Good topic | 14:18 |
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| eumel8 | I have prepared some more | 14:22 |
| eumel8 | #topic: Recap Berlin Summit | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Recap Berlin Summit (Meeting topic: openstack_i18n_office_hour)" | 14:22 | |
| eumel8 | Last week we had OpenStack Summit in Berlin. | 14:23 |
| eumel8 | I can't give so a nice summary like ianychoi. For the moment I would say, it was successful. We had project update session and project onboarding as usually. | 14:24 |
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| eumel8 | Unfortunatelly the convention center hasn't the right connection to the internet, so the recorded sessions are on the way and currently not online | 14:25 |
| eumel8 | the same for slides upload | 14:26 |
| eumel8 | to highlight was the project doc translation with a finally publishing of OSA translation in German the week before. | 14:28 |
| eumel8 | and OpenInfrastructure Day Korea with a huge contributing in translation | 14:29 |
| eumel8 | The Onboarding Session was nice and quiet. I've just looking around the new projects but there are no needs for translation, for the moment. | 14:32 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, thank u | 14:34 |
| eumel8 | hi ianychoi | 14:34 |
| ianychoi | Oh our meeting time were changed? (Sorry I have not been following up for a while...) | 14:34 |
| eumel8 | no, or I'm wrong. I want to change starting from next week :) | 14:35 |
| ianychoi | Ah I see - fine with me | 14:35 |
| eumel8 | I'm already confused with this summertime and wintertime stuff, but that will end next year | 14:36 |
| eumel8 | nothing to say more about the Summit. Got some good input from UC about community work in Germany. That could be related to I18n. Also the work with Ops team get closer. | 14:38 |
| eumel8 | latest since translation of Ops-Guide https://review.openstack.org/#/c/619455/ ;) | 14:38 |
| eumel8 | the contributor guide is also translatable since yesterday, btw | 14:39 |
| eumel8 | nt | 14:41 |
| eumel8 | #topic: Future Team Meeting | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Future Team Meeting (Meeting topic: openstack_i18n_office_hour)" | 14:41 | |
| eumel8 | for the future of team meeting I've wrote a proposal to move back to team meeting format | 14:42 |
| eumel8 | in a joint session with docs team | 14:42 |
| ianychoi | +1 | 14:42 |
| Linkid | great | 14:43 |
| eumel8 | due the fact there is no feedback from docs team, I want to wait till next week | 14:44 |
| Linkid | there meeting will be next week, I think | 14:45 |
| Linkid | "Every two weeks (on even weeks) on Wednesday" | 14:45 |
| Linkid | they may discuss about that | 14:46 |
| eumel8 | ah, thx, then maybe we move on one week later | 14:46 |
| eumel8 | and hopefully I don't forget the docs meeting time ;) | 14:46 |
| Linkid | wait, I don't see any logs since June 2018 | 14:47 |
| eumel8 | yeah, I checked also the log server yesterday and couln't found anything. | 14:48 |
| eumel8 | it's broken or there wasn't a meeting what I can't believe | 14:49 |
| eumel8 | I think we will see next week | 14:49 |
| ianychoi | okay | 14:50 |
| ianychoi | IMO Petr's opinion would be key | 14:51 |
| eumel8 | yeah, maybe he's still in the bus to Brno ;) | 14:52 |
| eumel8 | nt | 14:52 |
| eumel8 | #topic: Future Translation Platform | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Future Translation Platform (Meeting topic: openstack_i18n_office_hour)" | 14:52 | |
| eumel8 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n/+spec/renew-translation-platform | 14:52 |
| eumel8 | I've wrote this blueprint to be prepared for changing the translation platform. | 14:53 |
| eumel8 | there is no Redhat Zanata team anymore and it wouldn't be come back after the IBM takeover | 14:53 |
| eumel8 | the remaining Redhat guys in AU are working on a slightly different stuff (also with translation) but it's not clear if that would help us to find a new translation platform | 14:55 |
| Linkid | I think transifex were already used before | 14:57 |
| Linkid | And it was abandonned because it's not open source anymore | 14:57 |
| eumel8 | yeah, the same thing can happen with Zanata | 14:58 |
| tosky | if I would guess, it's more likely that it's not going to be developed anymore | 14:58 |
| tosky | transifex story was different | 14:58 |
| tosky | eumel8: is there a reason to mention the standlone clients like poedit? They can always be used, most platforms allows you to download the po files | 14:59 |
| eumel8 | there is no official statement from RedHat or IBM regarding Zanata | 14:59 |
| jpich | There is still a chance that someone else picks up the project, but discussions around that are still on-going... but yeah no official word about the project | 15:00 |
| eumel8 | tosky: Yes, I tried this the last days and it works pretty good. The worst case is to have no translation server anymore | 15:00 |
| tosky | eumel8: so I would add Lokalize to the list | 15:00 |
| ianychoi | I don't have any strong opinion right now on reviewing translation platforms and choosing a new translation platform instead of Zanata, but my feeling right now is that Zanata is still the best among lots of open source implementation for translation platforms. | 15:01 |
| eumel8 | tosky: sure, feel free | 15:01 |
| tosky | I've heard good things about the mozilla one, but I didn't manage to test it yet | 15:01 |
| ianychoi | Before than, I really want to know whethere exporting TM from Zanata is possible or not. | 15:01 |
| ianychoi | If current TM in Zanata can be exported and imported to another translation platform, then I think we can go further on a new translation platform. | 15:02 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: you know, I want to go the next step in the direction of Machine Translation. And that wouldn't be possible if there are no developement on the platform anymore. | 15:02 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, I understand but my first question is what I mentioned ^^ and the second is then how about MT support on other translation platforms? | 15:03 |
| tosky | can't the translation memory be rebuilt from the existing translations? | 15:03 |
| eumel8 | any it's written in Java - so there is no chance to takeover the project here | 15:03 |
| ianychoi | I don't object sticking with Zanata but... for me, I don't have enough time investigating with literature research on translation platforms. | 15:04 |
| ianychoi | I support our positive and right direction, and I want to add that exporting TMs from current translate.o.o would be important. | 15:05 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: I made some tests but I don't have too much experience with TM. What I saw, there are some public platforms like EU governance with public TM files. Don't know how that can help us. | 15:05 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, for example, I can see TM functionality in Zanata, but have not been able to find "how to export TMs" on current translate.o.o | 15:06 |
| tosky | I suspect that generic public TMs can't help too much with the very specialistic language used for our GUIs and documentation | 15:06 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: changing the platform is not super-urgent, but what I've wrote: we should be prepared. And it's a task in Train to think about it. | 15:06 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, I agree with u. And I would like to add: changing from Transifex to Zanata would not be possible without the very kind and enormous help from Andreas, Elizabeth, Carlos, and Daisy, from my understanding, at least. Their work had initiated and had been working for about one year... | 15:08 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, what I think right now is that: Is it possible to officially say from I18n PTL to OpenStack Foundation some messages like that "Zanata open source is not maintained any more, and I18n team needs help to Foundation. Can Foundation embrace Zanata in OpenStack Foundation ecosystem, or would Foundation help to ask Red Hat or IBM about direction on Zanata development and future"? | 15:10 |
| ianychoi | Or discussing with TC | 15:11 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: I know and we can use the knowledge what you collected over the years. Nevertheless there is no future for Zanata if the developement is stopped. | 15:12 |
| jpich | Just a note that there's no point in asking IBM anything at this point as the acquisition isn't finalised. All I can say is that there are people looking to find a new home for it at the moment, but with the end of year holiday period starting it's getting more difficult to reach people :) I'll poke again | 15:13 |
| ianychoi | And.. it would be very great if we find another nice use case on making use of a translation platform for open source development. What I can say from my experience now is that: 1) K8s: Translating .md files on GitHub directly 2) Ubuntu: using Launchpad translation functionality 3) Microsoft: Transifex for products & translating .md files on GitHub for documentation | 15:13 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: I don't see the point how OSF or TC can help for the moment. | 15:13 |
| ianychoi | Such kind of literature search on use cases would be also great to choose a new translation platform. | 15:15 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: I don't need more translation stuff with a permanent lower case of the translation team. Our queue is mega full | 15:16 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, for open source activities what I learned is: slow is better than going faster without open source-wide agreement. | 15:18 |
| ianychoi | I think I18n team can not choose a new translation platform easily within one release cycle. That's my point. | 15:19 |
| eumel8 | jpich: Typical course of an acquisition. Don't do anything for at least a year ;) | 15:19 |
| jpich | eumel8: Not really anyone's decision at this point, from what I understand the governments/legal bodies need to put a stamp on approval on things before it can be official | 15:22 |
| ianychoi | jpich, thanks a lot your mentioning on acquisition.. | 15:22 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: we are talking about April/May 2019. From operations view, which is almost my view, if you haven't updates for your software since over one year, then it's dead. Maybe I come to early with my blueprint and you think we have to start migration next week. | 15:23 |
| jpich | Seems like the Train cycle is for "looking at options," and then the U cycle would be for "starting the migration to one of these options" if Zanata doesn't get any update by that time still | 15:24 |
| jpich | ? | 15:25 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, Are you the same as on jpich's mentioning on timeline? | 15:26 |
| jpich | I should have phrased it as more of a question :) | 15:26 |
| eumel8 | yes, jpich is right | 15:28 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, ah then that should be fine what I interpreted from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n/+spec/renew-translation-platform were that I18n should change translation platform within T cycle.. | 15:29 |
| ianychoi | Let's try to more discuss which translation platform for OpenStack world would be the best... | 15:30 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: yes, and I want to know which options we have. | 15:31 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, jpich: Thanks a lot for your idea and clarification. I want to support and help such idea but I am not sure how much I can help. I really don't have enough time. | 15:31 |
| jpich | No worries, ianychoi | 15:31 |
| eumel8 | No worries, ianychoi | 15:32 |
| ianychoi | jpich, eumel8: Thank u again, friends :) | 15:32 |
| jpich | At this point if coming across existing translation platforms, just adding them to the list to be considered for the research next cycle would be good. And if we come across reports from other open-source projects who did comparisons etc | 15:32 |
| jpich | We ran over time a bit... :-) | 15:33 |
| ianychoi | jpich, eumel8: How about writing a white paper from I18n team, a title, for example, "Internationalizing Open Sources" like https://www.openstack.org/containers/leveraging-containers-and-openstack/ ? | 15:34 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: for that reason I don't want takeover the Zanata project into OpenStack community. You know it best if you looking for a new job like formely Zanata guys you don't have time to maintain an open source project | 15:34 |
| eumel8 | jpich: I'm on holiday, I'm fine with the time ;) | 15:34 |
| ianychoi | If we do literature research and summarize our contribution, then I think we can wrap up as one white paper on translation world. | 15:35 |
| ianychoi | It would be a great impact on all open source world | 15:35 |
| jpich | ianychoi: I suspect we'll look at the options that are best for our particular community's needs rather than such a massive review... | 15:35 |
| jpich | eumel8: Nice! :) | 15:35 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: good idea | 15:36 |
| ianychoi | jpich, aha review.. good point | 15:36 |
| ianychoi | Or like https://www.openstack.org/edge-computing/cloud-edge-computing-beyond-the-data-center | 15:36 |
| Linkid | ianychoi: I would be very interested to this sort of paper :) | 15:36 |
| eumel8 | looks like a booksprint in the spring of 2019 | 15:37 |
| ianychoi | +1 :) | 15:37 |
| Linkid | because I looked for one tool for another open source project some months ago, but I didn't have a server to install something :/ | 15:37 |
| eumel8 | want to checkout sightseeings of Seoul | 15:37 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, plz come to Seoul haha :) | 15:38 |
| eumel8 | ianychoi: currently planing my trip to Denver. With some extra routes | 15:38 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, LoL | 15:39 |
| eumel8 | noticed, there are a lots of water between Seoul and Denver | 15:39 |
| eumel8 | Linkid: what you want to test? | 15:40 |
| ianychoi | I need to leave... | 15:40 |
| ianychoi | See u next time all :) | 15:40 |
| eumel8 | I need to close the meeting | 15:40 |
| eumel8 | cu ianychoi | 15:40 |
| ianychoi | eumel8, cu :) | 15:40 |
| ianychoi | jpich, Linkid see u :) | 15:41 |
| jpich | bye! | 15:41 |
| eumel8 | #endmeeting | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack goes multilingual! | I18n & L10 channel" | 15:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 22 15:41:22 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_office_hour/2018/openstack_i18n_office_hour.2018-11-22-14.00.html | 15:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_office_hour/2018/openstack_i18n_office_hour.2018-11-22-14.00.txt | 15:41 |
| Linkid | eumel8: I was looking for a small and usable web based tool | 15:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_office_hour/2018/openstack_i18n_office_hour.2018-11-22-14.00.log.html | 15:41 |
| eumel8 | ah, now we have time *g* | 15:41 |
| Linkid | and I found pootle and weblate too | 15:42 |
| Linkid | ah, it's over :x | 15:42 |
| tosky | Linkid: they are both listed in the blueprint already | 15:42 |
| jpich | I think they're on the list in the blueprint :) | 15:43 |
| Linkid | yep | 15:43 |
| eumel8 | Linkid yes, Pootle needs some extra work from CLI. has not so much feature like Zanata | 15:43 |
| Linkid | and in the past, I used Launchpad | 15:45 |
| eumel8 | and it's written in python (Django) so would be maintainable by OpenStack Community | 15:45 |
| Linkid | yep, this is why I found it ^^ | 15:45 |
| jpich | Pontoon seems to be mostly Python as well, and I see a bunch of django requirements | 15:46 |
| Linkid | Pootle is a big project, and it lives with others, btw | 15:47 |
| tosky | weblate is python too, for the record | 15:47 |
| Linkid | yep, Pontoon seems to be based on django | 15:47 |
| Linkid | and pontoon is a mozilla project :) | 15:49 |
| eumel8 | translation server is good, if you're working in teams parallel on the same targets, so the platform taking care on merges | 15:55 |
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