| jeblair | mordred, clarkb: if we used afs for ubuntu mirrors, we could transactionally update them (vos release) | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| jeblair | davidlenwell: i think with about 2 hours of work, we can fix up our jenkins config to safely run refstack jobs | 00:08 |
| jeblair | (i plan on doing that soon) | 00:09 |
| mordred | jeblair: zomg | 00:11 |
| cody-somerville | jeblair: I'm curious. Most apt mirroring tools update the mirror "transactionally". What would using afs do differently? | 00:12 |
| * JayF would not wish AFS administration upon anyone | 00:13 | |
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| jeblair | cody-somerville: oh, the other day lots of people in here running ubuntu mirrors said that the index skew problem is unavoidable | 00:13 |
| cody-somerville | To do mirroring right, you download the additional packages you need then replace index files then delete files no longer needed | 00:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Conrad proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: support execute-on for postbuildscript https://review.openstack.org/90507 | 00:15 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2014-04-23.log | 00:18 |
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| jeblair | cody-somerville: starting somewhere around 2014-04-23T20:38:59 | 00:18 |
| jeblair | JayF: afs admin is much nicer than, say, puppet admin :) | 00:19 |
| jeblair | (especially when your disks are virtual, then it starts to get really cool) | 00:19 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: there is no way to do it correctly without getting pushes from where you sync from | 00:21 |
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| clarkb | cody-somerville: because you could get all of the files, then go grab the index but there is a race there if not processing pushes | 00:21 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ afs + cinder == teh ossum | 00:22 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: How? As long as you don't delete files still referenced by index, you're fine. | 00:22 |
| JayF | jeblair: I found AFS is very capable, but learning to administer AFS requires you to throw away 99% of your usual knowledge about filesystems :) | 00:22 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: the problem is the index refers to files you didn't grab | 00:22 |
| * JayF did a multi-region AFS for homedir syncing | 00:22 | |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: which is why you need pushes | 00:22 |
| mordred | JayF: yup. that's why if the AFS was just, you know, a feature of the cloud ... | 00:23 |
| JayF | Oh, you mean ZFS /s | 00:23 |
| mordred | hahahaahahahahahaha | 00:23 |
| mordred | no | 00:23 |
| cody-somerville | So the index doesn't refer to files you didn't grab. Soyuz and dak update the archive "transactionally" as well. It doesn't write out updated indexes until files are in place. | 00:23 |
| mordred | I mean AFS | 00:23 |
| JayF | /s is pretty universally understood, right :) I was kidding | 00:24 |
| mordred | I have learned something new today | 00:24 |
| mordred | what the hekc is /s? | 00:24 |
| cody-somerville | Additionally, even if that /was/ the case. You could use reprepro which does the mirroring more intelligently than just rsync. | 00:24 |
| JayF | closing tag for sarcasm | 00:24 |
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| clarkb | cody-somerville: hold on /me finds the document | 00:24 |
| mordred | JayF: ooh. me likely | 00:25 |
| JayF | mordred: if you care about AFS, I should show you my awesome AFS+AD config I had setup. We had a fleet of Linux boxes authing to AD with pam_krb5 for auth and pam_winbind for user data, then we also converted the krb5 ticket to a krb4 ticket suitable for AFS | 00:25 |
| JayF | it's probably the most awesome thing I've ever built, and the only mistake I made was deciding to build it :) | 00:25 |
| cody-somerville | Now, you can run into problems if say one of the nodes in the round-robin serving the repo you're mirroring falls out of sync. | 00:25 |
| cody-somerville | And squid proxies can really make apt unhappy. | 00:26 |
| mordred | JayF: haha. oh - did you know afs can do krb5 now? | 00:26 |
| JayF | mordred: something like this --> http://j.oldos.org/ad+kerb.txt | 00:26 |
| JayF | mordred: oh, I have no idea. This was in a previous Rackspace life, and I haven't logged into that environment in almost 2 years. | 00:26 |
| clarkb | http://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror#how the doc there seemed to indicate that apt mirrors should do 2 stage and handle pushes to remain in sycn | 00:26 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: Yes, you def want to do two stage. That's what I'm referring to by updating transactionally. | 00:27 |
| clarkb | I know | 00:27 |
| cody-somerville | and the second bit is specific to that particular mirroring tool | 00:27 |
| clarkb | but the second bit there about handling pushes is what I am referring to. It says that you must redo the 2 stage sync on one | 00:27 |
| cody-somerville | MUST not ignore pushes while running (for push mirroring). | 00:28 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: right so lets say you aren't push because you aren't official and instead you poll | 00:28 |
| clarkb | if a push would've happened during that time period wouldn't you need to resync? | 00:28 |
| clarkb | polling isn't immune to the thing pushes run into aiui | 00:29 |
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| clarkb | problem is you wouldn't know | 00:29 |
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| mordred | JayF: well, as long time AFS supporters, we've been considering that these new-fangled cloud tools might just give us what we need to manage an AFS without the crazy | 00:30 |
| mordred | JayF: we'll let you know when we start down the road so you can laugh at us | 00:30 |
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| JayF | I don't think I'd find it funny, but I'm generally glad I am not dealing with that sort of stuff anymore | 00:32 |
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| cody-somerville | clarkb: Running rsync twice tends to deal with that satisfactorily. It certainly isn't a problem with Ubuntu as the archive only updates like once an hour or something. | 00:38 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: Using reprepro would avoid problem entirely since it ensures integrity of the archive. | 00:38 |
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| clarkb | if this is so simple then why does every mirror ever not do it right? | 00:39 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: Most mirrors don't have any problems. The important bit is the two-stage sync. | 00:40 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: but there are a lot of buggy mirror scripts out there | 00:40 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: both of our clouds don't do it right | 00:40 |
| mordred | the difference with vos release in AFS is the cross-site atomicity | 00:41 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: they don't do two-stage sync or another problem? | 00:41 |
| mordred | if we have one read-write volume in which we're using reprepro to manage the contents of the archive mirror | 00:41 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: we don't know how they are implemented but they all exhibit problems of that package isn't available have a nice day | 00:41 |
| mordred | and we had, say, 10 read-only volume replicas - say 2 per cloud region | 00:41 |
| mordred | the with vos release, once we're done with the 2-stage process in the read-write volume | 00:42 |
| cody-somerville | clarkb: and local index cache is up to date? | 00:42 |
| clarkb | cody-somerville: yes | 00:42 |
| mordred | we get to release it _everywhere_ simultaneously and atomically | 00:42 |
| mordred | so taht we have consistency across all of our consumers | 00:42 |
| cody-somerville | mordred: I can definitely see the usefulness in that. especially if you have any of it in round robin. | 00:43 |
| mordred | I don't think it's necessarily an either/or - as much as we very well might use both in concert | 00:43 |
| dstufft | ensuring mirror atomicity is a hard problem | 00:44 |
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| mordred | clarkb: zomg zomg. I think I just made a dib of a devstack-gate node | 00:45 |
| clarkb | woot | 00:45 |
| clarkb | dstufft: indeed | 00:46 |
| clarkb | which is why I think I am ok with the current situation | 00:46 |
| dstufft | It gets even harder if you start considering attackers :V | 00:46 |
| clarkb | us trying to fix it is only going to move the pain from our cloud providers to us | 00:46 |
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| cody-somerville | We can definitely do apt mirroring without presenting a broken apt repository. | 00:47 |
| dstufft | So I'm poking at nodepool some more, am I correct in that it's not possible to use nodepool without Jenkins or gearman atm? | 00:48 |
| clarkb | dstufft: gearman isn't required but jenkins is | 00:48 |
| dstufft | hmm | 00:48 |
| mordred | we're planning on making that not be a requirement though | 00:48 |
| clarkb | dstufft: if gearman is present nodepool will use that to handle load | 00:48 |
| dstufft | guess I'll go poke at jenkins to see how much I hate it | 00:49 |
| clarkb | er s/handle load/determine current load and spin up machines for that/ | 00:49 |
| mordred | dstufft: well, we're actively working on replacing jenkins | 00:49 |
| mordred | so don't, you know, poke _too_ hard | 00:49 |
| dstufft | mordred: will nodepool be pluggable in to test runner after that? | 00:49 |
| dstufft | clarkb: so if I just wnat a static pool size I don't need gearman? | 00:49 |
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| clarkb | dstufft: correct | 00:50 |
| dstufft | cool | 00:50 |
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| mordred | dstufft: if you just want a static pool size, you could probably currently use fake jenkins and fake gearman in the tree | 00:50 |
| mordred | dstufft: and then just run a quick script to delete nodes when you feel like it | 00:50 |
| clarkb | you don't even need fake gearman | 00:50 |
| clarkb | gearman is completely optional | 00:50 |
| mordred | and nodepool will happily replace them for you | 00:50 |
| mordred | dstufft: when you said "pluggable in to test runner" earlier ... what did you mean? | 00:51 |
| dstufft | mordred: I'll poke some then. I'm trying to figure out what pieces I want to reuse and what pieces I want to invent for a CI | 00:51 |
| dstufft | mordred: I said that backwords I think, I mean any random thing will be able to reach out and tell nodepool a node is "finished" or whatever | 00:51 |
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| dstufft | Like I won't have to use whatever Openstack replaces jenkins with | 00:52 |
| mordred | dstufft: something like that, yeah | 00:52 |
| mordred | although you should use whatever we replace jenkins with - because then you'd hack on it with us and that would be neat :) | 00:52 |
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| dstufft | mordred: that is a distinct possibility yes | 00:56 |
| clarkb | also jhesketh and friends already run zuul with turbohipster | 00:56 |
| dstufft | what is turbohipster | 00:56 |
| clarkb | but not necessarily nodepool | 00:56 |
| clarkb | dstufft: its their jenkins replacement | 00:56 |
| dstufft | I see | 00:56 |
| clarkb | might be worth looking at making nodepool and turbohipster grok each other | 00:56 |
| dstufft | is the openstack repplacement for jenkins an actual thing yet | 00:57 |
| dstufft | or an idea | 00:57 |
| clarkb | I think turbohipster is possibly going to be it | 00:57 |
| mordred | it's half-way in between | 00:57 |
| mordred | it's an idea, and there is a thing, but we haven't stiched the final bits together yet | 00:58 |
| dstufft | mysql ;( | 00:59 |
| clarkb | dstufft: hrm? | 00:59 |
| clarkb | oh ya nodepool | 00:59 |
| dstufft | I guess I can just use a cloud database thing | 00:59 |
| dstufft | and I don't actually have to figure out how to manage a mysql server | 00:59 |
| mordred | dstufft: well, it's sqlalchemy, so you could probably use whatever - it's a pretty simple schema | 01:00 |
| clarkb | you don't really need to manage this one either | 01:00 |
| clarkb | it needed more than sqlite | 01:00 |
| clarkb | but not much more | 01:00 |
| dstufft | maybe i'll poke at it and see if it'll run on Postgresql | 01:00 |
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| davidlenwell | jeblair: thats great news .. | 02:02 |
| davidlenwell | jeblair: sorry for the delayed response.. I'm sick and was napping | 02:03 |
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| jeblair | dstufft: yeah, jenkins should actually already be optional -- create a target but without any 'jenkins' connection bits. currently nodepool gets node complete information from jenkins via zmq; you could run you own zmq server to do that, but that's the bit we want to move to gearman | 14:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Add support for disk-image-builder in nodepool https://review.openstack.org/88479 | 16:05 |
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| mordred | clarkb, jeblair: ^^ that's ready for review now - it works for devstack-gate | 16:12 |
| mordred | I'm going to work on a followup patch that will be more efficient in a few ways | 16:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Marc Abramowitz proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Catch EPIPE exception and return https://review.openstack.org/90552 | 16:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Marc Abramowitz proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Pass argv to main https://review.openstack.org/90542 | 17:26 |
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| mordred | woot! | 18:12 |
| * mordred has diskimage-build handling local caching of the devstack images | 18:12 | |
| mordred | als | 18:12 |
| mordred | sdague, jeblair: there is an IMAGE_URL that's got a variable name in it | 18:13 |
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| mordred | but this means, in genearl, that a local dev cycle on images is getting close to being not totally insane | 18:15 |
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| mordred | next step is to figure out local dev caching of the stuff apt/yum pull down | 18:15 |
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| mordred | 98-source-repositories 389.807 | 18:28 |
| mordred | that's how long it takes to update all of teh git repos with warm cache already on my laptop | 18:29 |
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| boris-42 | mordred lol=) | 18:39 |
| boris-42 | mordred btw historical moment https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89801/ first performance job =) | 18:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Justin Shepherd proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Configuring bundler to use multiple cpus/cores https://review.openstack.org/90563 | 18:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Alex Conrad proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: add support for python builder https://review.openstack.org/90464 | 19:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Conrad proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: add tests for shell builder https://review.openstack.org/90480 | 19:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Optimize the diskimage build with more local cache https://review.openstack.org/90565 | 19:34 |
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| mordred | WOOW | 23:02 |
| mordred | s/W$/T/ | 23:02 |
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| * mordred has just realized that modern debian ships with MATE - so I can run gnome2 without having to run Mint | 23:06 | |
| * mordred is happy - has his clock applet back | 23:07 | |
| mordred | now - all I need is for someone to make me a laptop with a non-chicklet keyboard and my life will be as good as it was 4 years ago ;) | 23:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Marc Abramowitz proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Modularize to enable easier testing https://review.openstack.org/90572 | 23:45 |
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