Tuesday, 2017-07-18

openstackgerritMerged openstack/diskimage-builder master: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/48450300:04
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/openstack-zuul-jobs master: WIP: Validate size of subunit for tox  https://review.openstack.org/48451800:05
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/openstack-zuul-jobs master: Create openstack-py35 job with upper-constraints  https://review.openstack.org/48398700:05
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/diskimage-builder master: opensuse-minimal: install glibc-locale  https://review.openstack.org/47395900:40
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openstackgerritSiyi Luo proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: Enable some off-by-default checks  https://review.openstack.org/48454100:58
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mkostrzewahi. I've been trying to figure out some stuff about zuul launchers. How do they communicate with test nodes? Do test nodes have public IPs or Launchers are inside donated clouds or..?01:08
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fungimkostrzewa: all our nodes have globally routable (either ipv4 or ipv6) ip addresses, and all the zuul launchers have both globally routable ipv4 an ipv6 addresses01:11
mkostrzewaby nodes do you mean actual test nodes?01:11
fungicorrect01:11
mkostrzewahow large is your IP pool for those?01:11
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fungithere isn't just one. we have quota donated from a bunch of different public cloud providers01:12
mkostrzewaI know you use AWS, but what about donated clouds?01:12
fungiwe don't use aws at all, only openstack01:12
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mkostrzewahmm ok. And you have static key pairs for those that you distribute using puppet to all launchers?01:13
fungiyes, and bake the public keys for them into the ~/.ssh/allowed_hosts of the job user on all our images01:14
mkostrzewaok thanks a lot01:15
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fungimy pleasure. we're happy to talk about this stuff, and also have lots of documentation at https://docs.openstack.org/infra/01:16
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Diabelkoyeah, but it is a little bit outdated - we are mostly trying to focus on the Zuul Launchers part01:17
Diabelkoand since Jenkins removal this has changed a little bit01:17
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fungiyeah, the ansible launcher implementation is still considered experimental and is only very minimally documented. it's not a stable interface we're planning to maintain for v3 (there are lots of breaking changes between the ansible-launcher implementation in zuul 2.5 and the coming implementation in v3)01:19
fungizuul 2.x is still intended to support jenkins, we only stopped using it ourselves due to some security concerns with trying to run jenkins in public exposed to the world01:19
fungiso the zuul-launcher implementation was intended as a stop-gap for about a year while we finished zuul v301:20
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mkostrzewahttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/zuul/tree/zuul/launcher/ansiblelaunchserver.py this is the ansible launcher. There's a separate zuul launcher?01:22
fungiwell, the ansible launcher is the launcher implementation in zuul 2.501:22
fungiso same thing, i was just being inconsistent with how i referred to it01:23
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mkostrzewaoh, ok. So in v2.5, zuul-launcher == ansible-launcher? And in v3 you separate these somehow?01:23
fungiin an attempt to disambiguate between launchers in nodepool and zuul, in v3 zuul has "executors" which run ansible to connect to the individual job nodes while nodepool has "launchers" which boot new nodes for zuul to use01:24
mkostrzewaoh ok.01:26
fungimain outward differences between the ansible launcher in zuul 2.5 and executors in zuul v3 is that in v3 they cease carrying a translation layer to interpret jjb configuration and instead expect straight ansible roles/playbooks, plus the mergers are no longer serving git repos over the network and instead the launchers push zuul refs directly onto the filesystems of the job nodes when preparing them01:27
fungifor a particular job build01:27
mkostrzewaNodepool watches and zuul-executor consumes stuff from Gearman queue, right? Executor looks only for node_assign messages at first, which come from nodepool. If node is assigned, it looks for job message. Nodepool puts node_assign into the queue, which just contains IP of testbed VM and its type (say, ubuntu14.04)?01:27
fungiyeah, that's a fair summary for zuul 2.5 ansible launchers01:28
fungiin zuul v3 a lot of the coordination is moving into zookeeper01:29
mkostrzewanode_assign gets moved to zk?01:29
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fungii'm a little fuzzy as to whether that's still gearman or zookeper in zuul v3. i would need to reread the spec and v3 docs. we're only running a development instance of v3 at the moment running some very basic jobs to be able to self-test its own changes and i've not been keeping abreast of the nuances of its architecture like i should01:31
mkostrzewaok. You've helped a lot. thanks!01:32
fungifor a deeper dive into zuul v3 details, you might want the #zuul channel instead01:32
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fungimost of the zuul development discussions go on there these days01:33
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openstackgerritMatt Riedemann proposed openstack-infra/elastic-recheck master: Add query for nova functional swap volume notify bug 1704392  https://review.openstack.org/48454401:44
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openstackbug 1704392 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "TestInstanceNotificationSample.test_volume_swap_server fails with "testtools.matchers._impl.MismatchError: 7 != 6"" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704392 - Assigned to Balazs Gibizer (balazs-gibizer)01:44
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Install ceph-ansible in the undercloud  https://review.openstack.org/47897702:12
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openstackgerritIan Wienand proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: Fix latest-limit command line  https://review.openstack.org/48461003:17
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AJaegerianw: could you put some cleanups of mine on your review queue, please? https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:local_conf and https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:cleanup04:42
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ianwAJaeger: will do :)04:45
AJaegerthanks04:46
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openstackgerritIan Wienand proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: Force install during pip-and-virtualenv  https://review.openstack.org/48462304:55
openstackgerritIan Wienand proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: yum-minimal: pre-install coreutils  https://review.openstack.org/48462404:55
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add tenant column to the buildset reporter table  https://review.openstack.org/48425605:33
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openstackgerritArx Cruz proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Enable tempest in scenario001-multinode job  https://review.openstack.org/48462705:37
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openstackgerritMatthew Thode proposed openstack-infra/glean master: prevent overwrite of gentoo init script  https://review.openstack.org/48463105:54
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prometheanfiredoes glean show up here? or anywhere...?05:54
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clarkbprometheanfire: change was reported about 13 seconds before you joined the channel05:57
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prometheanfirecool05:59
prometheanfirewell, that's it then :D05:59
prometheanfirecommit message is a bit longer than the commit05:59
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Add environment file for multinode tests on RDO Cloud  https://review.openstack.org/48122206:48
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Fix typo in magnum DEVSTACK_LOCAL_CONFIG  https://review.openstack.org/48415607:08
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Use local_conf for keystone, kuryr, lvm  https://review.openstack.org/48415507:11
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Use local_conf for heat and ironic  https://review.openstack.org/48414407:11
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Use local_conf for manial, mogan, monasca*, murano  https://review.openstack.org/48415907:15
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openstackgerritIan Wienand proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: Bump fedora-minimal DIB_RELEASE 26  https://review.openstack.org/48257007:25
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Do not define some non-voting ansible jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48420607:29
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openstackgerritArx Cruz proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Enable tempest in scenario001-multinode job  https://review.openstack.org/48462707:49
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openstackgerritArx Cruz proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Enable tempest in scenario001-multinode job  https://review.openstack.org/48462707:56
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openstackgerritAndreas Jaeger proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Use local_conf for castellan, oaktree, rally, tacker  https://review.openstack.org/48416408:03
AJaegerianw, thanks for review - addressed your comment ^08:03
openstackgerritMarkos Chandras (hwoarang) proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: jenkins: scripts: jenkins-sudo-grep: Drop extension on /var/log/messages  https://review.openstack.org/48466008:04
openstackgerritMarkos Chandras (hwoarang) proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: jenkins: scripts: jenkins-sudo-grep.sh: Fix case for empty OLDLOGFILE  https://review.openstack.org/48466108:04
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openstackgerritAndreas Jaeger proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Remove duplicated job from openstack-ansible  https://review.openstack.org/48466308:08
AJaegerodyssey4me: FYI ^08:08
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prometheanfireianw: thanks for the comments, replied08:14
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chandankumarAJaeger: the tempest plugin sanity ci is timing out08:14
chandankumarAJaeger: how can i increase the timeout for the same08:14
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AJaegerchandankumar: please figure first out why it times out - what has changed?08:16
AJaegerchandankumar: a tox job has a a timeout of 40 mins - I don't understand how your job needs that long...08:17
chandankumarAJaeger: actually it clones all the projects having tempest plugins and then perform sanity on that one by one08:17
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chandankumarAJaeger: may be something wrong in my script08:18
AJaegerchandankumar: yes, please check your script...08:18
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AJaegerchandankumar: the non-tox version run in two minutes - so, something wrong in your script I fear08:20
chandankumarAJaeger: http://logs.openstack.org/58/484358/3/check/gate-tempest-tox-plugin-sanity-check-ubuntu-xenial/b20300a/console.html#_2017-07-17_22_02_37_52794908:21
chandankumaruninstall part for script is not working08:21
AJaegerchandankumar: why do you run subunit.run as part of it? http://logs.openstack.org/66/477366/5/check/gate-tempest-tox-plugin-sanity-check-ubuntu-xenial/628dd3e/console.html#_2017-07-18_04_14_56_67182408:21
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chandankumarAJaeger: actually that part is coming from tempest run -l which list the tests to find dependency mismatch with in the tests08:22
AJaegerchandankumar: and did you do this with the old implementation?08:23
chandankumarAJaeger: old implementation i was using ostestr -l08:24
chandankumartempest run -l is wrapper over it08:24
AJaegerhttp://logs.openstack.org/58/484358/3/check/gate-tempest-tox-plugin-sanity-check-ubuntu-xenial/b20300a/console.html#_2017-07-17_22_02_37_527774 is a bug in your script, two arguments to -e will not work08:24
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chandankumartestr list-tests > ostestr -l > tempest run -l08:24
chandankumarAJaeger: you mean this part https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tools/tempest-plugin-sanity.sh#L99 ?08:25
AJaegerchandankumar: sorry, no time to help further. If it run in 2 mins with the old script and now needs 37 mins, you better review what you chagned.08:26
AJaegerchandankumar: yes, L99 is wrong, don't use '*' there.08:26
AJaegeruse a for loop instead08:26
chandankumarAJaeger: when first we added the script in project config, the script broke when sanity steps fails at any step and exit08:27
chandankumarAJaeger: but we are performing the sanity operaiton on all projects having tempest plugins that's why it is taking time08:28
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Jeffrey4linfra-root seem the kolla images on tarballs.o.o are not totally fixed. .08:55
Jeffrey4lthis link http://tarballs.openstack.org/kolla/images/centos-binary-registry-ocata.tar.gz  still return 403.08:55
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: jenkins: scripts: jenkins-sudo-grep: Drop extension on /var/log/messages  https://review.openstack.org/48466008:56
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Add opensuse 42.3 support to nodepool-dsvm jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48447209:00
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Correct docs publish location for sushy  https://review.openstack.org/48445009:04
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Modify some heat related projects to use standard templates  https://review.openstack.org/48297309:06
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silehtAJaeger, Can you re take a look to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/483258/, I'm not sure I get the issue09:15
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AJaegersileht: commented - please update the commit message. Seems it confused me...09:22
silehtAJaeger, sure09:23
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openstackgerritMehdi Abaakouk (sileht) proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: aodh: remove functional job for master branch  https://review.openstack.org/48325809:24
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silehtAJaeger, done09:25
milanfolks, we have a project gate blocked situation on Ironic inspector; I'd like to ask you to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/483059/ so we can unblock ourselves09:26
openstackgerritRenat Akhmerov proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add a simple version of Mistral HA gate  https://review.openstack.org/48469109:28
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AJaegersileht: thanks09:34
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Add networks to multinode role data  https://review.openstack.org/47935310:49
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openstackgerritRosario Di Somma proposed openstack-infra/shade master: WIP: Don't remove top-container element in the adapter  https://review.openstack.org/48417811:35
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fungiJeffrey4l: not sure what the deal was with permissions on that file. i had previously done a `chmod o+r *.tar.gz` in there (which is what i did just now too, and that file is back to readable again)12:12
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Nisha_dhellmann, Hi. I had one ques regarding release.12:21
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AJaegerNisha_: please use #openstack-release channel to speak to that team12:23
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garykAnyone know how to make sure that the job for updating the requirements is invoked?12:26
garykAJaeger: ^12:26
Nisha_AJaeger, ohk thanks12:26
garykfungi: ^^12:26
fungigaryk: it normally happens every time a new requirement change merges on the corresponding branch of the openstack/requirements repository12:28
garykfungi: the last time this ran on the vmware-nsx lib repo was march 2nd.12:29
garykafter enquiring a while back it was suggest that we do change I0aa7e085c910c189384516dccd0922abef9334fa12:30
garykthat did not do the trick. so not really sure what the missing piece is12:30
garykany idea who can help out here12:30
garykfor example https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/vmware-nsxlib+owner:%22OpenStack+Proposal+Bot+%253Copenstack-infra%2540lists.openstack.org%253E%22 works wells12:30
garykbut https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/vmware-nsx+owner:%22OpenStack+Proposal+Bot+%253Copenstack-infra%2540lists.openstack.org%253E%22 is problematic12:31
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openstackgerritJoshua Hesketh proposed openstack-infra/release-tools master: Fix a few small things with eol_branch  https://review.openstack.org/48473812:33
openstackgerritJoshua Hesketh proposed openstack-infra/release-tools master: Handle unknown projects in eol_branch  https://review.openstack.org/48473912:33
openstackgerritJoshua Hesketh proposed openstack-infra/release-tools master: Add feature to exit on warning in eol_branch  https://review.openstack.org/48474012:33
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: Remove jobs for to-be-retired mitaka repos  https://review.openstack.org/48183112:34
fungigaryk: i think you need to get pyshark into global requirements first? http://logs.openstack.org/e7/e7454fa7184cb15083f6d354955413961f75650e/post/propose-requirements-updates/02833f1/console.html#_2017-07-18_01_43_14_43052312:35
fungilooks like that script doesn't do a very good job with handling requirements that aren't in the global list at all12:36
garykfungi: thanks!!! will take a look12:37
fungior if you don't actually use pyshark, then drop it from your requirements12:37
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garykok, will do. thanks!12:39
fungiany time!12:39
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openstackgerritDmitry Tantsur proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add missing jobs to ironic-python-agent-builder  https://review.openstack.org/48475312:57
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openstackgerritDmitry Tantsur proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add missing jobs to ironic-python-agent-builder  https://review.openstack.org/48475313:04
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openstackgerritDmitry Tantsur proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add missing jobs to ironic-python-agent-builder  https://review.openstack.org/48475313:15
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openstackgerritDmitry Tantsur proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add missing jobs to ironic-python-agent-builder  https://review.openstack.org/48475313:30
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openstackgerritJohn Trowbridge proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: WIP Testing changes required to move 3nodes job to quickstart  https://review.openstack.org/48307713:41
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openstackgerritJeremy Stanley proposed openstack-infra/puppet-ptgbot master: Add a site index  https://review.openstack.org/48479813:47
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Allow promotion featureset024 job to report its status  https://review.openstack.org/48411213:48
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openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Use port-security version of OVB templates  https://review.openstack.org/46074813:55
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Jeffrey4lfungi, yep. it works. thanks a lot.13:56
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fungiany time13:59
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openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: WIP: Add settings for ovb in rdocloud  https://review.openstack.org/48095014:00
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openstackgerritArx Cruz proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Add validate-tempest role in overcloud-validate tag  https://review.openstack.org/48462714:19
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Rework tox -e linters  https://review.openstack.org/48483614:50
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AJaegerproject-config cores, here're a few cleanups for review, please: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484160/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484164/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484205/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484207/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484663/15:02
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openstackgerritDavid Shrewsbury proposed openstack-infra/nodepool feature/zuulv3: Support UUID as builder identifier  https://review.openstack.org/48441415:04
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openstackgerritAndy McCrae proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add "test-results" publisher to OpenStack-Ansible periodic jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48484315:12
odyssey4meI'm still seeing variation for the setuptools version in jobs - is there some sort of date/time when we're sure that we will not be using the new broken one?15:14
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack/diskimage-builder master: Bump fedora-minimal DIB_RELEASE 26  https://review.openstack.org/48257015:14
pabelangerianw: I think ^ is our fix for ssh issues on fedora-2615:15
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fungiodyssey4me: how recently and running on what node type(s)?15:18
fungiif you have a specific example i can see what image it ran on15:18
odyssey4mefungi I've been rechecking this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484284/15:19
odyssey4meboth ubuntu-xenial and centos-7 are giving errors15:19
fungimost recent ubuntu-xenial build is 20 hours old15:20
robcresswello/ Hey folks, so I've been poking at the puppet-openstackci repo (is this the right place to ask?) and I'm getting a bit confused over the nodepool parts. It's looking for a "puppet" element in nodepool.yaml, which as far as I can tell doesn't exist in the project-config example, or upstream. I'm guessing its legacy (?) but I've no idea what it is / was supposed to do.15:20
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fungiodyssey4me: most recent upload of ubuntu-xenial to osic-cloud1-s3700 was 17 hours ago15:22
fungiodyssey4me: so http://logs.openstack.org/84/484284/2/check/gate-openstack-ansible-docs-ubuntu-xenial/f105834/console.html ran on the latest image15:22
odyssey4mefungi the funny thing is that the stable/ocata version of that worked for some tests15:22
odyssey4mesame provider15:22
odyssey4meodd though is that the tests whow differing versions of setuptools15:22
odyssey4me*show15:22
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odyssey4mefungi well, it seems more like the broken version is still there15:25
fungiodyssey4me: is setuptools 36.2.0 the problem version?15:25
odyssey4meyes15:26
odyssey4methe variation in results is due to the differences in how the respective jobs try to downgrade it15:26
odyssey4meit can be upgraded or downgraded on its own (no other deps), but cannot be upgraded or downgraded with other deps15:26
cmurphyrobcresswell: you're right, the puppet element is legacy at this point and its functionality has been replaced by enhancing the other elements in project-config15:27
odyssey4methat's why the tox jobs are consistently failing15:27
cmurphyrobcresswell: are you seeing an error where it's looking for that element?15:27
robcresswellcmurphy: Well, yeah it tells me it cant find the element, thats all. But I wasn't sure how to replace it, since I've no idea what it did :)15:27
odyssey4mefungi definitely still seeing that version in rax-ord, ovh-bhs1, etc15:27
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cmurphyrobcresswell: you can just remove it from your nodepool.yaml and make sure to have an up-to-date checkout of project-config15:28
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robcresswellcmurphy: Gotcha, thanks15:30
fungiodyssey4me: what version of setuptools are you expecting to see instead?15:30
odyssey4mefungi anything that's not blocked in g-r15:32
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fungiodyssey4me: what are you expecting to enforce that?15:32
fungiright now we're just running get-pip.py15:32
odyssey4mefungi well, I would have hoped that the d-i-b process respects the g-r requirements blocks?15:33
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funginope15:33
odyssey4mesigh15:33
odyssey4mehttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/diskimage-builder/tree/diskimage_builder/elements/pip-and-virtualenv/install.d/pip-and-virtualenv-source-install/04-install-pip#n12415:34
fungii thought someone had said a change merged to setuptools and a new release had been pushed to pypi to solve the downgrading breakage15:34
fungiand that we just needed images updated with the latest setuptools version or something15:34
odyssey4menope, unfortunately there's no upstream fix yet15:34
odyssey4methere is a PR, but the fix breaks in tests because this version can't upgrade/downgrade without breaking15:35
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odyssey4meok, I guess we're going to have to figure out a way around this for our builds15:37
odyssey4memeanwhile, I'll also try and see if I can figure out a patch for d-i-b to allow it to respect constraints when prepping an image15:38
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fungidib has integration testing, so you should be able to see if it's working or not, at least15:39
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add more information on variables in jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48453015:52
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openstackgerritAlexander Chadin proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable watcher in watcherclient functional job  https://review.openstack.org/48486515:54
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openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Add sample base job  https://review.openstack.org/48448516:06
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/openstack-zuul-roles master: Remove last remaining roles  https://review.openstack.org/48448716:07
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openstackgerritSpyros Trigazis (strigazi) proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: [magnum] Make swarm-mode job voting  https://review.openstack.org/48385816:11
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openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: WIP: Add settings for ovb in rdocloud  https://review.openstack.org/48095016:14
openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: WIP: Add settings for ovb in rdocloud  https://review.openstack.org/48095016:14
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/puppet-zuul master: Add support for zuul-web and scheduler connections  https://review.openstack.org/48288916:21
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add callback plugin to emit json  https://review.openstack.org/48451516:32
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Only output result details on error  https://review.openstack.org/48451616:34
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AJaegerpabelanger, could you put these cleanups on your review queue, please: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484160/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484164/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484205/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484207/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484663/ ?17:16
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: [magnum] Make swarm-mode job voting  https://review.openstack.org/48385817:17
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openstackgerritJohn L. Villalovos proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add an experimental job to test ironic boot from volume  https://review.openstack.org/48033217:34
alexchadinAJaeger: our python-watcherclient requires tempest to run functional tests and watcher to call API17:35
AJaegeralexchadin: so, will check out of watcher be enough for that?17:35
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openstackgerritJohn L. Villalovos proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add an experimental job to test ironic boot from volume  https://review.openstack.org/48033217:36
AJaegeralexchadin: your commit message is so brief that I cannot judge whether what you do is enough...17:36
alexchadinAJaeger: I think no, we need it to be installed17:36
alexchadinalong with tempest17:36
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AJaegeralexchadin: what about explaining that in the commit message? "Enable" is different for me from "check out and have available"17:36
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alexchadinAJaeger: sure, but I think we need to add something like ENABLED_SERVICES=tempest17:37
alexchadinAJaeger: ENABLED_SERVICES+=,watcher-api,watcher-decision-engine,watcher-applier17:38
alexchadinAJaeger: am I right?17:38
AJaegercheck the log file of a job what is in there already...17:38
openstackgerritJohn L. Villalovos proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add an experimental job to test ironic boot from volume  https://review.openstack.org/48033217:39
AJaegeralexchadin: but yes that should be needed.17:40
openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add job's project as implicit role project  https://review.openstack.org/48272617:41
alexchadinAJaeger: thanks!17:42
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove subunit file size check for tox role  https://review.openstack.org/48451917:44
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Compress testrepository.subunit in fetch-testr-output  https://review.openstack.org/48489617:44
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openstackgerritAlexander Chadin proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable watcher in watcherclient functional job  https://review.openstack.org/48486517:46
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Compress testrepository.subunit in fetch-testr-output  https://review.openstack.org/48489617:53
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Compress testrepository.subunit in fetch-testr-output  https://review.openstack.org/48489618:34
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Write secrets into their own file, not into inventory  https://review.openstack.org/47939018:34
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openstackgerritMonty Taylor proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add unittest for secrets data  https://review.openstack.org/48491118:42
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove check_sudo_usage logic from tox  https://review.openstack.org/48491618:47
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fungihah, unforeseen upshot of having mail aliases configured on lists.o.o... it will accept e-mail from the internet to any of them and forward accordingly18:50
funginoticing an uptick in spam to security@l.o.o today, which is aliased to root@l.o.o which sends to our sysadmins18:51
fungii wonder if we shouldn't make some exceptions when it comes to those servers of ours which have to accept e-mail from the internet at large18:51
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fungimaybe make those aliases only accept e-mail injected from localhost or something18:52
inc0sooo guys I'm testing pushing mechanism now. What will get me node with secrets faster? Waiting for Zuul v3 or old-style secure node?18:54
inc0I'm getting questions about dockerhub images few times a week;)18:55
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pabelangerwe still need to approve our infra-spec and decide18:57
pabelangerbut right now a lot of us are head down on zuulv318:57
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491718:58
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fungiit's that (weekly infra team meeting) time again! find us in #openstack-meeting for the next hour19:00
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ihrachysclarkb, there is a email thread in -dev about switching grenade in integrated gate to multinode19:02
ianwpabelanger: i think it might be more than that, because i couldn't log in on the console either19:02
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ihrachysclarkb, I was thinking if there are any issues with it19:02
ihrachysfrom infra side19:02
ihrachyson one hand, it reduces number of jobs in some repos like neutron19:03
ihrachyson another hand, it obviously bumps node num requirement for the job x219:03
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ihrachyscan someone from infra maybe chime in?19:03
ihrachysthe thread is "Proposal to change integrated neutron grenade gate job to multi-node"19:04
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pabelangerianw: agree, that was my 10min poke at it19:05
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491719:13
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openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Add settings for OVB in RDO Cloud  https://review.openstack.org/48095019:14
openstackgerritRonelle Landy proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Add settings for OVB in RDO Cloud  https://review.openstack.org/48095019:14
openstackgerritMonty Taylor proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add unittest for secrets data  https://review.openstack.org/48491119:15
openstackgerritMonty Taylor proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Fail early if people attempt to add zuul vars or secrets  https://review.openstack.org/48400019:15
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openstackgerritDean Troyer proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Re-enable Volume API v1  https://review.openstack.org/48492119:22
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491719:32
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491719:44
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491719:56
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cmurphyhi infra team, i have some review requests20:01
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cmurphybeaker fixes that got missed https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:%22%255Eopenstack-infra/.*%2524%22+topic:fix-beaker20:02
cmurphybeaker refactors that will hopefully make reviewing puppet stuff easier https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:refactor-infra-beaker20:02
cmurphyand then calebb and i have started kicking the tires on puppet 4 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/481955/20:02
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/puppet-infracloud master: Fix beaker on xenial  https://review.openstack.org/47720820:16
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491720:25
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openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add job's project as implicit role project  https://review.openstack.org/48272620:28
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491720:31
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openstackgerritEmilien Macchi proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Add TripleO scenario007  https://review.openstack.org/48494320:33
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/project-config master: validate service types used for documentation jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48071920:33
fungithanks cmurphy and calebb!20:34
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491720:37
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openstackgerritEmilien Macchi proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Increase OVN testing coverage  https://review.openstack.org/47542320:40
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491720:50
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: WIP: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491720:54
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pabelangerstarting to wonder if WIP should be posted into IRC is opentackgerrit finds it in the commit message :)20:55
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pabelangerwill cut down on some spamming from me for sure20:56
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491721:04
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Create tox-pep8 jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48494821:04
openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452221:04
sbezverkpabelanger : do you have a second for qq?21:08
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pabelangersbezverk: sure21:09
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sbezverkpabelanger it is about tarball processing. I pull it with curl and then pipe it to tar.. I see some variations in performance21:10
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sbezverkI was wondering if you could suggest something more efficient21:10
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sbezverkand it is done within a docker container which will act as a registry during the gate job..21:11
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pabelangervariations would be expected, since each cloud has difference specs for VMs21:12
pabelangerwhere are you getting the tarball from?21:12
pabelangertarballs.o.o?21:12
sbezverkpabelanger yep21:12
pabelangersbezverk: are you using the reverse proxy?21:13
pabelangerthat would cache the tarball to the local cloud mirror21:13
openstackgerritMichael Johnson proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Load balancer functional for python-openstacksdk  https://review.openstack.org/48495021:13
pabelangerso, first time slow to warm up the cache, then things after should be better21:14
pabelangersbezverk: see: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/nodepool/scripts/configure_mirror.sh#n10021:14
sbezverkpabelanger not aware, I just curl from tarball21:14
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pabelangersbezverk: ya, we added the reverse proxy to help kolla jobs, so you should be able to also use it21:15
pabelangerthis will help if your job runs in city-cloud for example.  That runs in Europe and tarballs.o.o is in DFW (I think)21:15
sbezverkpabelanger thank you will check how it is used..21:15
pabelangernp21:15
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openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452221:19
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openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Return executor errors to user  https://review.openstack.org/48495321:21
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Ensure we load roles for linting  https://review.openstack.org/48448821:30
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Include ansible-playbook syntax-check for tox pep8  https://review.openstack.org/48449021:30
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Rename pep8 to linters for tox  https://review.openstack.org/48449121:30
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove export commands from tox based roles  https://review.openstack.org/48393621:36
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove subunit file size check for tox role  https://review.openstack.org/48451921:36
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove check_sudo_usage logic from tox  https://review.openstack.org/48491621:36
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491721:36
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Create tox-pep8 jobs  https://review.openstack.org/48494821:36
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Compress testrepository.subunit in fetch-testr-output  https://review.openstack.org/48489621:36
tonybHow much (if any) control do I have on where docs for a (currently non-existent) get published?21:36
tonybI want to create a repo openatack/stable-tools and have the docs from that get published at docs.o.o/stable-branch ... is that possible?21:37
openstackgerritBoris Pavlovic proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Fix Rally DSVM Designate job  https://review.openstack.org/48495421:37
tonybor would it just be easier if I used 2 repos, one for tools and one for docs?21:37
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openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452221:43
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mtreinishtonyb: I don't think that should be too difficult. You could probably make a separate publisher job, or maybe play games with the templating to make sure the output dir is what you want21:43
* mtreinish looks at project config21:43
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sbezverkpabelanger :  NODEPOOL_TARBALLS_PROXY seems to be empty, I thought that it would be setup depending on location where the job runs, am I missing something?21:48
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mtreinishtonyb: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/jenkins/jobs/openstack-publish-jobs.yaml#n22 is the publish job now21:49
mtreinishmaybe just overloading name to be stable-branch would just work21:49
mtreinishotherwise I think you'll probably have to make a separate definition21:49
openstackgerritEmilien Macchi proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Create tripleo-upgrade project  https://review.openstack.org/45976221:49
EmilienMweshay: ^ fyi21:49
tonybmtreinish: Thanks21:50
pabelangersbezverk: do you have a log?21:50
sbezverkpabelanger : the job is still running, but I echo  $NODEPOOL_TARBALLS_PROXY and it comes back empty21:51
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491721:53
pabelangersbezverk: did our source the right file?21:54
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sbezverkpabelanger : I did not, I thought it would be a part of gate job instantiation..21:54
pabelangersbezverk: no, need to manually source it21:55
sbezverkpabelanger ok, did not know that.. what is the location for that file I need to source?21:56
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pabelangersbezverk: /etc/ci/mirror_info.sh21:57
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sbezverkpabelanger : cool, thanks a lot.21:58
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pabelangernp21:59
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sbezverkpabelanger : do you think something like that should do the job? http://paste.openstack.org/show/615785/22:04
openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Remove ansible-role from implied role names  https://review.openstack.org/48496222:04
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pabelangersbezverk: why sudo?22:10
pabelangeryou shouldn't need that22:10
pabelangerbut everything else should be okay22:10
clarkboverall I think we relieve pressure on node quota and log server disk usage because we run both jobs everywhere and this eould switch to just one job22:10
sbezverkpabelanger : I put it just in case ;) will remove it22:10
clarkbihrachys: fungi ^22:10
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Ansiblify pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491722:10
pabelangersbezverk: ya, removal should be fine22:11
fungisbezverk: in fact, sudo will _break_ that22:11
fungiso you definitely don't want it22:11
sbezverkfungi: got it.. it will setup env for root and not for current user22:12
fungiclarkb: yeah, if we're running both everywhere and not only the single-node version in lots of cases, i agree22:12
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Return executor errors to user  https://review.openstack.org/48495322:15
openstackgerritGiulio Fidente proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Create a loop device in multinode subnodes  https://review.openstack.org/48496322:15
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openstackgerritGiulio Fidente proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: Create a loop device in multinode subnodes  https://review.openstack.org/48496322:20
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portdirecthey - is si t possible to get nodes with some sort of attached storage?22:22
portdirectfor OpenStack-Helm it would be really nice to be able to target discs by the attached interface - which we cannot get from a simple loopback dev22:23
fungiportdirect: are there any other kinds of virtual device driver you could load as a kernel module which have the characteristics you're looking for?22:24
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fungiportdirect: also not sure what "interface" you mean but assuming you mean referencing them via /dev/disk/by-path/...?22:26
fungiso pci, usb, scsi, ata, whatever for the interfaces?22:27
bkeroKVM can do other things like sdcard22:27
fungior are you talking about some other kind of interface?22:27
portdirectI'll need to research a bit more22:28
portdirectbut we'd like to target devs using lshw22:28
portdirectfrom the bus info line:22:28
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Remove pip freeze logic  https://review.openstack.org/48491722:28
portdirecthttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lO3sWKmK/22:29
sbezverkpabelanger : it worked 2017-07-18 22:26:53.439756 | Suggested proxy url: http://mirror.mtl01.internap.openstack.org:8080/tarballs22:29
portdirectline 9 in that file22:29
pabelangersbezverk: great22:29
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fungiportdirect: never heard of lshw before, i guess you're talking about https://packages.debian.org/lshw ?22:29
sbezverkpabelanger : but the job went south, I thin this source has reset bunch of variables22:30
sbezverkpabelanger : anyway I will dig deeper, thanks a lot for your help.22:30
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fungiportdirect: yeah, these are virtual machines and we can't guarantee much in the way of consistency with how they're provided. we have some details at https://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/testing.html describing what you can and can't assume about them. i doubt you're going to get very far trying depend on their actual hardware and should instead look into mocking what you want to test22:31
fungiportdirect: put a different way, these systems are intended to host tests you've written but aren't really good for being tested themselves22:32
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jeblairmordred, pabelanger: looks like puppet-zuul web stuff has merged; anything else we need to do, or should we invoke service zuul-web start?22:34
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Add sample base job  https://review.openstack.org/48448522:37
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Require tox_envlist for tox role  https://review.openstack.org/48497522:38
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pabelangerjeblair: ++ to try zuul-web22:38
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mordredjeblair: fire it up!22:44
openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Add job's project as implicit role project  https://review.openstack.org/48272622:44
openstackgerritJames E. Blair proposed openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: Remove ansible-role from implied role names  https://review.openstack.org/48496222:44
jeblairmordred, pabelanger: ack.  doing so now.22:44
jeblairShrews: ^22:44
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pabelangerexciting22:46
inc0hey, fyi, I wrote first stab at pushing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/484961/22:46
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/puppet-zuul master: Clean up zuul-scheduler init script  https://review.openstack.org/47041422:46
jeblairpabelanger, Shrews, mordred: well, maybe after https://review.openstack.org/482926 lands22:47
jeblairi restarted zuulv322:51
openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452222:53
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/system-config master: Run zuul-web on zuulv3.o.o  https://review.openstack.org/48292622:55
openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Require tox_envlist for tox role  https://review.openstack.org/48497522:55
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openstackgerritPaul Belanger proposed openstack-infra/zuul-jobs master: Require tox_envlist for tox role  https://review.openstack.org/48497523:06
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openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452223:11
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DiabelkoQ: trying to avoid using public IPs, I came up with an idea with hosting zuul launcher on cloud it will be running jobs on23:13
Diabelkois there any way to associate nodepool and zuul launcher with particular cloud?23:14
sbezverkpabelanger is it normal that proxy urls are not accessible from outside? example I cannot connect there with my browser to check if the image is actually there23:14
pabelangersbezverk: which mirror are you trying to connect to23:15
pabelangerit should be open to public23:15
pabelangerI can check apache logs23:15
sbezverkhere is the url: http://mirror.dfw.rax.openstack.org:8080/tarballs23:15
Diabelkoadd / at the end23:16
Diabelkoyou're welcome ;P23:16
sbezverkDiabelko indeed thank you23:17
Diabelkonp23:17
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/zuul feature/zuulv3: github: prevent getRepoPermission to raise AttributeError  https://review.openstack.org/47536823:18
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jeblairDiabelko: in zuulv2, i don't think the zuul-launcher needs a public ip, however, the zuul-merger does.23:23
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jeblairDiabelko: in zuulv3, none of the zuul or nodepool components need public ips (except for however you serve your status page, but even that can be reverse proxied or similar)23:24
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Diabelkoso how does zuul-launcher (or equivalent) executes ansible on workers?23:32
Diabelkos/executes/execute/g23:32
Diabelkomy understanding of current system was that it actually needs public ip (v4 or v6) for the playbook23:32
Diabelko(and IP is provided by nodepool)23:33
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Diabelkozuul-launcher itself doesn't, but worker VMs do23:34
Diabelkoto clarify what I had in my mind23:34
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DiabelkoI'm trying to avoid scenario when worker (VM spawned by nodepool) needs public IP23:35
Diabelkothat's why I asked if there's a way to associate nodepool <-> zuul-launcher combo to particular cloud23:35
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jeblairDiabelko: ah, i misunderstood.  are you using the zuul v2.5 ansible launcher?23:36
Diabelkoyes23:36
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jeblairDiabelko: you know it's super secret undocumented unsupported with no upgrade path, right? :)23:37
Diabelkoyes^223:37
jeblairok cool :)23:37
Diabelkobut if zuulv3 solves that issue for me, I'll be happy to switch over23:37
jeblairDiabelko: you have more than one cloud?23:37
Diabelkoyes23:37
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Diabelkolet's say, I want to be able to run ubuntu-precise jobs on one cloud and redhat70 on the 2nd23:38
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DiabelkoI'm trying to find a way (if there's any) to not need public IPs for workers ;)23:39
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Diabelkoand honestly, I'd like to avoid hacking my way using some VPN ;)23:39
jeblairthinking23:39
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jeblairDiabelko: the problem i don't think we can overcome is that nodepool assigns nodes to a single pool for zuul23:41
jeblairDiabelko: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/zuul/tree/zuul/launcher/ansiblelaunchserver.py#n31823:41
Diabelkoonly idea I had was to report different capabilities and have some prefix predefined for the job23:41
Diabelkobut that would mean I need to duplicate them23:41
jeblairif it weren't for that, i'd say you could run two nodepool instances, and configure two ansible launchers with different node assignment functions there.23:42
jeblairDiabelko: yeah, that approach would work, if you give your two zuul launchers different job sets.23:42
Diabelkoand what about nodepool then? two nodepools would race for the node creation job23:42
jeblairDiabelko: er, well, actually, i think you'd still run into the problem with node assignment.23:43
Diabelkoyes, this23:43
DiabelkoxD23:43
jeblairDiabelko: i think this is going to be really hard in zuulv2.23:43
Diabelkoand what about zuul v3 then? :D23:44
jeblairDiabelko: we're not really at the point where we would suggest folks run zuulv3 yet (after all, we're not running it in production for openstack)23:44
jeblairDiabelko: most of the actual code is there, but documentation and deployment aren't where we would like, so it's not a good experience for folks who aren't invested in contributing to it right now.23:45
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Diabelkoand let's say, I'm willing to code that for zuulv3, is this something that would align with general idea for the pipeline?23:45
jeblairDiabelko: having said that, you're running the super secret ansible launcher anyway, so, maybe you have the appetite for this.  :)23:45
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openstackgerritGabriele Cerami proposed openstack-infra/tripleo-ci master: WIP: containers periodic test  https://review.openstack.org/47574723:46
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jeblairDiabelko: let me think for a minute about how this could work with zuulv323:47
Diabelkosure, thx23:48
fungijeblair: there's apparently an increasingly unbearable flood of spam to openstack-owner@l.o.o, do you think it would make sense to move the system_aliases router before mailman_router and then temporarily deliver openstack-owner to :blackhole: in the aliases file, or is there a cleaner solution?23:50
jeblairDiabelko: okay, i don't think we have a way to do it easily with the existing structure.  but i don't think adding it would be as difficult in v2.  i think you'd need to partition the executors (== zuul v2 ansible launchers) into zones, and have them register their "zuul:execute" gearman function with the zone name, eg "zuul:execute:<zone>".  then in nodepool, add a mapping for the provider (or maybe the pool?) to that zone.  then pass that ...23:51
jeblair... data through to zuul, so that when zuul got a nodeset from nodepool, it knew what zone to run the execute job on.23:51
jeblairDiabelko: i don't know if that made any sense or not.  :)23:51
Diabelkodoes nodepool have any mechanism for "ignoring" job?23:51
openstackgerritAshwin Agate proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: Enable py35 job for monasca-transform  https://review.openstack.org/48452223:52
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fungiseems to be hitting wmf's mailman list owners too https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T17060123:53
openstackgerritMatt Riedemann proposed openstack-infra/elastic-recheck master: Add query for NoneType not iterable placement/scheduler bug 1705141  https://review.openstack.org/48498323:53
openstackbug 1705141 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "select_destinations results in "TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable" randomly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/170514123:53
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jeblairDiabelko: it will only jobs that run on nodes it doesn't know about23:55
jeblairDiabelko: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/200112523:55
Diabelkomhm23:56
jeblairfungi: that seems reasonable23:57
openstackgerritJulien Danjou proposed openstack-infra/project-config master: tooz: blacklist py35-etcd3* on Ocata  https://review.openstack.org/48498423:57
fungijeblair: thanks for confirming. i'll try it real quick in emergency disable and then get a patch up for puppet-exim's config template to adjust the ordering23:58
jeblairfungi: yeah.  i think i'd prefer that ordering regardless.  i assume we just didn't think it through originally.23:58
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fungiright, with the mailman router first we have few options to control delivery to those suffixes without adding another router to preempt it23:59

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