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| openstackgerrit | Brad Topol proposed openstack/pycadf: Add unit tests to increase coverage of cadftype https://review.openstack.org/172694 | 04:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/keystone: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/172624 | 06:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rodrigo Duarte proposed openstack/keystone: Fix signed_saml2_assertion.xml tests fixture https://review.openstack.org/172535 | 14:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Rodrigo Duarte proposed openstack/keystone: Add openstack_project_domain to assertion https://review.openstack.org/172536 | 14:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Rodrigo Duarte proposed openstack/keystone: Refactor _create_attribute_statement IdP method https://review.openstack.org/172647 | 14:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Rodrigo Duarte proposed openstack/keystone: Add openstack_user_domain to assertion https://review.openstack.org/172562 | 14:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rodrigo Duarte proposed openstack/keystone: Refactor _create_attribute_statement IdP method https://review.openstack.org/172647 | 14:30 |
| mordred | morganfainberg, jamielennox: was there discussion at one point about breaking keystone session out as different from keystoneclient? | 15:02 |
| mordred | it seems that the thing that knows how to auth to keystone, how to deal with auth plugins and get you a properly created requests session is one thing, and that the client lib for operating the keystone service is another, yeah? | 15:03 |
| morganfainberg | mordred: yes | 15:45 |
| morganfainberg | mordred: on the short list of things to do early in Liberty | 15:46 |
| mordred | cool | 15:52 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: I think I will wind up consuming it in shade as soon as it exists | 15:53 |
| morganfainberg | It would be already done but had some hiccups preventing it. | 15:53 |
| mordred | I mean, I consome it via keystoneclient right now | 15:53 |
| mordred | consume | 15:53 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: also - I was just about to rage-code proper image upload support into python-glanceclient | 15:53 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: and I have discovered that it doesn't REALLY support keystone session | 15:54 |
| mordred | as least, if you pass a keystone session into the glanceclient constructor, it doesn't do anything | 15:54 |
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| morganfainberg | Ahah. God that is a sad statement. | 15:56 |
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| morganfainberg | mordred: saw your rant about docs and glance client. | 16:10 |
| morganfainberg | Was not what I expected, but all made sense. | 16:10 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: I'm continuing to rage code ... | 16:13 |
| mordred | I may not fix the keystone session thing fully as patch one | 16:13 |
| morganfainberg | Right. If you submit a fix to glance client make sure to tag me and jamielennox on it. | 16:14 |
| morganfainberg | Or even if it's in shade only | 16:14 |
| * morganfainberg should really see if we can convince every project to let jamielennox be core *shiftyeyes* | 16:17 | |
| morganfainberg | For client-y things. That is *shiftiereyes* | 16:18 |
| mordred | well, at least core on the client libs | 16:18 |
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| mordred | morganfainberg, jamielennox: check out: https://review.openstack.org/172728 and its parent | 17:40 |
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| morganfainberg | mordred, i think that is going to get bound up until glanceclient has a stable/juno branch. the py34 error i haven't looked into | 20:29 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, http://logs.openstack.org/20/172220/2/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-src-python-keystoneclient-juno/0375b61/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2015-04-12_14_36_17_986 still | 20:30 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, https://review.openstack.org/172753 should probably fix this. the issue looks to be 1.1.0.post2 cant be used with <= 1.1.0 | 20:45 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg, mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141994/ is to get glance to use a session. It's proving more tricky than the others though as glance does things completely differently | 21:36 |
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| jamielennox | i have a devstack set up at the moment that has glanceclient with session and nova using the session to download images that i just need to figure out some edge cases | 21:36 |
| jamielennox | after that i think swift is the only one - and i don't know if i can do anything about that | 21:36 |
| notmyname | swift is the only one what? | 21:37 |
| jamielennox | where i have no idea how to make the client use a session | 21:37 |
| jamielennox | that client has been hacked up so many times | 21:38 |
| notmyname | it's old and crusty had has had multiple hip replacements ;-) | 21:38 |
| jamielennox | yep, i was asking about it in paris, and the opinion was to wait for SDK rather than rewrite, but i probably need to tackle it before then | 21:39 |
| notmyname | based on what's happened since paris in swiftclient, I don't have high hopes for working on a unified sdk/cli | 21:39 |
| notmyname | ie nobody has done anything on that | 21:40 |
| jamielennox | i don't think the SDK would ever depend on swiftclient, it's just messy - so you might not see it in swiftclient | 21:41 |
| notmyname | see what? | 21:41 |
| jamielennox | you might not see changes in swiftclient for progress in the SDK | 21:41 |
| notmyname | ah, right. but in paris we talked about scrapping python-swiftclient in favor of the openstack-sdk | 21:42 |
| notmyname | that's what I was commenting on | 21:42 |
| notmyname | oh, in other news, last night I got a keystone v2 auther working in the nim programming language | 21:42 |
| morganfainberg | notmyname, why v2 whyyyyyyy? :P | 21:43 |
| jamielennox | yep, i don't think there is an 'official' stable release for SDK so everything will be waiting for that | 21:43 |
| jamielennox | nim? | 21:43 |
| notmyname | because that's what the 5 service providers I was hitting are using ;-) | 21:43 |
| notmyname | morganfainberg: ^ | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | notmyname, :( | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | notmyname, :( :( :( :( :( :( | 21:43 |
| * morganfainberg wants v2 to die a horrible death never to be seen again | 21:44 | |
| notmyname | yeah, but it takes a year or more to even get an api in use, and expect the life of it to be up to 5 years (or more) | 21:44 |
| notmyname | it's been a really interesting experience so far | 21:44 |
| notmyname | openstack service providers have _terrible_ docs, and it's _hard_ to get started | 21:45 |
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| notmyname | and this is me writing a client for swift! of all the people in the world, I shouldn't be having issues with this | 21:45 |
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| notmyname | there is a derth of info about tenants. what is that. tenant name? or tenant id? what's the url to use? just the domain or with the path too? what's this weird error message I'm getting? how do I even find the auth url to use?! | 21:47 |
| mordred | notmyname: ++ | 21:47 |
| mordred | notmyname: welcome to the world of my hell | 21:47 |
| notmyname | mordred: i don't like it. I'd like to leave now | 21:47 |
| mordred | notmyname: the best part is when you ask openstack devs about things and they tell you about things that none of your service providers provide | 21:47 |
| mordred | notmyname: and ask you how you've deployed your cloud :) | 21:47 |
| notmyname | https://gist.github.com/notmyname/9202ba00f2de13057116 <--- my (scrubbed) nim auther | 21:48 |
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| mordred | jamielennox: as I currently consume python-swiftclient with shade, I would personally love it if python-swiftclient could work with sessions ... I'd be happy to do some hacking in that direction if it would be helpful | 21:48 |
| notmyname | mordred: yay | 21:49 |
| mordred | that said - I've been considering ditching python-*client in shade and just using the keystone session to do rest calls directly | 21:49 |
| mordred | I haven't hit that point of rage yet | 21:49 |
| mordred | but I've been close a couple of times | 21:49 |
| jamielennox | mordred: so my issue with swiftclient is that i'm not sure which is the newest way to do things, everything is a public api, and there are a couple of ways to make each call | 21:49 |
| mordred | yah. also - it's important that swiftclient support not-keystone | 21:50 |
| mordred | as well | 21:50 |
| notmyname | also, while I'm complaining, parsing the sevice catalog is hard and confusing (for my use case today) | 21:50 |
| jamielennox | right, though the auth plugin stuff is designed for non-keystone as well | 21:50 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: not sure I follow. what different ways to do stuff? | 21:50 |
| mordred | jamielennox: yup. I got the ironic folks to use the same input structures for non-keystone | 21:50 |
| notmyname | I'm not trying to excuse or justify swiftclient, just curious | 21:50 |
| mordred | notmyname: there are several service providers who put exxtra stuff in teh catalog too | 21:51 |
| mordred | notmyname: except- they dont' do it consistently even within themselves | 21:51 |
| jamielennox | notmyname: so for every request there is a method on the module and a method in a class | 21:51 |
| mordred | notmyname: rax, for instance, adds a "versionList" entry which gives you the top-level api entrypoint for fining supported versions for a service | 21:52 |
| mordred | notmyname: but only on some of the services | 21:52 |
| jamielennox | and i can't tell if you're supposed to use the class, or the module, or who is supposed to be holding the HTTPClient object | 21:52 |
| notmyname | mordred: ya. and this (in python) is kinda ridiculous https://gist.github.com/notmyname/64eaa387e816151ecfbb to find what you're looking for | 21:52 |
| mordred | notmyname: it's actually more complicated than that | 21:52 |
| mordred | you're lucky | 21:52 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: ah. yes. the Connection class calls the module-level stuff. the Connection class wraps in retries and reuses a socket | 21:52 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: but yeah, I could see how that's confusing to have seemingly two versions of every call | 21:53 |
| notmyname | mordred: yes! I'm saying my use case is simple and even that is hard! | 21:53 |
| mordred | notmyname: yup | 21:53 |
| jamielennox | it's way more complicated than that :( | 21:53 |
| mordred | notmyname: this is why I want to use the keystone session object to do the normal things | 21:53 |
| mordred | notmyname: because it has methods to get urls and stuff directly | 21:54 |
| notmyname | mordred: tell me more about the keystone session object. like jon snow, /me knows nothing | 21:54 |
| mordred | notmyname: keystone session is a keystone-wrapped requests session object | 21:54 |
| mordred | with methods to do things like get service urls from the catalog | 21:54 |
| mordred | it's essentially just the bits you need to get to the base level of doing rest calls for a service | 21:55 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: swiftclient has been neglected. however, I expect (hope?) for that to change for the rest of this year | 21:55 |
| mordred | notmyname: let me find you a couple of links to me using it ... | 21:55 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: and, 100% serious, if you opened a bug to just vent about how horrible it is today, I'd love it. it would be a great starting point | 21:55 |
| jamielennox | lol | 21:55 |
| notmyname | even just one place it's horrible | 21:56 |
| jamielennox | alright, well glanceclient and swiftclient were on my hard list, and i think i've got glance almost figured out | 21:56 |
| mordred | notmyname: here's getting a session: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/shade/tree/shade/__init__.py#n337 | 21:56 |
| mordred | notmyname: ttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/shade/tree/shade/__init__.py#n365 <-- getting the catalog | 21:56 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: so to your earlier question, I got nerd-sniped into figureing out what nim is recently. seems to be a compiled language that actually uses some moderm language constructs. I'm still learning. my current project is writing a simple swift putter script | 21:57 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: http://nim-lang.org | 21:57 |
| mordred | notmyname: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/shade/tree/shade/__init__.py#n663 <-- getting a service endpoint | 21:57 |
| notmyname | after I figure this one out, I'll fall victim to mordred's talk of how awesome rust is and play with it :-) | 21:58 |
| mordred | notmyname: so, specifically: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/shade/tree/shade/__init__.py#n551 gets you the swift endpoint | 21:58 |
| mordred | notmyname: :) | 21:58 |
| jamielennox | notmyname: yep, i gave it a quick google, looks interesting, particularly the part about checking parallel code | 21:58 |
| mordred | notmyname: nim looks nice - biggest downside to it I can see so far is packaging/build tooling being behind go and rust | 21:58 |
| notmyname | mordred: perhaps, but because it compiles to C, I wonder how much can be cribbed from there | 21:59 |
| mordred | of course, taht's a solvable problem :) | 21:59 |
| mordred | notmyname: yah - thing is - C's solution is distros | 21:59 |
| mordred | which is GREAT | 21:59 |
| mordred | except seems to make life harder for devs | 22:00 |
| notmyname | mordred: at somepoint someone will create a "reasonable" build/packaging thing for nim. then there will be 2 standards! | 22:00 |
| mordred | yah | 22:00 |
| notmyname | /troll | 22:00 |
| mordred | :) | 22:00 |
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| mordred | well, I would expect nim to eventually bypass C if the pattern of other similar languages holds | 22:00 |
| mordred | that start compiling to C and eventually stop using it as a middle layer | 22:01 |
| * mordred waves hands wildly | 22:01 | |
| notmyname | jamielennox: any chance you buy in to the os x / ios ecosystem (like I do) | 22:02 |
| jamielennox | notmyname: no | 22:02 |
| notmyname | ok :-) | 22:02 |
| jamielennox | however what's up? | 22:03 |
| notmyname | so I think Apple has (quietly) done something that is actually the totally right way to do "cloud" | 22:03 |
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| jamielennox | notmyname: that would be awesome - cause we're missing something at the moment | 22:03 |
| notmyname | so recently, I noticed I was getting low on drive space on my laptop. then I noticed that I had a relatively _huge_ (~40GB) amount used for photos/videos. stuff from my phone over the years | 22:04 |
| notmyname | so I went through the pain of migrating it to my home file server, realizing that I'd only be able to get it when I'm at home | 22:05 |
| notmyname | but | 22:05 |
| notmyname | like 2 days later apple released a new app called "photos" to replace iphoto | 22:05 |
| notmyname | to the thing with the new app is it's simpler, yes, but it also uploads the entire photo catalog to icloud and makes it available everywhere. even with the option to keep all the full-res originals in the cloud | 22:06 |
| notmyname | point is, now my photos, just like my music and movies, are now using "the cloud" for primary storage | 22:06 |
| notmyname | avaialble everywhere, not abusing drive space on my laptop/phone/etc | 22:06 |
| jamielennox | so not being an ios user i've looked before but never found a photo app that i like | 22:07 |
| notmyname | all completely transparent to the normal user. I'm not the normal user when it comes to cloud storage, so I kinda know what's going on there | 22:07 |
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| notmyname | my point is that the right way to do this aspect of cloud is to make it completely hidden. I don't care about how my storage is done or managed. I just want my photos to be around, not go away, and I'd like to share them with my mom | 22:08 |
| notmyname | (some of them) | 22:08 |
| jamielennox | notmyname: agree, but do you see this as a good example of writing cloud apps, or futher into how we should be using the underlying cloud? | 22:09 |
| notmyname | when I clicked the button about 30 minutes ago to start uploading the data (I'm sure that will take a week or more), it took me to a little screen saying "your library is XX GB. you need at least this amount of storage at this cost. click to accept" | 22:09 |
| notmyname | which I did happily, because it's exactly what I want | 22:09 |
| notmyname | I think it's a good example of how cloud actually gets used | 22:10 |
| mordred | notmyname: so, fwiw, google did that _Sevearl_ years ago | 22:10 |
| mordred | and I was always boggled that apple hadn't done it | 22:10 |
| jamielennox | yea, picasa was good | 22:10 |
| mordred | since apple is usually ahead of the curve | 22:10 |
| notmyname | mordred: difference being now that residential upload speeds make it tractable (albeit slow). a few years ago it would have been even worse | 22:11 |
| mordred | yah | 22:11 |
| jamielennox | the current google photos doesn't seem to want to let me do enough organisation | 22:11 |
| mordred | jamielennox: I agree with that | 22:11 |
| mordred | I have NO options right now for dealing with photos | 22:11 |
| mordred | which is the saddest thing ever | 22:11 |
| jamielennox | i did the trial of smugmug, and i can see it being useful but i never followed through | 22:12 |
| jamielennox | that's the best i've seen so far | 22:12 |
| jamielennox | the android app was pretty terrible | 22:12 |
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| * mordred keeps thinking about writing a swift uploader for his current photo collection | 22:13 | |
| * mordred doesn't do it because he'd still be missing browse/share functionality and really doesn't want to write that too | 22:13 | |
| * mordred would love to pay someone to host his photos for him ... | 22:13 | |
| notmyname | mordred: that's kinda my point | 22:13 |
| notmyname | sometimes I get the feeling that openstack is trying to make consumer apps. when in reality we're making hard drives and cpus. | 22:13 |
| * jamielennox has been thinking about photofs for a while, just a fuse filesystem that shows tags as folders and lets you catagorize how you like | 22:13 | |
| mordred | notmyname: yes. well, I can tell you we _definitely_ aren't making consumer apps | 22:13 |
| mordred | notmyname: I've actually even been tempted to write a picasaweb and/or facebook photos uploader application, bcause the other choices are just so bad | 22:15 |
| jamielennox | the SDK is currently my great hope there, once the primitive commands are done there will hopefully be higher level commands | 22:15 |
| mordred | jamielennox: you know I've been taking the opposite approach, right? starting with the higher level commands and hiding everything about the primitive commands | 22:15 |
| jamielennox | mordred: which is great, but i don't think the SDK would get away with that | 22:16 |
| notmyname | within the openstack world, I'd love to see more of the TC focusing on how projects can be more consumable and the BoD/foundation on how to actually get people to use it as infra for the world | 22:16 |
| jamielennox | mordred: but it's an eye opening experience working with the clients and realizing how hard it is to do basic things | 22:17 |
| notmyname | jamielennox: ++++ | 22:17 |
| mordred | jamielennox: yah. but to notmyname's point, I wish we'd spend more time thinking about end users and less time thinking about SDK organization and perfect code structure | 22:17 |
| notmyname | yes. that | 22:17 |
| mordred | because yeah, the current clients are completely unusable by humans | 22:17 |
| notmyname | well that's a little unfair ;-) | 22:18 |
| jamielennox | i haven't looked in on SDK progress for a while | 22:18 |
| notmyname | (only a little) | 22:18 |
| mordred | notmyname: my favorite is that each library is bonghits in completely different ways - so lessons learned don't apply anywhere | 22:18 |
| notmyname | that seems to be your word lately | 22:19 |
| mordred | jamielennox: I have to admit that I gave up there when I looked at this: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/python-openstacksdk/tree/examples/create.py | 22:20 |
| mordred | jamielennox: which is clearly not an example of something people are intended to consume | 22:20 |
| notmyname | there are so many things wrong there... :-( | 22:21 |
| jamielennox | how,... | 22:21 |
| jamielennox | ok | 22:22 |
| mordred | to be fair: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/python-openstacksdk/tree/examples/jenkins.py is newer than that and actually shows using the library to do something | 22:22 |
| mordred | so I hold out hope | 22:22 |
| jamielennox | but it's still an example importing examples | 22:23 |
| mordred | yah | 22:23 |
| mordred | we should get the sdk consuming os-client-config so that it can stop trying to deal with that problem | 22:24 |
| jamielennox | i can't really use that as an example of how to write my own thing | 22:24 |
| mordred | that would make a large portion of examples/common.py go away | 22:24 |
| mordred | jamielennox: this is why I'm tempted to just start using a keystone session to make rest calls at the moment | 22:24 |
| briancurtin | So much of examples can go away today, we're way behind there (not really engaging the discussion, at dinner killing a minute) | 22:25 |
| notmyname | mordred: so maybe this is part of the problem, but.... | 22:25 |
| jamielennox | mordred: oh, i thought client config could use https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162529/ | 22:25 |
| notmyname | mordred: I'm totally fine with you using rest calls to talk to swift | 22:25 |
| notmyname | briancurtin: do you need an emergency phone call so you can excuse yourself? ;-) | 22:25 |
| mordred | briancurtin: awesome | 22:27 |
| mordred | jamielennox: we should probably connect further on the design of how things hang together | 22:28 |
| mordred | jamielennox: I do currently make a call into keystoneclient to do auth plugin option parsing help and stuff | 22:28 |
| mordred | jamielennox: but I don't really work with oslo.config objects or argparse objects - we do have a "consume an argparse" thing | 22:29 |
| mordred | so I'll poke at your thing there and see if I can either use it directly or make suggestions as to what it's missing if I can't | 22:29 |
| jamielennox | mordred: so that getter we needed for auth_token so it was going to happen anyway, but i figured it would let you do the fallback between option providers you needed | 22:30 |
| jamielennox | like test cli, test env, then test a sequence of files etc | 22:30 |
| jamielennox | i'm not sure we released that version yet either | 22:30 |
| mordred | yah - whereas I have processed all of those things before I get to you | 22:31 |
| jamielennox | sure, it may or may not be useful | 22:32 |
| * mordred may just make an additional getter or keystoneclient that is similar but is for a dict ... | 22:32 | |
| jamielennox | mordred: .load_from_options() ? | 22:33 |
| jamielennox | https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/auth/base.py#L202 | 22:34 |
| * morganfainberg needs to be reminded every now and again how much making presentations sucks. | 22:34 | |
| mordred | jamielennox: I thnik taht assumes that I'm working with oslo.config options at some point | 22:35 |
| notmyname | morganfainberg: how about every 6 months for a summit? ;-) | 22:35 |
| morganfainberg | notmyname, nah, this one happens for be for a meetup on thrusdays | 22:35 |
| jamielennox | mordred: so get_options() returns oslo.config options, initially i didn't but i was told it was dumb to make my own option abstraction format when oslo.config already existed | 22:36 |
| mordred | gotcha | 22:36 |
| mordred | yeah | 22:36 |
| morganfainberg | notmyname, and due to ${reasons} I didn't get it done last week | 22:36 |
| mordred | I'm not touching oslo.config for end-user facing things | 22:36 |
| bknudson | nobody wants to see powerpoint slides. just wing it. | 22:36 |
| mordred | because it's not an end-user facing config format - it's very much a thing that is used across openstack and should never been seen by app users | 22:36 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, someone would kill me, unfortunately | 22:37 |
| jamielennox | mordred: i think the oslo.config Opts are useful enough as a container for data, like they have well defined name, description etc fields | 22:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson "yeah we're not going to do this with slides, we're going to just talk, good luck keeping up" | 22:37 |
| bknudson | put your phones down and pay attention | 22:37 |
| mordred | jamielennox: this is true - and I do consume that in os-client-config | 22:37 |
| mordred | jamielennox: plugin_options = ksc_auth.get_plugin_class( | 22:37 |
| mordred | config['auth_type']).get_options() | 22:37 |
| notmyname | morganfainberg: modify this and make it your only slide: "I'm just made this so I don't get fined" https://sensitivenewworld.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/marshawnlynchquote.png?w=656 | 22:38 |
| morganfainberg | LOL | 22:38 |
| jamielennox | mordred: but i don't use the builtin Opt argparse stuff, that's annoying | 22:38 |
| mordred | jamielennox: me either :) | 22:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Brant Knudson proposed openstack/keystone: Update sample config file https://review.openstack.org/171860 | 22:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Brant Knudson proposed openstack/keystone: Use stevedore https://review.openstack.org/166543 | 22:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Brant Knudson proposed openstack/keystone: Use short names for drivers https://review.openstack.org/166622 | 22:41 |
| jamielennox | ok, this was supposed to be a go to the office day - back later | 22:43 |
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| notmyname | ooooo. /me looks forward to the pbr discussion on the ML that just started | 22:49 |
| notmyname | mordred: ^ | 22:49 |
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| mordred | notmyname: I mostly agree with the sentiment ... | 22:52 |
| mordred | notmyname: however, I think that it misses an important use case | 22:52 |
| mordred | which is that only packaging geeks and hardcore python folks understand the distinction | 22:52 |
| mordred | so - as long as we can do the thing he's talking about in a way that does not cause the majority of our developers to incraese their confusion, awesome | 22:53 |
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