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| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed stackforge/octavia: Octavia Controller specification https://review.openstack.org/136540 | 00:14 |
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| johnsom | sbalukoff: quick question on your comment. What is the common "OpenStack" way to handle version strings? A version.txt in the root director? | 00:54 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: I have no idea. | 00:54 |
| johnsom | hahaha.... It was your idea.... grin | 00:54 |
| sbalukoff | Right, so if I were writing the code and interested in doing it the "OpenStack way," I'd got have a look in a few other projects. | 00:55 |
| johnsom | Proposal? All of the upstream scripts (triple-o, DIB) don't have version options.... | 00:56 |
| sbalukoff | Really? That's terrible! Well, having a version text file is better than putting it directly in the code itself. :P | 00:56 |
| johnsom | I'm just looking to avert a -1 here.... | 00:56 |
| johnsom | Agreed | 00:56 |
| sbalukoff | And it's easily changed if we decide to do it differently in the future. | 00:57 |
| johnsom | Ok, I will look in a few other projects and if I don't find anything, version.txt it is... | 00:58 |
| sbalukoff | Sounds good. | 00:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed stackforge/octavia: Add Amphora base image creation scripts for Octavia https://review.openstack.org/132904 | 01:14 |
| johnsom | There you go... | 01:15 |
| johnsom | sbalukoff: All ready for that +2... grin | 01:15 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, having a look! | 01:16 |
| sbalukoff | Uh-oh... I have a nit. | 01:21 |
| johnsom | Sigh | 01:21 |
| johnsom | Hit me | 01:21 |
| sbalukoff | Nit noted. | 01:21 |
| sbalukoff | Elsewhere in the script you're careful about paths, but not so much with displaying the version.txt | 01:22 |
| sbalukoff | So, it's a pretty minor nit. | 01:22 |
| johnsom | Hmmm, fair. It will be the local directory unless they specify the OCTAVIA_REPO_PATH as, frankly, I have no other point of reference.... | 01:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed stackforge/octavia: Add Amphora base image creation scripts for Octavia https://review.openstack.org/132904 | 01:31 |
| johnsom | sbalukoff: Fixed. +2 away.... | 01:31 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, looking again... | 01:31 |
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| sbalukoff | Boom! | 01:34 |
| johnsom | Awesome! Progress! | 01:34 |
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| BB_ | Hello | 03:18 |
| BB_ | When i create a VIP, see an error | 03:19 |
| BB_ | da5b1e52-658d-4ee4-8d58-1f71cd22177e | http-vip | 192.168.111.112 | HTTP | True | ERROR | | 03:19 |
| BB_ | How do i debug this | 03:19 |
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| dougwig | look in /var/log/neutron/server.log | 05:31 |
| dougwig | or if it's devstack, screen 6 | 05:32 |
| dougwig | sbalukoff: openstack way for version strings is to use pbr and set them in the git tag. | 05:37 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: Ok. | 05:38 |
| sbalukoff | You realize at this time of day when you say 'pbr' I'm thinking of "Pabst Blue Ribbon" | 05:38 |
| sbalukoff | And I don't even drink. | 05:38 |
| dougwig | heh. | 05:38 |
| xgerman_ | don't you do your best work at night -- that explains it | 05:38 |
| dougwig | it's openstack's setup tools wrapper packaging thing. | 05:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Trevor Vardeman proposed stackforge/octavia: Creation of Octavia API Documentation https://review.openstack.org/136499 | 16:40 |
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| johnsom | dougwig: I looked at that, but this code is bash scripts and not python, so I wanted to keep it simple. | 17:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged stackforge/octavia: Add Amphora base image creation scripts for Octavia https://review.openstack.org/132904 | 17:44 |
| dougwig | it's bash, it can do anything. echo 'print "a"' | python | 17:46 |
| dougwig | :) | 17:46 |
| johnsom | It just seemed odd to have a setup.cfg when there is no python code to setup. Stephen wanted a separate version chain than the overall project, so I couldn't just pull the setup.cfg at the top level. | 17:55 |
| sbalukoff | Not necessarily a separate version chain-- I wanted the script to be able to report version information. That may be a separate version chain, or it may just report the version for the overall project. | 17:56 |
| johnsom | You are killing me here.... | 17:56 |
| sbalukoff | That's what I put in my latest comments. | 17:57 |
| sbalukoff | But I could see this set of build scripts evolving at a different rate from the rest of the project, yes. | 17:57 |
| sbalukoff | So having flexibility here is a good thing, IMO. | 17:57 |
| johnsom | What we put in will work and can be changed later is someone cares enough... | 17:57 |
| sbalukoff | Yep. | 17:58 |
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| dougwig | in my projects i put a version.py at the top-level of the module, so it's easy for *everything* to just look there. i wasn't advocating the openstack way, just saying what those projects use. | 18:06 |
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| johnsom | Cool, yeah, I was looking for advice. | 18:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron-lbaas: Initializing alembic for separate chain https://review.openstack.org/140472 | 18:27 |
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| BB_ | i am using neutron-lbaas feature. Would like understand the OF entries. Is there any document on that ? | 19:37 |
| blogan | BB_: OF = openflow? | 19:40 |
| BB_ | blogan: Yes | 19:41 |
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| blogan | BB_: lbaas service doesn't directly deal with that, if it does its abstracted through the neutron core plugin | 19:41 |
| blogan | so I dont know of any documentation, but that doesn't mean there isn't any | 19:41 |
| BB_ | blogan: it is a 3 node setup with 1 controller and 2 compute hosts. | 19:41 |
| BB_ | blogan: I am using HAProxy, you mean to say that HAProxy does not directly install any Openflow entries ? | 19:42 |
| blogan | i mean the neutron-lbaas service just sets up the ports through neutron's core plugin, and starts the haproxy process, it doesn't directly handle openflow entries | 19:43 |
| BB_ | Okay. If i were to check where actual NAT happens, where do i check ? | 19:44 |
| blogan | NAT of the vip? | 19:45 |
| BB_ | yes | 19:45 |
| blogan | so if you look at the host that is running the lbaas agent, it will have network namespaces set up for each vip (which i believe the network namespace has the pool's id) | 19:47 |
| blogan | if you're using the namespace driver, which if you're using haproxy I believe you are | 19:47 |
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| blogan | if you want to get the VIP to have external network access, you'll need to create a floating ip in neutron and point it to the vip port, which the floating ip is NATted to the vip address. How this is done is in the core plugin and I'm not sure the details on that | 19:50 |
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| BB_ | i typed "ip netns | grep lbaas". There are about 5 entries listed | 19:54 |
| BB_ | how do i know which one i am using ? | 19:55 |
| BB_ | and how come there are 5 entries ? | 19:55 |
| blogan | BB_: one for each pool | 19:56 |
| blogan | BB_: I can't remember if it is the pool_id or the vip_id that is used as the name of the namespace | 19:56 |
| BB_ | blogan: I just have one pool but created & deleted pool few times. So, the old one's were not cleared ? | 19:59 |
| blogan | BB_: hmmm if it is prefixed with qlbaas- then possibly | 20:01 |
| BB_ | blogan: looks like it is based on pool_id. | 20:02 |
| blogan | BB_: yeah i was pretty sure it was, but a little doubt crept in | 20:03 |
| BB_ | blogan: i have only one pool but see 5 entries qlbaas. Seems like the old ones are not getting cleared | 20:03 |
| blogan | BB_: looking at the code, it looks like by default it doesn't clean up the namespace | 20:04 |
| BB_ | blogan: i am quite new to openstack, so to lbaas. What file you are looking at ? | 20:06 |
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| BB_ | blogan: Are there any pointers to start looking at the code of lbaas ? | 20:06 |
| blogan | BB_: neutron.services.loadbalancer.drivers.haproxy.namespace_driver | 20:06 |
| blogan | BB_: yeah forget everything you see lol | 20:07 |
| blogan | BB_: just kidding | 20:07 |
| blogan | BB_: we're doing a v2 of lbaas, so the models are going to change | 20:07 |
| blogan | BB_: however, to dive in I'd suggest just learning the entry point of subsequent workflow of requests that come in | 20:08 |
| blogan | BB_: main entry point is the neutron.services.loadbalancer.plugin.py file | 20:08 |
| blogan | thats the entry point lbaas cares about | 20:09 |
| BB_ | blogan: okay. which directory will i find neutron.services.loadbalancer.drives.haproxy ?. I am using mirantis. don't find them /etc/opt /etc/neutron etc | 20:09 |
| blogan | oh i don't know that | 20:10 |
| BB_ | blogan: okay. | 20:10 |
| blogan | different for every distro im sure | 20:10 |
| BB_ | blogan: Let me figure that out. | 20:10 |
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| BB_ | blogan: Thanks. | 20:14 |
| blogan | BB_: np, hopefully that gives you a good starting point | 20:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Trevor Vardeman proposed stackforge/octavia: Nova driver implementation https://review.openstack.org/133108 | 20:46 |
| dougwig | BB_: do this: | 20:47 |
| dougwig | $ python | 20:47 |
| dougwig | import neutron | 20:47 |
| dougwig | print neutron.__file__ | 20:47 |
| dougwig | ^D | 20:47 |
| dougwig | now use that to find the neutron base | 20:47 |
| * blogan claps for dougwig | 20:50 | |
| blogan | dougwig: asked oslo about how to import those, and we should import them bare | 20:50 |
| TrevorV_ | Hey dougwig you got some time on your hands today? | 20:50 |
| TrevorV_ | xgerman, what about you my man? | 20:51 |
| xgerman | I have 9 minutes -- | 20:51 |
| xgerman | what can I do :-) | 20:51 |
| xgerman | I just +2'd your latest patch BTW | 20:51 |
| TrevorV_ | For the nova IMPL? | 20:52 |
| TrevorV_ | Nice | 20:52 |
| dougwig | blogan: heh, i asked at 11am and no one answered. :) | 20:52 |
| dougwig | well then. | 20:52 |
| TrevorV_ | xgerman, thanks man | 20:52 |
| TrevorV_ | ha ha | 20:52 |
| dougwig | TrevorV_: what's up? not a lot of time today, but i can put you on the queue | 20:52 |
| dougwig | blogan: i think i gave you the wrong bp name | 20:52 |
| blogan | :( | 20:53 |
| dougwig | blogan: i did. it's services-split | 20:53 |
| dougwig | sorry. | 20:53 |
| TrevorV_ | dougwig, I was wondering if you could review my nova implementation review, but if you don't have time don't worry about it :) | 20:53 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, around today? | 20:53 |
| dougwig | TrevorV_: what's up with those pep8/unit failures? | 20:54 |
| dougwig | and yes, i can do it later today. | 20:54 |
| blogan | dougwig: well i just changed it within gerrit, hoping it wouldn't restart testing...it did :( | 20:54 |
| dougwig | indeed. but i just got the blueprint email, so it's linked now | 20:54 |
| TrevorV_ | dougwig, Not sure, works on my machine. | 20:55 |
| TrevorV_ | I'll look at their readouts | 20:55 |
| dougwig | they were joking this week that we needed to get shirts, "it works in devstack!" | 20:55 |
| xgerman | I have one from Atlanta | 20:56 |
| TrevorV_ | That's great. | 20:56 |
| TrevorV_ | dougwig, its failing on some crap with import errors... but how can they fail there and not locally? | 20:57 |
| TrevorV_ | Now I'm confused. | 20:58 |
| TrevorV_ | Maybe my tox isn't running everything it should. | 20:58 |
| dougwig | tox -r ? | 21:00 |
| TrevorV_ | I did that, multiple times. | 21:02 |
| TrevorV_ | No problems :( | 21:02 |
| TrevorV_ | dougwig, ^^ | 21:02 |
| TrevorV_ | I'll do it again dougwig just in case | 21:03 |
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| TrevorV_ | Yeah, no problems dougwig | 21:07 |
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| TrevorV_ | I guess I have an extra library or something that is not accessible to jenkins tox? | 21:07 |
| TrevorV_ | dougwig, blogan you guys know what this line SHOULD be since its apparently wrong in the jenkins environment? from octavia.openstack.common import gettextutils as u | 21:13 |
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| LeanReox | hi everyone, im having an issue that the lbaas section on horizon doesnt appear, can anyone land me a hand on this ? | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | i already edited the local_settings.py and enabled enable_lb: True | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | restarted apache | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | and nothing changed | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | is there any known bug about this ? | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | im running Juno | 21:15 |
| LeanReox | of course installed and configure neutron-lbaas-agent on the network node | 21:16 |
| LeanReox | i see the agent running and logging the periodic tasks | 21:16 |
| LeanReox | but ... no section on the dashboard | 21:16 |
| LeanReox | used this guide: http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/install_neutron-lbaas-agent.html | 21:17 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: Are you sure you added the 'lbaas' service plugin in neutron.conf? | 21:18 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: (and restarted the service...?) | 21:18 |
| LeanReox | orion__: on DEFAULT section added service_plugins = router,lbaas | 21:20 |
| LeanReox | on service_providers | 21:20 |
| LeanReox | service_provider=LOADBALANCER:Haproxy:neutron.services.loadbalancer.drivers.haproxy.plugin_driver.HaproxyOnHostPluginDriver:default | 21:20 |
| LeanReox | and restarted | 21:20 |
| LeanReox | on the server.log on neutron | 21:21 |
| LeanReox | im seeing the module lbaas get loaded | 21:21 |
| LeanReox | orion__: 2014-12-11 18:46:19.629 25622 DEBUG neutron.service [-] service_plugins = ['router', 'lbaas'] log_opt_values /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/oslo/config/cfg.py:1992 | 21:21 |
| LeanReox | 2014-12-11 18:46:20.639 25622 INFO neutron.api.extensions [-] Loaded extension: lbaas_agent_scheduler | 21:22 |
| LeanReox | 2014-12-11 18:46:20.647 25622 INFO neutron.api.extensions [-] Loaded extension: lbaas | 21:22 |
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| orion__ | LeanReox: it seems like that should do the trick. i'm using icehouse and that's the process I went through | 21:25 |
| LeanReox | any extra config on horizon than puttin the variable enable_lb: True ? | 21:26 |
| LeanReox | orion__: on the lbaas_agent.ini | 21:27 |
| LeanReox | added : interface_driver = neutron.agent.linux.interface.OVSInterfaceDriver | 21:27 |
| orion__ | are you using devstack | 21:27 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: ^ | 21:27 |
| LeanReox | orion__: no, juno multinode | 21:27 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: enable_lb is the only horizon config change needed that i know of. i don't suppose there's anything interesting in the apache logs? | 21:30 |
| LeanReox | nothing interesting at all orion__ | 21:30 |
| LeanReox | like horizon isnt loading at all | 21:30 |
| LeanReox | the lbaas view | 21:31 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: it's not a browser caching issue or anything right? log off and back in? clear cache and/or check incognito mode? | 21:34 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: what if you try going directly to "{host}/horizon/project/loadbalancers/"? | 21:34 |
| LeanReox | orion__: good one, ill try that last one | 21:35 |
| LeanReox | orion__: i can confirm that accesing the url directly APPEARS OK | 21:36 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: you are looking for "Load Balancers" in Project > Network right? :) | 21:37 |
| LeanReox | hahaha orion__ yes ! :) | 21:39 |
| LeanReox | take a look at the screenshot orion__ http://i57.tinypic.com/296cd5h.png | 21:39 |
| LeanReox | its actually funny with the section expanded not showing the screen that im accesing directly from the url | 21:39 |
| LeanReox | doesnt appear in an incognito section either | 21:41 |
| LeanReox | section = session | 21:41 |
| LeanReox | tried chrome , chromium, firefox, all the same | 21:42 |
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| orion__ | LeanReox: kinda looking like a bug to me. the enable_lb setting you changed was in /etc/openstack-dashboard/local_settings.py right? | 21:45 |
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| LeanReox | right orion__ also looked at the one under /usr/share/openstack-dashboard/local but it was a symlink to the one at /etc/openstack-dashboard | 21:47 |
| LeanReox | maybe il should go and ask at the horizon channel ? | 21:48 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: yeah, i would. your lbaas config seems sane (sane enough anyway to not cause the horizon issue) | 21:50 |
| LeanReox | orion__: thanks a lot for your help | 21:55 |
| LeanReox | working with horizon guys right now | 21:55 |
| orion__ | LeanReox: np - good luck! | 21:55 |
| dougwig | TrevorV: try: "pip install -U hacking" | 21:55 |
| dougwig | you might be downrev | 21:55 |
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| BB__ | i am trying to do a code walk thro', if i am right the LBaaS call's the bin of corresponding driver. Is that right ? | 22:08 |
| BB__ | In my case, have installed haproxy. So the code call's haproxy with necessary configuration, Am i right ? | 22:09 |
| BB__ | blogan: ? | 22:10 |
| blogan | BB_: its renders the haproxy config and writes it to a specific directory and then makes "cli" calls to start haproxy or restart it pointing it the config it wrote | 22:11 |
| blogan | BB__^^ | 22:12 |
| BB__ | blogan: It me, looks like my session has not logged out from freenode | 22:12 |
| BB__ | blogan: Got it. If i am looking features like HA, LBaaS has nothing to do it expect providing necessary config while have to look for support with HAProxy ? | 22:16 |
| blogan | BB__: you mean having HA load balancers? | 22:16 |
| BB__ | blogan: Yes | 22:16 |
| blogan | BB__: yeah that driver doesn't do that | 22:17 |
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| blogan | BB__: however, if you're lookign for an open source driver that will, most of this team is working on doing that with the Octavia project | 22:17 |
| blogan | BB__: it's early in its development and isn't functional yet | 22:18 |
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| dougwig | BB__: if you're looking for a hardware vendor that does HA, we can point you at several. | 22:19 |
| BB__ | doubwig: i am looking for a scale-out LBs using virtual LBs. | 22:22 |
| BB__ | dougwig: i am looking for scale-out LBs using virtual LBs. | 22:23 |
| BB__ | dougwig: So, not looking HW. Do you suggest any other SW based vendor ? | 22:23 |
| blogan | BB__: open source? or do you have a particular vendor in mind? | 22:23 |
| dougwig | octavia is aiming to be the open source version of that. several of the big hardware LB vendors have soft VM solutions as well. | 22:24 |
| blogan | dougwig, xgerman: what was the decision on the version in the octavia API? just show details of the version? | 22:24 |
| blogan | or the versions supported | 22:24 |
| xgerman | there was no decision | 22:26 |
| xgerman | so what I want is with a curl / we get some json showing supported/deprecated versions | 22:26 |
| blogan | xgerman: so this will just be a placeholder until a final decision? | 22:26 |
| xgerman | and it's up to you to name things /v1/ or /v1.0/ or /1/ or /1.0/ | 22:26 |
| xgerman | and it seems we need to make a second bleuprint to support microversions | 22:27 |
| xgerman | I would like to keep the curl / sinc ethat;'s very Restful | 22:27 |
| blogan | probably, which i still need to look at how nova is going ot make everythign an extension | 22:27 |
| blogan | and how they're going to organize the code | 22:27 |
| dougwig | i suggested leaving the version thing to a subsequent patch/debate, so iteration can begin. | 22:27 |
| xgerman | yep, but I think we should have some info of supported verison when you do curl / | 22:28 |
| blogan | well I'm thinking I'll just return a hard coded string for now, and once we decide how to do it then that will be a minor feature iteration | 22:28 |
| xgerman | sounds good | 22:28 |
| xgerman | as long as there is a way to ask for the verison | 22:29 |
| xgerman | (we operator like to be able to do that) | 22:29 |
| blogan | xgerman: btw you were getting an actual response from curling the root? | 22:29 |
| blogan | you operators are so demanding | 22:29 |
| blogan | i hope i never work for one | 22:29 |
| BB__ | dougwig: i don't have any vendors in my mind right now but looking for an opensource version that supports HA | 22:29 |
| xgerman | sorry blogan | 22:29 |
| blogan | lol | 22:29 |
| xgerman | I just need a way to figure out what version we have installed :-) | 22:30 |
| blogan | were you curling http://localhost:9191 when you got that version string print out? | 22:30 |
| xgerman | well, in libra's case I need to curl some <dns>/ | 22:30 |
| blogan | xgerman: oh nvm, you were giving me a libra example | 22:31 |
| xgerman | yep | 22:31 |
| BB__ | dougwig: You can also suggest any vendors too. | 22:31 |
| blogan | okay | 22:31 |
| xgerman | I hope that makes sense | 22:31 |
| xgerman | once we have that I am happy :-) | 22:32 |
| blogan | just added it | 22:36 |
| blogan | but i hope you aren't creating tools that can't change to hit this API that will always require the version structure this returns | 22:37 |
| blogan | BB__: then Octavia will be the solution for you, just not right now :( | 22:37 |
| blogan | BB__: how quickly do you need this? | 22:37 |
| dougwig | BB__: F5, A10, Citrix all have soft vm solutions. (disclaimer: I am from A10) i expect a few others as well. | 22:38 |
| blogan | dougwig: you should have put that in alphabetical order so you always ahve an excuse to put A10 first | 22:39 |
| dougwig | i'm trying super hard to not sound like a dirty vendor pushing wares. this isn't the channel for that. | 22:39 |
| blogan | i need to come up with a product called A00 | 22:39 |
| dougwig | wouldn't just plain 00 be even before that? | 22:39 |
| dougwig | and then you could use "double aught" as your out load name. | 22:40 |
| blogan | depends on the sorter i suppose, seen some put numbers before letters, those thats an exception | 22:40 |
| BB__ | blogan: I am not in a hurry right now. Doing some POC and learning the current stuff. | 22:40 |
| blogan | BB__: well if you'd like to get involved with Octavia and bring in some requirements you need, let us know | 22:41 |
| BB__ | blogan: Sure will do. | 22:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Brandon Logan proposed stackforge/octavia: Implementing simple operator API https://review.openstack.org/121233 | 22:42 |
| blogan | ^^ will fail pep8 but i gotta run so I pusehd it up so I can work on it from home | 22:42 |
| blogan | BB__: okay great, we hang out in here for both neutron-lbaas and octavia | 22:43 |
| BB__ | blogan: Great. Will get in touch once we decide. | 22:44 |
| blogan | gotta run, will bbl | 22:44 |
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| dougwig | do we really want to put *any* version in the initial api commit? shouldn't that wait until a decision is made? stuff that sneaks in tends to stay | 23:01 |
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| xgerman | dougwig - in my view wrong version is better than no verison | 23:21 |
| dougwig | one man's wrong version is another's technical debt that never goes away. i agree there should be a version mechanism before release of 0.5, but this patch is not that. | 23:21 |
| dougwig | i won't lose sleep if you're adamant that it must be included before we can move forward, but i won't say that i agree that doing it wrong is a necessary precursor. :) | 23:22 |
| xgerman | I was really hoping we had an easier time to agree on some approach | 23:26 |
| xgerman | but with everything in flux inside open stack whatever we do might be starting out wrong | 23:26 |
| xgerman | (in flux versionwise) | 23:27 |
| dougwig | i'd like to land blogan's patch before the meetup, so multiple people can start tweaking on it. and versioning seems like a nice conversation to have at the meetup itself. | 23:28 |
| xgerman | ok, I don't think this will preclude us from doing that | 23:30 |
| xgerman | or we just write something ridiculous in it | 23:30 |
| xgerman | to force us to change it :-) | 23:30 |
| xgerman | anyhow, blogan has my +2 | 23:30 |
| xgerman | (as soon as pep8 passes) | 23:30 |
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| dougwig | i'll add mine as well, if he addressed my other issues. | 23:33 |
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| xgerman | ok, so still wotking on that split #2 | 23:42 |
| xgerman | ubuntu@devstack-ge:~/devstack$ neutron service-provider-list | 23:42 |
| xgerman | Not Found (HTTP 404) (Request-ID: req-e93d3bcb-e6a3-4c7e-bdb7-e2e00de940ef) | 23:42 |
| xgerman | ubuntu@devstack-ge:~/devstack$ | 23:42 |
| xgerman | is that what's wrong and it should return an empty list | 23:42 |
| dougwig | do you have any service plugins enabled? and any drivers? | 23:43 |
| xgerman | I don't think so | 23:44 |
| xgerman | core_lugins don't count | 23:44 |
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