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| tommylikehu_ | ping bswartz | 01:45 |
|---|---|---|
| tommylikehu_ | hey I am here | 01:46 |
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| openstackgerrit | Cedric Zhuang proposed openstack/manila: Add "update_access" interface support for VNX. https://review.openstack.org/395404 | 03:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Cao Xuan Hoang proposed openstack/manila-ui: Changed the home-page link https://review.openstack.org/405098 | 04:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/manila: Fix wrong data type in database migration https://review.openstack.org/400310 | 05:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/manila: Add create_share_from_snapshot_support extra spec https://review.openstack.org/356682 | 05:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/manila: Fix wrong data type in database migration https://review.openstack.org/400310 | 05:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/manila: Add create_share_from_snapshot_support extra spec https://review.openstack.org/356682 | 05:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | zhongjun proposed openstack/manila: Add share_type filter support to pool_list https://review.openstack.org/365617 | 06:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Pony Chou proposed openstack/manila: Add QNAP Manila Driver https://review.openstack.org/394703 | 06:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | zhongjun proposed openstack/manila: Add share_type filter support to pool_list https://review.openstack.org/365617 | 08:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 11 https://review.openstack.org/404961 | 08:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 11 https://review.openstack.org/404961 | 08:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 12 https://review.openstack.org/404963 | 08:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 13 https://review.openstack.org/404964 | 08:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 14 https://review.openstack.org/405188 | 08:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | zhongjun proposed openstack/manila: Add share_type filter support to pool_list https://review.openstack.org/365617 | 09:05 |
| openstackgerrit | zhongshengping proposed openstack/puppet-manila: Fix spec test for sync https://review.openstack.org/405204 | 09:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Arne Wiebalck proposed openstack/manila-ui: Add access key column to rules table https://review.openstack.org/393715 | 10:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/manila-specs: Add a spec to fix and improve Access Rules https://review.openstack.org/399049 | 10:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Digvijay Ukirde proposed openstack/manila: Add support for manage/unmanage in GPFS driver https://review.openstack.org/374705 | 11:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [Devstack] Run tempest update in proper time https://review.openstack.org/405383 | 13:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Marc Koderer proposed openstack/manila: Add first unit test for race conditions https://review.openstack.org/401132 | 13:44 |
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| snecklifter | Hello, I'm using tripleo and getting "Error: Duplicate declaration: Package[nfs-utils] is already declared in file" | 13:45 |
| snecklifter | "/etc/puppet/modules/tripleo/manifests/profile/base/cinder/volume/nfs.pp:53" | 13:45 |
| snecklifter | cannot redeclare at /etc/puppet/modules/manila/manifests/backend/netapp.pp:144 | 13:45 |
| snecklifter | any ideas? | 13:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Marc Koderer proposed openstack/manila: Add first unit test for race conditions https://review.openstack.org/401132 | 13:47 |
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| vponomaryov | snecklifter: I guess you shoul dask in "tripleo" channel, not here | 13:50 |
| snecklifter | vponomaryov: never get a response in there, thought I'd try here, thanks anyway | 13:51 |
| vponomaryov | snecklifter: your question is not about manila, so, I very doubt anyone can help you here | 13:51 |
| snecklifter | vponomaryov: I only get the error when I deploy manila but perhaps openstack-puppet will help | 13:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Helen Walsh proposed openstack/manila: VMAX manila plugin - Support for VMAX in Manila https://review.openstack.org/404859 | 14:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/manila: Fix wrong data type in database migration https://review.openstack.org/400310 | 14:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Victoria Martinez de la Cruz proposed openstack/manila: Decouple Manila UI from Manila Devstack plugin https://review.openstack.org/388855 | 15:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Victoria Martinez de la Cruz proposed openstack/manila: Decouple Manila UI from Manila Devstack plugin https://review.openstack.org/388855 | 15:40 |
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| vponomaryov | core-team: need to merge this -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405383/ it is fix for recently broken Scenario CI job | 16:02 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: also need your attention here -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396632/ | 16:03 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: it appears Cinder guys also got problems related to the same change | 16:03 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: so, at first I was wondering if devstack guys were going to fix this | 16:04 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: I am not surprised | 16:04 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: are you kidding? )) | 16:04 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: they broke everybody, they should fix :P | 16:04 |
| gouthamr | vponomaryov ganso: noob q without looking.. hey, does this affect us injecting tempest.conf options? | 16:04 |
| ganso | gouthamr: that is exactly the problem | 16:04 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: it is THE PROBLEM | 16:05 |
| gouthamr | ganso: explains why so many CIs are broken then. | 16:05 |
| vponomaryov | in addition to our attempt to "pin" tempest ) | 16:05 |
| gouthamr | #freetempest | 16:05 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: how about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405446 | 16:07 |
| ganso | gouthamr, markstur: I think we shouldn't workflow https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405383/ yet | 16:08 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: not again, one more false -1 | 16:10 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: it is not replacement for our fix | 16:10 |
| vponomaryov | our fix is to change order | 16:11 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: comment in that one says that it has broken CIs and is attempting to fix | 16:11 |
| vponomaryov | this one is to add more possibilities | 16:11 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: CIs could be broken in lots of ways | 16:11 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: for my CI it seems the merge_config part is the one that is breaking | 16:11 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: so it could address most CI problems | 16:12 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: according to generic driver breakage https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1644523 | 16:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1644523 in Manila "DHSS=False generic driver CI job fails all the time" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Valeriy Ponomaryov (vponomaryov) | 16:20 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: cannot reproduce locally | 16:20 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: everything just works for me | 16:21 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: using latest code | 16:21 |
| vponomaryov | and manila connectivity fix | 16:21 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: maybe similar to ZFS host-assisted migration problem that I wasn't able to get it working in CI but works in lab? | 16:22 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: ? | 16:23 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: the problem is in one/some nova commits that were merged after 24th of November | 16:23 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: and before 30th | 16:24 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: ok | 16:25 |
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| ganso | vponomaryov: well, it shouldn't have worked in lab then | 16:25 |
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| * ganso proposes openstack/manila: Remove driver config docs from devref https://review.openstack.org/405516 | 16:51 | |
| * ganso is wondering why the openstackgerrit did not notify of his patch | 16:51 | |
| bswartz | ganso: why not let the bot announce your patch? | 16:51 |
| ganso | bswartz: it was a couple of minutes ago | 16:52 |
| * bswartz slaps openstackgerrit around a bit with a large trout | 16:52 | |
| ganso | bswartz: and it did not announce anything | 16:52 |
| bswartz | the bot is alive and in the channel | 16:52 |
| ganso | bswartz: how do you know it is alive? did it slap you back? | 16:52 |
| bswartz | ganso: the list of people in channel | 16:53 |
| bswartz | it must be hung | 16:53 |
| ganso | bswartz: I guess it could be frozen or stuck or something | 16:53 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I'm not sure what you're saying | 16:54 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: the bugs continues to reproduce in the gate but not locally? | 16:54 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: right | 16:54 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: what could explain that? | 16:54 |
| vponomaryov | difference in setup | 16:55 |
| vponomaryov | required versions of some system packages, etc | 16:55 |
| vponomaryov | moreover, look here -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404963/ | 16:57 |
| vponomaryov | it passed with PS4 on first jenkins run | 16:57 |
| vponomaryov | and failed on second | 16:57 |
| vponomaryov | so, it is some intersection of different things that are not determined yet | 16:58 |
| bswartz | oh not not another nondeterministic bug | 16:58 |
| bswartz | >_< | 16:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 11 https://review.openstack.org/404961 | 17:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 15 https://review.openstack.org/405543 | 17:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/manila: LOG marker mismatch in the code https://review.openstack.org/404570 | 17:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [DNM] test 9 https://review.openstack.org/404757 | 17:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [Devstack] Fix DHSS=False setup for Generic driver https://review.openstack.org/403651 | 18:56 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: statistics of running debug commits say that Nova commits are NOT culprit and migrations tests too. It means we were failing because of some other reason that exists NOT in all CI nodes. So, I would say, above change is candidate for merge as fix for 'losing connection' part. | 18:58 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: i've faced this before | 19:00 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: when you were on vacation | 19:00 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: I found a problem that happened only on some CI nodes | 19:00 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: from what I could tell, something related to their network infra, they had some ipv6 parameters displayed during startup | 19:01 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: those node variations exposed a flaw in the generic driver code | 19:01 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: which I fixed | 19:01 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: it was something dumb | 19:01 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: but the variation caused it | 19:02 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: I'll get 2 examples for you | 19:02 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: they are easy to spot | 19:02 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: so the plan is to fix the 1 bug we know about and hope that the other bug isn't too annoying? | 19:03 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: this is example 1: http://logs.openstack.org/51/403651/6/check/gate-manila-tempest-dsvm-scenario-ubuntu-xenial-nv/8d5103e/console.html | 19:04 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I would say it does not worth time | 19:04 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: this is example 2: http://logs.openstack.org/51/403651/6/check/gate-manila-tempest-dsvm-postgres-zfsonlinux-ubuntu-xenial-nv/2ccbcf7/console.html | 19:04 |
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| ganso | vponomaryov: look at the "Network neighbors..." section in the beginning | 19:04 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: also, we will have better statistics merging 'connectivity' fix | 19:06 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: according to your comment about "admin_net" and our discussion, I guess you agree that floating Ip is ok in this fix? | 19:06 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: using admin_net approach + admin_net for this case yes | 19:07 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: using *floating_ip approach + admin_net for this case yes | 19:07 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: O.O | 19:09 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: I have such eyes after reading answer | 19:09 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: the wrong answer | 19:09 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: right? | 19:09 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: both | 19:09 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: you either agree or not | 19:10 |
| vponomaryov | )) | 19:10 |
| vponomaryov | because admin_net depends on service_instance.py module, and it is completely different approach that we should not bother ourselves with | 19:10 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: previously, the generic driver was not returning an admin_only=True export location | 19:10 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: it was bug | 19:11 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: design assumes both | 19:11 |
| vponomaryov | admin and user's locations | 19:11 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: so, if you make it return an export location that you access through floating ip connection, and it is admin_only=True, that would be ok | 19:11 |
| vponomaryov | yes, it is exactly so now | 19:11 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: that is great | 19:11 |
| vponomaryov | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403651/ | 19:11 |
| vponomaryov | and was so when you proposed admin net ) | 19:12 |
| vponomaryov | ^_^ | 19:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila: [Devstack] Use openstack CLI instead of other clients https://review.openstack.org/402169 | 19:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/puppet-manila: Fix spec test for sync https://review.openstack.org/405204 | 19:22 |
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| dustins | Hey all, is there a way to tell the Tempest tests to use a preexisting share type through the Tempest conf rather than specifying one in the Manila conf? | 19:51 |
| bswartz | dustins: depends on which tests IIRC | 19:52 |
| bswartz | many tests create share types as part of the test | 19:53 |
| dustins | yeah, I think I'm getting tripped up on failures where it expects one to be there | 19:53 |
| * dustins grabs the actual test failure | 19:53 | |
| bswartz | what problem are you trying to solve? | 19:53 |
| dustins | I guess I want to know how to tell Tempest that when it needs to use a pre-existing share type, to use this one | 19:54 |
| dustins | Rather than providing a default type in the Manila configuration | 19:54 |
| dustins | manila_tempest_tests.tests.api.admin.test_export_locations.ExportLocationsTest | 19:54 |
| dustins | That's (one of) the offending tests | 19:55 |
| bswartz | well I was going to say -- tempest should use the default -- it shouldn't expect anything else to exist | 19:55 |
| bswartz | however it's impossible for the default to not exist -- so I'm confused | 19:55 |
| dustins | There are a few tests that fail with a scheduler error saying that the request requires a share type and that it either needs to be included in the request or defined in the manila conf | 19:55 |
| bswartz | dustins: what happens when you simply run "manila create NFS 1"? | 19:57 |
| dustins | http://paste.openstack.org/show/591174/ | 19:57 |
| dustins | That's the error from the scheduler I'm seeing | 19:57 |
| dustins | One second... | 19:57 |
| dustins | bswartz: http://paste.openstack.org/show/591175/ | 19:58 |
| dustins | TL;DR: It fails | 19:58 |
| bswartz | dustins: you really need to be creating a default share type then | 19:59 |
| bswartz | devstack does this for you | 19:59 |
| bswartz | if you're not using devstack then whatever you're using has a bug | 20:00 |
| dustins | Is it something that we expect deployers to do? | 20:00 |
| dustins | Sounds like it is | 20:00 |
| bswartz | the default is not optional | 20:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jan Provaznik proposed openstack/puppet-manila: Update ceph.conf when setting manila ceph backend https://review.openstack.org/405601 | 20:00 |
| dustins | So there always has to be at least one share type defined, the default one | 20:00 |
| bswartz | deployment tools are required to populate manila.conf with a valid default share type | 20:00 |
| bswartz | yes | 20:01 |
| dustins | Huh, I didn't know that, actually | 20:01 |
| bswartz | it's a backwards compatibility thing | 20:01 |
| bswartz | users expect to be able to get shares without specifying a share type | 20:01 |
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| bswartz | therefore a default must exist | 20:01 |
| dustins | Looks like I gotta open a bug, then | 20:02 |
| dustins | (and assign a default share type :) ) | 20:02 |
| bswartz | such is the life of QA engineers | 20:02 |
| dustins | Indeed, though it's QE now :P | 20:02 |
| bswartz | I keep hearing that | 20:03 |
| bswartz | what does QE stand for? | 20:03 |
| dustins | Quality Engineer | 20:03 |
| dustins | Same thing, different title, haha | 20:03 |
| bswartz | okay so you don't say QE engineer, you just say QE | 20:03 |
| dustins | Yup! | 20:08 |
| dustins | I'll say "I'm OpenStack QE" when someone asks what I do | 20:08 |
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| tbarron | bswartz: just to be clear, it is perfectly possible to make /etc/manila.conf w/o setting a default share type, the default value in the sample conf is <None>, and it is perfectly possible to create non-default share types and have users always refer to a share type when they create shares | 20:26 |
| tbarron | bswartz: so even though **devstack** doesn't do that, I don't agree that deployments are always broken if they don't populate with a valid default share type | 20:27 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we developers may have the expectation that it will be set from working with devstack. | 20:27 |
| tbarron | bswartz: but do we document or otherwise set that expectaion otherwise? | 20:27 |
| dustins | tbarron: Though without the default share type set, the suite of Tempest tests will fail | 20:27 |
| dustins | Which to me seems like an issue with Tempest | 20:27 |
| tbarron | dustins: most cloud builders never run tempest | 20:28 |
| tbarron | bswartz: if we want to insist that it be set we should fail startup with it unset, no? | 20:28 |
| dustins | tbarron: +1 | 20:29 |
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| tbarron | but failing startup if it's not set would be backwards-incompatible, as would failing anythiing else if it's not set | 20:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Victoria Martinez de la Cruz proposed openstack/manila-image-elements: Removes LXC/LXD support on manila-image-elements https://review.openstack.org/405629 | 20:58 |
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| bswartz | tbarron: when we designed the whole default share type thing, we had to decide whether to require deployments to ensure that the default share type existed or whether manila should create one on its own | 21:17 |
| bswartz | tbarron: at the time, no automated deployment tools existed, so there was nobody to inform of our decision | 21:17 |
| bswartz | tbarron: however we decided it was better to let the deployment tool set the default share type, because of issues with DHSS=true/false | 21:18 |
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| bswartz | We could ensure that the API service crashes on startup if nothing is defined -- if that would be a clearer way to communicate to users that they need to do something | 21:18 |
| bswartz | basically we made this decision like 2 years ago and this is the first time it's caused a problem | 21:19 |
| tbarron | bswartz: but also you allow everything (except tempest) to work without setting a default share type, so you have let the cat out of the bag | 21:19 |
| bswartz | tbarron: no that's not true | 21:19 |
| tbarron | bswartz: it only doesn't cause a problem b/c cloud deployers don't run tempest | 21:19 |
| tbarron | ? | 21:19 |
| bswartz | dustins demonstrated that "manila create NFS 1" fails out of the box if you don't set the default share type | 21:19 |
| bswartz | that's "working as intended" from my perspective | 21:20 |
| tbarron | right, but all you have to do is provide a shar-type with the command and it works | 21:20 |
| bswartz | yes | 21:20 |
| bswartz | that doesn't mean it's okay to not have a default share type | 21:20 |
| tbarron | so it's natural to think that I can make a cloud and tell my users here are the share types and there is no default | 21:20 |
| tbarron | might even be a great use case | 21:21 |
| tbarron | insist on explicit when it's too easy to make a mistake if there's a default | 21:21 |
| bswartz | it's not a valid use case because it breaks backwards compatibility | 21:21 |
| tbarron | only with tempest | 21:21 |
| tbarron | not with deployments | 21:21 |
| bswartz | no with clients that expect a default to exist | 21:21 |
| tbarron | ? what clients? none that we publish | 21:22 |
| bswartz | "manila create NFS 1" is supposed to work | 21:22 |
| bswartz | it's been defined as a valid command for years | 21:22 |
| bswartz | we can't suddenly take that away from users | 21:22 |
| bswartz | now how we make it work is up to us | 21:23 |
| bswartz | we can be more aggressive in forcing the admin to define the default, by refusing to start until it exists | 21:23 |
| bswartz | or we can do something like creating a magical default | 21:23 |
| tbarron | seems backwards incompat | 21:23 |
| bswartz | backwards incompatible how? | 21:24 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yeah, maybe. Probably DHSS=False if my market research is correct :) | 21:24 |
| bswartz | my point is that for API compatibility, the default must continue to exist | 21:24 |
| tbarron | it's a behavioral change in startup. cloud admins could be relying on the current behavior that they can runn without it. | 21:24 |
| bswartz | tbarron: that's an upgradability issue, not a compatibility issue | 21:25 |
| bswartz | when we talk about backward compatibility, we only care about end users and REST APIs | 21:25 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ok, I can go with upgradability vs api compatability, got it | 21:25 |
| bswartz | admins get much rougher treatment than end users | 21:26 |
| tbarron | my customers care about both so I tend to elide the two | 21:26 |
| bswartz | however we do claim to care about upgradeability, so I agree there's an issue | 21:26 |
| tbarron | in the near term dustin is just going to create a default share type before running tempest, but | 21:26 |
| tbarron | I think we can inisist that there always be a default share type, and | 21:27 |
| tbarron | atm I'm inclined to think making a magic one may make sense as a | 21:27 |
| bswartz | the question is how do we guarantee it's present? | 21:27 |
| bswartz | what's wrong with creating it as part of deployment? | 21:28 |
| tbarron | way to avoid too much unpleasant surprise. | 21:28 |
| bswartz | rpm -i manila should result in a default share type existing | 21:28 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we can create as part of deployment, but that just puts the decision of DHSS=False or True downstream on the deployer. | 21:28 |
| tbarron | bswartz: right, I don't want it to be a tripleo or fuel or crowbar thing. | 21:29 |
| bswartz | tbarron: I agrue that's where it should be | 21:29 |
| tbarron | these can override if they want | 21:29 |
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| bswartz | those tools know what drivers also being configured | 21:29 |
| tbarron | "that's " - in the packager's decision? | 21:29 |
| bswartz | yes | 21:29 |
| tbarron | oh, in the deployer rmp? | 21:29 |
| tbarron | deployer tool? | 21:30 |
| bswartz | the extra specs on the default share type should be compatible with at least one configured backend | 21:30 |
| bswartz | otherwise the situation is as bad as not having the default | 21:30 |
| bswartz | and nobody knows what backends are configured except the deployment tool | 21:30 |
| tbarron | bswartz: and how would it decide if multiple backends are deployed, some DHSS=True and some false? | 21:31 |
| bswartz | the reason this is so ugly is because we decided to make DHSS a *required* extra spec and not allow people to leave it blank | 21:31 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we can't just punt all hard decisions downstream :) | 21:31 |
| bswartz | well this particular hard decision has come home to roost | 21:31 |
| bswartz | it was made during Kilo and didn't cause and problems until now | 21:32 |
| tbarron | bswartz: i expect we agree that default share type would be a lowest-common denominator, nothing but DHSS=True or False. | 21:32 |
| tbarron | the rest is up to the cloud admin to set | 21:32 |
| bswartz | yeah | 21:32 |
| bswartz | I worry that creating a magical one will lead to unexpected behavior | 21:32 |
| bswartz | maybe it's the lesser to 2 evils | 21:33 |
| bswartz | of* 2 evils | 21:33 |
| * dustins gets the feeling that he accidentally kicked the hornets nest | 21:33 | |
| dustins | :P | 21:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: maybe right, sounds like something we should discuss at the next meeting | 21:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I'm not trying to force any quick decision | 21:33 |
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| tbarron | bswartz: but would be very interested in what SUSE or MOS or Helion or SAP or Cern, etc. think | 21:34 |
| bswartz | yeah I agree | 21:34 |
| bswartz | we had the luxury of not worrying about them back in the kilo timeframe | 21:34 |
| tbarron | :) | 21:35 |
| bswartz | tbarron: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 21:35 |
| ganso | bswartz, tbarron: sorry if I am interrupting the current discussion, but I would like to clarify this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405516/ | 21:35 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we're good, ty | 21:35 |
| tbarron | ganso: ty | 21:36 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ganso and I had different memories. emprically, I would be on his. subjectively, I'm attached to my own. | 21:36 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ganso final thoughts on this likely should include gouthamr | 21:37 |
| * gouthamr wakes up | 21:37 | |
| ganso | I believed we agreed to remove the docs because they were going to have duplicated information according to the config ref and woul have be synced over time | 21:37 |
| ganso | so the last comments of that subject in the meeting were in regards to the first party drivers, who maintains them | 21:38 |
| ganso | the community maintains, but I am not sure if we agreed to as where... so what made sense to me was that the community maintains them at the config ref, to avoid duplicity | 21:39 |
| ganso | sorry I just googled for duplicity and I think that is not the word I want to use | 21:39 |
| tbarron | ganso: yeah, duplicity is for high offices in the land | 21:40 |
| ganso | s/duplicity/duplicated entries | 21:40 |
| tbarron | and secret agents | 21:40 |
| ganso | tbarron: duplicity sounds similar to what we use in portuguese for "duplicated entries" | 21:40 |
| bswartz | all of the first party drivers have official maintainers | 21:41 |
| tbarron | ganso: yeah, i think for romance languages in general | 21:41 |
| gouthamr | ganso tbarron: it's valuable to have developer oriented documentation regarding first party drivers in the devref | 21:41 |
| bswartz | with the exception of the container driver which is officially unmaintained | 21:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yeah, and they can just update the config, i think gouthamr and I were thinking it's very useful for developers to look for config and deployment info on first-party in devref. | 21:42 |
| gouthamr | ganso tbarron: config ref speaks to storage admins imo, i get confused seeing how some of the "simple stuff" is documented there. | 21:42 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ganso perhaps all config should be in official config, all deployment in official deployment, but | 21:42 |
| gouthamr | ganso tbarron: when someone starts contributing to our project, they're not going to go through the configuration ref | 21:42 |
| gouthamr | that's for deployers. | 21:42 |
| bswartz | tbarron yes! | 21:42 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: the dev docs can refer to other docs | 21:43 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ganso devref can contain a little wrapper thing around pointers to those and any special stuff useful for developers to know | 21:43 |
| bswartz | refering to other docs is way better than duplicating content | 21:43 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: yes they can.. but take a look at how the ZFS/LVM documentation is written - it's for devstack | 21:43 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: that can be fixed | 21:43 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: i meant, currently, in the devref.... i'd hate to complicate the learning curve for new contributors | 21:44 |
| tbarron | so it would be helpful to have a section for each first party driver on how to deploy in devstack | 21:45 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: i think it's good to have stuff in there that'd help someone set up any of the first party drivers.. no complicated configuration or deployment advice.. | 21:45 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: we can include information in the devref that's useful for developers without duplicating information that really belongs in deployer-facing docs | 21:45 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: +1 | 21:45 |
| tbarron | for each non-vendor open source driver, not arguing atm that they are co-extensive sets :) | 21:45 |
| tbarron | it would be a choice of the upstream community for such open source drivers if they want to provide such developer-friendly doc | 21:46 |
| gouthamr | ganso tbarron: so, maybe we can audit them before throwing them out right away? by all means remove vendor docs right away... | 21:46 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: +1 | 21:47 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I am not seeing any reference to devstack for step-by-step on how to setup ZFS here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405516/1/doc/source/devref/zfs_on_linux_driver.rst | 21:47 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: the code review is where the audit should happen -- review ganso's patch | 21:47 |
| tbarron | bswartz made the good point that the info is not really *lost* as it's in git but it still could be a bit unfriendly | 21:47 |
| bswartz | tbarron: +1 | 21:47 |
| gouthamr | true :) | 21:48 |
| ganso | gouthamr: and I don't see the LVM doc page | 21:48 |
| tbarron | this was a good discussion, I think we could suggest some incrementalism in the code review | 21:48 |
| bswartz | ganso: blame the LVM maintainer -- oh wait's that me :-[ | 21:48 |
| gouthamr | sigh. | 21:48 |
| ganso | I looked at all the pages and I did not find info I found relevant to developers | 21:48 |
| gouthamr | ganso: okay, we can fix that.. | 21:48 |
| * tbarron blames bswartz again | 21:48 | |
| tbarron | PTL gets default scapegoat role anyways | 21:49 |
| bswartz | LVM is not hard to maintain | 21:49 |
| bswartz | if it's missing a config ref I can add it | 21:49 |
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| tbarron | bswartz: iirc the cental config ref for LVM is ok | 21:49 |
| * gouthamr adds LVM to install guide | 21:49 | |
| tbarron | central | 21:50 |
| * gouthamr is really cool that way | 21:50 | |
| tbarron | gouthamr has really good hair too | 21:50 |
| gouthamr | lol | 21:50 |
| ganso | o_O | 21:50 |
| tbarron | he's riding in his sports car with his shades on right now | 21:51 |
| gouthamr | ganso tbarron: devref can now have quick deploy all the first party drivers in an all-in-one machine (almost types devstack) then? | 21:51 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i'm the one who's supposed to be sleeping and dreaming, lol :P | 21:52 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I have never tried that | 21:52 |
| gouthamr | we'll soon have instructions how to - i have bswartz's recipe for lvm, i can post that | 21:53 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: it's a good dream. Across platforms right now I believe empirically that lvm and cephfs will work together, am working on extending that set. generic is proving indeterminstic so far. I haven't really mucked with container yet though I like it conceptually. | 21:55 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: probably need to put caveats around disk size and ram for the vm too. | 21:55 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: the container driver works on devstack/ubuntu just the way it's written | 21:56 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: that's the second platform I run on (xenial) | 21:56 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: i don't bother with trusty since upstream is off of it | 21:56 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: nice.. | 21:56 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: it's not really ideological - we've just seen today a case where devstack assumptions aren't aligniing with distro/deployement assumptions | 21:57 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: so since I have to support the latter I want my first devstack to approximate it as much as possible | 21:58 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: then I care about xenial b/c (1) that's certainly valid too, and (2) it runs in gate | 21:58 |
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| gouthamr | tbarron: i agree... it's also dead simple to new developers and unless the feature demands it, i've not needed to use any other way of deploying. | 22:00 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ^^ you are referring to container driver? | 22:00 |
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| gouthamr | tbarron: but then i'm reminded of availability zones | 22:00 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i'm referring to devstack aio | 22:01 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: got it | 22:01 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: devstack aio is great, but not good for distributed computing issues and we'll be seeing more of those as we move forwards | 22:01 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: finding a compact developement environment that's easy and fast to deploy for those is a challenge | 22:02 |
| tbarron | development | 22:02 |
| tbarron | ganso spells so much better than I do | 22:03 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: yeah, it's a pita to get multi-node working - which is why i tested tooz on a real deployment.. | 22:03 |
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| ganso | tbarron: I really don't think I do | 22:03 |
| * tbarron notices that gouthamr reminded him of his debt on the tooz review | 22:03 | |
| gouthamr | tbarron: by real i used multi-node separation from a fancy hat company | 22:03 |
| tbarron | very politely though | 22:03 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: well, that's real, but we could be making assumptions of our own :) | 22:04 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: that's partly a theoretical point, and partly practical | 22:04 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: historically, we've had rigid "roles" - controller, compute, storage | 22:05 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: but customers wanted flexibility and now they are "composable" | 22:05 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: and even though stuff was distributed before, we see breakage now when things weren't as decoupled as everyone thought | 22:06 |
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| tbarron | ganso: it doesn't matter what you *think*; it matters how you *spell* - but just for this narrow point, you think just fine too | 22:06 |
| ganso | tbarron: lol I am very confused, but thanks | 22:08 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: ah, interesting... containerized deployments are going to make things further challenging.. | 22:09 |
| tbarron | ganso: fair enough, i was back-referencing your remark about not thinking you spell things better than I | 22:09 |
| tbarron | ganso: but not a substantive remark on my part | 22:09 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: yeah, they change the dependency game. I can deploy manila with old neutron and tempest dependencies - internally. | 22:10 |
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| gouthamr | tbarron: we should start integrating and testing manila with OSA to understand that | 22:11 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: but in the actual cloud unless neutron and nova (and tempest when I test) can handle the old depencies I think we're still in trouble, no? | 22:11 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i think we have folks that use bleeding manila with older neutron | 22:12 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: w.r.t OSA, maybe. personally I'm more inclined to kolla/kubernetes, but what do I know? | 22:12 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: not sure how much older though | 22:12 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: are you asking in mkoderer___ is still working tonight? | 22:13 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: if he has so many underscores, he's probably snoozing | 22:13 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: it's way past your bedtime and I need to eat dinner | 22:14 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: haha true... ciao! | 22:14 |
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