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| openstackgerrit | zhongjun proposed openstack/manila-specs master: Allow to filter resources by inexact value matching in 'list' APIs https://review.openstack.org/447775 | 01:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Shubhendu Poothia proposed openstack/manila master: Set access_policy for messaging's dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/459944 | 05:29 |
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| tommylikehu | ping jprovazn | 10:42 |
| jprovazn | tommylikehu, hi | 10:42 |
| tommylikehu | yeah, do you have any idea on this patch? | 10:43 |
| tommylikehu | about the user message | 10:44 |
| tommylikehu | I think I should not paste the link here :) | 10:44 |
| jprovazn | tommylikehu, I think it's fine as it is, my previous comment was invalid. I was updating manila's patch today and if I don't find an obstacle then +1 from me (well, Eric added a comment) | 10:46 |
| tommylikehu | thanks | 10:46 |
| tommylikehu | jprovazn you mean Eric added a comment on which one? | 10:49 |
| jprovazn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/448384/14/cinder/volume/manager.py | 10:50 |
| jprovazn | tommylikehu, ^ | 10:50 |
| tommylikehu | wow, he is right :) | 10:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tom Barron proposed openstack/manila master: coordination: use tooz builtin heartbeat feature https://review.openstack.org/460522 | 12:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | zhongjun proposed openstack/manila-specs master: Add spec for gathering share usage size https://review.openstack.org/459150 | 12:28 |
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| bswartz | zhongjun: what other projects rely on memcached? | 13:44 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: keystone and nova? | 13:47 |
| bswartz | tommylikehu: do those projects have memcached as a hard requirement or a soft requirement? | 13:47 |
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| tommylikehu | bswartz: not sure, let't check their documentation or just wait her online | 13:50 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: doesn't like a hard requirement for keystone | 13:53 |
| tommylikehu | https://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/configuration.html#caching-layer | 13:53 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: It does not a hard requirement for nova and keystone | 14:45 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: But openstack recommend to use memcached in nova and keystone | 14:46 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: memcached is set to default in devstack | 14:46 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: and it also used in heat and horizon | 14:50 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: soft or hard requirement for those projects? | 14:51 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: soft | 14:52 |
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| bswartz | zhongjun: can we ensure that manila has a soft requirement too? perhaps make usage monitoring completely optional? | 14:53 |
| bswartz | I would like it if by default it's not turned on, and the administrator needs to specifically enable it -- this will avoid any breakage during upgrades | 14:54 |
| tbarron | zhongjun: not related to the hard/soft dependency - though I agree it's an important issue - | 14:54 |
| tbarron | wikipedia says: The servers keep the values in RAM; if a server runs out of RAM, it discards the oldest values. Therefore, clients must treat Memcached as a transitory cache; they cannot assume that data stored in Memcached is still there when they need it. Other databases, such as MemcacheDB, Couchbase Server, provide persistent storage while maintaining Memcached protocol compatibility. | 14:54 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: yes, now, we make usage monitoring completely optional in the spec | 14:55 |
| tbarron | zhongjun: are you planning a fallback to a driver call if there's a cache miss? | 14:55 |
| tbarron | zhongjun: not an objection, just a design aspect to be thought through. | 14:56 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: might want to add some comments in "other deployer impact" about what an admin needs to do to turn on the feature after an upgrade from ocata to pike, or after a fresh install of pike | 14:56 |
| zhongjun | tbarron: yeah, we could do it like the other project | 14:57 |
| bswartz | tbarron: that's a good point -- if memcached is acting as a cache only and not an authoritative data source then we need an authoritative data source somewhere | 14:57 |
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| tbarron | And if we're going to have a slower-path lookup if the cache entry is missing maybe we can still get usage if the whole cache itself is not present as well. | 14:58 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: sure | 14:59 |
| bswartz | yeah that argues for only implemented the slow path if the first implementation and leaving caching as an optimization for future releases | 14:59 |
| bswartz | it's not clear to me that an optimization would be required at all for our use case | 15:00 |
| tbarron | I could see a cloud operator who just wants to know usage once a day doing a lot of little queries over the course of the day, driven by some automatioon outside manila instead of running the periodic task that grabs usages for all shares on the backend at once. | 15:00 |
| bswartz | alright let's start the meeting | 15:00 |
| tbarron | zhongjun does allow for not running the periodic task at cloud ops discretion | 15:00 |
| bswartz | --> #openstack-meeting-alt <-- | 15:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/manila-specs master: Allow to filter resources by inexact value matching in 'list' APIs https://review.openstack.org/447775 | 15:55 |
| bswartz | tbarron: did it spawn more than 1? | 16:00 |
| ganso | lol I cannot avoid laughing when someone talks about a project named gnochi | 16:00 |
| bswartz | ganso: ikr? worst project name ever | 16:01 |
| tbarron | bswartz: there's time series data project (gnocchi), alarms/notifications project (aodh) | 16:03 |
| tbarron | I could see admin's wanting an alarm if a share passes a size threshold. | 16:03 |
| tbarron | And doing reports on distribution of share utilizations over time series, plotting utilization and nominal size against time and classes of users. | 16:04 |
| bswartz | tbarron: if we emit the data properly though, aren't all those things possible without further changes to manila? | 16:05 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: If we store info in db or other place, gathering usage size from memcached will reduce the interaction and | 16:07 |
| zhongjun | improve the performance when we have multiple manila share service nodes | 16:07 |
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| bswartz | zhongjun: the proposal is that we transmit the data to other services and let them store the data -- performance then depends on how those other projects implement storage | 16:08 |
| bswartz | if ceilometer or gnocchi uses memcached already, then perhaps it's very efficient to retrieve data from them | 16:09 |
| tbarron | zhongjun: so if we have active-active share service, or multiple share server processes on one active node for multiple backends, does emitting to another consumer have a problem? | 16:10 |
| tbarron | in the active active case one could optimize and elect a leader for this kind of thing. | 16:10 |
| tbarron | or just let all active services announce. | 16:11 |
| tbarron | we have a similar issue with active-active for updates to the scheduler. | 16:11 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: so I just store it in memcatch. If we send huge shares info to ceilmetor by API or RPC... It will not have performance problem? | 16:11 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: memcache isn't a stable storage system -- it's lossy by design | 16:12 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: memcached must have some kind of stable storage behind it | 16:12 |
| bswartz | sending the data to another service using the notifications framework is likely to be as efficient as any other solution | 16:13 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: the notifications framework? | 16:13 |
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| tommylikehu | make manila depended on well known software is better than a openstack project. | 16:14 |
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| bswartz | tommylikehu: the problem I see is that we can't implement this inside manila without duplicating functionality already in other projects like ceilometer | 16:18 |
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| bswartz | efficiently storing time-series data is not the hardest problem in the world, but they've solved it already and we haven't | 16:19 |
| bswartz | why would we (a small dev team) take on that problem when others in openstack ecosystem have a solution we can use? | 16:19 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: read vkmc's spec about ceilometer integration | 16:19 |
| bswartz | I'm fuzzy on the details but the mechanism to emit data from any project to ceilometer is relatively lightweight and easy to use as I understand it | 16:20 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: Idon't like the idea to use ceilmeter or any time series databse, if memcache is not good enough for our case, then try to replace it with a simple one | 16:21 |
| bswartz | tommylikehu: I have good news then -- the mechanism we would use to emit data to ceilometer is pluggable, and if ceilometer is undesirable then it should be possible to plug in any other storage solution | 16:23 |
| bswartz | the key is that it makes sense for manila to collect this data, but not to store or retrieve it -- we should leave that to an external thing (could be ceilometer, could be anything else) | 16:23 |
| bswartz | the core of the objection here is that we don't want to increase manila's scope beyond what we already do and just collecting and emiting this data | 16:24 |
| bswartz | if we store the data and provide an API to retrieve it then that's a significant new responsibility that comes with various problems to solve | 16:25 |
| tbarron | tommylikehu: I know you won't have usage data to collect for cinder, but isn't there some data for cinder that a cloud admin might want to look at | 16:25 |
| tbarron | while looking at manila data for the same users? | 16:25 |
| bswartz | the problems were mentioned during the meeting: how to deal with data staleness/inaccuracy, how to store and retrieve the data compactly/efficiently | 16:25 |
| tbarron | tommylikehu: that argues for both cinder and manila sending their data to a third party. | 16:26 |
| bswartz | also the lower level question of how to handle cases when the feature is turned off or the backend doesn't support collection | 16:27 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: ok, I will. | 16:28 |
| bswartz | the best argument that I heard during the meeting was that this data is inherently volatile, and manila currently doesn't store anything volatile | 16:28 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: store that info into a seperate database table as a default and provide a better experience when configured with redis or memcache | 16:29 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: We could store even if we doesn't store now. :) | 16:29 |
| bswartz | tommylikehu: I think you're still missing the point of the argument -- manila should not expose this kind of data directly through our REST interface -- it's not a storage issue or a performance issue | 16:30 |
| bswartz | I mean those things do matter, but even if they didn't, the core of the problem is the kind of data we're collecting | 16:30 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: ok | 16:31 |
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| bswartz | they're volatile values, and they should be consumed differently that other aspects of the shares | 16:31 |
| bswartz | like CPU usage of a nova VM | 16:31 |
| bswartz | it's a number that changes over time | 16:32 |
| bswartz | if the number is too old, it might be wildly inaccurate | 16:32 |
| bswartz | this kind of data greatly benefits from historical storage too | 16:32 |
| bswartz | nothing else in manila would | 16:33 |
| bswartz | we're not going to build a historical usage table into manila just for this feature -- it's been done well elsewhere | 16:33 |
| bswartz | if your argument is against ceilometer/gnocchi, then the mechanism we would use to integrate with them can also be used to integrate with something far simpler | 16:34 |
| bswartz | the point is to push the storage/retrieval parts of the problem outside of manila | 16:34 |
| bswartz | so keep manila's scope small and focused | 16:34 |
| bswartz | s/so/to/ | 16:34 |
| tommylikehu | bswartz: I am happy with ceilometer not required:) | 16:35 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: If we add a new third part software to collect usage size, if can be work after we need to add some code in manila to send usage size info to software? | 16:37 |
| zhongjun | s /if /it | 16:37 |
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| bswartz | zhongjun: yes that's why I encourage you to talk to vkmc and look at her spec about ceilometer integration | 17:42 |
| bswartz | it's about more than just ceilometer -- it's integration with all things like ceilometer | 17:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila-ui master: Fix manila quota operations https://review.openstack.org/460698 | 17:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila-ui master: Fix manila quota operations https://review.openstack.org/460698 | 17:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila-ui master: Fix share creation from snapshot https://review.openstack.org/460248 | 18:03 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: enjoy ^ | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | brilliant. thanks | 18:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Valeriy Ponomaryov proposed openstack/manila-ui master: Fix manila quota operations https://review.openstack.org/460698 | 18:05 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: and above just for case you review it too )) | 18:06 |
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| gouthamr | haha... lemme test it :) | 18:06 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: it is available in three places | 18:07 |
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| vponomaryov | gouthamr: 1) create project in admin tab, 'quotas' page | 18:07 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: 2) update existing project's quota | 18:08 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: 3) update default quotas in general | 18:08 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: all three in admin tab | 18:08 |
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| * vponomaryov dreams about very light-weight "tox" job for building reno releasenotes, because now it installs lots of heavy redundant deps such as "horizon" | 18:10 | |
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| bswartz | is horizon even used when building release notes? | 18:11 |
| bswartz | it not, why can't we remove it? | 18:11 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: used, we can | 18:11 |
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| gouthamr | ohh, because of test-requirements? | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | interesting side-effect | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | vponomaryov: thanks for the test steps.. will try it right now | 18:15 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: can i be added to this: https://launchpad.net/~manila-drivers | 18:26 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: I'd rather add you to a specific team with the power that lets you do what you need to | 18:27 |
| bswartz | what can't you do? | 18:27 |
| gouthamr | i traced back to that from manila-ui bugs page | 18:27 |
| gouthamr | "Bug supervisor" is set to that team | 18:28 |
| bswartz | actually it's set to this team: https://launchpad.net/~manila-ui-drivers | 18:28 |
| gouthamr | yes | 18:28 |
| gouthamr | that has two teams | 18:28 |
| bswartz | different team | 18:28 |
| bswartz | and manila has a separate bug supervisors team | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | https://launchpad.net/~manila-ui-drivers/+members#active | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | perhaps we should add https://launchpad.net/~manila-bug-supervisors directly under https://launchpad.net/~manila-ui-drivers/+members#active | 18:30 |
| bswartz | I can fix this | 18:31 |
| bswartz | one moment | 18:31 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: fixed (I hope) | 18:33 |
| bswartz | I created a new group for manila ui bug supervision that inherits from the other groups | 18:33 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: eventually they will make us use storyboard anyways =-P | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | :) so many levels of nesting | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | got an email | 18:34 |
| bswartz | indeed | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | and launchpad shows a graph now 'Goutham Pacha Ravi → Manila Bug Supervisors → Manila UI Bug Supervisors' | 18:35 |
| gouthamr | :P | 18:35 |
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| bswartz | sounds like working as intended | 18:36 |
| bswartz | the groups merely exist because you can't assign the power to multiple people | 18:36 |
| bswartz | and we're trying to avoid everyone having the power to do everything | 18:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/manila-ui master: Fix share creation from snapshot https://review.openstack.org/460248 | 18:46 |
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| gouthamr | ^ cherry-picked | 18:51 |
| ganso | gouthamr: thanks! | 18:54 |
| gouthamr | ganso: :) button-clicking | 18:55 |
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