Friday, 2014-05-23

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Alex_GaynorProbably relevant to some folks in here:
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alcabreraAlex_Gaynor: thanks! malini_afk will be thrilled to see this fix. :)13:04
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peoplemergeflaper87|afk: g'morning from LA !13:18
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AAzzaalcabrera: hello!14:01
alcabreraAAzza: hey! how are you? :)14:01
AAzzagood, thanks)14:02
AAzzaalcabrera:  see it is result of quick look on tests failures14:04
AAzzaalcabrera: i'm looking on the one with the filter_stream :)14:06
* alcabrera loads link14:07
alcabreraoooh, this traceback is nice14:08
alcabreraall cleaned up14:08
alcabreraif only they were this easy to parse in general. ;)14:08
alcabrerathanks, AAzza!14:08
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AAzzaalcabrera: do you have time to discuss everything now?)14:09
AAzzaalcabrera: just want to understand the roadmap and go away to make chokolate cakes;-)14:10
vkmcHi all :)14:11
alcabreraAAzza: mmm, chocolate cake... :D14:11
vkmcAAzza, +1!!14:11
alcabrerabut yes14:11
alcabreraI have time14:11
alcabreravkmc: hey!14:11
vkmcHey alcabrera o/14:11
prashanthr_vkmc , AAzza and alcabrera: Hi :)14:11
alcabreraprashanthr_: hey! :)14:11
vkmcprashanthr_, Hi there! :)14:12
alcabreraawesome, we're all here. I've been reading so much email I didn't notice at first. ;)14:12
vkmcabettadapur is here too :D14:12
AAzzaprashanthr_, vkmc: Nice day)14:12
vkmcall the interns \o/14:12
alcabreraAAzza: I annotated the py3-etherpad with notes that might help.14:13
AAzzaalcabrera: thanks, i see :)14:14
AAzzaalcabrera: i' m not sure if i should commit changes before requirements-py3k will merged?14:14
alcabreraIt's safe to start working on them, AAzza. It might be worthwhile to submit it as a child patch, too.14:15
alcabreraNew fixes14:15
alcabrerasuch that14:15
alcabrerapy3-reqs -> py3-fix1 -> py3-fix2 -> ... -> py3-complete14:15
alcabreraso you can always work on the latest py3 change sets14:15
alcabrerawhat do you think, AAzza?14:15
AAzzaalcabrera: yes, will be there no problem sending it to review to Gerrit?14:16
alcabrerashould be okay, as long as you always 'git branch -b new_branch' from the latest14:16
alcabreragerrit should automatically connect them after that14:16
AAzzaalcabrera: hmmm... hmm... I have my commit with py-reqs in the branch bp/python-3k i though i should do all commit with this branch14:18
alcabreraAAzza: hmmm... when working on the sharding feature for marconi, I had to create a new branch for each commit, since there were several that would often sit in the review queue14:19
alcabreraI had things like14:19
alcabrera(mongodb_interface) $14:20
alcabrera(mongodb_interface) $ git co -b mongodb_catalogue14:20
alcabrera(mongodb_catalogue) $ git co -b mongodb_shards14:20
alcabreraand so on14:20
alcabreraI'd sometimes have to jump between them to rebase14:20
alcabrerait got ugly at times14:20
alcabrera(mongodb_shards) $ git co mongodb_interface; (mongodb_interface) $ git rebase -i master14:21
alcabreraI hope there's a better way to do this than I've been doing14:21
AAzzaalcabrera: okeey. I think I just could have moments of syncs, when wait for all commits to be merged to master (since most of them are small and rather independent) and re-start the sequence)14:22
AAzzaalcabrera:  thanks. also another question14:23
alcabrerasure thing, AAzza. :)14:25
AAzzaalcabrera: i see that there is patch on review with requirements update. So if it will be merged before req-py3 I should update review for py3 for it to be consistant?)14:25
alcabrerasince reqs.txt <-> reqs-py3.txt14:26
AAzzaalcabrera: understand, thanks.14:27
prashanthr_alcabrera : I was able to put messages into marconi via redis today :)14:30
alcabreraprashanthr_: nice! :D14:30
prashanthr_i had one small doubt14:31
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prashanthr_in this line why is there a next(results) followed by a list formation ?14:33
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alcabreraah, I see14:40
alcabreraresults is a stream of messages that ends with a marker14:41
alcabreraso the first call to next retrieves the messages14:41
alcabrerathe next call retrieves the marker14:41
alcabreraprashanthr_: ^^14:41
prashanthr_alcabrera: ahhh okay. is it designed such because of the format of the cursor from mongodb results?14:42
prashanthr_i shall look into this :)14:44
prashanthr_thank you ! :)14:44
alcabreraI think that's the "why" of the design. :)14:44
alcabreraand good luck, prashanthr_!14:45
prashanthr_alcabrera :) thank you ! :)14:45
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prashanthr_alcabrera i shall submit the gerrit review process by monday14:48
prashanthr_as i had some issues with my code14:49
prashanthr_will do it by monday evening.14:49
alcabreraprashanthr_: much appreciated!14:49
alcabreraI'm looking forward to starting reviews on that14:49
prashanthr_ha ha sure :) same here !14:50
vkmcalcabrera, I have some doubts regarding adding the support for AMQP14:51
vkmcalcabrera, because I relate it more with a transport protocol than with storage14:53
alcabreravkmc: I'm concerned, too, and I'm not sure what to make of it, since it's so much in demand. :/14:54
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vkmcalcabrera, here is the blueprint dependency graph
vkmcadding support for amqp would be the first step15:04
vkmcthen... we should work on adding the storage backend... as part of this blueprint
* alcabrera clicks15:04
alcabrerahow would that work?15:05
alcabreraI need to deploy my own rabbit/qpid thing locally to really get a feel for this. :P15:05
vkmcyeah me too15:05
alcabreraso that might be a good next task15:07
vkmcmaybe flaper87|afk has some ideas abouti t15:07
alcabrerayes, we need flaper87|afk's input! :)15:07
peoplemergesame here15:07
alcabreraflaper87|afk is in such demand15:08
vkmcsure! thing is... rabbit != amqp... it's just an implementation of amqp v0.915:08
alcabrerawe're targeting qpid/amqp-v1.015:08
alcabreraso that'd be the thing to experiment with15:08
vkmcthat would be the challenge yeah :)15:09
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vkmcbut... we need to start from something we know before that15:09
vkmcwhat about using activemq?
alcabreravkmc: agreed! I feel like we're very much in a research and learning phase.15:14
vkmcwell, I'm reading that there is an experimental plugin that supports amqp 1.0 for rabbitmq :)15:15
vkmcso we have some choices15:15
alcabreradefinitely. :)15:16
alcabreraso much Java...15:17
* alcabrera cringes15:17
vkmcyeah -.-15:17
mpanettaJava :(15:18
vkmcit's being used for really complex tools... I couldn't believe that ElasticSearch is written in Java too15:18
vkmc(and it's efficient somehow)15:19
mpanettaIf you want it to be Enterprise it has to be in Java right? :P15:19
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alcabreraJava can be efficient - run-time wise15:19
peoplemergeAnd I thought coming here I'd be able to get away from Java ;]15:19
alcabrerathat I have no doubt of15:19
alcabrerabut it's awful to develop in15:20
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alcabrerapeoplemerge: haha, nope. as far as I can tell, there's no escape from Java in the "cloud" computing world of today. :/15:21
alcabrerathe future lies in ML-derived languages: Haskell, SML, Idris, etc. -- but the future hasn't quite spread evenly yet15:21
vkmcthere are more Java/.NET developers than Haskell developers15:23
alcabreravery true15:24
vkmcand that's the main problem15:24
alcabreraand our education system unfortunately promotes that trend15:24
alcabreraIt's the uncommon case that a curriculum includes more than a single class on sound programming languages and type systems15:24
vkmcyeah, there is ony one side of software developing being addressed... and is object oriented programming15:25
alcabrerameanwhile, OOP gets the majority of classes. :(15:25
alcabreravkmc: exactly15:25
alcabreraand it's ironic, since OOP munges all the wrong things15:25
alcabrerastateful computing as the default15:25
alcabreraand types that lose strength, so proofs become weaker15:26
alcabrerathat's OOP15:26
mpanettaGetting rid of state is like removing the shackles from what I am reading...15:26
mpanettaYou can do so much more when your stateless15:26
alcabrerampanetta: definitely! I've heard it said this way, "Parallelism isn't hard. State is hard."15:26
mpanettayou're even15:28
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alcabrerampanetta: I'm even?15:29
vkmcI was thinking about this earlier today, when I heard about this academy
alcabreravkmc: oh?15:31
vkmcit seems that being a software developer for them is knowing rails/ruby/html/css/js/git15:31
alcabrerayeah. :/15:32
vkmcit's ok, is a good start... but that's not a software developer... is a web programmer15:32
mpanettaalcabrera: I was correcting myself :P15:32
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alcabrerampanetta: ah!15:33
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alcabreravkmc: I agree.15:34
alcabrerabeing a programmer, you can leverage all the power of math to write some really cool systems15:34
alcabrerait's the intersection of math and hardware15:34
mpanettaI need to start doing it15:35
alcabreraand we've the tools and foundations to really make the two work together! We've had them for over 3 decades now. :D15:35
vkmctotally! :)15:36
vkmctalking about something different15:40
vkmchow can I test the v1.0 API?15:40
vkmcs/test/interact with15:40
alcabreraI like to use httpie for testing15:40
alcabreraI can do things like15:41
vkmcI'm using it :)15:41
alcabrerawell then. :D15:41
vkmc(I asked earlier this week haha)15:41
alcabreraI forget the things I advocate for. :P15:41
vkmcbut ... where do you put the queue? like http put http://localhost:8888/v1/queues/onequeue15:41
vkmcthat would put a queue using the v1.1 API15:42
alcabreraah, I see15:42
alcabreraso let's see...15:42
vkmcdoing http put http://localhost:8888/v1.1/queues/onequeue does the same... and http put http://localhost:8888/v1.0/queues/onequeue throws a 40415:42
alcabreraI feel like there's a config option that runs the v1.0 api15:42
alcabreraI see15:43
alcabrera/v1/blah hits v1.015:43
alcabreravkmc: ^15:43
sriramI always done v1 instead of v1.0, is there a difference?15:43
alcabrerasriram: /v1.0/blah doesn't exist15:44
alcabrerasriram: /v1/blah and /v1.1/blah do15:44
sriramyeah, that was my thought as well.15:44
vkmcsriram, yeah that was my bad... didn15:45
vkmcdidn't know that /v1 == v1.015:45
vkmcthanks alcabrera15:45
alcabrerano worries. :)15:45
alcabreraand you're welcome!15:45
sriramvkmc: dont sweat it :P15:45
alcabrerait clarified things for me, too15:45
vkmccool! :)15:45
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alcabrerarunning off for a bit. lunch awaits. :)15:50
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vkmccpallares, o/15:52
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cpallareshey vkmc! how are you doing?16:24
alcabreracpallares: o/16:24
alcabreraI return from all the lunch.16:25
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cpallaresalcabrera: hi hi hi16:25
cpallaresalcabrera: how are you doing?16:25
alcabreralovely. I feel great today! :)16:25
alcabrerayou, cpallares?16:25
cpallaresalcabrera: pretty good, I had Belgian waffles for lunch :P16:26
* alcabrera steals cpallares' waffles16:26
* alcabrera steals them twice, even!16:27
alcabreracpallares: did you get a chance to watch that Types vs. Tests video I shared? :)16:27
cpallaresI don't think I did, was it on twitter?16:28
vkmcmoar waffleeeees!16:28
vkmccpallares, great! :) you?16:28
alcabreracpallares: I think I sent you a direct link at the end of a day. I forgot which... >.>16:28
alcabrerabut anyway16:28
alcabreraTitle: Types vs. Tests: An Epic Battle?16:29
alcabreravkmc: this one adds to some of the discussion we had earlier about math + computing16:29
cpallaresvkmc: Pretty good :D16:29
cpallaresalcabrera: Yay videooooos16:29
* cpallares likes videos16:29
alcabreraI have many!16:29
cpallaresalcabrera: I really like that the slides are on the side and not on the the actual video that's pretty neat16:31
alcabreracpallares: it's a sweet feature for all infoq videos!16:31
vkmcIt looks good!16:31
vkmcthose cats looks scary16:32
alcabreralong cat vs. anti-long cat16:32
cpallaresvkmc: haha16:32
alcabreralong anti-cat16:32
alcabreraI don't evemn16:32
cpallaresalcabrera: I thought the anti-cat was a dog :P16:36
alcabrerathat makes a lot of sense, cpallares!16:36
alcabrerathe dual of a cat (co-cat) -> dog16:40
alcabrerathe dual of a dog (co-dog) -> cat16:40
alcabreraoh yay16:40
alcabrerathe authors of Types vs. Tests16:40
alcabreraare doing a talk at Strange Loop this year titled: "Type Systems: the Good, the Bad, & the Ugly"16:40
cpallaresalcabrera: I was browsing the Strange Loop conference page yesterday. It looks like a fun conference.16:42
alcabrerait's very interesting, cpallares. :)16:42
alcabreraconsciousness, curious languages, math, and other curiosities16:43
alcabrerait's almost like a distillation of what makes computation beautiful16:43
alcabreraI want to go this year.16:45
alcabreraTitle: Home - Strange Loop16:46
cpallaresDo they have a livestream?16:47
alcabreraI'm not sure, cpallares. I don't think so. :/16:47
alcabrerathe videos are recorded, and usually posted a little bit after the fact.16:47
cpallaresalcabrera: good to know :)16:49
cpallaresalcabrera: I'm thinking about attending Open Source Bridge since I got funds to attend AdaCamp and OSBridge is a day after it ends, so I might as well make good use of the trip :P16:50
cpallareskgriffs: We're now on reviewday :)
alcabreracpallares: all the conferences! I've heard good things about OSB. :)16:53
alcabreraif you can make it happen, that'd be awesome16:53
mpanettamomocon is this weekend, speaking of conferences :P16:59
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alcabreraoh my, it;s very cute mpanetta! :D17:08
mpanettaI will be there saturday :)17:10
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openstackgerritAlejandro Cabrera proposed a change to openstack/python-marconiclient: fix: add https support
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peoplemergealcabrera: back online, had to commute.  Totally agree with your views on ML & concurrency.  Haskell book is on my desk now.18:33
alcabrerapeoplemerge: awesome! which book is it? :)18:34
peoplemergeO'Reilly's Real World Haskell18:34
peoplemergeI also have the Haskell School of Expression but it looks like a CS101 book18:34
alcabreraRWH is wonderful18:35
peoplemergeI know Erlang and enough Scala to stay sane in the java world18:35
peoplemergeI'm starting to appreciate it18:35
alcabrerafor everyone ramping up on Haskell18:36
alcabreraI like to point them to this:
alcabrera@bitemyapp has done a wonderful job of curating Haskell learning resources18:36
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peoplemergeJust stopped for breakfast, Naomi Watts and Liev Schreiber came in with their kids and sat right in front of us.  Nice people, they loved our pug.  LA people...18:39
alcabreraah, nifty18:40
peoplemergeLYAH was recommended to me by a colleague too.18:40
alcabreraLYAH has the best initial treatment of functors and monads of all currently available books, I think.18:41
peoplemergeoh good.  I don't know monads.18:41
alcabreraRWH makes good use of monads/functors when explaining parsers18:41
peoplemergealcabrera: Suggestions for category theory?18:41
alcabrerapeoplemerge: I've used Steve Awodey's text a bit, and i've also had some luck with The Joy of Cats18:42
peoplemergexlnt.  I've got a good theoretical background for parsers18:42
alcabrerapeoplemerge: Awodey's ( and Joy of Cats (
peoplemergeReading ...18:44
peoplemergeThis will be fun long weekend material!18:44
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alcabreraoh yes!18:49
alcabrerapeoplemerge: don't worry too much about CT when getting started. :)18:49
alcabreraI found basic type theory a lot more helpful, and following that, some abstract algebra18:50
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peoplemergeI've got to get a neutron issue debugged for our developers then I'll be back here hacking marconi :)19:04
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit will be offline for about 20 minutes in order to rename some projects starting at 21:00 UTC.20:33
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is offline in order to rename some projects. ETA: 22:00.21:35
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peoplemergeanybody going to be working over the long weekend?21:50
alcabrerapeoplemerge: nah -- I might do some reading, though. :)21:53
peoplemergealcabrera: on the subject of languages is there any python materials you might recommend too?  Most of what I've found is for new programmers, not for a guy like me fluent in most everything but Python.21:55
* peoplemerge exaggerates sometimes21:56
alcabrerapeoplemerge: the best I've seen in Python land is Beazley and Jones Python Cookbook 3e:
peoplemergeahh nice21:57
peoplemergeI have a safari account. This is perfect.  Thank you21:58
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alcabrerapeoplemerge: you're welcome. :)22:01
peoplemergeThink I'll try to cram through it this weekend22:02
peoplemergeOr maybe set up dev environments at home22:02
alcabrerapeoplemerge: it's a fun one to take a little at a time. It has a lot of useful material. when I was doing python frequently, I'd come back once a week and pick up a new idea. :)22:05
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vkmcHey guys, if someone is still around, I'm having some trouble running the tests... is someone getting something alike or knows what's going on?
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openstackgerritKurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: fix: Checking whether queue exists adds latency

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