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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 16:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:00 |
| david-lyle | Hello Horizon folks | 16:00 |
| david-lyle | who's around? | 16:01 |
| jpich | Hi o/ | 16:01 |
| MaxV | hi all | 16:01 |
| enykeev | hey | 16:01 |
| lsmola | hello | 16:01 |
| tmazur | Hello! o/ | 16:01 |
| mrunge | hey folks | 16:01 |
| lsmola | I was checking openstack-meeting and waiting :-D | 16:01 |
| julim | hi all | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | I don't have any general announcements other than a reminder of the feature freeze on Feb 18, we'll dig into i-3 later | 16:02 |
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| doug-fish | Hello | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | #topic Less vs. Sass | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Less vs. Sass (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:03 | |
| MaxV | I think this is a no match | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | MaxV: no match? | 16:03 |
| mrunge | MaxV, waht do you mean? | 16:03 |
| MaxV | Sass provides much more features, | 16:03 |
| MaxV | it's easier to integrate | 16:04 |
| MaxV | the syntax is quite the same | 16:04 |
| MaxV | we do not use the feature specific to less in horizon.less | 16:04 |
| MaxV | so teh translation is easy | 16:04 |
| david-lyle | My worry is that this is a cosmetic change and skirts the real issue of needing a better CSS and JS toolchain | 16:04 |
| MaxV | and we can get out of our dead end on bootstrapV3 | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | we still ultimately need node in the toolchain at some point | 16:05 |
| MaxV | for me the real question is do we use a pythonic compiler or use the official gem | 16:05 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, /me thinks the same, I still feel trapped in the toolchain | 16:06 |
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| jpich | Are the python tools for compiling sass more mature / robust than lesscpy? | 16:06 |
| mrunge | and I'd vote against introduction of ruby etc. etc for solving the same things | 16:06 |
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| MaxV | that's why I'm against this solution ;) | 16:06 |
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| mrunge | jpich, are there python tools for sass? | 16:06 |
| mrunge | I mean really? | 16:06 |
| lblanchard | hi all | 16:07 |
| MaxV | I know it is not perfect but it's still better than node | 16:07 |
| david-lyle | storyboard has a good story for pulling in node at build time, but the story around a deployed server is still lacking | 16:07 |
| jpich | mrunge: I don't know, I think there were some mentioned in the email? The issue with bootstrap v3 was due to lesscpy so I'm trying to understand if we have a better python toolchain to deal with it if moving to sass | 16:07 |
| jcoufal_ | o/ hey all | 16:07 |
| MaxV | jpich: agree with you | 16:07 |
| jpich | but maybe I misunderstood why we want to move to sass if that's not the case | 16:08 |
| lsmola | I vote for anything that works :-) And I like Ruby, so.. :-D | 16:09 |
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| MaxV | with the separation between horizon and dashboard maybe we can use multiple languages | 16:10 |
| MaxV | and keep a clean pythonic solution where there will be no javascript nor css | 16:10 |
| lsmola | MaxV: yep | 16:11 |
| mrunge | maybe a stupid question: why do we use less or sass at all? | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | I think we will want find a way to bring node in for the JS anyway then we are no longer blocked by bootstrap etc | 16:11 |
| lsmola | MaxV: that makes sense | 16:11 |
| mrunge | if that causes us that pita? | 16:11 |
| jpomero | mrunge: +1 | 16:12 |
| lsmola | mrunge: well, CSS is old you know :-) | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: certainly nicer to write CSS in than CSS | 16:12 |
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| jcoufal_ | mrunge: pure css is the straight way to hell, less/sass makes it much much more easier to do styling | 16:12 |
| mrunge | yes, but sass and less gets translated into css. | 16:12 |
| MaxV | easier and cleaner | 16:12 |
| enykeev | david-lyle, one more time, what is the problem with node? | 16:12 |
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| mrunge | well, proposing to introduce that huge dep chain is the same... | 16:13 |
| lsmola | david-lyle: so it is either Node or SASS right? | 16:13 |
| mrunge | enykeev, no-one sane wants node on a server | 16:13 |
| MaxV | it is for development not for serving pages | 16:13 |
| mrunge | and they are still pretty good in breaking compatibility | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | mrunge, but that is current web development | 16:13 |
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| mrunge | david-lyle, yes. but that doesn't mean, I have to like it... | 16:14 |
| lsmola | hehe | 16:14 |
| david-lyle | mrunge agreed, but it may not be a matter of want | 16:14 |
| enykeev | so, it's basically about who likes what? =) | 16:14 |
| jcoufal_ | well... | 16:15 |
| david-lyle | enykeev, supporting in a stable distribution is the main concern | 16:15 |
| MaxV | with node we can get out of selenium which is not a real open source solution | 16:15 |
| *** jcoufal_ is now known as jcoufal | 16:15 | |
| MaxV | so in another hand ... | 16:15 |
| mrunge | MaxV, honestly? I don't see that right now | 16:16 |
| MaxV | yeah | 16:16 |
| * jpich will be bringing more Selenium in the integration tests | 16:16 | |
| MaxV | I have a POC for this | 16:16 |
| mrunge | MaxV, does your poc render pages? | 16:16 |
| jcoufal | but I think MaxV pointed out the best reasons for Sass anyway | 16:16 |
| MaxV | webdriver + phantomjs + protractor (angular testing framework) | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | lsmola: I don't think they are mutually exclusive, but we seem to be sidestepping the larger issue by moving to Sass | 16:16 |
| * lsmola wrote one selenium test | 16:16 | |
| MaxV | mrunge: phantomjs allows you to make screenshots | 16:17 |
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| MaxV | in an automatic way | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | and trying to deliver a stable release makes me hessitant to keep replacing all of the core technologies we build on | 16:17 |
| MaxV | and I think there is a binding in protractor | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | and anyone that has extended Horizon will have to move to Sass, which is a burden | 16:17 |
| mrunge | MaxV, what about the webdriver? is that such a bundle like in selenium? | 16:18 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: when do you expect the node.js appear again? | 16:18 |
| mrunge | if yes, it's basically the same pain | 16:18 |
| MaxV | mrunge: I have to check but I think it's a specification to allow remote connection to a browser | 16:18 |
| MaxV | mrunge: It's not a software | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | jcoufal, I think if when we split out the JS and CSS, around then | 16:19 |
| mrunge | MaxV, yes, and that part of selenium is the bundled binary in selenium | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | we could make it a build time only dependency and require CSS additions be written in CSS only | 16:19 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: I just hope it is soon enough for us to update to Bootstrap 3 and not to be running the old version for the whole next release cycle | 16:19 |
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| MaxV | mrunge: let me take some additionnal informations | 16:19 |
| mrunge | MaxV, agreed. Let's look at that e.g tomorrow in the morning | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | and deliver the compiled LESS along with the source in the horizon-web package | 16:20 |
| mrunge | sigh, sorry guys, I need to leave right now. See you later. | 16:21 |
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| jcoufal | david-lyle: then you will actually force everybody with extensions to Horizon to do it the same way... | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | or they can choose to use put node on their servers | 16:22 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: well I understand the concern of switching to sass less then month before feature freeze | 16:22 |
| jcoufal | so what if we bring this issue to the summit and discuss it properly there? | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | I think this is a much larger issue than we can solve right here, but my concern is moving to sass is not a real solution | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | just a bandaid | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | I think the summit is the correct place to work through this | 16:23 |
| jcoufal | +1 for summit discussion | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | Regardless, I would like to hold off on Sass until post Icehouse, if we want to move that way | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | we are 7 days from feature freeze | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | #topic JavaScript requirements | 16:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "JavaScript requirements (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:25 | |
| MaxV | mrunge is no longer present but it concerns the bundling of javascript libraries in Horizon | 16:26 |
| MaxV | the idea is to bundle javascript in django packages | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | I think the summary here is to deliver the JS in external python packages of JS rather than static copies of the JS with Horizon | 16:27 |
| MaxV | like this one https://bitbucket.org/massimilianoravelli/django-jquery | 16:27 |
| MaxV | maybe a blueprint can be written | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | I think this makes sense | 16:28 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle - that's a great goal. How does the JS get into python packages? Do we need JS library authors to contribute them there? | 16:29 |
| MaxV | the idea is to maintain our packages | 16:29 |
| tmazur | MaxV, there is one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/remove-javascript-bundling | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | I think we'll need to pin versions and qualify version updates before bumping the upper bounds | 16:29 |
| MaxV | it is just changing the js and make a flag | 16:29 |
| MaxV | so it is easy to maintain | 16:30 |
| doug-fish | so we can package the external js into python packages? | 16:30 |
| MaxV | yes | 16:30 |
| doug-fish | okay got it. Thx! | 16:30 |
| MaxV | with django binding | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | several already exist | 16:30 |
| lcheng_ | MaxV: so only the external JS will move to that JS package? | 16:30 |
| MaxV | yes | 16:30 |
| tmazur | david-lyle, which ones? | 16:30 |
| MaxV | libraries | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | external package per library | 16:31 |
| jpich | Sounds good to me, manage dependencies more clearly, like for our python deps | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | we are not necessarily the maintainers either | 16:31 |
| lcheng_ | MaxV: cool, I like that. | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | hopefully we are not | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | then the Horizon specific JS and CSS will end up in a package that we do maintain | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | but that would not bundle jquery, angularjs, etc | 16:32 |
| MaxV | david-lyle: some exists but if we can have the control of the versions and avoid third part code | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | MaxV | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | sure | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | I think this is a great goal to work toward | 16:32 |
| MaxV | it is not really different than changing js by hand in the folder | 16:33 |
| MaxV | but it's cleaner | 16:33 |
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| MaxV | much cleaner :) | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | MaxV agreed | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | I don't see a downside | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | let's make it happen | 16:33 |
| enykeev | how should we deal with outdated packages like Angular? | 16:34 |
| lcheng_ | +1 on moving to external JS package | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | enykeev? outdated how? our version | 16:34 |
| MaxV | outdated? | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | version = static copy | 16:34 |
| MaxV | we just have to make a flag | 16:34 |
| enykeev | i mean like https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-angularjs/1.0.2 from BP | 16:35 |
| MaxV | we will maitain our package | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | the package should be published to pypi and versioned as it is updated | 16:35 |
| MaxV | ^ | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | we can then pin the version and this should make validating updates a lot easier | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | anyone opposed? | 16:37 |
| doug-fish | Is this something we are going to attempt for icehouse? | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | I think we need to wait for Juno, just for stability | 16:37 |
| doug-fish | super. | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | there is some infrastructure set up, if we are going to publish these packages via the openstack bild infra | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | the plus side of that is some things are automated | 16:38 |
| lsmola | +1 to external JS package | 16:38 |
| doug-fish | Doing it in icehouse seemed risky to me. I was just thinking through any concerns I might have about it. Seems like a great idea. | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | like all tags get published | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | #topic Icehouse-3 | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse-3 (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:39 | |
| david-lyle | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | Lots of blueprints have code that need review | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | I think the Heat items are actually up for review as well | 16:40 |
| absubram | and bug fixes too :p | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | just not put in the correct stat | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | e | 16:41 |
| absubram | but yes.. will help out reviews | 16:41 |
| absubram | I have one of my own out and some more in the line :) | 16:41 |
| david-lyle | I've been working on django 1.6, but we have about 30 broken tests when running against 1.6 | 16:41 |
| absubram | thanks for the quick review and approve yesterday! | 16:41 |
| david-lyle | so I have some more work to do there | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | so there will be several small changes there | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | any concerns re: i-3 targets? | 16:43 |
| lsmola | david-lyle: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/project-overview-page-ceilometer can be moved out | 16:43 |
| lcheng_ | david-lyle: aside from test failing, any other issues running django 1.6? | 16:43 |
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| lsmola | david-lyle: the ceilometer work is targeted to I3, but it probably won't be in 7 days, so I will have no time to implement it here | 16:44 |
| david-lyle | lsmola: moved | 16:44 |
| david-lyle | lcheng_: I haven't actually made it that far yet :o | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | just ran tests and started scrambling | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | as that should really make icehouse | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | any other items for i-3? | 16:46 |
| lcheng_ | david-lyle: okay :-) Let me know if you need on that. | 16:46 |
| tshirtman | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/launch-instance-ux-enhancement | 16:46 |
| tshirtman | we'd like to have feedback or approval for this bp, if possible | 16:47 |
| lsmola | david-lyle: this sits there for a while and it should be ready https://review.openstack.org/#/c/64448/ | 16:47 |
| jomara | david-lyle: sorry, did i screw up the blueprint status on some of the heat items? | 16:47 |
| jomara | david-lyle: there are 3 up for review right now | 16:47 |
| jpich | Just make sure the blueprint status matches reality | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | tshritman: I'll take a look. Certainly any improvement is needed | 16:49 |
| lcheng_ | david-lyle: I got the heat rbac up for review. I see a couple of heat patches that will be impacted (need to add rbac stuff as well). Would be nice if we can get the heat rbac reviewed soon, so that the pending heat patches can be updated to include rbac too. | 16:49 |
| jomara | jpich: i marked the bps as "needs review" | 16:49 |
| jpich | jomara: sounds correct to me :) | 16:49 |
| lcheng_ | jomara: the heat patches might be yours :-) | 16:49 |
| absubram | so regarding the BP I brought up last week - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/neutron-subnet-mode-support | 16:49 |
| absubram | I've updated the whiteboard and work items | 16:49 |
| david-lyle | lcheng_, good point, we just need to track what order they merge | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | and make the appropriate changes | 16:50 |
| tshirtman | david-lyle: thanks, the work that have been done on wizard and that is being done on angular is helpful for this bp, and we are working on a test implementation on our side, so any feedback is useful :) | 16:50 |
| absubram | the neutron code is still in review.. but on the Horizon side it really should be a pretty simple and straightforward implementation | 16:50 |
| lcheng_ | jomara: I'll review the pending heat patches today, and add notes as to what to put for the rbac stuff. | 16:50 |
| absubram | the subnet workflows needs to be updated to include two new IPv6 fields | 16:50 |
| jomara | lcheng_: thanks! | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | absubram: may warrant a FFE, but let's see how fast the neutron changes get in | 16:51 |
| doug-fish | FFE? | 16:52 |
| absubram | david-lyle: ok.. what's FFE? I'm proceeding to implement and test in my private setup with the neutron code.. so that I can be ready on my end as soon as neutron is taken carte of | 16:52 |
| jpich | doug-fish: Feature Freeze Exception | 16:52 |
| doug-fish | thx! | 16:52 |
| absubram | jpich: thanks! | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:53 | |
| david-lyle | not a lot of time left, what else do people want to discuss | 16:53 |
| jpich | Maybe a general clarification on dates since it can get confusing: for Icehouse, code proposal deadline is Feb 18th (code for a blueprint should be up for review on gerrit), Feature Freeze is March 4th (no more blueprints approved unless exception explicitly granted) and bugs fixes are welcome until the first RC on March 27th ( https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule ) | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | jpich: thanks | 16:54 |
| MaxV | currently working on reimplementing all the js libraries in angular, I will repatch jasmine testing for jasmine 2.0 | 16:55 |
| vkmc | Hi all, I'm applying as a student to GSoC and I'm willing to work on a feature for Horizon | 16:55 |
| vkmc | I'm looking for mentorship | 16:55 |
| jomara | jpich: what happens to code for blueprints approved between feb18 and mar4? | 16:55 |
| vkmc | If someone is able to, please let me know | 16:55 |
| MaxV | but I will not maitain old testing | 16:55 |
| david-lyle | vkmc: do you have a link to the requirements? | 16:55 |
| jpich | jomara: If the code was up on gerrit before the 18th, should be good, there should be plenty of times for reviews | 16:56 |
| jomara | jpich: oh, so its for when theres already code but no blueprint? | 16:56 |
| vkmc | This is one the features I had in mind https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/improve-user-feedback-and-error-handling, I've seen a lot of bugs related to it | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | jomara: the first freeze is an attempt to stabilize for the end of cycle gate mess | 16:57 |
| jpich | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GSoC2014 - note that OpenStack is applying as an organisation but we haven't been accepted into GSoC yet (and don't know if we will, our application was declined twice before) | 16:57 |
| vkmc | And, about GSoC requirements, we are gathering all the information here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GSoC2014 | 16:57 |
| vkmc | Thanks jpich | 16:57 |
| jpich | jomara: If the blueprint is targeted to icehouse-3 but there is no sign of the code before the 18th, the blueprint will be moved to Juno and the code won't be approved for this cycle | 16:58 |
| jpich | of course there's always some wiggle room / flexibility but that's the idea | 16:58 |
| jomara | gotcha | 16:58 |
| absubram | yeah.. good to know.. :) | 16:58 |
| jpich | ...that's my understanding anyhow :) | 16:59 |
| david-lyle | jpich: mine too :P | 17:00 |
| jpich | I guess I should have said "no more code for blueprints (as in, no more features) approved in gerrit", sorry for adding to the confusion when I was hoping to reduce it | 17:00 |
| lsmola | jpich: mrunge just told me today we were accepted | 17:00 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Good to know :P | 17:00 |
| lsmola | jpich: we as the Openstack | 17:00 |
| david-lyle | lsmola: excellent | 17:00 |
| jpich | lsmola: The deadline for organisations to apply is later this week, I don't think Google has annoucned anything yet | 17:00 |
| jpich | People have volunteered to admin just last week | 17:01 |
| vkmc | lsmola, The deadline for organizations to apply is Feb 14, currently we don't know if we will get accepted | 17:01 |
| * david-lyle watching tennis, back and forth | 17:01 | |
| lsmola | jpich: hm ok :-) | 17:01 |
| jpich | Accepted list will be announced on the 24th - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014 | 17:01 |
| lsmola | jpich: he was looking for the mentor, telling me we was accepted :-), now I am confuse | 17:02 |
| david-lyle | Looks like we're over time. Thanks everyone! Let's review the code that's up, and get the rest up for review. Have a great week! | 17:02 |
| vkmc | lsmola, Probably he misunderstood | 17:02 |
| jomara | thanks david-lyle | 17:02 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free for all (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 17:02 | |
| lsmola | jpich: maybe he meant we were accepted in one of the parallel Universes? | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 17:02:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| vkmc | Thanks david-lyle | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-02-11-16.00.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-02-11-16.00.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-02-11-16.00.log.html | 17:02 |
| lblanchard | thanks all! | 17:02 |
| absubram | thanks all! | 17:02 |
| jpich | Reviews, reviews. Thanks everyone! | 17:02 |
| tshirtman | thanks! | 17:02 |
| vkmc | And all o/ | 17:02 |
| lcheng_ | thanks, bye everyone! | 17:02 |
| lsmola | that was fast today :-) thanks everybody | 17:03 |
| absubram | yes please.. reviews all :p | 17:03 |
| enykeev | thanks | 17:03 |
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| tmazur | Thanks all! | 17:03 |
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