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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 18 16:02:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | Hello everyone | 16:02 |
| mrunge | o/ | 16:02 |
| doug-fish | hello | 16:02 |
| lblanchard | hi all | 16:02 |
| tmazur | hello o/ | 16:02 |
| aleParedes | Hello! | 16:02 |
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| amotoki | hi, good night | 16:03 |
| MaxV | hi! | 16:03 |
| absubram | hi all | 16:03 |
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| david-lyle | Let's dive in | 16:04 |
| david-lyle | #topic Icehouse RC1 | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse RC1 (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:04 | |
| david-lyle | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 16:04 |
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| david-lyle | so many of you may be getting emails that your bug was moved from rc1 to next | 16:04 |
| david-lyle | this does not mean that it can't go into RC1, it merely means that we can cut RC1 without it | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | The distinction was pointed out to me this morning | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | so I will continue to prune the bugs down to items that are blockers to cutting the RC1 branch | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | questions on that part? | 16:06 |
| amotoki | We have two unassinged bugs. | 16:06 |
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| david-lyle | yes those are also bad :) | 16:06 |
| amotoki | I can take the fist one. it is related to neutronclient. | 16:06 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle - I think the mox import bug that I've been bothing people about should be on that list too | 16:07 |
| doug-fish | other than mentioning it to you know how do we have that discussion? | 16:07 |
| david-lyle | can you post a link? | 16:07 |
| doug-fish | https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1288245 | 16:08 |
| amotoki | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79378/ | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | I think that should be in RC1 | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | I added it | 16:09 |
| doug-fish | thx | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | anything else not on the RC1 list that people feel is essential? | 16:09 |
| amotoki | for bug 1292937, can anyone familiar with ceilometer take a look at it? | 16:10 |
| amotoki | I am not sure it is visible or not. | 16:10 |
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| david-lyle | I assigned someone to take a look | 16:11 |
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| david-lyle | He's been working on ceilometer | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | in Horizon | 16:11 |
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| david-lyle | I have on item in django-openstack-auth that I need to add. So, I've been pushing to move our default keystone API version to v3. We merge a patch in django_openstack_auth, turns out that although keystone v2 is deprecated, we can't use a v3 token to do anything other than identity management in Horizon | 16:13 |
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| david-lyle | so I'm going to move the default back to v2 for icehouse and we need to address broader support at the summit | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | I'm tempted to go so far as to disable v3 altogether in Horizon, but I think there may be some groups out there that have hacks in place to make v2 and v3 work | 16:14 |
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| david-lyle | so I'm going to leave it in, and add documentation for the problem | 16:15 |
| david-lyle | other ideas around that? | 16:15 |
| jthopkin | Will this disable the ability for a user to change their own password? V3 was required for that right? | 16:15 |
| david-lyle | I'd have to check that v3 is required, but if so then yes | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | v3 tokens used to work through a bug in keystoneclient which has since been closed, hence the belief that all was well | 16:16 |
| mrunge | afaik, the own password thing works only on v2 | 16:17 |
| mrunge | because such a support was forgotten or left out of keystone, but I may be wrong here | 16:17 |
| lcheng | agree on mrunge, it was the other way around. | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | change own password? | 16:18 |
| lcheng | there is a patch on-going to add to add the change password on keystone v3 in keystoneclient | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | I don't think that's supported in either unless you are admin | 16:18 |
| lcheng | change own password | 16:18 |
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| lcheng | david-lyle: yes | 16:19 |
| lcheng | what you said :-) | 16:19 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, it was supported, but led to the cool situation, that you didn't had to provide your old password. keystone didnd't check, if your old password matched | 16:19 |
| mrunge | so we (I) disabled that *feature* in horizon in that condition. | 16:20 |
| mrunge | need to check, if it was v2 or v3 | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | mrunge for v3 though, correct? | 16:21 |
| mrunge | just one. | 16:21 |
| mrunge | let me check | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | looking at code, v2 may support user updating password, was looking at wrong api call before | 16:21 |
| mrunge | you can only set your password on v2 | 16:22 |
| mrunge | https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/openstack_dashboard/dashboards/settings/password/panel.py | 16:22 |
| mrunge | l.31 | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | jthopkin: there we go | 16:22 |
| jthopkin | awesome, thanks all | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | Any other issues regarding RC1? | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | We did merge 4 of the 6 FFE we had, so that's great | 16:24 |
| absubram | :) | 16:24 |
| mrunge | what are we doing about the mox thing? | 16:24 |
| absubram | the IPv6 neutron side got merged late last night.. but it essentially added only the attributes.. but they don't do anything.. so good that we moved the Horizon BP to J | 16:25 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: I agree that we should not depend on mox in a non-dev situation | 16:25 |
| david-lyle | I added it to RC1 | 16:25 |
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| david-lyle | amotoki: do you have anything you want to comment on regarding translation and string freeze? | 16:25 |
| amotoki | david-lyle: I18N need to know the planned date of RC1 . | 16:26 |
| amotoki | I would like to propose the first import before RC1 but i am not sure when it is better to do. | 16:26 |
| david-lyle | amotoki: hmm, I don't know a date, I would imagine we have at least a week | 16:27 |
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| david-lyle | I'll work on coming up with a better date | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | or a date ;) | 16:27 |
| amotoki | thanks. the first milestone in i18n team is set to Mar 24 but someone needs more time. | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | ok, thanks | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | #topic Design Summit Session Topics | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit Session Topics (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:29 | |
| david-lyle | http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | So only two topics so far | 16:29 |
| jthopkin | OK, Jacki and I have some ideas. I'll get those into there as well | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | I have a couple to add: "Node toolchain for development" and "Approach for localized API error messages/logging" | 16:31 |
| mrunge | I'd have some ideas in the queue | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | revisiting the project split might be worth rehashing a bit | 16:31 |
| amotoki | We have many gaps in CLI and Horizon. IMO we need to list the gaps and prioritize them in Juno. It is not a session proposal but we need to do it as a project. | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | sure | 16:32 |
| mrunge | better error reporting, separate dashboard, and something like messaging support through marconi would be great | 16:32 |
| tmazur | amotoki, great idea! | 16:32 |
| mrunge | amotoki, yes, and that should be a session | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | My other big topic is "A Launch Instance that makes sense/works" | 16:32 |
| mrunge | paper and pencil session | 16:32 |
| lblanchard | amotoki: +1 I've heard users say they don't use Horizon since they have to switch back and forth to CLI…they say "May as well just stick with CLI for now." | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | amotoki +1 | 16:33 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: :) We have a lot of feedback from the usability tests on that flow…it will probably be a big topic in the session I proposed too…maybe if you propose one it can be a deeper dive into the code discussion? | 16:33 |
| mrunge | ah, and support many users? it seems keystone got support for limiting user lists | 16:34 |
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| mrunge | something like paging support | 16:34 |
| jthopkin | lblanchard: A big request I have heard and we've provided some feedback on is the ability to better do capacity management. We've been providing feedback to some of the work lblanchard is doing | 16:34 |
| MaxV | david-lyle: We are currently working on an implementation of http://ask-openstackux.rhcloud.com/question/12/enhance-the-selection-of-a-flavor-and-an-image/ | 16:34 |
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| david-lyle | jthopkin: capacity as in number of controllers? | 16:35 |
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| david-lyle | quotas, ? | 16:35 |
| lblanchard | MaxV: It would be awesome if we could track down some users at summit and do some user testing of the work you've done so far | 16:35 |
| jthopkin | david-lyle: partially but not controllers specifically | 16:35 |
| jthopkin | i.e. - who is using all the resources in my cloud and how much hardware will I need in the future | 16:35 |
| MaxV | lblanchard: a patch will be released in a few weeks | 16:35 |
| amotoki | what does "capacity management" mean? It may be a part of tuskar-ui. | 16:36 |
| mrunge | sounds like heat | 16:36 |
| jthopkin | there's two pieces to it, but it is better understanding how your cloud is being used | 16:36 |
| lblanchard | MaxV: awesome | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | MaxV: I'll take a look, and thanks | 16:36 |
| jthopkin | the ceilometer visualization gives some of that, but it needs to be better implemented | 16:36 |
| lblanchard | jthopkin: more on the monitoring side of things, right? | 16:36 |
| jthopkin | yes | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | problem is OpenStack doesn't have a monitoring solution today | 16:37 |
| lblanchard | mrunge: really…a better way of visualizing how resources are used | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | ceilometer is only part of the solution | 16:37 |
| jthopkin | david-lyle: correct, this wouldn't just be about monitoring (that would be further down the road). More about how my resources are being used and who is using them | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | sure | 16:38 |
| jthopkin | http://ask-openstackux.rhcloud.com/question/132/improvements-to-horizon-admin-overview/ | 16:38 |
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| jthopkin | that is the work lblanchard has been doing and jackibauer has also proposed some alternate concepts | 16:38 |
| absubram | we are internally doing something similar too.. to monitor the usage of the hardware resources.. still working on development.. was going to being it up at the summit | 16:39 |
| absubram | as amotoki mentioned.. wasn't sure if it is already addressed in Tuskar? | 16:39 |
| absubram | but would love to learn more about how you guys went about it jthopkin :) | 16:39 |
| lblanchard | jthopkin: are the other concepts somewhere to review? | 16:39 |
| jthopkin | lblanchard: yes, Jacki added them in the comments. I'll post them here too. One sec | 16:40 |
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| jthopkin | http://tvpnk4.axshare.com/#p=admin_overview | 16:40 |
| lblanchard | jthopkin: thanks | 16:40 |
| jthopkin | http://tvpnk4.axshare.com/#p=admin_overview_-_text | 16:40 |
| jthopkin | http://tvpnk4.axshare.com/#p=user_overview | 16:40 |
| jthopkin | http://tvpnk4.axshare.com/#p=user_overview_-_text | 16:40 |
| jthopkin | We'll need to rework them a bit to conform to the Horizon design pattern though | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | seems like we have much to talk about :) | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | anyway, submit your session ideas | 16:42 |
| lblanchard | jthopkin: very nice though! Thanks for sharing :) | 16:42 |
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| amotoki | It looks great. Doesn't ceilometer provide such information? If it provides them, all works should be in Horizon side. | 16:42 |
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| jthopkin | amotoki: I believe it does, but I'm working on identifying any gaps | 16:42 |
| MaxV | mrunge: what is the status of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/separate-horizon-from-dashboard? | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | I think we're here anyway. | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open Discussion | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:43 | |
| amotoki | In the dev list, we heard muranodashboard needs openstack_dashboard release to PyPI. | 16:44 |
| amotoki | Can we push the release to PyPI or should we wait for splitting horizon and dashboard? | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | I think the idea was to autorelease to pypi as a wheel, I'll look into where that is at, otherwise we could probably release it. | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | I think the stance before was not to release any of the openstack services to PyPi | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | mostly because just giving someone a nova .tar.gz isn't enough | 16:47 |
| amotoki | I see. only client libs are released to PyPI. | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | Horizon may be a little different in that respect | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | Something about wheels was supposed to change that policy | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | let me follow up | 16:48 |
| amotoki | I think tarball should work for the case murano team asked. | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | yes, Horizon is a simpler case for sure | 16:48 |
| absubram | amotoki: saw your email response to Radomir and me.. regarding the ip_version in the EditSubnet class.. thanks.. will respond to the thread.. we won't be able to do away with it because we need it for the IPv6 identification and corresponding v6 fields.. | 16:52 |
| amotoki | absubram: thanks for raising it. Such cleanup will be appreciated :) | 16:53 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: Should we add Horizon to this list? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ATL-ops-dedicated-design-summit-sessions | 16:53 |
| * david-lyle reading | 16:54 | |
| absubram | glad to help :) | 16:54 |
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| david-lyle | lblanchard: absolutely | 16:55 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: cool, I will add | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | thanks | 16:57 |
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| absubram | umm just a review request for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76653/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78708/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76787/ please :) | 16:57 |
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| amotoki | regarding string freeze, it is just a soft freeze. Please keep on your eyes if a patch changes strings much or not. I believe small changes does not matter. | 16:59 |
| absubram | mrunge: and others (amotoki) thanks for the approval earlier this morning for the head of my dependency list!.. appreciate it | 17:00 |
| absubram | as you've mentioned.. the above reviews I have do have small string changes.. | 17:00 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone! Have a great week. | 17:00 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 18 17:00:53 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-18-16.02.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-18-16.02.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-18-16.02.log.html | 17:00 |
| absubram | thanks! | 17:01 |
| amotoki | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| lblanchard | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| tmazur | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| absubram | have a good week all!.. | 17:01 |
| lcheng | thanks all! | 17:01 |
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| aleParedes | bye! | 17:04 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 18 19:00:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| briancurtin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK <- agenda | 19:01 |
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| briancurtin | May as well start with roll call and let everyone file in. Can everyone here for the python-openstacksdk meeting state their name and affiliation? | 19:01 |
| edleafe | Ed Leafe, Rackspace | 19:02 |
| wchrisj_ | Chris Johnson, HP | 19:02 |
| dtroyer | Dean TRoyer, Nebula | 19:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Alex Gaynor (affiliations: Rackspace, many many others, avialable upon request, lol) | 19:02 |
| bknudson | Brant Knudson, IBM | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | Brian Curtin, Rackspace | 19:02 |
| jamielennox | Jamie Lennox, Red Hat | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | so i guess the first thing is Alex_Gaynor's review | 19:03 |
| mfer | Matt Farina, HP | 19:03 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79435/ | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79435/ (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:03 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | Want me to talk about teh current status of it? | 19:04 |
| briancurtin | Alex_Gaynor: sure, go ahead | 19:04 |
| briancurtin | i guess the ultimate goal here would be to figure out what the next steps are | 19:05 |
| Alex_Gaynor | So, I think the code is basically don-ish, which is to say I have no more TODOs, and I think I've responde to every review item. It's blocked on requirements integration with the CI stuff. | 19:05 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'm working on getting that unblocked today with the infra/config repos/folks. | 19:05 |
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| briancurtin | i agree that it seems to be done-ish. i got beat to a lot of my comments, so i haven't had any specific input on the reviews, but will give it another look | 19:06 |
| bknudson | endpoints is going to have a function for every type of openstack request? | 19:06 |
| bknudson | actually a class | 19:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I think we may eventually find patterns to make that even simpler, but for now, yeah | 19:07 |
| bknudson | does this require a versioned endpoint? i.e., http://localhost:5000/v2.0 ? | 19:07 |
| edleafe | So are we planning on having permutations for every combination of auth? Methods like 'CreateIdentityV2UsernamePasswordTokenRequest' seem like they would lead to copy/paste hell | 19:08 |
| jamielennox | given the early stage we are currently at i'm fine with merging reviews like this until we get to the point we figure out what we need to improve on, there are no compatability issues to deal with yet | 19:09 |
| wchrisj_ | Alex_Graynor: where does discovery fit into this approach (endpoints, versioning, etc.)? | 19:10 |
| wchrisj_ | Alex_Gaynor: ^^ | 19:10 |
| Alex_Gaynor | You're talking about integration with the srvice catalog, or discovery of the properties of teh auth endpiont? | 19:10 |
| wchrisj_ | including api version, yes. | 19:10 |
| wchrisj_ | that would cut down on those permutations dramatically | 19:11 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'm not sure what the best pattern for that is, I think it's by composing what's in that PR though. | 19:11 |
| wchrisj_ | Have you looked at what jamielennox: has done around that? | 19:11 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I looked through some of the keystoneclient stuff, yes. | 19:12 |
| jamielennox | (there is a review up now to make keystoneclient discovery a bit more sane and useful) | 19:12 |
| briancurtin | edleafe: can we just have IdentityV2 and have it accept user, pass, token, fancy handshake, whatever, and construct an appropriate request with what's given? | 19:13 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: I would certainly prefer that approach | 19:13 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I think it makes sense to compose that on top of what's there, rather than putting it all into one class. | 19:13 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: that can work for v2 because it's largely frozen but it won't extend to v3 | 19:13 |
| wchrisj_ | I'm definitely arguing against putting it all on one class - especially across versions (Identity v2 vs v3), etc. | 19:14 |
| briancurtin | Alex_Gaynor: true | 19:14 |
| briancurtin | and jamielennox thanks for the insight | 19:14 |
| wchrisj_ | ... actually not arguing ;-) | 19:15 |
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| bknudson | we'll need a CreateIdentityV2UsernamePasswordScopedTokenRequest, too | 19:16 |
| bknudson | to get a token scoped to a project | 19:16 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: that can't be a parameter? | 19:17 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: it could be | 19:17 |
| bknudson | actually, I'd expect this unscoped token request wouldn't include a catalog? | 19:18 |
| mfer | if the design ends up with methods like that we might want to re-think the approach for developer experience | 19:18 |
| mfer | i can't imagine using a method like that | 19:18 |
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| bknudson | mfer: what's the best method you can imagine? | 19:18 |
| briancurtin | mfer: well i think you'd use a higher-level approach to it, like the above mentioned IdentityV2 that takes a bunch of parameters (or something like that) | 19:19 |
| edleafe | Or a config setting | 19:19 |
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| edleafe | A user isn't going to be switching between auth methods all that often | 19:20 |
| mfer | i'd likely have an identityv2 object. then i'd auth ot using a username and password. | 19:20 |
| mfer | the goal is to create an sdk for application developers. not to reflect what the API does | 19:20 |
| edleafe | mfer +1 | 19:20 |
| briancurtin | as long as calling IdentityV2(username="briancurtin", password="lol") gets me auth'ed properly, i'm good | 19:20 |
| Alex_Gaynor | you probably need an auth_url | 19:21 |
| Alex_Gaynor | but yeah, IdentityV2 is a trivial composition | 19:21 |
| mfer | you might want something like IdentityV2(endpoint) | 19:21 |
| mfer | then from that object you auth | 19:21 |
| edleafe | Generally things like auth_url, identity version/type, etc., are best left for config settings | 19:21 |
| mfer | authenticate(username="briancurtin", password="lol") | 19:22 |
| edleafe | The SDK should figure out how to auth based on how it's configured | 19:22 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Sorry, what config are you talking abotu ed? | 19:22 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: mixing config files and libraries is tricky - you will still need to expose everything via regular optoins | 19:22 |
| mfer | edleafe this isn't an app. config should be managed by the app and passed in | 19:22 |
| briancurtin | yep | 19:22 |
| edleafe | Alex_Gaynor: env vars, for one | 19:22 |
| bknudson | maybe you config the library -- openstack.config(auth_endpoint='http://localhost:35357', ...) | 19:23 |
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| edleafe | jamielennox: everything should be passable, but default to config if not otherwise specified | 19:23 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: no, you are definetly mixing the responsibilities of a library vs the application | 19:23 |
| mfer | edleafe the SDK should not look for env variables. that makes too many assumptions about the app using it. this is a library not an application | 19:23 |
| edleafe | that's just one option | 19:24 |
| bknudson | then token, service_catalog = openstack.authenticate(username='user1', password='user1pwd') | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | mfer: quick jump-back, but yes on authenticate(...) as a high-level/end-user approach to be built on top of this IdentityV2BlahBlahBlah | 19:24 |
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| edleafe | there are many ways to set a consistent set of settings | 19:24 |
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| mfer | edleafe across every possible application using an SDK (most of which you can't imagine) on every platform python runs? | 19:25 |
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| mfer | edleafe this is seaparation of concerns. app config is not hte concern of the sdk | 19:25 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: it's always possible to do context like objects that can be loaded in various ways - have to see what the api looks like to see how they would work | 19:25 |
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| edleafe | jamielennox: yes. The point is that we should make it simple for the developer | 19:26 |
| briancurtin | simple for the developer is "pass a URL in" | 19:27 |
| wchrisj_ | agreed | 19:27 |
| mfer | edleafe simple for a developer to do what? for example, one use case is to authenticate to two different openstack services and copy objects from one to another. | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | if we get into config files, config files not existing, confing files in the wrong place, wrong line endings, wrong encoding, wrong configuration, it's not going to be great | 19:27 |
| wchrisj_ | use case: web app developer | 19:27 |
| edleafe | mfer: heh, I do that all the time now ;-) | 19:28 |
| edleafe | but yeah, there will be places where it won't work | 19:28 |
| mfer | this is an SDK/library and not an application. as it was said earlier... separation of concerns | 19:29 |
| edleafe | I'm thinking about the 80-90% of use cases where it will and we will be making the developer's life simpler | 19:29 |
| mfer | storing the config is not the concern of this | 19:29 |
| jamielennox | there is advantage to providing standard ways of loading things, ie read this oslo.config file and load up the appropriate auth plugin - however that's a helper function and a later issue | 19:29 |
| mfer | your low level functionality shouldn't assume that | 19:30 |
| mfer | that's helper stuff | 19:30 |
| jamielennox | mfer: right | 19:30 |
| edleafe | I'm not trying to settle how configs might be persisted and read in - just making the point that requiring devs to call methods like 'CreateIdentityV2UsernamePasswordTokenRequest()' is not ideal | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | they're not going to have to | 19:30 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: i understand that to be an endpoint.py thing and not exposed to the user | 19:30 |
| mfer | it's a poor developer experience | 19:30 |
| bknudson | seems like we don't need to write CreateIdentityV2UsernamePasswordTokenRequest first... let's write/mock the ideal interface. | 19:31 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: then requiring devs to know to create an instance of 'IdentityV2UsernamePasswordAuth' is equally unfriendly | 19:31 |
| briancurtin | they're not going to have to | 19:31 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: what will they be doing, then? | 19:32 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: depends how you cut it up that equivalent in keystoenclient is keystoneclient.auth.identity.v2.Password - just as long a name but importable in a useful way | 19:32 |
| briancurtin | edleafe: openstack.authenticate(username="edleafe", password="lol") | 19:33 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: then I missed how that call maps to that class | 19:33 |
| briancurtin | something like that. a higher-level end-user abstraction that allows them to give the details that they have, which will construct the request that they need | 19:33 |
| briancurtin | edleafe: well if you call openstack.authenticate(smokesignal="lkajsldfkjasldkfj"), it'll create an auth object based on smoke signals | 19:34 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: this will quickly become a problem if we are basing authentication upon which parameters are required | 19:34 |
| bknudson | we'll need a factory function based on the arguments... username="edleafe", password="lol" -> IdentityV2UsernamePassword, smokesignal="lkajsldfkjasldkfj" -> IdentityV2SmokeSignal | 19:35 |
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| wchrisj_ | as far as I know, there are only two ways to authenticate - username/password, with an optional tenant, and re-authing with a token | 19:36 |
| wchrisj_ | yes/no? | 19:36 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: I was just commenting on the code that has been submitted. I didn't see anything about the sort of interface you're talking about | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | that is what we have been talking about | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: relying on parameters is still a bad way to go - if you are passing the params you know what you want anyway so i think the plugin approach is better | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | wchrisj_: for v2 yes. for v3 that + oauth, kerberos soon and a bunch more to come | 19:37 |
| wchrisj_ | So for v2, I'd suggest we do the simplest thing that works | 19:38 |
| wchrisj_ | and lets learn from that when we build Identity v3 | 19:38 |
| bknudson | v3 has username and password, too | 19:39 |
| wchrisj_ | yep | 19:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | There's also proprietary extension nonsense, which should be usable, even if they aren't included in openstacksdk | 19:39 |
| wchrisj_ | does the proprietary extension nonsense have anything to do with auth? | 19:40 |
| jamielennox | Alex_Gaynor: right i see at least the combination of username+password parameters could fit multiple plugins in future | 19:40 |
| edleafe | wchrisj_: yes, since Rackspace still uses a proprietary auth | 19:41 |
| jamielennox | and if you need to specify my_proprietary_username then you may as well call the plugin because you know what you want | 19:41 |
| wchrisj_ | isn't that Rackspace auth specific to 1.0 endpoints? | 19:41 |
| dolphm | the identity service is basically an abstraction layer over existing, proprietary auth systems -- but the way users expect to authenticate varies wildly from deployment to deployment | 19:42 |
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| dolphm | so the UX needs to be entirely tailorable to any given deployment ... i don't think openstacksdk should tackle much more than the base case (username + password) and pluggability | 19:42 |
| wchrisj_ | dolphm: +1 | 19:43 |
| dtroyer | dolphm: +1 | 19:43 |
| dolphm | even token-based auth strikes me as out of scope for openstacksdk | 19:43 |
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| dtroyer | dolphm: at the high-level api, agreed…at the low-level, there needs to be a way to inject it | 19:44 |
| dolphm | dtroyer: right, i'm more concerned about what is exposed to end users | 19:45 |
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| dolphm | dtroyer: it'll have to handle token refreshing, rescoping, etc so it's got to be available somewhere | 19:45 |
| dtroyer | I'd love to focus on getting the low-level stuff fleshed out so we can start doing something…mixing discussions about high and low isn't being very productive so far | 19:46 |
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| briancurtin | not to totally end this current auth topic, but with 14 minutes left, any thoughts on the next steps after this current review is approved? | 19:46 |
| dolphm | dtroyer: i don't want to commit to any high level stuff at this point :) | 19:47 |
| bknudson | there's a couple of approaches -- focus on the low level and work your way up, for focus on the high-level and work your way down | 19:47 |
| bknudson | I'd prefer to focus on the high level, since those are our use cases. | 19:47 |
| briancurtin | #topic next steps and approaches | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next steps and approaches (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:47 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | briancurtin: I think the next step is expose an actual Client object | 19:47 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: yup…but it's hard to road-test the high-level without the low-level | 19:48 |
| edleafe | Alex_Gaynor: but we can' | 19:48 |
| edleafe | can | 19:48 |
| bknudson | dtroyer: it'll require implementing something ugly, but we can make direct requests and then flesh out the low level from there... keeping the high-level working thorough unit tests | 19:48 |
| edleafe | tarrgggh | 19:48 |
| edleafe | we can't call it 'client' - see: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sdk-glossary | 19:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Connection, whatever. | 19:49 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: then maybe we should just use keystoneclient as a stand-in low level rather than invent yet something else? | 19:49 |
| bknudson | dtroyer: as long as it doesn't tie us into any high-level decisions then I'm fine with that. But http clients are not difficult to write. | 19:50 |
| wchrisj_ | This sounds a lot like what jamielennox: has suggested around the term Session | 19:51 |
| bknudson | I'd like to see a definition of Session | 19:51 |
| wchrisj_ | or context | 19:51 |
| bknudson | would a session be used by a single connection to a cloud? (i.e., one session - one cloud) | 19:52 |
| briancurtin | bknudson: to kick things off "(proposed) a wrapper around requests.Session that adds OpenStack-specific things like logging and auth-header injections and re-authentication on token expiration" (not my words, from the etherpad) | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: yes, including specific user creds | 19:52 |
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| jamielennox | bknudson: yes, one session = one cloud using one auth | 19:53 |
| edleafe | I've used 'context' to be a specific authed user for a service. From there, you can access clients/whatever for each service | 19:53 |
| wchrisj_ | See "context" definition in etherpad | 19:54 |
| bknudson | briancurtin: that definition sounds good to me. | 19:54 |
| dtroyer | context is what you would have multiple instance of to talk to multiple clouds, or as multiple users, at the same time | 19:54 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: yes | 19:55 |
| briancurtin | 3 min left, anything else to squeeze in? | 19:57 |
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| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 18 19:59:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-18-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-18-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-18-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
| briancurtin | thanks all! | 19:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | thanks everyone | 19:59 |
| wchrisj_ | thanks | 19:59 |
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