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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 16:00:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:00 |
| jomara | hello! | 16:00 |
| lblanchard | hi all! | 16:00 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 16:00 |
| tmazur | hello o/ | 16:00 |
| jpich | Hello | 16:00 |
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| lcheng_ | hello! | 16:00 |
| tzumainn | hiya | 16:00 |
| akrivoka | hey | 16:00 |
| pbelanyi | hi | 16:00 |
| doug-fish | Hello everyone | 16:00 |
| jcoufal | o/ | 16:01 |
| amotoki_ | hi | 16:01 |
| david-lyle | We're in the middle of trying to wrap up RC1 for Icehouse. #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 16:02 |
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| david-lyle | We have 11 bugs left to merge | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | So we are looking good | 16:02 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Do we need to wait for them all to merge, or will there be a RC1 with the understanding than a RC2 is coming later too? | 16:03 |
| lsmola_ | hello | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | We're going to target next Tuesday for RC1. | 16:03 |
| jpich | Is RC1 today? | 16:03 |
| jpich | Ooh, ok! | 16:03 |
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| jpich | david-lyle: Thanks! | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | jpich: not all are required for RC1 | 16:03 |
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| david-lyle | There are only about 2-3 that I'd hold RC1 for, and the rest would target an RC2. | 16:04 |
| jpich | Understood | 16:04 |
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| david-lyle | I believe there is one item that will require an RC2 and probably the translations | 16:04 |
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| david-lyle | so please take the time to review the In Progress patches for RC1 | 16:05 |
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| david-lyle | Second general item is Summit Topics #link http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:05 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Are there django openstack auth patches we should be keeping an eye on for the RC as well? | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | jpich: I'm treating that independently | 16:06 |
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| david-lyle | My rationale is that we don't have any new features that require a django-openstack-auth upgrade | 16:06 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Ok, just wanted to make sure since they don't necessarily have the same visibility when they're not related to anything on the milestone page | 16:07 |
| jpich | makes sense! | 16:07 |
| david-lyle | so I'm not sure the value of requiring a new version of django-openstack-auth for Icehouse | 16:07 |
| * jpich thinking of the Keystone v3 issues | 16:07 | |
| amotoki_ | regarding openstack_auth, i see some translation update. I would like to update translations before its release. | 16:07 |
| david-lyle | so we should dig into this a little more | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | OpenStack dependency change freeze is EOD today | 16:08 |
| jpich | I'm pretty sure we'll need exceptions due to client updates :/ | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | if we want to require a newer version of django-openstack-auth, I need to release today and push the update through openstack/requirements | 16:09 |
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| * jpich still hoping we can get password change with keystone v3 in time for Icehouse | 16:09 | |
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| david-lyle | I think dolphm is looking to release that change today, but supporting that would require a requirements change | 16:10 |
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| jpich | The keystone client patch hasn't merged yet unfortunately | 16:10 |
| jpich | DepFreeze is new so I guess we'll see how it works out... | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | for openstack-auth, we can also say there's a newer version of the package, upgrade and your problems are fixed | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | jpich, if the patch makes it we'll figure out a way to utilize it | 16:11 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Cool, happy to know this! | 16:12 |
| amotoki_ | Is it better to propose a translation import soon? All of them looks typo fix in translation. | 16:12 |
| amotoki_ | for DepFreeze, the main motivation looks third party modules maintained outside of openstack projects. | 16:12 |
| jrist | o/ | 16:12 |
| julim | hi | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | My understanding was not just outside, I think version rolls of the same package may be the exception | 16:13 |
| jpich | amotoki: That's my understanding of the rationale as well, but the emails about it make it sound larger | 16:13 |
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| amotoki_ | thanks. it seems better we think it applies to client libraries too anyway. | 16:15 |
| jpich | amotoki_: It can be troublesome for Horizon (e.g. that neutron client update with the new exceptions) but we'll figure it out :) | 16:15 |
| amotoki_ | jpich: it is too short to address it :-( | 16:16 |
| jpich | amotoki_: Damn :( Ok, thank you for the update and for looking into it | 16:17 |
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| david-lyle | ok, there can be exceptions to the freeze, but for openstack-auth, I don't think we need to use this | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | the other clients may cause us issues though | 16:20 |
| jpich | Ok | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | ok, so I'll release django-openstack-auth when we have translations, but not bump the required version | 16:21 |
| amotoki_ | thanks. | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | np | 16:22 |
| absubram | are translations associated with the string freeze?.. or are these different translations? | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | circling back a bit http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:22 |
| jpich | absubram: I think the translation topic will come back in a bit ;) | 16:23 |
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| absubram | haha ok | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | we have 9 or 11 sessions proposed now, which is great | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | as I expect only 6-7 sessions we'll have to consolidate some of these | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | but if you have more topics please post them | 16:24 |
| jpich | I think people are still thinking up topics | 16:24 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle: can you recommend a cutoff date? | 16:24 |
| absubram | yes.. that;'d be good to know | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | I think it's only a few weeks before the summit | 16:24 |
| doug-fish | If there is a deadline it will become an emergency and I'll _have_ to think about it. | 16:25 |
| david-lyle | I don't have a firm date, as it's not set by me | 16:25 |
| jpich | Yes, previously it's been quite close to the summit, with particularly important sessions pre-approved earlier | 16:25 |
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| doug-fish | oh I see | 16:25 |
| amotoki_ | For HK summit, proposed deadline was around the release for most projects (nova, neutron...) though horizon did not. | 16:25 |
| jpich | Interesting, thanks amotoki | 16:26 |
| david-lyle | The summit sessions won't be finalized until after the PTL elections regardless, so the Juno PTL can be the ultimate decider of Juno sessions | 16:26 |
| absubram | lblanchard: last week you and jthopkin were mentioning something about hardware resource capacity management? Is there a session for this that you two have proposed? If so can I tag on to it? | 16:26 |
| jpich | So that would be around April 24th looks like | 16:26 |
| david-lyle | we've not had an embarassment of riches with topics in the past, so it has not been a large task | 16:27 |
| absubram | it is something we have been internally working on.. and personally I was thinking of it being more of an addition to the tuskar-ui.. | 16:27 |
| lblanchard | absubram: I think the plan is to cover this topic in the "Improve the Overview pages" session that jthompkins proposed…of course you are welcome to come! | 16:27 |
| absubram | awesome. thanks! | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | I did want to ask the the tuskar-ui folks which project they intended to submit to or both triple-o and horizon | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | I haven't seen any yet in either | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | jrist, jcoufal, jomara, tzumainn? | 16:28 |
| lblanchard | absubram: whether we talk through it in the Overview session or not, we should definitely talk about where it might fit best…even if we need to grab some space during another time. I think jcoufal would be interested too. | 16:28 |
| lblanchard | absubram: and julim | 16:29 |
| jomara | david-lyle: you mean where we're submitting sessions to? | 16:29 |
| jrist | david-lyle: unfortunately my time has been limited on Tuskar-UI as of late, so I'd refer to others | 16:29 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: if we can get 1 session in Horizon, that would be awesome | 16:29 |
| jcoufal | for API etc it would definitely go to TripleO | 16:29 |
| absubram | oh definitely! sounds good.. thanks lblanchard | 16:29 |
| tzumainn | david-lyle, yep, what jcoufal said sounds right to me! | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | That sounds reasonable | 16:30 |
| jomara | +1 | 16:30 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: I'll work on it's detail | 16:30 |
| jcoufal | I don't think there is rush for the proposals, is it? | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | jcoufal: great thanks, I think it's an area of wide interest | 16:30 |
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| david-lyle | no, we have another month or so | 16:31 |
| jcoufal | perfect | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | #topic Translation and String Freeze | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Translation and String Freeze (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:31 | |
| david-lyle | so doug-fish had some questions and I'm hoping amotoki can provide some clarification | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | or jpich | 16:32 |
| jpich | amotoki_: I think it would be really helpful if the i18n team could update https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze to be what the i18n team actually wishes to see | 16:32 |
| doug-fish | oh thanks - yes that is my concern | 16:32 |
| doug-fish | I know we don't exactly follow what's in the wiki | 16:33 |
| doug-fish | but its not clear to me exactly when we decide we should/shouldn't update an english user facing string | 16:33 |
| jpich | I think 95%+ of Horizon patches would be blocked if we followed what's in the wiki at the moment... | 16:33 |
| amotoki_ | :-) | 16:33 |
| doug-fish | doesn't that cause lots of problems with translations? | 16:33 |
| amotoki_ | doug-fish: most small updates does not matter from my experience. | 16:34 |
| doug-fish | - it doens't matter because the translation team can pick it up? | 16:34 |
| amotoki_ | yes. if a change is small, transifex suggests old translations too. | 16:35 |
| jpich | amotok_i: I see a lot of typo patches being submitted to Horizon still. Is there a cut-off date when we should start blocking them till Juno? When should the "request exception from i18n team" process begin? Maybe that's a topic for the next i18n meeting | 16:35 |
| doug-fish | amotoki_ is the transifex process continuous? that is, if a havana patch went out today with a new user facing string, could it get translated somehow? | 16:36 |
| absubram | good question :) | 16:36 |
| amotoki_ | doug-fish: we have resources both for icehouse and havana. They are maintained separately. | 16:37 |
| jpich | doug-fish: It could, as in we have havana "branches" in Transifex, but the po file updates aren't automatically updated on either side at this point (is my current understanding) | 16:37 |
| amotoki_ | but syncing with transifex for havana is done manually. | 16:37 |
| doug-fish | manually by us in the community? | 16:38 |
| doug-fish | so our patch sets have updated po files as some point? | 16:38 |
| amotoki_ | now we have jenkins job to upload PO file to transifex for master branch. | 16:39 |
| amotoki_ | The job is kicked every time a patch is merged. | 16:39 |
| amotoki_ | I did it manually previously :) | 16:40 |
| doug-fish | amotoki_: automation is great, huh? :-) will that job continue perpetually? so icehouse PO files could get sent to transifex during juno, or k? | 16:40 |
| absubram | I have a couple bugs in review that make string changes and that amotoki has seen and wished for other community feedback on as well.. and I don't want to step on any toes, if it needs to be pushed to Juno so be it, but wanted to make sure if it somehow did get added in RC1, it doesn't hurt the translation process | 16:40 |
| jpich | absubram: Are they small string changes or larger ones? | 16:42 |
| amotoki_ | doug-fish: The job is targeted to master branch. Once the msater branch is opened to Juno, transifex resources will be synced with Juno. | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | so amotoki_, once we import the translations for Horizon, then should we, block further string changes? | 16:42 |
| amotoki_ | doug-fish: a tricky point is after RC1 is shipped. I and daisy need to work on it. | 16:42 |
| absubram | jpich: I'd say small :)).. but one review does add two new strings | 16:42 |
| amotoki_ | david-lyle: i hope so. RC1 cut is a possible deadline. | 16:43 |
| doug-fish | amotoki_: Thanks. I think I have a much better understanding of what we are doing now. | 16:43 |
| amotoki_ | doug-fish: you're welcome. | 16:43 |
| amotoki_ | jpich: absubram: The reason I -1'ed first is because it is a small feature addition with new strings. It is really a gray zone. | 16:44 |
| absubram | amotoki_: no worries.. that one got merged though this past weekend.. so thanks to you and david-lyle | 16:45 |
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| david-lyle | amotoki_, RC1 seems reasonable | 16:46 |
| absubram | amotoki: this one is the Profile name and id addition in the network details.. anyway don't want to derail the discussion.. | 16:46 |
| amotoki_ | btw, switching django from 1.5 to 1.6 introduces new strings to transaltions. Previously openstack/common strings are excluded. | 16:46 |
| jpich | amotoki_: I think updating that wiki page would help reviewers assess patches with a clearer understanding of what is helpful to the i18n and what might require exception approval. It sounds like "grey zone" may require asking the i18n list what they think? | 16:47 |
| amotoki_ | jpich: sounds good. | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | amotoki_, is that just a path issue, seems like openstack/common should already be translated | 16:48 |
| jpich | amotoki_: Ok, thank you. I'll send an email to the i18n list with a summary of what was discussed here to get feedback | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | amotoki_, I see the lp bug now, lookign | 16:49 |
| amotoki_ | david-lyle: basically it should be translated, but we have a number of unused openstack-common. | 16:49 |
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| amotoki_ | I noticed it because ~20 strings suddenly appeared. | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | so switched openstack/common/* to openstack fixes the issue? | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | s/switched/switching/ | 16:50 |
| amotoki_ | david-lyle: yes, but it may be better to remove ignore option. | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | and retranslate the strings? or is oslo not including translations? | 16:51 |
| amotoki_ | previously oslo is not translated in many languages (AFAIK no languages) | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | ah, then I agree, ignore may not be desirable | 16:52 |
| jpich | It seems a bit late to suddenly add many new strings to the translators workload though... | 16:53 |
| amotoki_ | jpich: good point. openstack/common strings takes a time to translate without reading the code. | 16:53 |
| amotoki_ | hmm..... how about keeping --ignore option for Icehouse. most strings are invisible to users. | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | let's go back to the original behavior for icehouse with amotoki_'s patch and fix properly in Juno | 16:54 |
| jpich | Sounds good to me, and we can revisit in Juno | 16:54 |
| amotoki_ | +1 | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | sold | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | :) | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | we're no worse off than we were before | 16:55 |
| david-lyle | any other translation questions issues? | 16:55 |
| jpich | amotoki: About the .mo file issues on the agenda, there is a bug open about it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1196982 | 16:55 |
| amotoki_ | let's discuss on MO files in the bug report. | 16:55 |
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| jpich | The concern about the first patch was that we wanted a way to regenerate them automatically, maybe you know how the other projects handle it? | 16:56 |
| jpich | Ok! | 16:56 |
| jpich | 3 minutes of open discussion then? ;) | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open Season | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Season (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:56 | |
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| absubram | "open season" eh? :) | 16:57 |
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| david-lyle | I am from the middle of the US, all phrases relate to farming, hunting or fishing, can't help it | 16:58 |
| absubram | haha | 16:58 |
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| jpich | Actually I had a small item, we renamed the "Images & Snapshots" panel "Images" | 16:58 |
| jpich | but instances snapshots do live in there too | 16:58 |
| jpich | I think it'd be clearer to change back the verbose name (but no need to change the class names like the patch that changed this did) | 16:59 |
| amotoki_ | I think an instance snapshot is a kind of images. | 16:59 |
| jpich | I can imagine some confusion as to where things go after clicking "Create snapshot" on the Instances panel | 17:00 |
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| amotoki_ | ah... | 17:00 |
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| pballand | hi | 17:00 |
| jpich | for end-users I mean. I'm not sure if the "snapshot is an image" is clear | 17:00 |
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| jpich | anyhow I'll open a bug and we'll see in reviews I guess | 17:00 |
| rajdeep | hi | 17:00 |
| amotoki_ | time is over | 17:00 |
| jpich | Yup | 17:01 |
| david-lyle | oops indeed. | 17:01 |
| pballand | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | pballand: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 17:01 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone! Have a great week. | 17:01 |
| kudva | hi | 17:01 |
| lsmola_ | thanks, have a good week everyone | 17:01 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 17:01:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-25-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| jomara | adios, everyone | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-25-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-03-25-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
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| david-lyle | start again | 17:01 |
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| absubram | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| akrivoka | thanks everyone, bye | 17:01 |
| pballand | :) | 17:01 |
| absubram | bye! | 17:01 |
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| tmazur | Thanks all! | 17:01 |
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| pballand | thinrichs: you around? | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Yep--I'm here. | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Hi all! | 17:02 |
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| kudva | hi | 17:02 |
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| pballand | would you mind running the meeting? I've been out of sorts this week | 17:02 |
| rajdeep | hi all | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | pballand: sure. | 17:02 |
| s3wong | hello | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | Probably makes sense to go through the action items from last week. | 17:03 |
| david-lyle | pballand, thinrichs, I had to end the last meeting, try restarting it. | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | david-lyle: will do. Didn't notice it didn't take | 17:03 |
| david-lyle | sorry for the run over | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 17:03:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | david-lyle: no worries | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: do you want to give us a status update on neutron/etc. drivers? | 17:04 |
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| rajdeep | yes | 17:04 |
| rajdeep | i just sent a couple a change requests | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | finishing the integration of Neutron with congress | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: yeah--it's looking good. Didn't get a chance to look at your changes yet this morning. | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | you can see the CR here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82293/3 | 17:06 |
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| rajdeep | also added another variable to store timestamp of syncup | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | this finished networks and ports conversion from json to tuple | 17:07 |
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| thinrichs | I'd ask about the next component you'll be working on, but there's another action item that will impact that. | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | i was thinking of doing nova driver | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: any lessons learned that you want to share about converting JSON to tables/tuples? | 17:08 |
| rajdeep | yes - it gets complicated so spent some time creating detailed mappings | 17:08 |
| rajdeep | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K9RkQuBSPN7Z2TmKfok7mw3E24otEGo8Pnsemxd5544/edit | 17:08 |
| rajdeep | refer to the design doc | 17:09 |
| rajdeep | also one json maps to n tuples | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | It would be nice to have some sort of writeup so that new people have an easier time understanding what needs to be done when writing a new driver. | 17:09 |
| rajdeep | thats a good idea | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: want to tackle that? You're the expert | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | will do that | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | - yes | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | what should be the format - rst? | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | and where should i place it | 17:10 |
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| thinrichs | There's a section in the current RST docs on "Data Integration". Let's put it there. | 17:11 |
| rajdeep | ok | 17:11 |
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| thinrichs | #action rajdeep will work on the Data Integration portion of the docs, focusing on adding a new driver | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | Let's move on then. | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | kudva: did you get enough feedback from us to work on the policy engine/Datalog builtins? | 17:12 |
| kudva | Would like to have a discussion on it. | 17:12 |
| kudva | I have some ideas to implement, but want to make sure that the team agrees | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | Want to briefly layout the problem you're working on and what you're planning? | 17:13 |
| kudva | Okay, so the idea is the we have a congress_builtin that has the following components | 17:14 |
| kudva | 1. It of course has the python builtins | 17:14 |
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| kudva | 2. It provides (manipulation of datalog primitives), particularly string manipulation (as you mentioned) to extract elements | 17:15 |
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| kudva | 3. It provides mappign from datalog function to data source tables (is this part of the builtin?) | 17:15 |
| kudva | Once we agree, I can go ahead and implement | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | By (1) you mean basic functions like addition, subtraction, string manipulation, right? | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | Or are you also thinking of set(), list(), dict(), and so on? | 17:16 |
| kudva | By 1, I mean everything that is part of python builtin | 17:16 |
| kudva | 2. would be specific to datalog and congress | 17:16 |
| kudva | 1 = http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/functions.html | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | Thanks for the link. | 17:17 |
| kudva | 2. = datalog specific addition, subtraction, string etc. | 17:18 |
| kudva | Python already provides many of the functions for add, sub etc, so what I am adding is datalog primitive support correct? | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | My main concern about including all of those Python builtins is that they can have side effects. | 17:19 |
| kudva | Can you give an example? | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | From the policy language's point of view, there shouldn't be side effects b/c then Datalog will need to be reasoning about those side effects to get the right answer. | 17:19 |
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| thinrichs | You create a dict() and then later set a value--you *modify* that dict, you don't create a new one. | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | Datalog sort of assumes that every time you change a dict you would create a new one. Sort of like Haskell. | 17:21 |
| kudva | I see | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | Also, eval() is super worrisome because it could do anything. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | Typically a policy language will allow any builtin without side effects. Though there are downsides to having even those builtins. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | The more builtins we have, the harder it is to do *analysis* of the policy. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | Say we wanted to check if there were any cloud service tables (input tables to the policy) that would make some table empty. Without any builtins, there are reasonably straightforward algorithms to use. | 17:23 |
| kudva | Got it. Unless all the builtins can be reduced to some fixed set of basic primitives... | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | But with builtins, we'd need to modify those algorithms so they know (for example) how to add 2 numbers, etc. | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | kudva: Right. | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | That was why I would start with a small set of builtins (arithmetic, string manipulation) and build up from there. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | Once we get the mechanism for adding builtins nailed down, it should be easy to add new ones. | 17:24 |
| kudva | Okay, I can start that. So to be clear. The builtins will be used in the policy language. They will be reduced to a fixed set up primitives for analysis. | 17:24 |
| kudva | That is not to complicate the analysis | 17:25 |
| kudva | So what we need is a fixed set of primitives that keeps the analysis simple. All builtins or macros sitting on top should be reducible to those primitives | 17:26 |
| kudva | Let me start a draft to make it more concrete | 17:26 |
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| kudva | I will take a few arithmetic examples and send out some examples for discussoin | 17:26 |
| kudva | discussion | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | Great! Here's the question I was about to ask you... | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | kudva: sounds good. Want to take a stab at a (brief) proposal to nail down (i) syntax within the policy language (see my email), (ii) how one would add additional builtins, and (iii) a word or two about what code would need modifications? | 17:26 |
| kudva | okay, will do that | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | #action kudva will put a proposal together for adding builtins to the Datalog policy language. | 17:27 |
| thinrichs | Moving on... | 17:27 |
| thinrichs | pballand: you had 2 action items. | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | (1) Hooking up the API to the policy engine and (2) looking into the data integration glue (for helping the policy engine communicate with the component drivers) | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | Any progress? | 17:28 |
| pballand | some, on (1), I've begun refactoring the existing API code to make it more tightly coupled with policy | 17:29 |
| pballand | I don't have code to post yet, but hope to by the end of the week. | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | Great! It'll help others, especially, to see the end-to-end flow of information from API to policy engine. | 17:29 |
| pballand | on (2), I haven't gotten very far, but I believe there is some other work underway | 17:30 |
| pballand | it seems like an AMQP framework would work week for the data integration, and we are looking to leverage some existing code | 17:31 |
| pballand | I'll post to the ML when we have more on this | 17:32 |
| pballand | that's all I have to report today :( | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. Thanks for the update | 17:34 |
| pballand | actually, just saw in email that it is okay to announce that Plexxi is going to contribute some code for the data integration | 17:34 |
| pballand | we are super excited to have them on board | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | Awesome! | 17:34 |
| rajdeep | this is great news! | 17:35 |
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| pballand | yes! | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | The cool thing about the Plexxi code is that they have a Python impl of AMQP for doing data integration. | 17:35 |
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| pballand | we will be working to merge in that code, and will report more on the ML and next meeting | 17:36 |
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| thinrichs | So this will enable the policy engine to ask for data from our cloud service drivers and eventually tell those cloud service drivers to execute actions. | 17:37 |
| rajdeep | i am assuming this will sit between the policy engine and the datasource drivers | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | That's the idea, at least conceptually. It'll take some work to figure out how the integration will actually work. | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | Any other questions about Plexxi before we move on? | 17:38 |
| pballand | rajdeep: yes - we will probably support other mechanisms for POC work, but I expect this would be the preferred integration pattern | 17:38 |
| rajdeep | great | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | The last item on the agenda before opening it up is an update on my action items. | 17:39 |
| rajdeep | this will make it scalable so that drivers could run on a separate node as compared the engine | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | I was supposed to investigate the idea that we would replace the Classificatin+Action policies with a Classification, Access Control, and Condition action policy. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | I sent a note to the ML, and no one seemed to have a strong opinion one way or the other. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | After waiting a while, I went ahead and edited the design doc to reflect the new ideas. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | It's much simpler to understand and I think it should help us focus better on making this first alpha release a good one. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | I also pitched Congress to 3 different groups, and our newer simplified version went over well. People seemed to understand it pretty much immediately. | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | Does anyone have questions/comments about this? | 17:41 |
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| rajdeep | it is easier to understand it this way | 17:42 |
| rajdeep | :) | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | Then I'll take an action item to make the changes in the code. Once that's done I'll update the docs as well. | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will remove the Action description policy and add the Access Control policy from the prototype. | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | The last thing we have is Open Discussion. | 17:44 |
| rajdeep | had a question on how will congress work with neutron policy related work | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | It's not clear how they will interoperate right now. | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | Conceptually, we'd like it to be the case that they can exchange policy fragments. | 17:46 |
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| thinrichs | If, for example, Congress could push policy down to Neutron, then that policy could be used to prevent violations before they happen more efficiently than having Neutron consult with Congress directly. | 17:47 |
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| rajdeep | they also have classifier, rules and actions | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | Syntactically they're similar languages (as most policy languages are). | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | But we'd need to make sure that we are enforcing the same policy. | 17:48 |
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| thinrichs | One challenge is that our policies may require information that Neutron doesn't itself have. | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | (That's why Data Integration is so important). | 17:48 |
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| thinrichs | For example, our policy might refer to Nova info, Neutron info, and AD info. We can't push that policy down to Neutron unless it has access to that same info. | 17:49 |
| rajdeep | that was my thought too | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | Similarly, Neutron policies can refer to L4-L7 data in a network packet--info we may or may not have. | 17:49 |
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| rajdeep | neutron needs more info to have a comprehensive policy | 17:49 |
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| thinrichs | So just from the perspective of information, it's non-trivial to have them exchange policies. | 17:50 |
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| thinrichs | Anything else? | 17:51 |
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| rajdeep | no | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | Great discussion, all. Let's follow up on the ML, as usual. | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | Thanks! | 17:52 |
| rajdeep | thanks | 17:52 |
| pballand | #endmeeting | 17:53 |
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| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 17:53:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-03-25-17.03.html | 17:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-03-25-17.03.txt | 17:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-03-25-17.03.log.html | 17:54 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 19:01:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | For everyone who is here for the Python meeting, can you state your name and affiliation? | 19:01 |
| edleafe | Ed Leafe, Rackspace | 19:01 |
| dtroyer | Dean Troyer, Nebula | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | Brian Curtin, Rackspace | 19:02 |
| wchrisj | Chris Johnson, HP | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | I'm guessing/hoping others will probably roll in | 19:04 |
| briancurtin | #topic Status of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79435/ (Infrastructure for adding auth to a requests sesssion) | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79435/ (Infrastructure for adding auth to a requests sesssion) (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:04 | |
| briancurtin | When we left off, Jamie and I think a few others said that seemed fine to go in, but there were some infra hiccups preventing it. Since then, a -1 from Terry Howe popped up | 19:05 |
| briancurtin | unfortunately I don't see Terry or Alex here | 19:05 |
| mfer | Matt Farina, HP | 19:06 |
| wchrisj | Terry is offline ATM | 19:06 |
| briancurtin | anyone with a comment on that review or should we move forward/perhaps come back to it | 19:06 |
| wchrisj | briancurtin: I'll ping Terry and ask him to comment ASAP | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ (Add API discovery support) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ (Add API discovery support) (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:08 | |
| dtroyer | briancurtin: would probably be better to look at these in order | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | yeah i just realized i pasted the wrong thing, 1 sec | 19:08 |
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| briancurtin | #topic: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81882/ (Add requests.Session wrapper class) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81882/ (Add requests.Session wrapper class) (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:09 | |
| briancurtin | other than my little minor comments, i think it's probably fine. could use some other eyes now that it's broken up and has a few more revs | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | Anyone have any idea if I've addressed alex's comments sufficiently? | 19:10 |
| briancurtin | i *think* so | 19:11 |
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| briancurtin | i pinged him to show up here fwiw | 19:11 |
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| dtroyer | what sort of docs are expected as we go here? not finished, of course, but should something go in ad modues are added?? | 19:13 |
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| briancurtin | dtroyer: good question, which i havent thought of until now, but I wonder if we should put in signatures at the very least, so we know *what* should be documented...versus nothing, then coming back and not covering things | 19:14 |
| bknudson | I'd prefer it if the docs were first | 19:15 |
| dtroyer | I was thinking that the equivalent of what I had in the blueprint could go in too | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | bknudson: not having done doc-driven dev, or anything close to it - to what degree are you documenting things first? like writing the signature and prose documentation all up front, or just sketching a general idea up? | 19:16 |
| bknudson | a general idea would be adequate | 19:16 |
| bknudson | show a use case | 19:16 |
| bknudson | btw - what docs are we talking about? a tutorial or something? | 19:17 |
| bknudson | I like it for as much docs as possible be in the docstrings. | 19:17 |
| dtroyer | anything really, but I was thinking of what should go into the repo, doc/source/?? | 19:17 |
| briancurtin | unless we have something pulling the docs out of the docstrings and into separate (or additional) documentation, i don't really like depending on docstrings | 19:18 |
| bknudson | I'd prefer it if we could get as much as possible into docstrings vs separate docs. tutorials would go in separate docs, but should be able to figure out how to use the API from the docstrings | 19:19 |
| bknudson | I've seen docstrings done poorly and I've seen them done well. | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | you should be able to figure out the API from docstrings, but you shouldn't have to go there to find it. telling people to look at the source to find out how to use it is not a good experience | 19:20 |
| bknudson | the docs are generated from the docstrings, you don't have to look at the source | 19:20 |
| briancurtin | if we have that in place, that seems fine. i wasnt aware of that being the current plan | 19:21 |
| briancurtin | (not familiar with how docs are done around here) | 19:21 |
| bknudson | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/api/modules.html | 19:22 |
| bknudson | keystone has the docstrings. | 19:22 |
| bknudson | (and this is an example of docstrings docs not done right) | 19:22 |
| briancurtin | as long as that infra is in place to have it there, if we do it right, then that looks fine for API docs. we can deal with tutorials or user guides and whatnot as things move on | 19:23 |
| bknudson | docstrings make it easier for developers because then it's right there with the code... it still takes work to make it useful | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | yep. i'll start taking a closer look at docstrings in reviews, but as long as we have good ones, i think that satisfies any doc-as-part-of-change requirement we may have for now | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81988/ (Add redirection handling to openstack.session.Session) | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81988/ (Add redirection handling to openstack.session.Session) (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:27 | |
| briancurtin | this also looked generally fine, although not being familiar with where it came from, i feel like it's probably better with some eyes from keystone people (which is where it came from, IIRC) | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | dtroyer: are there tests to go with this one? | 19:30 |
| dtroyer | This is basically out of jamielennox's Session object. I haven't written/stolen specific tests yet | 19:30 |
| bknudson | I assume this project is going to have a requirement for unit tests. | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | yep. functionality wise it appears fine, but...tests | 19:31 |
| wchrisj | question on this approach... | 19:32 |
| wchrisj | Why is the redirect handling being done inside of the session. That feels like it should be in the HTTP transport layer | 19:33 |
| wchrisj | if I understand what is being discussed (may not) | 19:33 |
| wchrisj | it feels out of place inside of session | 19:34 |
| dtroyer | as I see it, the alternative is modifying requests itself. This is as close as we get otherwise. | 19:34 |
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| jamielennox | sorry, here | 19:35 |
| jamielennox | wchrisj: for the time being at least this IS the HTTP transport layer | 19:35 |
| wchrisj | ahh, OK, I just saw the "import requests" | 19:35 |
| wchrisj | so yeah, now I see | 19:36 |
| jamielennox | i submitted a bug to requests saying that for programming against APIs we would like to ignore the web redirects | 19:36 |
| jamielennox | and was told that certains redirects allow (or at best don't specify) that the http method must be the same | 19:36 |
| jamielennox | and that essentially apis shouldn't be using those redirects | 19:36 |
| wchrisj | so this redirect handling stuff is a temp hack to overcome that shortcoming? | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | however we had legacy tests in keystone that required those status to redirect correctly | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | keystoneclient i mean | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | wchrisj: essentially | 19:37 |
| dtroyer | how temporary is it though? | 19:37 |
| wchrisj | jamielennox: ok | 19:37 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: i was told it's not going to happen | 19:37 |
| dtroyer | that's what I thought | 19:38 |
| briancurtin | jamielennox: do you have the bug report handy? | 19:38 |
| dtroyer | so it s a permanent reminder of a temporary feeling… ;) | 19:38 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: i'll have a look | 19:38 |
| wchrisj | What I'm getting at is we might want to isolate that in it's own layer just for this sort of reason | 19:38 |
| wchrisj | would that make sense jamielennox: ?? | 19:38 |
| dtroyer | wchrisj: I see this is exactly that layer | 19:38 |
| wchrisj | or is it overkill? | 19:39 |
| jamielennox | https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/issues/1778 | 19:39 |
| briancurtin | thanks | 19:39 |
| jamielennox | i still think the reply to the bug is wrong for the API case | 19:40 |
| wchrisj | dtroyer: This isn't a hill to die for, but Session is about a lot more than just the HTTP transport, correct? | 19:40 |
| bknudson | people use web for something other than getting web pages? | 19:41 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: :) | 19:41 |
| dtroyer | wchrisj: sort of. It is also a handly place for some common OpenStack-specific things that need to happen at this layer | 19:41 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: technically they may be right - but if i was an admin i would expect i could install a 301 redirect and things would work | 19:42 |
| jamielennox | wchrisj: if they were to be seperate it would be a subclass anyway so there isn't an advantage in security just seperating code | 19:42 |
| jamielennox | also it would be really easy to make the subclass - because python | 19:43 |
| jamielennox | that's at least the plan i've been working on for keystoneclient for when someone get's really annoyed by the mixing | 19:43 |
| jamielennox | on this topic i do like the comment at: https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/blob/master/requests/sessions.py#L132 | 19:45 |
| jamielennox | # Do what the browsers do, despite standards. | 19:45 |
| jamielennox | yet they weren't willing to consider adding a standards mode | 19:45 |
| briancurtin | bummer | 19:45 |
| briancurtin | 14 min left and another review to cover, will jump forward | 19:46 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ (Add API discovery support) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ (Add API discovery support) (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:47 | |
| dtroyer | this one is not finished but I wanted to get some early feedback on it | 19:47 |
| dtroyer | it is totally different from what Jamie did in keystoneclient | 19:47 |
| dtroyer | I wanted a discovery mechanism that could stand alone and not be too closely tied to any one API | 19:48 |
| dtroyer | which is why the Identity hack is in a subclass | 19:48 |
| bknudson | jamielennox has some changes to support other version responses | 19:48 |
| bknudson | to the keystoneclient version | 19:48 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: right i've been wanting to go through that and see where the differences in support are | 19:48 |
| dtroyer | I don't have all of the stable/experimental status bits in yet | 19:49 |
| briancurtin | dtroyer: i have zero knowledge of how keystoneclient does it. should i have that? | 19:49 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: not really | 19:49 |
| bknudson | briancurtin: no, please look at this fresh! | 19:49 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: the current keystoneclient only does it for keystone | 19:49 |
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| jamielennox | (though there are changes in place to start fixing that) | 19:49 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: did the ApiVersion class come from the keysteonclient equivalent? | 19:51 |
| jamielennox | or do you see you'll have need for that? | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | jamielennox: no, that's from scratch from last fall sometime | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | it was just more convenient to put the version normalization in there | 19:53 |
| dtroyer | I'm not sure there is a need for it outside discovery | 19:53 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: ok, that approach is what we currently have in keystoneclient but i scrapped it in a pending review | 19:53 |
| bknudson | for keystoneclient we do version negotiation because we've got a v2 and v3 client libs | 19:53 |
| bknudson | but there's only one openstackclient | 19:53 |
| bknudson | so seems like we don't need to do version negotiation? | 19:54 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: we do, OSC knows how to talk to all versions supported by the libs, but it doesn't knwo which one to use. This stuff cam eout of what I've been working on for OSC | 19:54 |
| dtroyer | back before any of the libs even thought about it | 19:55 |
| briancurtin | dtroyer: using the tests as a guide, this seems straightforward enough to me coming at it with no specific knowledge | 19:55 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: yea - the same thing will apply to all the other clients when we have unversioned urls in the service catalog | 19:55 |
| bknudson | is openstack lib going to have multiple client lib versions? | 19:56 |
| bknudson | i.e., an identity.v2 lib and an identity.v3 lib? or a compute.v2 and compute.v3? | 19:57 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: it will need to span multiple api versions | 19:57 |
| jamielennox | the internals of how htat will work are still unknown | 19:57 |
| briancurtin | yeah, not sure exactly how it'll do it, but it'll be there | 19:57 |
| bknudson | can identity lib support both identity v2 and identity v3? | 19:57 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: I've always thought if it like that, similar to the project libs today | 19:57 |
| dtroyer | there should be a higher-level API that strives to be version-agnostic | 19:58 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: identity is tricky because of the changes from v2->v3, but in general ys | 19:58 |
| dtroyer | I don't want to mix that conversation into the low-level API though | 19:58 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: so there are a lot of public apis in discovery - some returning ApiVersion objects | 19:59 |
| briancurtin | 1 min left, anything to sneak in before breaking this up? | 19:59 |
| jamielennox | not necessarily a problem just that it might be worth keeping some of that private | 19:59 |
| dtroyer | jamielennox: yeah, I haven't really thought about that bit yet | 19:59 |
| dtroyer | some of those may be useful, and I'm not sure of the consensus about sublasses overriding private methods | 20:00 |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 20:00:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-25-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-25-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-03-25-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| briancurtin | (can't remember if anyone follows in this meeting slot, but in case they do...ended) | 20:01 |
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