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| jomara | /win 32 | 15:12 |
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| tzumainn | hiya! | 16:01 |
| jomara | hi | 16:01 |
| jomara | tzumainn: hi | 16:01 |
| doug-fish | Hi all | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 16:03:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:03 |
| lblanchard | hi all! | 16:03 |
| tmazur | hello o/ | 16:03 |
| lsmola2 | hello | 16:03 |
| akrivoka | hello \o | 16:03 |
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| amotoki | hi | 16:04 |
| jomara | ahoy | 16:04 |
| jcoufal | o/ hi | 16:04 |
| jpich | Hi | 16:04 |
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| lcheng | hi | 16:04 |
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| MaxV | hi o/ | 16:05 |
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| david-lyle | Hello everyone, so we are in the final steps of closing RC2 | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | we are waiting for one final patch to land related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1289033 which just became public | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | once that patch lands RC2 will be tagged | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | hopefully that's the last RC and we can focus on Juno moving forward | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | There is quite a backlog of reviews that we need to catch up on, if you have a patch out there, it's going to take some time to get through all of them | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | To speed things up please review other patches and help get those ready to go so the process can move faster | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | I understand the frustration on the delay | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | other general item: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/ProjectLiaisons | 16:09 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle - has anyone put together a document/checklist outlining what a good review looks like? I'm sure it doesn't help the core reviewers much if I just run through and +1 everything | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | Oslo is requesting that each project has a designated liaison that will help manage code integration out of oslo and the modules as they graduate from incubation | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish: I think one was posted last week, I need to look back for it | 16:11 |
| jpich | doug-fish: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist can be a good starting point, reading other reviews to pick up on helpful stuff is good too :) Testing the patch and reporting back that it works is useful as well | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | we don't have one specific for Horizon | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | thanks jpich | 16:12 |
| doug-fish | ok that sounds good - thx jpich and david-lyle! | 16:13 |
| amotoki | i think we need to establish our review check list for Java script or GUI related topic. | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | amotoki, I think that's a good idea | 16:14 |
| jpich | Yes, we probably should start building a Horizon specific list | 16:14 |
| david-lyle | I also think a lot of the tutorial and setup docs could use a redo/upgrade, I hope to get to that sometime this release | 16:15 |
| david-lyle | we are seeing a lot of confusion because of that | 16:15 |
| amotoki | We are taking care of user-visible strings/panels more compared to other projects. | 16:15 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle - are you talking about new developer docs or new user docs? | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | yes, and the tutorial that gabriel put together back in late grizzly | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | several things have changed and that's very confusing to new folks | 16:17 |
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| doug-fish | http://gabrielhurley.github.io/slides/openstack/building_on_horizon/ ? | 16:17 |
| akrivoka | these docs easily become stale... it would be great to go through them on a regular basis and make sure they actually work | 16:17 |
| jpich | doug-fish: Probably http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/topics/tutorial.html | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | akrivoka, I agree, I had hopes to do it in Icehouse, but couldn't make the time | 16:18 |
| doug-fish | yeah. It seems that it would be easier to update something owned by the project. :-) | 16:18 |
| jpich | The reference to gabriel's repo should definitely be removed, it's ancient now | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | moving it up on my priorities list | 16:18 |
| jpich | Maybe we could create a bug task and assign it to milestone-3 every release, and hope someone gets to it. Could be a low hanging fruit, "check if the steps still work" :) | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | jpich, that's a good idea | 16:19 |
| akrivoka | jpich: +1, something like that is what I had in mind | 16:19 |
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| doug-fish | is the doc translated? I'm wondering if it's too late to review for icehouse. | 16:19 |
| johnma | That would be a great. I have been trying to follow gabriel's doc to create dashboard and found it really difficult to get things to work. I did open a defect to fix one specific issue related to modifying the settings | 16:19 |
| jpich | I left that bug open for similar reasons (tutorial steps), I'll add the low hanging fruit tag - https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1298490 | 16:19 |
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| johnma | I have a patch for that specific bug. Does that mean the patch will also have to wait? | 16:20 |
| jpich | Nope :) | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | johnma, no | 16:20 |
| johnma | oh ok, cool. | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | smaller patches are easier actually | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | just to circle back for a sec, any volunteers for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/ProjectLiaisons | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | needs to be a core-reviewer | 16:22 |
| lcheng | I'm up for that | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | boom | 16:23 |
| jpich | Go lcheng | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | thanks lchend | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | g | 16:23 |
| amotoki | sounds good. | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | can you add your entry to the wiki page | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | please | 16:23 |
| lcheng | lcheng: no problem | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | at the summit there may be sessions pertinent to this | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open Discussion | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:24 | |
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| david-lyle | The summit is about one month away, are most here planning on attending? | 16:27 |
| lblanchard | yes!! | 16:27 |
| doug-fish | I am | 16:27 |
| doug-fish | wow, that's going to be a small summit. :-) | 16:28 |
| jpich | I should be there too :-) | 16:28 |
| lcheng | o/ | 16:28 |
| amotoki | i will be. | 16:28 |
| amotoki | we are just approving the last patch for RC2 :) | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | we have more topics than slots, so we'll likely combine related topics | 16:30 |
| mrunge | hey, I'll be attending as well | 16:30 |
| mrunge | o/ | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | but I think we can cover most everything on the list | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | excellent | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | looks like a good turnout is planned | 16:30 |
| lblanchard | I know julim will be there too | 16:31 |
| doug-fish | I hope the sessions list isn't closed yet | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish, no not at all, keep proposing | 16:31 |
| jpich | I agree, many of the topics that were submitted as sessions should be discussed on list first | 16:31 |
| johnma | is there some place where we have posted the list of topics for the summit? | 16:31 |
| doug-fish | super. I need to get an internal approval *sigh* but I expect it to happen soon-ish | 16:31 |
| jpich | so we don't have to start the conversation from the beginning + get input from people who can't attend | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | johnma: http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:32 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Did you say/know how many slots we have by the way? | 16:32 |
| johnma | thanks David | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | jpich, yes, trying to recall | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | jpich 7 | 16:33 |
| jpich | 7. Thanks! | 16:33 |
| amotoki | We see many cross-project session in this summit. perhaps most of them are interested in them. | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | yes, I'm looking forward to the cross-project track | 16:34 |
| amotoki | client* standardaization, consistency across openstack API... I believe we can input into them. | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | That should be all day tuesday | 16:34 |
| jpich | Yup | 16:34 |
| jpich | quotas :-) | 16:35 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: do we know what day the Horizon sessions will be? | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | then Horizon sessions will be spread Wed-Fri from the proposal I saw | 16:35 |
| lblanchard | ah :) thanks! | 16:35 |
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| amotoki | btw, for bug triage, i tried to create a draft list of tags https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTags#Horizon | 16:36 |
| lblanchard | I will be giving a talk around the work that UX has done with design and personas on Wednesday at 3:10…just so folks are aware…no pressure on attending, haha | 16:36 |
| jpich | Right up to the last day, it's gonna be an exhausting week as usual :) | 16:36 |
| lblanchard | jpich: +1 | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | Thanks amotoki | 16:36 |
| amotoki | +1 | 16:37 |
| amotoki | but i noticed it doesn't work in horizon so much.... | 16:37 |
| jpich | mrunge is doing a talk on customising horizon that should be interesting too - http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/0e5c889848604c3a88214865e78c7ad2#.U0Qlnzm96lp | 16:37 |
| MaxV | lblanchard: I am currently making a work in progress commit for UX | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | mrunge is on Monday right? | 16:37 |
| amotoki | many of them cannot be classified into this category for my expericen last week. | 16:37 |
| MaxV | lblanchard: demo available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO62UUQPTCM | 16:37 |
| jcoufal | MaxV: the workflow, right? | 16:38 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Seems to be yes | 16:38 |
| MaxV | jcoufal: Yes, close to the end | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | amotoki, the tagging's not working | 16:38 |
| mrunge | yes, my talk is scheduled for Monday | 16:38 |
| jpich | not working? technically or socially? :-) | 16:38 |
| lblanchard | MaxV: Great! We should chat more at summit too around some ideas on the Launch Instance based on usability testing | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | amotoki, ? | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | meant to be a question | 16:38 |
| jpich | oops, ok! | 16:39 |
| jcoufal | MaxV: have seen that, looks great | 16:39 |
| jcoufal | MaxV: I am about to write some feedback on it | 16:39 |
| MaxV | jcoufal: great | 16:39 |
| MaxV | jcoufal: I am currently writting a commit just to provide the source code | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | MaxV, my only concern when looking is providing a simplified path to launch an instance that leverages good defaults and hide some complexity | 16:40 |
| amotoki | david-lyle: tagging still work but we need to explore other tags (catagories). | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | but it's a fine line to address different types of users | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | amotoki, ok, so the tag list is not comprehensive enough? | 16:40 |
| MaxV | david-lyle: 300 lines of javascript | 16:40 |
| lblanchard | MaxV: really helpful to see the video…thanks for putting it together…will give feedback also | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | MaxV, I meant for the user | 16:41 |
| david-lyle | yes the video is very helpful | 16:41 |
| amotoki | MaxV: great! | 16:41 |
| jpich | lblanchard, MaxV: Is this based on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/launch-instance-ux-enhancement ? I think Cedric had patches up to solve issues around the launch as well | 16:41 |
| jcoufal | jpich: I think it is | 16:42 |
| MaxV | jpich: Yes, it is the same | 16:42 |
| MaxV | jpich: I just changed the color | 16:42 |
| jpich | Cool! I'm not sure if he's still around to restore his patches, a lot of them are abandoned | 16:42 |
| amotoki | david-lyle: I don't think it is not comprehensive. I am just saying my tag draft list is not best. | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | MaxV, I'd love to see an interface where you have one form with four inputs (prefilled with defaults) and a submit, but that's a different use case than what you are working on, and perhaps an entirely different option | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | amotoki, ok, it will be a work in progress | 16:43 |
| amotoki | /fyi/ Specify tag "-*" in Advanced Search to extract untagged bugs. it is useful. | 16:44 |
| david-lyle | MaxV, and I'm not sure making your suggested changes cover both use cases is the correct path forward | 16:45 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: basic question is - can we default flavor and image? | 16:45 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Is having both a "simple" interface and an advanced interface kind of what you have in mind? | 16:45 |
| MaxV | david-lyle: maybe a simplified form could have a place | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | MaxV, to clarify, I like your changes and I think they work well for experienced users, we may need a separate workflow for new users | 16:46 |
| jcoufal | jpich: I wouldn't have two forms, more like "hidden" fields and display them on "advanced" action | 16:46 |
| MaxV | david-lyle: launch instance and launch instance (personalized) | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | jcoufal, we can default anything, doesn't necessarily make it a good choice | 16:46 |
| MaxV | like an installation on your computer | 16:47 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: that's what I am afraid. We can always pick first option but I am not sure if it is a good choice | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | or when you're creating an instance, select how much memory and disk and we match the closest flavor | 16:47 |
| jcoufal | that's not bad idea | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | cpu as well | 16:48 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle, jcoufal: I feel like if we have good defaults, the new users should be okay with a similar form to the advanced users. We can also use progressive disclosure for advanced users to view more details if needed | 16:48 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle, jcoufal: but not clutter the screen with these items right away | 16:49 |
| jcoufal | lblanchard: yes, exactly | 16:49 |
| lblanchard | jcoufal, david-lyle: This is something we hope to cover in a proposal during the session where we talk about the usability findings…hopefully all can attend who are interested in helping drive the design…also we hope to post blueprints/designs over the next few weeks for review before summit | 16:50 |
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| david-lyle | lblanchard, MaxV has blueprints, I think the feedback should be added there | 16:51 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: definitely! We will be sure to add there. | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | I imagine there will be items beyond those bps and those would be new ones | 16:51 |
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| lblanchard | david-lyle: yes for sure…I need to add links to the session proposal…hoping to do this today | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | but as mentioned before, most of the design should be done before hand and get larger community feedback on the planned path forward in the session | 16:53 |
| david-lyle | That also doesn't block increment improvements in the mean time | 16:53 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: +1 | 16:53 |
| lblanchard | +1 | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | a few more minutes, any other items to discuss? | 16:54 |
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| jcoufal | david-lyle: Tuskar-UI related styling, but we can discuss outside of the meeting, I don't think there is enough time for it | 16:55 |
| david-lyle | jcoufal, sure, was just curious if the proposed changes were better in horizon or tuskar-ui | 16:56 |
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| jcoufal | david-lyle: I'll open the topic in horizon channel | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | didn't get to try them yet, so not entirely clear the scope | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | sure | 16:57 |
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| lsmola2 | thanks, have a nice week | 17:00 |
| amotoki | bye! have a nice week/ | 17:01 |
| lcheng | bye everyone | 17:01 |
| mrunge | thanks and bye | 17:01 |
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| jcoufal | have a great week all | 17:01 |
| tmazur | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| akrivoka | bye | 17:01 |
| jpich | Thanks | 17:01 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| tzumainn | thanks all! | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 17:01:58 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-04-08-16.03.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-04-08-16.03.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-04-08-16.03.log.html | 17:02 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone, have a great wek | 17:02 |
| david-lyle | week | 17:02 |
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| pballand | howdy | 17:02 |
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| kudva | Hello | 17:02 |
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| thinrichs | Hi all | 17:02 |
| rajdeep | Hi all | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | We're ready to start the Congress meeting | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 17:02:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Let's start by reviewing action items from last week. | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | #topic action items review | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action items review (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:03 | |
| thinrichs | I was supposed to modify the policy engine to provide 3 toplevel policies. | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | AccessControl, ProhibitedStates, and Execution/Enforcement | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | I added the AccessControl policy. The other 2 were already there. | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | I decided for the time being to leave the other high-level functionality in place. | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | We'll just not discuss it in the docs. | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | I think we'll want that functionality later (e.g. enumerating a list of potential remediations for a given policy violation). | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | I did not get around to updating the docs. | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: can you report on your data source driver docs? | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | yes -- i have completed the first draft of the docs | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Great! I looked them over quickly and thought it looked about right. I left I think 1 comment in gerritt. | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | change request submitted for review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84358/ | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | ok, will take a look | 17:07 |
| pballand | Looked reasonable to me too - just a couple nits | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | i focus on how to write a generic driver | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | converting lists / dictionaries into tuples | 17:07 |
| pballand | I think the examples will probably be the most useful going forward | 17:07 |
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| thinrichs | pballand: can you report on the API? | 17:08 |
| rajdeep | that is where i spent most of the time | 17:08 |
| pballand | unfortunately, I got pulled 20 different ways over the last 2 weeks, and did not make any progress :( | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | pballand: understood. We really need at least some progress on that front so that others can pick up slack. | 17:09 |
| pballand | understood - it is on the top of my stack | 17:09 |
| pballand | I hope to have better news to report soon | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | kudva: can you report on your builtin proposal? | 17:10 |
| kudva | Yes, I sent a policy document very early version to the mailing list (pdf) | 17:10 |
| kudva | Need feedback | 17:10 |
| kudva | Then, I can put together a small code prototype | 17:10 |
| kudva | implementation | 17:11 |
| kudva | But first, I wanted the team to agree, give me feedback | 17:11 |
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| thinrichs | So let's all make an effort over the next couple of days to look at the proposal and give feedback. | 17:11 |
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| kudva | That would be terrific | 17:11 |
| rajdeep | it will be easier if it is a google doc | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | #action Everyone will look at the builtin proposal and provide feedback. | 17:12 |
| rajdeep | easier to collaborate | 17:12 |
| kudva | I can do that. | 17:12 |
| kudva | sure | 17:12 |
| kudva | Will make it a google doc and send a link | 17:12 |
| rajdeep | great | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | I think that was the last action item. | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | Let's do a quick review of the outstanding tasks for an alpha release and divvy up work for those who have cycles. | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | #topic Status update on alpha release. | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status update on alpha release. (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:14 | |
| thinrichs | One of the chunks we're missing is the Plexxi codebase that enables the data sources to communicate with the policy engine. | 17:14 |
| thinrichs | This morning I sent them a note to push that along. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | I'll take responsibility for getting that done, hopefully sooner than later. | 17:15 |
| rajdeep | is there a time frame in which it will be done | 17:15 |
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| thinrichs | I'm aiming for end of the week. I'm hoping to getting the alpha release out by the OpenStack summit. | 17:16 |
| pballand | I am still committed to rewriting the API framework and runtime loop - aiming for last week :-/ | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | And it will take some time to get that part, in particular, integrated. | 17:16 |
| pballand | serious estimate is middle of next week | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will help Plexxi integrate their code | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | #action pballand will get the API framework in place | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | There's also the issue of adding a Nova datasource driver. | 17:17 |
| rajdeep | i was planning to do that later this week / next week | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | Great! | 17:18 |
| rajdeep | atleast get few API mappings done | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | #action rajdeep will work on a Nova datasource driver | 17:18 |
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| thinrichs | Forgot that once we get Plexxi merged we'll need to start the integration of that. | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | Not sure that we'll have time to start the integration before the next meeting, so I'll take that as a possible action item. | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will begin integration with Plexxi codebase, if possible | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | The final must-have on my list is some performance analysis/improvements. | 17:21 |
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| thinrichs | Until we have more integration in place, this one will likely need to wait. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | There are some other things that would be nice to get in place (actually executing actions, persisting policy/logging), but we all have full plates for now. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | Am I missing anything important for the alpha release? | 17:22 |
| rajdeep | how will executing actions talk to data sources? | 17:23 |
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| thinrichs | rajdeep: TBD--I expect the policy engine will publish the request for an action execution on the Plexxi bus. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | And whoever is listening on that bus will execute it. | 17:24 |
| rajdeep | ok, i guess we can wait for this discussion | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | Yes--a good idea to wait until we know more about the Plexxi code and how it works. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | Okay, so it sounds like we have good coverage for the alpha, as far as we can tell. | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | Let's move to open discussion. | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | #topic Open discussion | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:26 | |
| pballand | I submitted a proposal for Congress in the Open Source track in Atlanta (http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/03/call-for-proposals-open-source-openstack-summit/) - still waiting to hear on whether it was accepted | 17:26 |
| pballand | just and FYI | 17:26 |
| pballand | s/and/an/ | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. Is it an hour-long or what? | 17:27 |
| rajdeep | Do we have any projects around Congress? List of wish list we are currently not working on | 17:27 |
| pballand | don’t know yet - but I expect plenty of conversations whether we have a room or not, so it would be great to have the space :) | 17:27 |
| pballand | what do you mean by “projects”? | 17:28 |
| rajdeep | i meant student / intern projects | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | Not that I know of. We're talking with several academics though. | 17:29 |
| thinrichs | There should be interest there eventually. | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | Does anyone know of other people we should be reaching out to that might be interested in contributing to Congress? | 17:31 |
| rajdeep | there is a policy project starting at UCSB | 17:31 |
| rajdeep | focussed on policy for platform as a service | 17:31 |
| rajdeep | i met this team at a conference | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | I was just down at SB this weekend. Should have stopped by :) | 17:32 |
| rajdeep | i can introduce you to them | 17:33 |
| rajdeep | this team built appscale | 17:33 |
| rajdeep | http://www.appscale.com/ | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. Introduce us via email if you would. | 17:33 |
| rajdeep | sure. | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | kudva: mind telling us how you heard about the project and got involved? Anything else we should be doing? | 17:35 |
| kudva | We are working on policies here | 17:35 |
| kudva | and also extensively with Openstack | 17:35 |
| kudva | So, I looked up the project for policy automation in Openstack | 17:36 |
| kudva | For us the most important are a common infrastructure for all kinds of policies | 17:36 |
| kudva | compliance, resilience, .... | 17:36 |
| pballand | We’ve had substantial interest from lots of users and vendors, but are still trying to push for more developer involvement... | 17:37 |
| kudva | So, my interest is to have a common policy support part which is separate from the application part | 17:37 |
| pballand | kudva: that sounds like a perfect fit :) | 17:38 |
| kudva | Yes, a core engine that does all the datalog/logic programming part, and then many offshoots in different areas | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | So it sounds like we need people to realize that having policy separate from application/networking/compute/etc. would help us. | 17:38 |
| kudva | yes, looking forward to contributing more | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | That's helpful! | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | Getting an alpha out may help us quite a bit. Then we can give people something to play with, and hopefully let them get a feel for what we're aiming at. | 17:40 |
| pballand | thinrichs: agreed - (easily) usable examples are key | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | Anything else today? | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | Good discussion and progress today. Let's keep it up and follow up on the ML as need be. | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | Thanks all! | 17:41 |
| kudva | thanks!! | 17:41 |
| rajdeep | thanks all | 17:42 |
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| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 17:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 17:42:17 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-04-08-17.02.html | 17:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-04-08-17.02.txt | 17:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-04-08-17.02.log.html | 17:42 |
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| edleafe | I think this will be a light crowd this week | 19:00 |
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| edleafe | So let's get underway | 19:00 |
| edleafe | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 19:00:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| edleafe | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK#Agenda_for_2014-04-08_1900_UTC | 19:00 |
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| edleafe | #topic Roll Call | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:01 | |
| dtroyer | Hey all, Dean Troyer, Nebula | 19:01 |
| edleafe | To start, will everyone here for the Python OpenStack SDK meeting please state their name and business affiliation? | 19:01 |
| terrylhowe | Terry Howe, HP | 19:01 |
| wchrisj | Chris Johnson, HP | 19:01 |
| edleafe | Ed Leafe, Rackspace | 19:01 |
| edleafe | I know that Brian Curtin and Alex Gaynor are both in transit to PyCon, and won't be joining us | 19:02 |
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| wchrisj | wow - light crowd indeed | 19:02 |
| edleafe | yeah, and probably next week, too | 19:02 |
| jamielennox | Jamie Lennox, Red Hat | 19:02 |
| * dolphm is always lurking | 19:03 | |
| wchrisj | always! | 19:03 |
| * edleafe is always keeping an eye out for dolphm | 19:03 | |
| wchrisj | lol | 19:03 |
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| * dolphm always. *shifty eyes* | 19:03 | |
| edleafe | #topic Discussion of base class code | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of base class code (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:04 | |
| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85720/ | 19:04 |
| edleafe | I pushed this code to start the discussion of the proposed class design | 19:04 |
| edleafe | thanks to terrylhowe for some initial feedback | 19:04 |
| edleafe | has anyone else had a chance to review it? | 19:04 |
| dtroyer | I have had a quick look, not in detail | 19:04 |
| terrylhowe | looks good in general I thought, I’m excited to have something to work with | 19:04 |
| dtroyer | it seems to be very similar to the existing lib's architecture? | 19:05 |
| jamielennox | so i thought (was hoping) we were looking at a more ORM approach? | 19:05 |
| edleafe | I deliberately left out the details of session/context/identity - that can be determined later | 19:05 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: that was someone else's proposal, I believe | 19:06 |
| jamielennox | having worked with the current libs i'm not a big fan of the manager layer | 19:06 |
| edleafe | but I don't see how that couldn't be added to this design if it was desired | 19:06 |
| dtroyer | IIRC having HTTP methods in both the manager resource classes contributes to some of the difficulties we've seen | 19:06 |
| dtroyer | manager *and* resource... | 19:07 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: ++, we've had problems with the resource calling back to the manager with itself as an argument | 19:07 |
| edleafe | In this code, resource has no http methods | 19:08 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: wasn't the issue that the references were not being cleaned up? | 19:08 |
| dtroyer | BaseResource.get() and BaseResource.delete() look like that to me | 19:08 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: that was an issue of keystoneclient, not the same issue though | 19:09 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: ah, ok | 19:09 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: they delegate everything to the manager | 19:09 |
| edleafe | manager is the only class that talks to http | 19:09 |
| dtroyer | right, but that requires the linkage that has been part of the problem | 19:09 |
| edleafe | so what would be a better way? | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | or have I misunderstood the problem? | 19:10 |
| edleafe | I'm not sure I understand the problem | 19:11 |
| dtroyer | I'm in favor of either managers or resources, I'm not convinced we need both | 19:11 |
| edleafe | I thought it was circular references to the client | 19:11 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: not sure I can picture that. What would managers return? | 19:11 |
| edleafe | or does every resource have the full manager code within it? | 19:12 |
| dtroyer | dicts. that's the other extreme to the direction jamielennox was asking about | 19:12 |
| dtroyer | I'm happy with using Resource classes, but they should only know about themselves. I think including linkage for them to be able to reload themselved, or whatever, is too much | 19:13 |
| edleafe | I've used SDKs that return primitives. I always end up writing a wrapper around them to create objects I can work with in code | 19:13 |
| dtroyer | so that goes into a higher layer API…we've talked about that before | 19:13 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: sure but you should write the primatives first and the wrappers when you understand the problem | 19:14 |
| dtroyer | or are you proposing that and we build the primities below this? | 19:14 |
| jamielennox | s/understand/more experience with | 19:14 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: so you would always have to pass in the full resource to the client/session | 19:15 |
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| edleafe | e.g., if you have a swift object, you need to pass its container and the object (or an object with a container reference) to the client to delete/update the object? | 19:16 |
| dtroyer | if you have a swift object resource, presumably you needed a container to get it in the first place or will need one to create the object. even if you hide that by putting the verb in the resource, it doesn't change the fact that the API requires a container | 19:17 |
| terrylhowe | well, swift is an odd case | 19:17 |
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| notmyname | ? | 19:18 |
| edleafe | terrylhowe: true, but there are other nested resources (databases on trove instances, e.g.) | 19:18 |
| dtroyer | whether the object class knows it's container is a design detail, but they are both resources and we know there will be other resources that need to know about other resources so that isn't going to be unusual | 19:18 |
| dtroyer | for the primitive (I like that word to describe the 'lower layer') too much magic anywhere is not a good thing... | 19:19 |
| edleafe | Can anyone describe the problem with resources having a reference to their manager? Is it simply a circular reference thing, or is there some other bad juju going on? | 19:20 |
| dtroyer | I think that is complicated by the relationship between managers and the various client objects. that may not be a problem here, which is why I asked, I don;t think I know enough about it to say | 19:21 |
| bknudson | the problem is the circular reference and keeping a connection open to the servers | 19:21 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: so if the manager didn't own/posess/control/whatever the session that should be avoidable here? | 19:21 |
| bknudson | dtroyer: right, that would be fine | 19:22 |
| dtroyer | ok, cool. I think I have the issue straight in my head then | 19:22 |
| edleafe | thanks bknudson | 19:22 |
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| bknudson | no problem, we ran into this with horizon / keystone recently | 19:23 |
| edleafe | so the reason for separating out the http class is so that it could live wherever it fit best | 19:23 |
| edleafe | and also so it could be stubbed out in testing | 19:23 |
| bknudson | worked around it by disabling connection pooling | 19:23 |
| jamielennox | isn't the http module essentially the session object? | 19:24 |
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| wchrisj | that's my understanding jamielennox | 19:24 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: yeah, pretty much | 19:24 |
| edleafe | bare bones | 19:24 |
| edleafe | just enough to get it to work | 19:24 |
| jamielennox | was that merged? | 19:24 |
| wchrisj | I asked that very question 2 weeks ago | 19:24 |
| terrylhowe | yes, but it doesn’t have the auth token yet | 19:25 |
| wchrisj | why terrylhowe | 19:25 |
| wchrisj | ? | 19:25 |
| terrylhowe | well, I don’t want to get off topic | 19:25 |
| wchrisj | ok | 19:26 |
| edleafe | #topic session class status | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "session class status (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:26 | |
| edleafe | now you're on topic | 19:26 |
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| edleafe | ;-) | 19:26 |
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| terrylhowe | I didn’t know if dtroyer was planning on adding the auth token to the session | 19:27 |
| bknudson | is there doc on the session class? | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | I am but I was working on api discovery first | 19:27 |
| jamielennox | the session was mostly taken from keystoneclient, and i assume dtroyer was holding off on the auth plugins - though he might have different ideas on how session/auth relate | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | bknudson: only those bits I had in an early patchset so far | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | I was waiting on the auth to settle down a bit. then jamielennox and I are going to have a contest in Atlanta to see who wins… ;) | 19:28 |
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| bknudson | since you're not awake at the same time just hand off | 19:29 |
| edleafe | Do we have a description on how the API discovery will work? | 19:29 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: grecko roman? | 19:29 |
| edleafe | simply derived from the service catalog, or is there more to it? | 19:30 |
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| terrylhowe | well, he is getting the versions from the endpoint | 19:31 |
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| dtroyer | edleafe: not a comprehensive one yet. I plan to revive https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ with more of the knowledge moved into the version class…hopefully soon | 19:31 |
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| edleafe | dtroyer: Can you do a blueprint for this? | 19:32 |
| dtroyer | jamielennox: kart racing… Atl is in the heart of NASCAR country after all... | 19:32 |
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| wchrisj | IIRC the discovery object/class will factory up a Keystone/Identity service class, right dtroyer ? | 19:32 |
| bknudson | could just merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82646/ and clean it up with separate commits | 19:32 |
| bknudson | since we don't have to worry about backwards compat | 19:33 |
| dtroyer | edleafe: sure. one of the things I started was collecting as much as I could of past discussions to get a feel for where we are headed as a project…need to get it into a clean form yet | 19:33 |
| dtroyer | wchrisj: generalize to any API and yes, or at least tell the caller which one to use if it doesn't create it directly | 19:34 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: ok, that's great. In the past I've found blueprint discussions are more productive than code reviews for new implementations | 19:34 |
| edleafe | #task dtroyer: blueprint for API discovery | 19:35 |
| edleafe | OK, let's move on | 19:35 |
| edleafe | #topic Other design proposals | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other design proposals (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:35 | |
| edleafe | Is anyone besides Brian Curtin working on an alternative design for the overall SDK structure? | 19:35 |
| terrylhowe | not that I know of | 19:36 |
| jamielennox | i'll have a crack at an ORM based resource - just to flesh it out for discussion | 19:36 |
| jamielennox | will be up before next meeting | 19:37 |
| terrylhowe | I would like to see that | 19:37 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: cool | 19:37 |
| wchrisj | I would like to see that too | 19:37 |
| edleafe | OK, so it looks like we will have two basic designs to select from | 19:38 |
| edleafe | #topic Timeframe/method for selecting design | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Timeframe/method for selecting design (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:38 | |
| edleafe | Any suggestions on how to make this decision? | 19:39 |
| edleafe | We need to have a good discussion of the base design before moving ahead, but at some point we'll need to select one and move ahead. | 19:39 |
| jamielennox | with a lot of these questions i've been assuming resolution will be at the summit | 19:39 |
| jamielennox | get all competing ideas up for code review, then debate the nuts and bolts in person | 19:40 |
| bknudson | is an orm interface at a higher level than the other interface? | 19:40 |
| wchrisj | jamielennox What sort of plans are there around meeting at the Summit? | 19:40 |
| bknudson | i.e., would orm require a lower level interface? | 19:40 |
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| jamielennox | bknudson: competing - but no i want it to stay lower | 19:41 |
| edleafe | bknudson: I don't think it has to be | 19:41 |
| edleafe | I was going to try to add one to my design, but time and all that... | 19:41 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: always keep these things low level until there are actual uses i think | 19:41 |
| bknudson | for example, sqlalchemy-ORM is implemented on sqlalchemy-sql | 19:41 |
| terrylhowe | I would expect the session stuff to be the lower level | 19:42 |
| bknudson | so session stuff either way? | 19:42 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: yea, i think so | 19:42 |
| edleafe | So is the consensus that we will be debating these designs, and not implementing anything concrete until over a month from now? | 19:42 |
| terrylhowe | that is a long time | 19:43 |
| jamielennox | when put like that.. | 19:43 |
| edleafe | how many people will be at PyCon this week in Montreal? | 19:44 |
| edleafe | (thinking we could have a pre-summit) | 19:44 |
| jamielennox | i wish :) | 19:45 |
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| edleafe | I'll take the silence as confirming that PyCon will not be the place to decide this. ;-) | 19:46 |
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| edleafe | So let's wait until Brian's code is posted, and we can re-visit this next week | 19:47 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: is brian's general design in a blueprint or something? | 19:47 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: no, it was supposed to be code | 19:47 |
| edleafe | last week we agreed to have close-to-working code for everyone to evaluate | 19:48 |
| edleafe | Brian is one of the PyCon organizers, and has been a little busy with that, though | 19:48 |
| jamielennox | that's fair | 19:48 |
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| edleafe | #topic Anything else on your minds? | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Anything else on your minds? (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:49 | |
| edleafe | We have about 10 minutes left | 19:49 |
| edleafe | Any other issues we should discuss? | 19:50 |
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| edleafe | Then I guess we all get to go back to work a little early ;-) | 19:52 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 19:52:23 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-04-08-19.00.html | 19:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-04-08-19.00.txt | 19:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-04-08-19.00.log.html | 19:52 |
| bknudson | Thanks | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | thanks ed | 19:52 |
| wchrisj | thanks guys | 19:52 |
| edleafe | thanks everyone! | 19:52 |
| jamielennox | edleafe: thanks for that | 19:53 |
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