Tuesday, 2015-03-10

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thinrichsHi all.17:00
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arosen#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 10 17:01:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is arosen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'17:01
bryan_atthi tim, this is bryan from AT&T17:01
thinrichsbryan_att: Hi.  Good to have you here.17:01
bryan_attjust going to lurk unless I have a chance to ask some basic questions about blueprints we are considering17:01
thinrichsbryan_att: sounds good.17:02
thinrichsI imagine we may be missing a couple of people b/c of daylight savings.17:02
thinrichsBut let's get started anyway with status updates.17:02
thinrichsarosen: want to start?17:02
thinrichs#topic status17:02
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arosenso i've been working on some improvements to the cloudfoundry datasource driver and extending it.17:03
aroseni've also been trying to tam the CI so it passes more consistently.17:03
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arosenbeen helping out/debugging a lot of internal infrastructure issues. WE're adding some more capacity to our gateway nodes so hopefully that should help.17:04
arosenthat's it from me unless anyone has questions about that.17:04
thinrichsThat all sounds great!17:04
thinrichsBetter CI is good for all.17:04
thinrichsMore insight into app-level information is always good.17:04
jwyarosen: is the ci turned off right now for reviews?17:05
jwyit didn't get run for something i pushed yesterday17:05
arosenjwy:  yea i'm working on that right now. For some reason zuul seems to stop working randomly.17:05
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thinrichsjwy: want to tell us what you've been working on?17:06
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jwyhad a review of the policy creation ui17:06
jwygot a lot of good feedback and suggestion, working on those changes now17:07
jwycontinuing discussions about policy abstraction for simpler cases with Yali17:07
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jwythat sums it up17:07
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shivharisjwy: anything available to play around with?17:07
jwyshivharis: nothing public, at the moment17:08
shivharisjwy: np17:08
jwyreminds me, i should update the func spec17:08
thinrichsjwy: do you have an ETA on when you'll have the latest round of changes in place?  I imagine you could push to review at that point and give people something to touch and feel.17:09
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jwythinrichs: good point, i had pushed everything i had so far here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160722/17:09
jwyshivharis: you could cherry pick from that and try it out17:10
jwythat'll give a basic idea of what the ui will be like17:10
thinrichsjwy: maybe it's worth mentioning a few of the changes you have in mind so if someone pulls that down to look they have an idea where you're headed.17:10
jwymaking some changes to the workflow, moving some elements around17:10
shivharisjwy: I will fiddle around with it. Thanks for the pointer.17:10
jwyshivharis: basically, the steps are going to be reversed so that the focus is more on the tables than the columns17:11
jwymore guidance to the user on what conditions need to be supplied if the user wants certain output17:11
jwyshivharis: of course, let me know if you have suggestions!17:12
shivharisjwy: i'll ask when i get stuck17:12
shivharisjwy: will do17:12
thinrichsalexsyip: want to give a status report?17:12
alexsyipI have continued work on an HA plan.17:13
alexsyipI have two plans.  One for the initial HA feature which is pretty bare bones, and one that is more sophisticated that supports scale out better.17:13
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alexsyipI was working on a test for the barebones version.17:13
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alexsyipWould it be better to write up a BP for the barebones version first ?17:14
thinrichsIt depends how complicated it is.  If it's reasonable to describe both in a single spec, that's fine.17:15
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thinrichsBut if you think the 2 designs each deserve their own spec, do that.17:15
alexsyipok, I’ll write up the basic spec today17:15
thinrichsSounds good.  The sooner we get it up there, the sooner we get feedback.17:15
masahitoIs this meeting for congress?17:15
thinrichsmasahito: hi!  Welcome.17:15
thinrichsmasahito: yep.17:16
thinrichsmasahito: we're giving status reports, letting newcomers listen in for a bit.17:16
masahitothinrichs: I see17:16
thinrichsmasahito: Then we'll ask newcomers to say a few words about why they're here.17:16
thinrichsalexsyip: anything else to report?17:17
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alexsyipNo, that’s all.17:17
thinrichssarob: You available to give a status report?17:17
sarobgive me 1517:18
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thinrichssarob: ok.  Pipe up when you're ready.17:18
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thinrichsJust this morning I started working on the policy-engine-trigger blueprint, which is part of the blueprint series to enable reactive enforcement.17:19
thinrichs#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/congress/+spec/policy-engine-trigger17:19
thinrichsOriginally it was assigned to Zhenzan, but he asked me to get things started.17:19
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thinrichsAnyone else have a status update?  (Attendance has been spotty of late.)17:20
stevenldti can go next17:20
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stevenldtI start working on the action execution BP17:21
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stevenldtI'm with Kishan's team btw17:22
thinrichsstevenldt: Excellent!17:22
thinrichsstevenldt: How's it going?17:22
stevenldtI understand what need to be done.  I just have a couple of questions for some details. And I can ask you offline17:23
thinrichsstevenldt: sure.  Is IRC good, or should we set up a voice-call?17:23
stevenldtI can go to #congress after this meeting17:23
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thinrichsGood plan.17:24
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thinrichsAnyone else have a status update for us?17:24
thinrichsOk.  Let's hear from the newcomers then.17:25
bryan_attwhen you get to AOB I can intro our work in OPNFV17:25
thinrichs#topic newcomers17:25
thinrichsbryan_att: let's do that after we hear from the new people.17:25
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thinrichsmasahito: Hi.  Want to tell us what brought you to the meeting today?17:26
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masahitoI'm interested in Congress, so I want to contribute for the code but I can't find IRC channel of Congress in the list: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC17:28
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masahitoThat's why I am here.17:28
arosenmasahito:  it's #congress17:29
arosenwe'll update that wiki17:29
thinrichsmasahito: Didn't know about that page.  I'm trying to add #congress now.17:29
thinrichsmasahito: Do you have any use cases in mind for Congress?  Or are you just generally interested?17:30
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shivharisi can go next when masahito is done17:30
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masahitoI just generally interested now.17:31
thinrichsmasahito: sounds good.  We'll look for you on #congress!17:31
thinrichsshivharis: I didn't forget.  :)17:31
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thinrichsshivharis: what brought you here today?17:31
shivharisi am new here. wanted to implement policy framework for brocade devices.17:31
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shivharisbut i will take on anything for now to get my feet wet17:32
thinrichsshivharis: do you work with Ramki?17:32
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masahitobut from now, I try to use congress in our Cloud so I think I will get some usecase in the future.17:32
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shivharisnot directly, but will if need be. i know him well17:32
thinrichsmasahito: that'd be great!  Real deployments help us a ton!  We'd be happy to help you get it set up and running, if you like.17:33
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shivharisi will listen for some time before i jump in - familiarize with the happenings first17:33
thinrichsshivharis: he's working on the Delegation stuff we're doing.  I just wondered if you were eventually interested in that line of work.17:33
* sarob can discuss incubation when ready17:33
thinrichsshivharis: sounds good.17:33
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shivharisi do have a general idea, will talk to ramki and find out more17:34
shivharisthat all from me.17:34
thinrichssarob: got 1 or 2 more things in the queue before you.17:34
sarobno prob17:34
masahitoThank you for having time for me during weekly meeting!!17:34
thinrichsshivharis and masahito: Thanks!  We're more than happy to help you get things set up, find a starter project, etc.17:35
thinrichsYou can always reach us at the openstack-dev mailing list or on #congress.17:35
thinrichsLooking forward to working with you both!17:35
shivharisthinrichs: thanks17:35
masahitoI'll contact you in #congress if I have questions.17:35
thinrichsbryan_att: want to give us an overview of what you're working on?17:36
bryan_attOK, thanks.17:36
bryan_attWe had an intro meeting with Tim and team at the LF Collaboration Summit recently, where OPNFV held a meetup. I lead a team of experienced standards types, with aspirations to pivot from sole reliance upon traditional standards toward open-source-driven standards e.g. through OPNFV.17:36
bryan_attWe are leading work e.g. in ETSI NFV and projects in OPNFV (Policy, IPv6). Use cases for "Deployment Policy" are at https://wiki.opnfv.org/copper/use_cases. Other types of policy related functions in development at OPNFV include Fault Mgmt and Resource Reservation.17:37
bryan_attthat's the intro - I have some topics for discussion  but they might take some time - I would like to intro them at least...17:37
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bryan_attI have been testing against Congress on Devstack and am currently working to integrate Congress in a SaltStack based deployment environment. I have some questions e.g. whether the "Standalone" install (https://github.com/stackforge/congress) is what I should base the SaltStack scripts upon. We will also include Congress in our Foreman-based installer17:38
bryan_attdevelopment (the front-runner  installer in the OPNFV currently).17:38
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bryan_attSo the 1st question is whether the readme.md includes the actions to install Congress on Openstack (vs Devstack)?17:38
thinrichsarosen: you still here?17:39
arosenbryan_att:  for getting started i'd definitely recommend taking the devstack approach17:39
bryan_attI'm past that now - need to use real installers rather than Devstack17:40
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arosenwhat error are you hitting?17:40
arosenthe all in one install should also work17:40
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aroseni mean the install without devstack17:41
thinrichsarosen: he's asking if the current Standalone instructions are the REAL instructions for OpenStack?17:41
thinrichsThat wasn't a question.17:41
bryan_attI'm not hitting errors just looking for basic confirmation that the readme.md includes all the actions to install on Openstack17:41
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bryan_attso I can add it into the SaltStack scripts and Foreman etc17:41
thinrichsarosen: I don't see things like saying the logs should be put into /var/log (so that logs get rotated)17:41
arosenbryan_att:  they should be17:41
arosenthinrichs:  right we'll that's up to who ever builds the packages per say17:42
arosenyou can git clone our repo and install and run the code17:42
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bryan_attOK, I will start with the instructions and submit any issues I encounter17:42
arosenbut it doesn't come with init scripts or anythinglike that.17:42
arosenbryan_att:  sounds good!17:42
arosenI'm usually always around in #congress or email if you hit anything17:42
bryan_attsecond is blueprint ideas from OPNFV17:42
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bryan_attWe are forming blueprint ideas at https://etherpad.opnfv.org/p/copper_bps. While currently very high level, intend by mid-April to have concrete input on what we think is needed.17:43
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bryan_attFirst, we are looking into how Openstack supports an event-driven policy engine. I hope to find out that there is a consistent design across Openstack projects on how components can subscribe to event notifications.17:43
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bryan_attThis includes the ability to manage the notification system ...17:43
thinrichsbryan_att: from what I hear there is a message bus that the projects share for events.  But not all projects put all relevant events on the bus.17:44
bryan_attI understand - second is any enhancements to data source drivers to use the pub/sub bus17:44
bryan_attSecond, the assessment of OPNFV use cases against current supported data sources and attributes may lead us to propose specific data source extensions.17:44
bryan_attSo I have a two-idea investigation underway: a basic reusable eventing system; and new data source driver patches17:45
bryan_attit may take a couple of releases to get there...17:45
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thinrichsWe'd love to have additional datasource drivers.17:45
thinrichsAnd convincing all the OS projects to make events available would be great!17:46
bryan_attOK, that's an overview. We can continue on  the congress channel and the list. Openstack - OPNFV interlocks on this would also be useful.17:46
thinrichsSounds good!17:47
bryan_attthanks for the time!17:47
thinrichsQuestions about that before we hear from sarob?17:47
thinrichssarob: what's the story on incubation?17:48
sarobthinrichs: so the TC is still working on tagging as the focus17:49
sarobi was out of the last TC meeting17:49
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sarobdue to board stuff17:49
sarobbut it is still the security team17:49
sarobas the test case to work17:49
sarobout the incubation checklist replacement17:50
sarobi will jump into the next TC meet17:50
saroband verify that we are still in the queue17:50
sarobalongside a few other projects17:50
thinrichsHere's an interesting thread about incubation.17:50
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sarobyup, ttx asked that we hold off make new project proposals17:51
sarobuntil sec team has run through the workflow17:52
thinrichsNevertheless, there are a number of projects that have applied.17:52
sarobrussellb is basically saying the same thing17:52
thinrichsI presume they won't be approved until the TC decides to start approving them.17:52
sarobthinrichs: that is what ttx told me and others17:53
thinrichsBut it may be that they take the applications first-come, first-served.17:53
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sarobi havent made a project proposal17:53
thinrichsSo we may want to think about applying now, so that we're high in the queue.17:53
sarobbecause they asked everyone to hold off until17:53
thinrichsDoug says he's found looking at the apps useful.17:54
sarobthe sec team beta tests the new workflow17:54
sarobim good with applying now17:54
sarobi was following our leader's request17:55
sarobill figure out what ttx wants us to do17:55
sarobthe updated version ;)17:55
thinrichsI'd rather wait to apply as well, but I also don't want to be penalized for trying to do the right thing.17:55
thinrichssarob: sounds good.  Let us know.17:56
sarobwill do17:56
thinrichsJust a couple minutes left.  Anything else?17:56
thinrichs#topic open discussion17:56
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thinrichsOk.  Let's call it then.17:57
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thinrichsThanks all!  I'll be in #congress for say 30 more minutes.17:58
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thinrichsI think arosen started the meeting, but he left.  So we'll need to wait til the top of the hour to end it.17:59
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etoewsopenstack sdk meeting here and now?18:00
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briancurtinetoews: not for another hour18:01
etoewsdamn you dst18:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings"18:28
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 10 18:28:39 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:28
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-10-17.01.html18:28
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-10-17.01.txt18:28
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-10-17.01.log.html18:28
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briancurtin#startmeeting python-openstacksdk19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 10 19:00:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk'19:00
briancurtinIf you're here for the SDK meeting, say hi19:00
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briancurtini flipped the agenda around two get quicker things out of the way first https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK#Agenda_for_2015-03-10_1900_UTC19:01
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briancurtin#topic: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162782/19:02
*** openstack changes topic to ": https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162782/ (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:02
briancurtinetoews: you can go first with these two reviews since the later things will take more time19:03
etoewswell...it got merged so not much to discuss i guess.19:03
briancurtinoh wait that just got merged19:03
terrylhoweI think we are g2g there.  I was just confused by the lame docs19:03
briancurtin#topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162761/19:03
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briancurtinterry just +2'ed that. maybe i misunderstood what i was looking at, but it wasn't far off so i'll take a look after the meeting19:04
terrylhoweIt took me a lttle staring, but I think that is the best way19:04
terrylhoweassuming we want to log redirects19:05
etoewssorry. gimme a minute....19:05
sigmavirus24I think I agree with Brian. Let me stare some more19:05
briancurtinwe probably should. i dont know how often they happen, but if it happens you probably want to19:05
edleafeterrylhowe: I think you're correct19:05
sigmavirus24oh wait19:06
sigmavirus24the redirects call _send_request again19:06
sigmavirus24so the redirect will be logged19:06
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sigmavirus24terrylhowe: etoews :thumbsup:19:07
briancurtinetoews: anything to add?19:07
briancurtin#topic PUT/POST differences/issues in our create support19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "PUT/POST differences/issues in our create support (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:08
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briancurtinterrylhowe: i havent had a chance to read the issues you created, but i saw they're there. given what we had in julien's review, any initial thoughts on what we should do there?19:09
terrylhoweI openned I think 5 tickets to document the places where PUT is used to create19:09
terrylhoweI kind of felt we should remove PUT from create at handle those cases as special cases19:09
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terrylhoweit is more than 5 resources though, I think there were 3 or 4 identity resources19:10
terrylhowethat and about 2 metadata resources in compute, server and image as I recall19:11
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briancurtinterrylhowe: the part that tipped me off was the ID arg in create. if we just removed that and allowed a resource to specify put or post, are we better off there?19:11
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briancurtini thought the ID part should only come in during update/update_by_id19:12
edleafebriancurtin: some APIs (swift, of course) require that you specify the ID. Those should definitely be PUTs19:13
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briancurtinah, yeah - that's one but we override create to do a put with the id19:14
briancurtinthe general case - REST-wise and otherwise - probably shouldn't have an id, right?19:14
sigmavirus24briancurtin: REST-wise, yes19:15
sigmavirus24I'm not certain if OpenStack's APIs agree with that though =P19:15
* sigmavirus24 hasn't done in-depth research yet19:15
stevelleas a generalization I'd say that's right but details.19:15
etoewsapologies. i'm back. catching up...19:15
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edleafebriancurtin: the general case, both in OpenStack and REST APIs, is a POST where the ID is returned19:16
terrylhowebriancurtin: were you thinking of letting resources specify a create_method = ‘PUT’ or something like that?19:16
edleafebriancurtin: but yeah, consistency is not there19:17
edleafeterrylhowe: that would be a sane way to do it19:17
briancurtinterrylhowe: nah, that would be to invasive to have to pass down through the session. i think something closer to what julien has put_create or post_create, but remove the ID first and clean up create_by_id19:17
edleafeIf you know the resource requires an ID and needs PUT, specify that19:17
terrylhoweI like that better than making the call based on the resource_id being there19:17
briancurtinterrylhowe: i dont think the base create_by_id should even have the ID. if it's needed it's a specialty, so override19:18
briancurtinrather, it shouldnt even be called create_by_id anymore, but rename as part of htat and shift its behavior elsewhere19:18
terrylhoweI’m fine with handling all the others as special cases that need to override create too19:18
edleafethere shouldn't be a *base* create_by_id IMO19:19
terrylhowethat way create doesn’t get cluttered with if statements19:19
sigmavirus24== edleafe, terrylhowe19:19
sigmavirus24(ignore the tuple unpacking error)19:19
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briancurtin#action move create_by_id behavior to not accept an ID, make ID-needing create functions become overrides19:20
terrylhowecreate_by_id is very strange edleafe I agree19:20
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briancurtin#topic Discuss API Guidelines https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/proxy_api_guidelines19:21
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briancurtinnow that we've built out a reasonable amount of stuff and have been toying with it, i want to get towards a consistent set of interfaces we can apply around all of the proxies that are nice to use. after writing a few things up in a few different ways, leveraging Resource.update_attrs has made for something pretty powerful19:22
briancurtinoverall, what i wrote up in that doc allows you to pass in an existing Resource instance and/or the attributes of a resource19:22
briancurtinthis code will make that work, and there's a little sample of what it looks like in action https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161550/ -- i'd rather debate the guideline doc itself, but just see this review as an application of it19:23
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terrylhoweoptionally passing resource to create_resource make conn.create redundant19:24
etoewsi'm still a bit iffy on the behaiour of create_server(resource=server_obj, name="different name")19:24
briancurtinterrylhowe: pretty much19:24
briancurtinetoews: is it that particular case, literally of create_server, or also of create_network, create_container, create_anything?19:25
terrylhowethe update is probably the oddest of our current proxy19:25
terrylhowepart of me things we should just not have update_resource, people could just call conn.update19:25
briancurtinterrylhowe: if we don't provide the full scope of operations at this level we shoouldnt provide any of them19:26
briancurtinif you have to go to another place to do a similar operation then it's going to make people jump back and forth19:26
briancurtinetoews: what specifically are hte issues? if you want to create 5 servers, call that 5 times with different names19:27
briancurtin*5 of the same flavor/image of servers19:27
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etoewsis there any difference in behaviour when server_obj already has an id and when it doesn't?19:28
briancurtinterrylhowe: additionally, the update_resource behavior is one of the nicest parts of it behind create. update_server(my_server_instance, name="my new name") instead of setting the name attribute and then passing it into a method on connection19:28
briancurtinetoews: we're calling create so an id won't be sent. it's using everything on that resource except the ID, plus your new name19:29
terrylhoweusers could use update_attr as well19:29
briancurtin(or whatever other new attributes you would have specified)19:29
edleafeetoews: is the confusion between object methods and class methods?19:29
etoewsedleafe: nope19:29
briancurtinterrylhowe: technically they could, but they shouldnt have to mix resource/proxy layer support19:29
briancurtinterrylhowe: they could freely use it, and will have to if they're working lower, but the proxy layer is there to take care of it19:30
etoewsbriancurtin: so the id of any server_obj passed in gets ignored no matter what. correct?19:30
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briancurtinetoews: it would be ignored by the underlying create call19:31
briancurtinit will not be an update operation19:31
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briancurtinand it'll of course be fully documented and example'd out to show what that usage is against others19:31
etoewsgot it. thx.19:32
terrylhowewhat I don’t like about it I guess is it gives two uses to about every call19:34
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terrylhowethere is a slight chance some resource will have an attribute named ‘resource’ and that will cause some complications19:35
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briancurtinterrylhowe: so that is one issue ive been trying to think about, and that's why that argument isn't named for the actual resource, e.g., create_server(server=None) -- i don't have a great justification for this other than that i think the risk of something using "resource" directly is pretty low, and i dont think it exists today19:36
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briancurtinterrylhowe: and on two ways to make every call - i still dont like that either. i see a little bit of value in the conn.action() methods, but not nearly as much as what is contained in the proxies. they're entirely serviced by the proxy methods now if these do take a full resource19:38
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briancurtinterrylhowe: i left those in the code and in the explanation of the guidelines to show the differences. i wouldnt 100% like if we had both, but i didnt want adding one to be a strict condition of removing the other19:40
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briancurtinas another example of what this looks like in action, i rebased that server_builder on this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160623/6/examples/server_builder.py19:44
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etoewsit's definitely nice not having to pass in an object all the time19:47
etoewswe even avoided doing that in jclouds land where possible19:48
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terrylhowethe update is the only thing passing resource in there19:49
edleafeetoews: same for pyrax19:49
briancurtinterrylhowe: yeah that's the only one that makes use of it19:49
briancurtinterrylhowe: er, delete does as well19:50
terrylhowethat is using the delete we have now19:50
briancurtinterrylhowe: oh wait, yeah it is. i thought i had changed that to use the proxy method. i originally had it that way to show the different ways - how create uses args, update uses resource, and delete uses the conn.delete19:51
briancurtinideally delete would do delete_server(resource=servers[id])19:52
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terrylhowemaybe we should have have a meeting later to beat up the proxy briancurtin19:58
terrylhoweblowing the whole thing up is overwhelming to me19:58
briancurtinterrylhowe: i'm ready for that whenever19:59
terrylhowemaybe just discuss one aspect19:59
terrylhoweI got a lot going on, so little easy things are easier for me19:59
briancurtinterrylhowe: in the end it's really just one aspect that applies to everyting else. the create_server example in that doc is actually the exact same API for the other actions, just calling a different method under the hood20:00
briancurtinterrylhowe: whenever you have time let me know and let's talk about it. i'm wide open20:00
briancurtinlet's head back to -sdks20:00
briancurtinthanks everyone!20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 10 20:01:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-10-19.00.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-10-19.00.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-10-19.00.log.html20:01
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