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| devananda | o/ | 04:59 |
| Nisha | o/ | 04:59 |
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| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 05:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 05:00:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 05:00 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 05:00 |
| mrda | o/ | 05:00 |
| devananda | good morning / evening / late night, folks | 05:00 |
| naohirot | o/ | 05:00 |
| JoshNang | o/ | 05:00 |
| ramineni | o/ | 05:00 |
| jroll | \o | 05:00 |
| rameshg87 | o/ | 05:00 |
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| devananda | this is a pretty rough meeting time for some of us, and I suspect we'll be missing several folks | 05:01 |
| devananda | ... but let's give them a couple more minutes before we dive in | 05:02 |
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| * jroll rubs his eyes | 05:02 | |
| wanyen | o/ | 05:02 |
| * rameshg87 gives jroll a glass of water :) | 05:02 | |
| lintan | o\ | 05:02 |
| devananda | nothing specific got added to the agenda last week, and I'm sure we're all focusing on kilo-3 right now | 05:02 |
| devananda | so i'd just like to go over that, answer any questions folks have about the release process, etc, since we have a lot of new folks this cycle | 05:03 |
| devananda | and because that's all the stuff that's on my mind right now :) | 05:03 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: mrda and myself just added one more item to agenda | 05:03 |
| devananda | oh. /me refreshes | 05:04 |
| naohirot | devananda: Is Ironic going to be official project after releasing kilo? | 05:04 |
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| devananda | naohirot: "official" is a strange word | 05:05 |
| devananda | naohirot: what do you really mean? | 05:05 |
| naohirot | devananda: I mean graduating incubation? | 05:05 |
| wanyen | integrated? | 05:05 |
| devananda | .... :-/ | 05:05 |
| naohirot | devananda: sorry if I used wrong word | 05:06 |
| jroll | ironic is super official already, and has been for at least a few cycles | 05:06 |
| jroll | (fwiw) | 05:06 |
| devananda | yah | 05:06 |
| devananda | naohirot: sorry, I'm just a little tired of answering that question | 05:06 |
| devananda | naohirot: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/projects.yaml#n179 | 05:06 |
| jroll | naohirot: I'm curious why it matters :) | 05:07 |
| devananda | ironic graduated in Juno | 05:07 |
| devananda | and the TC has abolished the process of incubation anyway | 05:07 |
| devananda | so the point is moot now | 05:07 |
| jlvillal | devananda: Does Ironic | 05:07 |
| jlvillal | devananda: Does Ironic's status change at all when Kilo is released? | 05:07 |
| devananda | anyway ... we should continue with the meeting. anyone who's not here yet is probably not joining | 05:08 |
| jroll | jlvillal: totes, it's even more awesome! | 05:08 |
| jroll | awesomer status. | 05:08 |
| mrda | :) | 05:08 |
| jroll | or something. | 05:08 |
| devananda | jlvillal: we release another release with a bunch more awesome features? is that not enough? | 05:08 |
| jlvillal | devananda: Works for me :) | 05:08 |
| naohirot | devananda: I thought Ironic hasn't graduated, because Juno openstack manual doesn't mention about Ironic much | 05:08 |
| devananda | I honestly dont know what "status" or "official" have to do with "does this project do what you need" | 05:09 |
| devananda | naohirot: the manual has nothing to do with it ... BUT we should definitely contribute stuff to the manual! | 05:09 |
| jroll | naohirot: being part of the integrated release is different from graduating. but honestly, those shouldn't mean anything to the user. | 05:09 |
| devananda | let's table this. we could go on for a while .... | 05:09 |
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| * jroll shuts up | 05:09 | |
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| naohirot | devananda: Anyway I certainly understood that Ironic had graduated. :) | 05:10 |
| devananda | #topic Kilo-3 status | 05:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-3 status (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:10 | |
| devananda | #link https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/kilo-3 | 05:10 |
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| devananda | So. kilo-3 will be tagged at some point in the next few days, basically when everything that we think we will land has landed | 05:10 |
| wanyen | does that mean all the features on kilo3 LP? | 05:11 |
| devananda | I havav been bumping a few things, and will start bumping features much more aggressively tomorrow if the code is still in review / needing refactoring / not looking like it's going to land | 05:11 |
| devananda | wanyen: yes. that's the status page for the features we are tracking for kilo-3 | 05:12 |
| devananda | the core team has been coordinating on this etherpad, as we often do during review jam sessions | 05:12 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicReviewDay | 05:12 |
| mrda | FWIW, I don't think all of API microversions can land, so it's "Informational" state is about right. | 05:12 |
| devananda | mrda: totally | 05:12 |
| mrda | Just bad timing | 05:13 |
| devananda | mrda: on API microversions, there are server-side things and client-side things | 05:13 |
| devananda | we can clean up some of the client stuff later -- that's not great, but it's doable from a release mgmt standpoint | 05:13 |
| devananda | hoewver, we need to get ALL the server stuff done | 05:13 |
| devananda | so, let's talk about that for a minute | 05:13 |
| mrda | ok, thanks deva for the direction | 05:13 |
| * devananda wishes for a subtopic button | 05:14 | |
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| devananda | #topic microversions | 05:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "microversions (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:14 | |
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| * naohirot jroll: devananda: whether graduated or not is important for company to decide whether company commit to Ironic or not. | 05:14 | |
| jroll | naohirot: we should come back to that later (or in the ironic channel), but that upsets me to no end | 05:15 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: is it the topic that mrda and myself added ? | 05:15 |
| devananda | rameshg87: basically. but it was already something i wanted to talk about | 05:15 |
| mrda | rameshg87: that is specific to behaviour for one particular case, whereas this is a little more general | 05:15 |
| devananda | are there server-side changes we need in order to complete microversion support in kilo? | 05:15 |
| rameshg87 | okay | 05:15 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: yes | 05:16 |
| naohirot | jroll: I'm terribly sorry | 05:16 |
| devananda | rameshg87: link? | 05:16 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: and for https://review.openstack.org/163730 | 05:16 |
| devananda | right | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: had a basic question is on server-side changes, that's why we brought the meeting topic | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | the basic question is this - should we exactly emulte the previous behaviour for logical names (like in juno)? | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | consider for example GET /v1/nodes/<> | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | before logical names support (juno) - we give only 2 errors - 400 if the value sent is not a uuid OR 404 if node is not found | 05:17 |
| devananda | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163730/ adds logical name support for ports | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | after logical names support (kilo) for older micro version < logical name support - we give 3 errors - 400 if value sent doesn't look like (uuid or logical name), 406 if they sent a logical name, 404 if node is not found (only for uuid) | 05:17 |
| rameshg87 | is this behaviour okay ? | 05:17 |
| devananda | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164369/ adds a v1.0 base version which is equivalent to stable/juno | 05:18 |
| jroll | (to be clear, that's adding logical names for identifying a node to list ports for, not names for ports) | 05:18 |
| devananda | jroll: right | 05:18 |
| mrda | So we decided that if we tried to access an API that wasn't available until a later microversion, we'd return 406 Not Acceptable | 05:18 |
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| devananda | jroll: eg, GET /v1/ports?node=name <<< mrda, right? | 05:18 |
| mrda | we did that when we added name support in Ironic earlier in the cycle | 05:19 |
| jroll | devananda: correct | 05:19 |
| devananda | mrda: oh. I see. 406 because the header is wrong, not 404 NOT FOUND .... yah ... | 05:19 |
| mrda | but that breaks backward compat, because for the same input we previously returned 400 | 05:20 |
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| rameshg87 | 406 - because they sent something-like-logical-name which is not supported for micro version | 05:20 |
| mrda | "breaks backward compat" ick | 05:20 |
| devananda | so there are some implications of microversions that make me cringe. this is one of them | 05:20 |
| mrda | what I meant was that it now returns something different in that error situation | 05:20 |
| mrda | We need to choose. | 05:20 |
| devananda | mrda: relatedly, tae a look at the second link I pasted. it implements v1.0 | 05:21 |
| devananda | which we actually don't currently have | 05:21 |
| mrda | devananda: I started reviewing that earlier :) | 05:21 |
| devananda | our v1.1 != stable/juno right now | 05:21 |
| devananda | going 'back in time' and implementing v1.0 is, as dtantsur pointed out, breaking backwards compat slightly | 05:22 |
| devananda | if someone assumed that no header == some random point in kilo | 05:22 |
| devananda | which, for a CD cloud, is fair | 05:22 |
| devananda | but for a release-to-release deployment model, 164369 will help | 05:22 |
| devananda | so, these are both tough questions | 05:23 |
| mrda | I think that it's ok for us to return things like 406 if a new API is accessed by an old microversion is specified | 05:23 |
| jlvillal | devananda: Which backwards compatibility is more important. With a release or mid-release? If I'm understanding what is being said. | 05:23 |
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| mrda | it is s/is/if/ | 05:23 |
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| devananda | jlvillal: that's the question. I'm clearly in favor of release-to-release _right_now_ because we are currently following a 6-mo server release cycle | 05:23 |
| jlvillal | I would also vote for release. | 05:24 |
| devananda | whether or not that release cycle is good is orthogonal. we're following it now. | 05:24 |
| jroll | side note: I wonder how many CD clouds are out there where deployer/operator/developer are very separate, enough where a small break like this would be painful | 05:24 |
| mrda | yup | 05:24 |
| devananda | so I think we should favor compat between major releases | 05:24 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: mrda: with a new api, it's a different story, but how about something basic like GET /v1/nodes | 05:24 |
| jroll | if there's ever a tie, I also think release-to-release should win, as sad as releases make me | 05:24 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: mrda: is it the same ? a totally new error code is acceptable ? | 05:25 |
| devananda | jroll: if releases were more frequent, I would still favor that | 05:25 |
| devananda | *favor release-to-release over commit-to-commit | 05:25 |
| jroll | devananda: as long as releases exist, yeah | 05:25 |
| jroll | which they likely always will | 05:25 |
| devananda | jroll: we'll always have a release of some form, not just git SHAs | 05:25 |
| * jroll head in the clouds | 05:25 | |
| * mrda sees jroll standing on a soapbox :) | 05:25 | |
| devananda | heh | 05:25 |
| mrda | So, we need to decide. | 05:26 |
| devananda | s/always/insert longer explanation of thoughts here/ | 05:26 |
| devananda | mrda: indeed | 05:26 |
| mrda | Exactly the same API? Allow some differences, but only enough to allow the API to evolve and give useful errors? | 05:26 |
| devananda | rameshg87: if i understand, GET /v1/nodes/XXXX should continue to return 404 NOT FOUND if the requested identifier is neither a matched UUID nor a matched NAME | 05:27 |
| mrda | I think we decided the latter (i.e. review 141737 where we introduced 406), but this review opens it up for us to validate that decision | 05:28 |
| jroll | this is basically a matrix, we need a whiteboard | 05:28 |
| devananda | yea, we're not going to solve that tonight | 05:29 |
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| devananda | at least my brain isn't | 05:29 |
| devananda | mrda: rameshg87: can you sketch out the implications here on a whiteboard and we'll discuss tomorrow? | 05:29 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: sure .. | 05:29 |
| devananda | if the implication is "we dont support logical names for PORTs in Kilo" -- well ,that's not the end of hte world | 05:30 |
| devananda | it's a limited API | 05:30 |
| mrda | sure, FWIW, I think looking at it from use cases (ref https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163730/3/ironic/api/controllers/v1/utils.py) is helpful | 05:30 |
| jroll | I don't think it's a huge deal to land it for ports the same way it works for nodes today | 05:30 |
| jroll | and I think the big question here is "should we fix nodes" | 05:30 |
| rameshg87 | jroll: yeah | 05:30 |
| devananda | jroll: right | 05:31 |
| devananda | i'm not seeing the problem for nodes yet. /me needs to see the matrix | 05:31 |
| mrda | well, I think what is K will be the decision. So we'd better decide before K-RC-Final | 05:31 |
| mrda | :) | 05:31 |
| devananda | mrda: yup | 05:31 |
| jroll | so like, let's land the ports thing and iterate? | 05:31 |
| mrda | I'm happy to etherpad something up | 05:31 |
| mrda | and we can land 163730 and interate | 05:32 |
| mrda | iterate | 05:32 |
| jroll | woot. | 05:32 |
| rameshg87 | +1 | 05:32 |
| devananda | great. moving on :) | 05:32 |
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| devananda | #topic Kilo-3 status | 05:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-3 status (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:32 | |
| devananda | or rather, moving back to the main topic | 05:33 |
| devananda | I see a couple patches in merge-conflict ... hoping folks will rebase soon | 05:33 |
| * jroll checks if still in conflict | 05:34 | |
| devananda | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151596/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163572/ implement out of band discovery for iLO | 05:34 |
| jroll | two of them were not | 05:34 |
| devananda | I'd love to get some non-HP eyes on these, as they look ready to land, | 05:34 |
| jroll | JoshNang mentioned he figured out https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161453/ and is hacking on a devstack patch | 05:35 |
| jroll | (cleaning for agent driver) | 05:35 |
| devananda | jroll: awesome - i wsa just about to ask as I hadn't seen any progress | 05:35 |
| JoshNang | yah. also filling in missing tests | 05:35 |
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| devananda | that's a really crucial one, IMO, but if we need a change in devstack to be able to move forward, | 05:35 |
| devananda | it's going to be really tight | 05:35 |
| JoshNang | agreed | 05:36 |
| jroll | we can get it done, it should be a small change | 05:36 |
| jroll | one line AIUI | 05:36 |
| devananda | honestly not sure that we can push that through, but I'll do what I can to help | 05:36 |
| devananda | oh - heh | 05:36 |
| JoshNang | thank you :) | 05:36 |
| JoshNang | yeah, need the cleaning network uuid in the config file | 05:36 |
| devananda | smaller the better | 05:36 |
| jroll | and with depends-on we should be able to +A the ironic change whenever | 05:36 |
| devananda | JoshNang: we also need to be prepared for the Nova changes not to land | 05:37 |
| JoshNang | devananda: yup. fingers crossed they will, but no movement on them today from cores :/ | 05:37 |
| JoshNang | though, they didn't pass jenkins until mid afternoon. | 05:37 |
| devananda | i can poke a few cores directly, but nova's freeze policy is much stronger than ours right now | 05:37 |
| jroll | I think the best route, if nova changes don't land, is to disable cleaning by default | 05:38 |
| jroll | as horrible as that is | 05:38 |
| JoshNang | agreed | 05:38 |
| devananda | yea. it makes me sad, but yea ... | 05:38 |
| devananda | #action devananda to poke nova cores re: new cleaning states | 05:38 |
| jroll | JoshNang: you should poke a couple cores you know too :P | 05:39 |
| JoshNang | jroll: i will :) | 05:39 |
| devananda | there are also a slew of changes for the iLO driver, adding cleaning and uefi boot support | 05:39 |
| rameshg87 | and uefi secure boot too - that's the least reviewed of all :( | 05:39 |
| rameshg87 | would like to have some reviews at that .. | 05:40 |
| wanyen | ramesh87: +1 | 05:40 |
| ramineni | ilo cleaning is fairly simple - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/157715/ , should be able to land , hoping some reviews | 05:41 |
| JoshNang | last time i looked, that one looked ready | 05:42 |
| devananda | given the risk that cleaning might need to be disabled by default, would it be better to focus your work on the uefi patches? | 05:42 |
| mrda | JoshNang: can you PM me the Nova code review? | 05:42 |
| JoshNang | mrda: i'll put in channel | 05:43 |
| jroll | devananda: I think that code is still valuable even if disabled by default | 05:44 |
| devananda | jroll: ack | 05:44 |
| jroll | (but maybe uefi is more valuable, dunno) | 05:44 |
| devananda | hmm. the 'pad section for UEFi doesn't match gerrit very well | 05:45 |
| wanyen | devananda, secure boot is importatnt for ilo drivers | 05:45 |
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| * rameshg87 checks etherpad | 05:46 | |
| devananda | fixed, i think | 05:47 |
| devananda | there's also the cisco UCS driver -- looks like last revision was < 24 hours ago so it's still current | 05:48 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: the code is mostly in code shape except for small things - it needs more tests as per the last patch set (according to me) | 05:49 |
| rameshg87 | i mean good shape :) | 05:49 |
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| devananda | rameshg87: ok. is that stuff which can reasonably be followed up (ie, adding more unit tests) next week? | 05:49 |
| jlvillal | FYI: 10 minutes remaining | 05:50 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: if that's okay .. it's more like not all code paths in all functions are tested | 05:50 |
| devananda | i'd like to be able to include it, but on the other hand, the first code drop on that BP was less than a month ago | 05:50 |
| jroll | I'm inclined to drop it as it's going to be a distraction | 05:51 |
| devananda | yup | 05:51 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: most of the hard-specific code is moved to cisco's python library. so it's only power and management code mostly calling these methods. | 05:51 |
| rameshg87 | i mean hardware-specific | 05:51 |
| devananda | huh | 05:52 |
| devananda | it requires the cisco SDK? https://github.com/CiscoUcs/UcsPythonSDK | 05:52 |
| devananda | that's ... odd :( | 05:52 |
| jroll | why is that odd? | 05:52 |
| devananda | maybe just hte name is odd | 05:53 |
| jroll | (other than that library has zero tests) | 05:53 |
| jroll | yeah, I've never liked the word sdk | 05:53 |
| jroll | "word" | 05:53 |
| devananda | also, the library is a port of java code | 05:53 |
| devananda | anyway | 05:53 |
| devananda | i'm OK bumping it if we dont have time | 05:53 |
| jroll | oh man, don't read that code | 05:53 |
| devananda | that review hasn't been around very long, and a lot of other hard work has been done by folks throughout the cycle -- and that takes priority, in my opinion | 05:54 |
| jroll | +1 | 05:54 |
| stendulker | To all cores: All ilo secure boot patches have been rebased. Please have a look at these patches. | 05:54 |
| devananda | stendulker: thanks! | 05:56 |
| * rameshg87 notes 4 minutes left | 05:56 | |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 05:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:56 | |
| * mrda notes that rameshg87 and my action item is dealt with already | 05:57 | |
| devananda | mrda: link? | 05:57 |
| mrda | sorry, not action item, I meant agenda item | 05:57 |
| mrda | I'll post the etherpad link in channel later tonight | 05:57 |
| * jroll points out that people are working their butts off and I thank them for that | 05:57 | |
| devananda | oh | 05:57 |
| devananda | mrda: ty | 05:58 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: just to confirm except for the return codes thing which still needs discussion - we have decided to land the port's patch (for accepting logical names), right ? | 05:58 |
| devananda | also, what jroll said ... | 05:58 |
| jroll | rameshg87: let's review the patch before we land it :P | 05:58 |
| devananda | everyone is doing an incredible job focusing on reviews and fixing things rapidly :) | 05:58 |
| mrda | rameshg87: I'm taking today's discussion as a yes :-P | 05:58 |
| rameshg87 | i meant that implicitly :) | 05:58 |
| rameshg87 | jroll: ^^ | 05:58 |
| jroll | yeah, was a joke :P | 05:58 |
| mrda | :) | 05:59 |
| * jroll hears his bed calling | 05:59 | |
| devananda | thanks, ya'll! see you again soon -- after I sleep :) | 06:00 |
| lintan | good night :) | 06:00 |
| mrda | thanks everyone! | 06:00 |
| jroll | thanks everyone, good night | 06:00 |
| rameshg87 | good night and good day folks (which ever is applicable) | 06:00 |
| JoshNang | o/ | 06:00 |
| wanyen | good night! | 06:00 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 06:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 06:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 06:00:35 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-17-05.00.html | 06:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-17-05.00.txt | 06:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-17-05.00.log.html | 06:00 |
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| kudva | hi | 16:11 |
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| thinrichs | Hi all. | 17:00 |
| thinrichs | Time for the congress team meeting. | 17:00 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 17:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:00 |
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| thinrichs | kudva: hi! | 17:01 |
| kudva | thinrichs: good to be back, was pulled into another steep project, but back now :) | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Glad to have you here! :) | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Seems people are running late today. | 17:03 |
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| arosen1 | Hi | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | arosen1: hi | 17:03 |
| kudva | thinrichs: perhaps the time change. I got mixed up and joined at 12 pm my time, and noticed a few other who had joined. | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | I think this is the right time. Checking… | 17:04 |
| kudva | thinrichs: it was just my calendar... not the time | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | Are we in DST now? | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Yes—we're in DST. So this is the right time. | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Anyway, let's get on with status updates. | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | arosen1: want to start? | 17:07 |
| arosen1 | thinrichs: sure I can. I don't have much to report this week. I was out at half of last week. | 17:07 |
| arosen1 | I'm hacking on a demo that involves the cloudfoundry datasource driver | 17:08 |
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| arosen1 | and i'm roped into some other non congress stuff at work that has eaten up my time last wekk | 17:08 |
| arosen1 | that's it from me for now. | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | Cloudfoundry demo should be cool! | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | alexsyip: want to go next? | 17:09 |
| alexsyip | sure, I’ been working on HA. | 17:09 |
| alexsyip | I have a tempest test working that starts two server instances. | 17:10 |
| alexsyip | I found an issue with how congress configures datasources that will need to change with HA. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | HA sounds cool. Have a spec yet? | 17:11 |
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| alexsyip | I have a spec | 17:13 |
| alexsyip | sorry, I got distracted... | 17:13 |
| alexsyip | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163213/ | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | Let's all take a look at that, and leave alexsyip some comments in the next couple of days. | 17:15 |
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| thinrichs | jwy: how's the UI going? | 17:16 |
| jwy | unfortunately wasn't able to dedicate any time to it last week | 17:16 |
| jwy | planning on getting back to it later this week | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. | 17:18 |
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| thinrichs | Last week I added triggers to the policy engine. | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | This is one of the high-priority blueprints for this cycle. | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163645/ | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | If people could take a look, and leave comments, that'd be great. | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | The original owner of that blueprint, who asked me to pitch in, already send me some comments via email. | 17:19 |
| alexsyip | I’ll take a look at that today. | 17:19 |
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| thinrichs | alexsyip: thanks! | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | kudva: now that you're back with us, do you know what you're planning to work on in the near future? | 17:20 |
| kudva | thinrichs: I am very interested in the connection between domain-specific policy management and congress | 17:21 |
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| kudva | thinrichs: Would like to work with the team focused on this. Would like to implement a use-case | 17:21 |
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| thinrichs | Great! That's generating a good bit of interest from a number of people. | 17:21 |
| kudva | thinrichs: and help define the APIs | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | kudva: absolutely. Messages are goint to the openstack-dev list with [Congress] [Delegation] in the subject. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | s/goint/going/ | 17:22 |
| kudva | thinrichs: okay, will start participating in those discussions and pick something to implement | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | I know you already took a look at the delegation proposal doc. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163645/ | 17:23 |
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| thinrichs | kudva: I'm organizing a phone call for people to divvy up the work in that proposal | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | Late today I'll send an email to those interested about picking a day for the meeting. | 17:23 |
| kudva | thinrichs: Yes, that would be terrific, then I can select a piece of the implementation | 17:23 |
| kudva | thinrichs: thanks, that would be helpful | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | We have someone from France, so we're aiming for 8a or 9a Pacific. Does that work for you? | 17:24 |
| kudva | thinrichs: Yes, that's fine | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | It'll be good to make some progress on that front. We've been talking about it for over a year. | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | Is there anyone else with a status update? | 17:25 |
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| thinrichs | Okay. Open discussion. | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | #topic OpenDiscussion | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenDiscussion (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:28 | |
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| thinrichs | Quick meeting today. | 17:29 |
| thinrichs | :) | 17:29 |
| thinrichs | We all get 30 minutes back. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | See you all next week! | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 17:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 17:30:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-17-17.00.html | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-17-17.00.txt | 17:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-03-17-17.00.log.html | 17:30 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 18:00:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 18:00 |
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| briancurtin | if you're here for the SDK meeting, say hi | 18:00 |
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| briancurtin | hah, an hour early | 18:03 |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 18:03:56 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-18.00.html | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-18.00.txt | 18:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-18.00.log.html | 18:04 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 19:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| briancurtin | now it's really time to say hi if you're here for the SDK meeting | 19:00 |
| etoews | o/ | 19:00 |
| terrylhowe | o/ | 19:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 19:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 19:02 |
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| edleafe | o/ | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | ian and steve are in a training, although steve might make it, but let's go | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | #topic API guidelines | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API guidelines (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:02 | |
| briancurtin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/proxy_api_guidelines | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | so i refined that doc quite a bit, and want to move on with the easier of the things: delete and get | 19:03 |
| terrylhowe | I was hoping someone else would take a look at your delete proposal | 19:03 |
| briancurtin | there's a review out for applying delete at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164310/, and get will look basically the same but i do want to keep them separate | 19:03 |
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| briancurtin | one thing i think i want to change from what's listed is in update. i just saw steve at lunch and he mentioned that enforcing having a resource passed into update ignores the fact htat you could just do it by ID, so i might want to make that one update_resource(resource=None, **attrs) | 19:05 |
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| briancurtin | but anyway, i think we should probably do delete, get, create, update in that order so we're not piling on everything at once like i had originally written down | 19:07 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | so i guess i'll just ask: conn.service.delete_resource(resource_or_id) - can it get any better than this? | 19:10 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: what is the expected response if the resource doesn't exist? | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | I’d like some eyes on the implementation | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | probably 404 exception edleafe | 19:11 |
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| edleafe | terrylhowe: I mean from the SDK, not the API | 19:12 |
| briancurtin | we can debate the implementation but i want to talk about the API and get that ironed out. | 19:12 |
| edleafe | I don't see failures documented in that etherpad | 19:13 |
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| briancurtin | edleafe: we are talking about the API. | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | i want to define what the signatures for everything are going to look like. | 19:13 |
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| edleafe | briancurtin: So conn.service.delete_resource() is an API call? Something that the SDK would consume? | 19:14 |
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| briancurtin | it is the sdk | 19:14 |
| dhellmann | that's a function in the SDK isn't it? | 19:14 |
| edleafe | 404 is not a python response, it is an HTTP response | 19:14 |
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| edleafe | if I'm using the SDK and calling conn.service.delete_resource(), what should I as a developer expect? | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | again. we can talk about how it is implemented on the review for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164310/. i want to talk about the API. we have to figure out what the APIs provided by the proxy are going to look like. | 19:15 |
| etoews | edleafe: we're talking about the api of the sdk here | 19:15 |
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| etoews | not the http api | 19:16 |
| edleafe | etoews: so I'm still confused about returning a 404 | 19:16 |
| dhellmann | I think edleafe is asking a legit question about the behavior here. | 19:16 |
| terrylhowe | https://github.com/stackforge/python-openstacksdk/blob/master/openstack/transport.py#L265 | 19:16 |
| terrylhowe | ^ that is what happens | 19:16 |
| briancurtin | it doesnt return a 404, requests raises a 404. we have not yet determined how exactly to implement the API | 19:17 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: ah, ok, that's what I thought was missing from the etherpad | 19:17 |
| dhellmann | sure, but if we're talking about inputs and outputs of the methods then it seems reasonable to raise this | 19:17 |
| etoews | as in, considering how the sdk handles error responses from the http api as being part of the sdk api | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | it sounds like we do whatever the REST API does, transcribing the error to a different type, which means if the APIs are not consistent neither will the SDK be | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | etoews: right | 19:18 |
| edleafe | etoews: +1 | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: I like the consistency in the inputs from what I can see in the etherpad | 19:18 |
| briancurtin | deletes in general return no body, sometimes headers, so the general case is that None gets returned. i think there are cases where we can make some responses cleaner, but what would you expect to be returned here if there's nothing to delete? | 19:19 |
| dhellmann | I wouldn't expect delete to ever *return* anything, but the question is do we throw an exception if the thing we're trying to delete doesn't exist | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | well, there is a case somewhere i just saw that delete gives information in headers | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | I can see both sides to the answer. Doing nothing is idempotent, but hides potential user errors. | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: right, sorry, I would not expect the sdk delete methods to ever return anything | 19:20 |
| etoews | the current behaviour is to throw an HttpException with code=404 | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | this is a hard conversation :-) | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | etoews: right, and I can see lots of consumers of the sdk wrapping all delete calls in an exception handler so they can safely ignore that | 19:21 |
| dhellmann | how hard would it be to add an ignore_missing_resource argument to the delete methods in the sdk and use that boolean to decide whether to throw or ignore the 404? | 19:21 |
| briancurtin | is it useful to know that you tried to delete something that doesn't exist? | 19:21 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: I would think in a lot of cases it's not, but I hesitate to say never | 19:21 |
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| briancurtin | so then maybe delete_resource(resource_or_id, ignore_missing=False)? | 19:22 |
| dhellmann | so if we default ignore_missing_resource=True, we would swallow the 404 exceptions | 19:22 |
| dhellmann | I was thinking default of True, but yeah | 19:22 |
| etoews | it could be that a user expects something to be there to be deleted, and if it's not then something is very wrong in their system (e.g. some other actor deleted something it shouldn't have) | 19:22 |
| dhellmann | etoews: right, that's why we provide an option, but I think in *most* cases people are going to just want the thing deleted and if it's already gone that's ok | 19:23 |
| dhellmann | edleafe: is that what you were thinking? | 19:23 |
| briancurtin | yeah, defaulting to true is fine | 19:23 |
| etoews | ya. i'd lean towards ignore_missing_resource=True | 19:23 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: something like that, yeah | 19:23 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: I was looking at the etherpad as a consumer of the SDK, and that just caught my eye | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | is there any other general enough case that would happen when deleting besides the resource not existing? | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | edleafe: yep | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: I think auth errors are the only other, and we should throw errors for those | 19:25 |
| dhellmann | are the list methods already implemented? I'd sort of like to see all our methods have verbs in them for consistency. Maybe query_resource()? | 19:25 |
| dhellmann | or query_resources() | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | yeah auth stuff is handled off in auth land | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | dhellmann: we currently have some things written as list_resources(), but after toying around with a object store implementation i wrote that as resources() and it worked really well. i wrote about that at the bottom of the doc | 19:26 |
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| briancurtin | but staying simple, get is along the lines of delete in that it operates on one piece of info, an id | 19:26 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I saw. It caught my eye as an inconsistency, but I can live with it if everyone else likes that. | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | dhellmann: we'd apply all of them the same way, we just started down different paths originally to see what worked in what way | 19:27 |
| dhellmann | right, get makes sense for one, that's why I was suggesting a different verb | 19:27 |
| etoews | for get i would expect it to throw an exception if the resource isn't there. | 19:28 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: I'm not sure what you mean "apply all of them the same way" | 19:28 |
| dhellmann | etoews: yes, definitely | 19:28 |
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| briancurtin | dhellmann: compute.servers(), object_store.containers(), image.images() | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | whatever signatures we determine here get applied everywhere for that type of action | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: oh, right. And I was suggesting to verbify them with query_servers() | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | etc. | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | but again, if everyone likes the shorter name, I can go along | 19:29 |
| briancurtin | hmm, query might actually work with the filtering/searching query params that a lot of them implement | 19:29 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, that's what I was thinking :-) | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | hah, we're sort of jumping back and forth/ahead though | 19:30 |
| dhellmann | I do like the argument against using "list" | 19:30 |
| * dhellmann gets back in line | 19:30 | |
| briancurtin | is there any extra argument to give to get_resource(x)? like etoews said, if it's not there, i think that's actually exceptional so letting the 404 fly seems reasonable | 19:31 |
| briancurtin | can't just soldier on through your code without what you were trying to get. probably | 19:31 |
| dhellmann | when we say "resource_or_id" do we mean a uuid for the id part, or for things that have names are the names allowed? | 19:31 |
| etoews | do we want to use the generic HttpException in that case or resurrect ResourceNotFound? | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | or is it up to the user of the SDK to turn a name into a resource or a uuid somehow? | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | I was thinking find would be used to translate name->id | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | etoews: I like the more specific exception | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | I don’t think everyone should take a HTTP hit for that | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | terrylhowe: ok, I like that. too many options just complicates our own implementation | 19:32 |
| briancurtin | dhellmann: the way i've written things like this in the past are that they can take a resource.Resource and get the id_attribute value off of it (name where that applies), or whatever you have provided manually as an ID | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: right, and I was asking more specifically about resources that can be referenced by more than one identifying characteristic. Everything has a UUID, not everything has a name, and not all names are required to be unique. So allowing a search by name adds complexity that can probably better be handled in the application layer. | 19:33 |
| edleafe | id = resource_or_id.id if isinstance(resource_or_id, resource.Resource else resource_or_id | 19:33 |
| dhellmann | edleafe: ++ | 19:34 |
| edleafe | oops - forgot to close the parens :) | 19:34 |
| briancurtin | dhellmann: oh yeah. i think what terrylhowe said would work in that case | 19:34 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: ++ | 19:34 |
| etoews | and the user is expected to explicitly call find to do name->id | 19:35 |
| etoews | i think that's reasonable. | 19:35 |
| dhellmann | etoews: by "user" you mean "application developer"? | 19:35 |
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| etoews | yes | 19:35 |
| dhellmann | ok, just checking :-) | 19:36 |
| briancurtin | i agree with etoews. either you pass in a resource with an ID, or you pass in the ID itself, and we make it so you can get the ID by name (we already have something like it, need to beef it up) | 19:36 |
| etoews | the app dev should always have a lot of control over how many requests they're making. | 19:36 |
| etoews | briancurtin: i might have to rethink the orchestration stuff | 19:37 |
| etoews | in light of this discussion | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | yep, if you know you have the ID string, just pass it in and you're good, no extra calls | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | if you have a bunch of names only, you'll have to do an extra jump but we can get it | 19:37 |
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| etoews | it does a funky name to id http redirect that none of the other apis do | 19:37 |
| dhellmann | so all of the command line apps will always have to call find(), which means for delete they will need to decide whether to ignore the error for a missing object or report it | 19:38 |
| etoews | so to make it consistent with the other services might require skipping on the functionality. | 19:38 |
| briancurtin | to make who consistent with what? | 19:39 |
| dhellmann | etoews: does that meant it's not possible to just query the orchestration service by name and have it give an id back? | 19:40 |
| dhellmann | it seems like we could intercept the redirect, if we know that's how the API works | 19:40 |
| etoews | briancurtin: to make orchestration consistent with the sdk api of all of the other services | 19:41 |
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| briancurtin | etoews: let me know if i can help out with that. i havent looked at orchestration much but we've gone through a few sort of quirky things already | 19:44 |
| etoews | dhellmann: it's definitely possible. we just have to make a point of making it work like all of the other services. | 19:44 |
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| dhellmann | etoews: right | 19:44 |
| etoews | briancurtin: i wish i could point you at some functional test code to show you how it works compared to the other services. ;) | 19:45 |
| briancurtin | so in general, get_resource(resource_or_id) is cool to work with either a resource or an ID, but we also enhance the ability to get the ID based on a name. is that in line what what people are thinking? | 19:45 |
| etoews | briancurtin: that's not the impression i got. | 19:46 |
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| briancurtin | and? | 19:46 |
| dhellmann | I thought we were talking about a separate find() method that would search by name. Although we could to that with the query_resource() method, too, and avoid having another method. | 19:46 |
| etoews | app dev's would have to use find_resource | 19:46 |
| briancurtin | that exists | 19:46 |
| briancurtin | yeah they would | 19:46 |
| dhellmann | oh, ok, so find_resource is like get but takes something other than an id? | 19:46 |
| terrylhowe | id or resource | 19:47 |
| briancurtin | find is currently a name-to-id | 19:47 |
| etoews | sorry it's resource.find | 19:47 |
| dhellmann | ok, I think I've got it | 19:47 |
| briancurtin | terrylhowe: maybe find just goes away and get takes it over? | 19:47 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: -1 on removing find. | 19:48 |
| briancurtin | eh, now i dont like this. find sort of duplicate this. | 19:48 |
| terrylhowe | no, find is complicated | 19:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I wonder if we really need both? if get was get(resource_or_id=None, name=None) | 19:48 |
| edleafe | It's a much more natural name | 19:48 |
| briancurtin | find isn't necessary | 19:48 |
| briancurtin | but ive taken way too much time | 19:48 |
| briancurtin | #topic functional testing | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "functional testing (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:48 | |
| briancurtin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162210/ | 19:48 |
| etoews | i really need functional tests | 19:48 |
| terrylhowe | ah yeh, I was just trying to write a script to create a devstack we could all use | 19:49 |
| etoews | in the little bit of functional testing i've done it's caught stuff the unit test dont' | 19:49 |
| briancurtin | same times a million. ive been writing too many personal scripts i just run locally | 19:49 |
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| etoews | terrylhowe: that script will be useful but it's not 100% necessary to have before we can start writing functional tests. | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | is this cloud-init script the way the CI systems expect functional tests to run? I haven't looked into that yet | 19:50 |
| terrylhowe | there are gates that create a devstack instance, this is not intented to replace that, it is just for manually functional testing | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | ok | 19:50 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: no. stevemar built one for OSC that works the other way around…point it to an existing devstack and it runs the tests | 19:51 |
| terrylhowe | true etoews I just thought we’d want to develop some standard test bed | 19:51 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer: ok, I thought sdague was expecting functional test jobs to rely on the devstack plugin stuff, but if terrylhowe had something else in mind for this script that's fine | 19:51 |
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| etoews | terrylhowe: yep. i just don't want the merging of that script to hold up merging functional tests | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | AIUI the plugin bits are to get devstack set up, then d-g runs tox -efunctional. that's the bit stevemar setup does | 19:52 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok, I didn't realize we were using tox for that step | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | but I also haven't been too involved in those details | 19:52 |
| etoews | where would functional tests go in the tree? | 19:53 |
| etoews | i just want to submit some functional test code. | 19:53 |
| stevemar | dtroyer, yep you got it. etoews they are under osc/functional | 19:53 |
| briancurtin | openstack/tests/functional/ and then follow the same tree layout from there as unit tests? | 19:53 |
| dhellmann | etoews: we should look around at some of the other projects that are starting to do functional tests to see what pattern is emerging | 19:53 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: probably | 19:54 |
| terrylhowe | I was thinking so briancurtin | 19:54 |
| etoews | +1 | 19:54 |
| dhellmann | do we have a way for that test suite to know about the cloud it is supposed to talk to, yet? a config file or something? | 19:54 |
| briancurtin | i dont know if we would want to move the unit tests from being straight under tests/ to being tests/unit | 19:54 |
| dhellmann | briancurtin: moving them will make it easier to run testr | 19:55 |
| etoews | briancurtin: it's tempting do to that... | 19:55 |
| etoews | dhellmann: i'm just using env vars right now for that | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | etoews: ok, that works, too | 19:55 |
| etoews | the config that is | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | right | 19:55 |
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| dtroyer | dhellmann: it is simple enough to find the devstack root dir and pull credentials from there via openrc or one of the accrc/* files | 19:56 |
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| dhellmann | dtroyer: that works if the test suite is running against a devstack deployment vs. a real cloud | 19:56 |
| * dhellmann needs more caffeine before his next meeting, brb | 19:56 | |
| dtroyer | right | 19:56 |
| terrylhowe | os-client-config might be nice for our examples/testing | 19:57 |
| etoews | ya. we should have a look at that. | 19:57 |
| briancurtin | two minute warning | 19:58 |
| dtroyer | it's prety sweet | 19:58 |
| etoews | #action etoews to have a look at os-client-config for functional test config | 19:59 |
| stevemar | dhellmann, the script that kicks off the functional testing for osc also looks for a localrc file that has an auth_url/uname/pass | 19:59 |
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| stevemar | but it can definitely be improved | 19:59 |
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| dhellmann | stevemar: ok, so if I'm testing against something that isn't devstack I can always fake it that way, but it sounds like os-client-config might be a good option, too | 20:00 |
| etoews | stevemar: is the auth_url fixed? | 20:00 |
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| briancurtin | looks like our time's up here. back to -sdks to continue? | 20:00 |
| terrylhowe | those reviews are still out for osc | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | next meeting is starting, thanks everyone | 20:00 |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 20:00:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-19.00.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-19.00.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-03-17-19.00.log.html | 20:01 |
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