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| ttx | anyone here for the storyboard meeting ? | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| krotscheck | yep | 16:01 |
| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 16:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting storyboard | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 23 16:01:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 16:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 16:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 16:02 |
| ttx | jeblair: around? | 16:02 |
| ttx | #topîc Actions from last week | 16:02 |
| peristeri | o/ | 16:02 |
| jeblair | hi | 16:03 |
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| ttx | Babysit https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158434/ through gate to fix JS draft (done) | 16:04 |
| ttx | so it's fixed now, woohoo | 16:04 |
| ttx | #topic Urgent items | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent items (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:04 | |
| ttx | None where reported pre-meeting... Anything anyone wants to raise now ? | 16:04 |
| jeblair | o/ | 16:04 |
| jeblair | i still think the paging issue is urgent | 16:05 |
| jeblair | i'm just not good at updating wiki pages, sorry | 16:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162126/ not very urgent, but we need to discuss tat | 16:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | that* | 16:05 |
| jeblair | there are two aspects -- first, the fact that you can't see more than X comments on a story, and second, that without logging in, you can't see more than Y stories at all | 16:06 |
| jeblair | both of which we're spending time talking people through in the infra channel | 16:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's on the agenda, we can skip directly to that | 16:06 |
| jeblair | oh, sorry | 16:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: up to you | 16:06 |
| ttx | #topic Issue with paging (aka "lots of comments") | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Issue with paging (aka "lots of comments") (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:07 | |
| ttx | jeblair: please continue | 16:07 |
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| jeblair | well, that's about all i had. i put up a hacky change to at least return all the comments until there is proper paging support in the client | 16:08 |
| jeblair | this second attempt to address the problem does not change the api and has big TODO notes in the code | 16:08 |
| jeblair | er FIXME even | 16:09 |
| NikitaKonovalov | well, the workaround is so small and obvious, I dont's see much of an issue in it | 16:09 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: you -1d the patch; do you want to discuss it? | 16:11 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | The value of having is higher that waiting for a proper solution I think | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Nope. My comments are clear: StoryBoard does not have enough resources to accept regressions at this time. | 16:11 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: i agree -- it's a real problem | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | If you can hire more resources to contribute, great. | 16:11 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i don't think it's a regression; actually the opposite | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | You are welcome to disagree. | 16:12 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: it's a half-implemented feature, but it doesn't work without both halves | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | I welcome patches that fill in the gap. | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | In fact, I'm working on them. | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | But I only have so much time in the day, and StoryBoard has ben deprioritized within HP, so I need to manage my time. | 16:13 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: there's nothing irreversible about 162643; why not apply it now to make it more usuable, and revert it when the other patches are ready? | 16:13 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i understand, which is why i'm not asking you to reprioritize anything as much as accept this workaround temporarily until you do finish your work | 16:14 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I'll take the temporary fix orver the hypothetic feature completion at this point, especially if your work is parttime now | 16:15 |
| ttx | since I understand you can't promise any date anymore | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | I would be amenable to that if I see concrete progress towards allocating more resources towards StoryBoard, but at this point I have to draw a line on insiting that any new commits move the project forward, not back. | 16:16 |
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| krotscheck | Incidentally, I'm aslo curious about what private conversations have been had regarding that. | 16:17 |
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| krotscheck | Because it feels like I'm out of the loop. | 16:17 |
| ttx | nothing but the review as far as I'm concerned :) | 16:17 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: our first priority is to the usability of the system, so i believe we need to merge this and fix later. this moves nothing back and it does not hinder forward progress on the javascript side. | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: It's your prerogative as PTL to ignore my -1 | 16:18 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: understood | 16:18 |
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| ttx | for those trying to keep track of the score at home: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159515/ | 16:19 |
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| ttx | ok, let's move on | 16:20 |
| jeblair | ++ | 16:20 |
| ttx | #topic Manual data fix or migration with no downgrades | 16:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manual data fix or migration with no downgrades (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:20 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162126/ | 16:20 |
| ttx | Aleksey has a change here that will make current SB data potentially wrong | 16:20 |
| ttx | I insisted on a corresponding migration | 16:21 |
| ttx | Aleksey said he could do one but then the corresponding downgrade is not really doable | 16:21 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | so yep, we've got stories mostly with ids < 20000 that lack some fields | 16:21 |
| jeblair | ah, yeah, i think openstack in general is heading in the right direction by dropping downgrades | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | Doesn't the TC have a policy that says "no downgrades"? | 16:21 |
| ttx | so we could say that we don't care about downgrade (as the rest of openstack just decided) | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | Right. That. | 16:22 |
| jeblair | so i think the right direction here is to have a correct upgrade and no downgrade | 16:22 |
| ttx | just making sure we all agree that's the right solution here | 16:22 |
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| krotscheck | Works for me. | 16:22 |
| ttx | ok, we probably test downgrades somewhere so we'd have to disable that too | 16:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | btw we may think of cleaning up some strange stories with no authors as well | 16:22 |
| jeblair | we're doing database dumps and system backups of them, right? | 16:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | or tasks with no projects | 16:22 |
| ttx | jeblair: you tell me :) | 16:22 |
| jeblair | ttx: i will, was hoping someone else would confirm :) | 16:23 |
| jeblair | yes, they are configured. | 16:23 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so looks like the migration should be harmless | 16:24 |
| ttx | ok, so no-downgrade sounds like the best way forward there | 16:24 |
| * ttx adds to review | 16:24 | |
| jeblair | if we're ever really worried about a migration, we can ask infra-root to double check we have a recent working backup :) | 16:24 |
| jeblair | or even excecute a special off-schedule database backup | 16:25 |
| ttx | ok, next topic... | 16:25 |
| ttx | #topic Email spooling implementation | 16:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Email spooling implementation (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:25 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151413/ | 16:25 |
| ttx | That's another long line of patches blocked by disagreement on a review | 16:25 |
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| krotscheck | Well, I was hoping to get the whole story committed. | 16:26 |
| ttx | Jim thinks we should not be in the business of writing an email spooler | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | As in, all the patches up so that my argument could be made in code. | 16:26 |
| ttx | and therefore -1ed the head patch | 16:26 |
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| krotscheck | But priorities. | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Anyway | 16:26 |
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| krotscheck | The entire concept is that I wanted to separate the thing that renders the email, and the thing that sends the email. | 16:27 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: the danger there is that the disagreement is fundamental, and i would not want you to write unecessary code | 16:27 |
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| krotscheck | Because lots of things could go wrong in either step, and I'd rather not make one break cause the whole system to fall apart. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | The 'Outbox' use is just a convenient library that happend to provide a sane way of storing rendered emails. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | Which I feel makes it look like a spooler. | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | But, well, there's lots of different emails that StoryBoard is likely to send in the future. | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | And lots of different processes that might send them. | 16:28 |
| ttx | On this one I'd say that the incremental improvement would be to accept the patch -- even if I argue that this may be a bit too much technical debt and reinvention. But then it's written now. | 16:28 |
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| jeblair | i feel pretty strongly that the world has developed a number of competent MTAs, and storyboard does not need to implement another one. | 16:29 |
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| jeblair | some of the code may be written, but not all of it. and my objections were made over a month ago and ignored | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: not ignored. I clearly stated that I wanted to make sure all the patches were in before engaging in that discussion | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | Please do not misrepresent me. | 16:30 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: as you can see, that makes it much harder to have a conversation about whether this is entirely the wrong direction. | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | You're welcome to submit a counterargument via patches. | 16:31 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: that's not the way code review works | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | Would you like to take over the email feature? It feels like you have a strong opinion on how that should be handled. | 16:31 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: could you perhaps write a narrative for your vision of this so that you don't have to completely implement the feature in order for us to discuss it? | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | That works for me. | 16:33 |
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| ttx | Do we have a spec for that ? | 16:34 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: could use a spec or an infra thread, whatever is the most comfortable medium | 16:34 |
| jeblair | ++ | 16:34 |
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| ttx | Shall we move on ? | 16:36 |
| jeblair | wfm | 16:37 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on? | 16:38 |
| ttx | #topic "Pagination/search" feature priority and proposed implementation | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""Pagination/search" feature priority and proposed implementation (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:38 | |
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| ttx | so there was some diagreement on the need/priority/implementation for this when we reviewed the Roadmap a couple weeks ago | 16:38 |
| ttx | trying to find logs | 16:39 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov said pagination and search https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139638/ should be added somewhere | 16:39 |
| * krotscheck was not aware of that spec. | 16:40 | |
| ttx | then jeblair said he doesn't really want pagination at all | 16:40 |
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| ttx | I commented on that spec that it felt a bit overkill | 16:41 |
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| krotscheck | Pagination is necessary as a performance feature. Downloading massive datasets will directly impact client performance. | 16:41 |
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| krotscheck | Some user's resilience to slowness is different than others. page size should be configurable by user. | 16:41 |
| ttx | krotscheck: sure, but isn't there a way to trigger next dataset loads when you scroll down ? | 16:41 |
| ttx | i.e. "infinite" scrolling rather than paging ? | 16:42 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i agree that api pagination makes sense for performance reasons | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | In some cases, eys. | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | ttx: It doesn't make sense in the case of search results. If you're searching, users usually refine their parameters rather than paging. | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | ttx: It does make sense in the case of comment threads or feeds. | 16:43 |
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| ttx | ok | 16:43 |
| ttx | I guess I was worried when the specs creates a table to store user searches | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | Well, that's an entirely different issue. | 16:44 |
| ttx | just so that you can page through search results | 16:44 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: we still may use paging for loading comments, just without scrolling part, | 16:44 |
| ttx | as you said, that feels overkill when most users would rather refine search aprameters than page | 16:44 |
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| krotscheck | Well, this particular approach seems more geared at improving the performance of search queries. | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | Actually | 16:45 |
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| krotscheck | So let's make a quick distinction here between search and browse. | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | In the case where someone's looking for something specific, they are searching, and thus more likely to refine terms. | 16:46 |
| ttx | Maybe that's what this spec is missing, this distinction | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | In the case of a browse, they want to see a consistent list of a subset. | 16:46 |
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| krotscheck | Say: I want all things that are assigned to me. | 16:46 |
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| krotscheck | If I have 100 things that are assigned to me, I'm going to want to page through that. | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | (If you're jeblair, you might not want to page through that ;) ) | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | So yeah, that distiction may be missing from the spec. | 16:47 |
| jeblair | :) | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | As far as the implementation goes, the reason it's generating the result set and storing it is because there's a question on how you page through a dataset that is likely to change over the time it takes to page. | 16:48 |
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| ttx | OK, so it looks like we could use more iterations on the spec | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | One "RESTful" approach is usally to ask the server to create a resultset, and then consume it. | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | (So a POST -> 304 -> GET) | 16:49 |
| ttx | Personally I don't think we should page in the story comments/timeline area | 16:49 |
| ttx | since the first and last items are equally interesting | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I agree. Most of my changes in that area are contingent on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160462/ | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | (WHich merged) | 16:50 |
| ttx | ok | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | (So that now we don't have to load all the things and then filte rin the UI) | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | I'm also working on preloading results when the request is made. | 16:51 |
| ttx | so it looks like the spec really needs to be more use-case oriented, becaus ea different solution may be needed for each case (comments list, search, browse) | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Perhaps/ | 16:51 |
| ttx | yeah, "may" | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Honestly, I think this approach, though dev overkill, addresses most of the use cases. | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | Not dev overkill. Sorry, that's charged. | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | Also, I might point out that jedimike hasn't been able to contribute much since he updated the spec in december. | 16:53 |
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| * krotscheck feels this spec might be awesome, but ultimately not have anyone willing to build it. | 16:54 | |
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| ttx | yeah,ok | 16:54 |
| jeblair | it may provide a public service in shaping thinking around it, even if it isn't immediately implemented | 16:54 |
| ttx | Switching to next topic | 16:54 |
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| ttx | #topic In progress work | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "In progress work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:55 | |
| ttx | We have been updating the Roadmap as we go | 16:55 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Roadmap | 16:55 |
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| ttx | Good news is Tags are almost done, so the 1.2.1 targets are almost complete | 16:55 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the UI change is on review | 16:56 |
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| ttx | and aripinen is tackling a lot of the 1.2.2 things | 16:56 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but it's not working properly, as there is some parameter misunderstanding with API | 16:56 |
| ttx | any other in-progress report ? | 16:57 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | nothing new from me | 16:57 |
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| krotscheck | Working on bringing paging into the UI. | 16:58 |
| ttx | ok, quick switch to open discussion for last 2 min | 16:58 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:58 | |
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| ttx | Anything anyone ? | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | Also, I think we fixed the launchpad login problem. | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | Almost : https://review.openstack.org/165194 | 16:58 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: how did that manifest? | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair: User wh hasn't logged into launchpad tries to log into storyboard. | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | Has no username, can't log in. | 17:00 |
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| jeblair | cool, thx | 17:00 |
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| ttx | ok, out of time | 17:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 17:01:57 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-03-23-16.01.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-03-23-16.01.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-03-23-16.01.log.html | 17:02 |
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| NobodyCam | thank you ttx | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | #startmeeting Ironic | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 23 17:02:32 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is NobodyCam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | #chair devananda | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | Welcome everyone to the Ironic meeting. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:02 |
| jroll | \o | 17:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | Of course the agenda can be found at: | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 17:02 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 17:02 |
| jlvillal | \o/ | 17:02 |
| clif_h | p/ | 17:02 |
| stendulker | o/ | 17:02 |
| clif_h | o/ | 17:02 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | #topic Greetings, roll-call and announcements | 17:03 |
| rloo | hi | 17:03 |
| NobodyCam | Roll-call: Who's here for the Ironic Meeting? | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Greetings, roll-call and announcements (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:03 | |
| NobodyCam | lol | 17:03 |
| krotscheck | \o/ | 17:03 |
| JoshNang | o/ | 17:03 |
| Shrews | ohai | 17:03 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 17:03 |
| NobodyCam | hey all :) | 17:03 |
| BadCub | heya | 17:03 |
| JayF | p/ | 17:03 |
| * krotscheck is a turing machine. | 17:03 | |
| rloo | q/ | 17:03 |
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| NobodyCam | :) | 17:03 |
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| JayF | win 38 | 17:04 |
| JayF | sorry | 17:04 |
| NobodyCam | ok looks like we have a full agenda today | 17:04 |
| NobodyCam | #topic announcements: | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements: (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:04 | |
| NobodyCam | as Devananda posted he is in Grenoble. , I hope he's having fun :) | 17:04 |
| jroll | JayF: wow, ditching the meeting already | 17:04 |
| NobodyCam | Feature freeze in effect | 17:04 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/FeatureFreeze | 17:04 |
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| rloo | NobodyCam: also string freeze and dependency freeze | 17:05 |
| rloo | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze | 17:05 |
| rloo | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DepFreeze | 17:05 |
| * krotscheck read that as string cheese. | 17:05 | |
| NobodyCam | rloo: yes: | 17:05 |
| NobodyCam | #link //wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze | 17:05 |
| NobodyCam | #link //wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DepFreeze | 17:05 |
| jroll | krotscheck: mmm, now I want string cheese | 17:05 |
| jroll | NobodyCam: http | 17:05 |
| NobodyCam | Thank you rloo | 17:05 |
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| NobodyCam | :-p | 17:05 |
| NobodyCam | ok for my announcement | 17:06 |
| rloo | on IRC last week, devananda mentioned that even with string freeze, it was ok to approve string changes 1-2 days after kilo-3. Anyone know if it is too late now? | 17:06 |
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| NobodyCam | I wanted to thank EVERYONE for the awesome effort last week landing everything for K-3 | 17:06 |
| NobodyCam | Thank you one and all | 17:06 |
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| rloo | +100 NobodyCam | 17:07 |
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| jroll | rloo: probably a question for the i18n team | 17:07 |
| * BadCub seconds that! everyone was totally awesome :-) | 17:07 | |
| rloo | jroll: ack | 17:07 |
| NobodyCam | thats it for me and announcements anyone else have any? | 17:07 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: what about specs for L*? | 17:08 |
| NobodyCam | if not we'll move on to: | 17:08 |
| NobodyCam | oh | 17:08 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: I mean, are we going to announce when/if specs are open for L*? | 17:08 |
| NobodyCam | rloo: as in they are not open yet or bumped spec from K | 17:09 |
| jroll | when do they open, is the quesiton | 17:09 |
| NobodyCam | rloo: I do not think they are open... are they? | 17:09 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: yeah. I don't even remember the process for specs-approved-in-K. what do they do? | 17:09 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: I don't know if they are open. That's what I'm asking. | 17:09 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: maybe make it an action item for that-person-in-grenoble-right-now? | 17:10 |
| NobodyCam | I don't think we have opened L spec yet. | 17:10 |
| dtantsur | I guess we ask the authors to move a spec to L directory | 17:10 |
| dtantsur | (and rereview it quickly) | 17:10 |
| NobodyCam | I will see what I can do to track down the date for that | 17:10 |
| jroll | maybe let's bump this to open discussion? we talked about it some last week. can push devananda to send an email tomorrow | 17:10 |
| rloo | BadCub: do you remember? I saw some IRC chatter about it. | 17:10 |
| BadCub | there was some discussion last week | 17:10 |
| NobodyCam | jroll: ++ | 17:10 |
| BadCub | devananda: was saying we need to move specs to L folder | 17:10 |
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| rloo | NobodyCam: would you take an action item to track down the details and send email to the mail list about it? | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | #action Nobodycam find out when specs for L open | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:11 |
| rloo | thx NobodyCam! | 17:12 |
| NobodyCam | anything else for #topic SubTeam: status report (deprecated) | 17:12 |
| NobodyCam | gah | 17:12 |
| BadCub | NobodyCam: if you want, I can take that action and follow-up with devananda | 17:12 |
| NobodyCam | thank you BadCub | 17:12 |
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| NobodyCam | #undo | 17:13 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x9228750> | 17:13 |
| NobodyCam | #action badcub find out when specs for L open | 17:13 |
| NobodyCam | ok anything else for announcements?> | 17:13 |
| rloo | there is an etherpad wrt summit. | 17:14 |
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| rloo | but i don't have the link. | 17:14 |
| jlvillal | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-liberty-priorities | 17:14 |
| jlvillal | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-ironic-design-summit-ideas | 17:14 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-ironic-design-summit-ideas | 17:14 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-liberty-priorities | 17:14 |
| rloo | thx | 17:15 |
| NobodyCam | ok moving on. | 17:15 |
| NobodyCam | #topic SubTeam: status report (deprecated) | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SubTeam: status report (deprecated) (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:15 | |
| NobodyCam | Whiteboard wiped out, no posted status | 17:15 |
| adam_g | I've been working on testing the API microversioning within tempest and as part of the ironicclient functional test suite. patches here, comments welcome: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166386/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165665/ | 17:15 |
| NobodyCam | adam_g: you have a line item for that later on down the lisr | 17:16 |
| NobodyCam | list even | 17:16 |
| jroll | I don't think there's any big news for IPA | 17:16 |
| adam_g | NobodyCam, oh! | 17:16 |
| jroll | JoshNang: did the IPA cleaning patch ever land? | 17:16 |
| JoshNang | jroll: it did! | 17:16 |
| jroll | sweet. | 17:16 |
| JoshNang | like, 40 hours after approval | 17:16 |
| NobodyCam | :( ugggh | 17:16 |
| rloo | JoshNang: did it make it in k-3? | 17:17 |
| JoshNang | rloo: it's in IPA, i don't think we have a k-3 release | 17:17 |
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| rloo | JoshNang: oh, right! (phew) | 17:17 |
| JoshNang | cleaning made it for k-3 in ironic, waiting on the nova patches for rc1 | 17:17 |
| NobodyCam | JoshNang: I have not look at those this morning are they still on track? | 17:18 |
| NobodyCam | (the nova patches) | 17:18 |
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| BadCub | so far no activity on those (nova) patches | 17:18 |
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| JoshNang | NobodyCam: i have to push up a fix for a variable name after the meeting | 17:18 |
| NobodyCam | ack :) | 17:18 |
| JoshNang | but yeah, no attention yet. i'll ping in channel | 17:18 |
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| NobodyCam | awesome thank you :) | 17:19 |
| NobodyCam | dtantsur: do you haev a bug status? | 17:19 |
| dtantsur | Open: 148. 7 new, 34 in progress, 1 critical, 14 high and 12 incomplete | 17:19 |
| dtantsur | no diff today - lost previous version | 17:19 |
| NobodyCam | ya fungi is looking into what happened to our WhiteBoard | 17:20 |
| rloo | Open: 145 (+12) | 17:20 |
| rloo | 10 new (+7), 33 in progress (+1), 0 critical, 16 high (-1) and 10 incomplete (+2) | 17:20 |
| rloo | previous week was | 17:20 |
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| NobodyCam | we'll be talking detail about some of those in the next section | 17:21 |
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| NobodyCam | thank you rloo | 17:21 |
| NobodyCam | anything from driver status updates? | 17:21 |
| jroll | nothing notable for IPA off the top of my head | 17:22 |
| jroll | except cleaning support!! | 17:22 |
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| NobodyCam | :) w00 hoo | 17:22 |
| BadCub | I will be hunting down drivers that are not listed on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ironic/Drivers and asking folks to update | 17:23 |
| NobodyCam | ok then I expect the next section will take a bit so we'll move on to | 17:23 |
| NobodyCam | BadCub: awesome. | 17:23 |
| NobodyCam | thank you | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | #topic RC1 status check. | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC1 status check. (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:24 | |
| NobodyCam | Goal is April 9 to cut rc-1. - https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/kilo-rc1 | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | looks like 11 bugs tagged for rc-1 most in progress | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | we have four currently unassigned, anyone | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | looking for something to do, volunteers? | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/kilo-rc1 | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | two High and Two medium need eyes according to the status link | 17:26 |
| jroll | I know deva and adam_g were hacking on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1433727 | 17:26 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1433727 in Ironic "partial upgrade not possible, 'reason': u'Unknown argument: "configdrive" (HTTP 400)'" [High,Confirmed] | 17:26 |
| jroll | also I've never seen this one to be a huge problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1308680 | 17:26 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1308680 in Ironic "RPC receivers may starve periodic tasks" [Medium,Triaged] | 17:26 |
| NobodyCam | adam_g: can we tag you as assignee? | 17:27 |
| adam_g | NobodyCam, sure | 17:27 |
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| jroll | on 1308680, last real comment is "but the real fix for this problem should come from oslo, making periodic tasks to run in parallel." | 17:27 |
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| jroll | which makes me think that we can't fix this in rc1 | 17:28 |
| jroll | unless we want to re-use dtantsur's hack for conductor-level tasks | 17:28 |
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| dtantsur | yeah, Oslo is _very_ slow... | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | up to now my spec got 1x +1 | 17:28 |
| NobodyCam | jroll: want to comment on the bug, may be should be untagged? | 17:28 |
| jroll | -.- | 17:28 |
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| rloo | i think we should bump that to L* | 17:29 |
| jroll | sure, I'll let deva decide if he wants to untag it | 17:29 |
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| jroll | commented. | 17:30 |
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| NobodyCam | okay three more. we'll loop back to see if we can get any volunteers | 17:30 |
| jroll | (two more if we untag that) | 17:30 |
| NobodyCam | should we see if we can get a quick status update on the assigned bugs: | 17:30 |
| BadCub | I will follow up with devananda on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1308680 as well | 17:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1308680 in Ironic "RPC receivers may starve periodic tasks" [Medium,Triaged] | 17:31 |
| adam_g | re: bug #1433727, we need to decide how we want to handle the case where a kilo nova is trying to attach a config drive to a juno ironic node. should we error the instance build or let it continue with noop'ing the config drive (like we would have done with a juno nov) | 17:31 |
| openstack | bug 1433727 in Ironic "partial upgrade not possible, 'reason': u'Unknown argument: "configdrive" (HTTP 400)'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433727 - Assigned to Adam Gandelman (gandelman-a) | 17:31 |
| adam_g | *nova | 17:31 |
| adam_g | would love lucas's thoughts there, but looks like he's away | 17:32 |
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| NobodyCam | adam_g: I would say no-op | 17:32 |
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| jroll | adam_g: I tend to think we should error the build | 17:32 |
| NobodyCam | but others need to weigh in on that | 17:32 |
| NobodyCam | lol | 17:32 |
| NobodyCam | see | 17:32 |
| jroll | idk | 17:32 |
| * dtantsur summons Lucas | 17:32 | |
| rloo | error on build | 17:32 |
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| jroll | woot | 17:32 |
| lucasagomes | sorry forgot the meeting :( | 17:32 |
| rloo | does the user expect a config drive or not? | 17:32 |
| NobodyCam | hi lucasagomes | 17:32 |
| jroll | great work dtantsur | 17:32 |
| dtantsur | :D | 17:32 |
| * lucasagomes was busy on other stuff | 17:32 | |
| JayF | Can we not fix the nova driver to error earlier? | 17:32 |
| lucasagomes | what's up about the configdrive? I don't have the logs | 17:32 |
| adam_g | .:adam_g:. re: bug #1433727, we need to decide how we want to handle the case where a kilo nova is trying to attach a config drive to a juno ironic node. should we error the instance build or let it continue with noop'ing the config drive (like we would have done with a juno nov) | 17:33 |
| openstack | bug 1433727 in Ironic "partial upgrade not possible, 'reason': u'Unknown argument: "configdrive" (HTTP 400)'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433727 - Assigned to Adam Gandelman (gandelman-a) | 17:33 |
| JayF | i.e. to not even have a build to fail, but to prevent the build from starting | 17:33 |
| jroll | JayF: +1, that's what I meant, I sohuld have been more clear | 17:33 |
| adam_g | rloo, IIRC nova can be configured to do a config drive by default,e ven if the user doesn't explicitly specify one at spawn | 17:33 |
| adam_g | rloo, so you end up with *all* instances failing in that case | 17:33 |
| rloo | adam_g: :-( | 17:33 |
| JayF | I think it's important to fail earlier or to succeed without configdrive, i.e. if we can't keep Nova from accepting the build, we should proceed building w/o configdrive | 17:34 |
| NobodyCam | JayF: that was my thought too | 17:34 |
| jroll | adam_g: oh, that's right :| | 17:34 |
| NobodyCam | we didn't fully support config drives in juno so a operator should be expecting it be there | 17:35 |
| NobodyCam | s/should/shouldn't/ | 17:35 |
| jroll | but what about the user. | 17:36 |
| lucasagomes | in juno, even if nova asked for a configdrive we would just ignore in the ironic driver | 17:36 |
| lucasagomes | because it wasn't supported | 17:36 |
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| lucasagomes | maybe we should do the same if we see the ironic version doesn't support it | 17:36 |
| lucasagomes | just log a warning or something | 17:36 |
| adam_g | this gets to a later meeting point re upgrades and client--we need to define how upgrade story and figure out what we support in terms of ordering component upgrades | 17:36 |
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| jroll | I guess ignoring the configdrive would be fine | 17:37 |
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| NobodyCam | jroll: only for folks in juno land | 17:37 |
| NobodyCam | which didn't have support for it anyway | 17:37 |
| jroll | right | 17:37 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:37 |
| lucasagomes | yeah, well while we don't have it, maybe checking fo TypeError? | 17:37 |
| jroll | NobodyCam: but the user doesn't know what version of ironic is being used :) | 17:38 |
| lucasagomes | I mean if we try to pass a parameter that doesn't exist on the api | 17:38 |
| adam_g | i think it'd be okay to ignore it under the assumption operators will eventually be upgrading ironic from juno->kilo very soon, and we ignore it only to allow things to continue working during the upgrade | 17:38 |
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| jroll | adam_g: +1 | 17:38 |
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| lucasagomes | adam_g, +1 | 17:38 |
| adam_g | that could be release noted | 17:38 |
| NobodyCam | i do like lucasagomes idea of logging something about it | 17:38 |
| adam_g | NobodyCam, definitely | 17:38 |
| NobodyCam | adam_g: oh ya! | 17:38 |
| NobodyCam | okay going to skip the detailed bug drill down for sake of time | 17:39 |
| NobodyCam | please keep reviewing https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/kilo-rc1 for status of rc-1 tagged bugged | 17:40 |
| NobodyCam | bugs even | 17:40 |
| BadCub | should we be adding these bugs to the review day pad since we have other rc-1 stuffs listed? | 17:40 |
| NobodyCam | BadCub: ya that'd prob be a good thing | 17:41 |
| BadCub | will do | 17:41 |
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| NobodyCam | Thak you | 17:41 |
| NobodyCam | #topic issues needing discussion for RC1 | 17:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "issues needing discussion for RC1 (Meeting topic: Ironic)" | 17:41 | |
| NobodyCam | mrda-away: are you really away | 17:41 |
| jroll | probably :P | 17:42 |
| NobodyCam | so moving to adam_g | 17:42 |
| NobodyCam | python-ironicclient sending version header by default | 17:42 |
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| rloo | NobodyCam: well, I think it needs discussion. | 17:42 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: I mean, what mrda brought up. | 17:42 |
| jroll | +1 | 17:42 |
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| rloo | lucasagomes: I think you are familiar with the issue? | 17:42 |
| NobodyCam | ok | 17:42 |
| NobodyCam | HTTP error code changed by logical names patch -- https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-microversion-handling | 17:43 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-microversion-handling | 17:43 |
| lucasagomes | rloo, well I put some thoughts on the review | 17:43 |
| * lucasagomes trying to remember | 17:43 | |
| adam_g | so the issue here is another upgrade snag but in the other direction, juno nova with a kilo ironic: if a juno nova is using a client /w https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165559/ merged, it will send the 1.6 header to the Ironic server during boot and get node states that it does not understand | 17:43 |
| rloo | I haven't read it and won't be able to in 60 secs. All I see is deva's "I think 1B should continue to raise a 400 Bad Request" at the bottom ;) | 17:44 |
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| lucasagomes | yeah, basically if we someone tries to GET a node by it's logical name and it's not supported | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | in Juno it would return 400 | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | but in Kilo the etherpad suggest returning 406 | 17:45 |
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| lucasagomes | which is not backward compat | 17:45 |
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| lucasagomes | I think the idea of the microversioning was make it look like it was before | 17:45 |
| rloo | lucasagomes: and what's the rationale for returning 406? | 17:45 |
| lucasagomes | so the suggestion is to keep retuning 400 | 17:45 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: wht was the objection to returning 400 | 17:45 |
| lucasagomes | 406 not acceptable, other bits of the microversioning are using it | 17:45 |
| * rloo wonders when to bring up issues in meetings vs in eg mail list | 17:45 | |
| lucasagomes | when something that is not supported on the old version is requested | 17:46 |
| lucasagomes | but I think that for this case, we should not return 406 and just keep it as it was before | 17:46 |
| Shrews | yeah, i thought we agreed 400 must be returned to not break the API | 17:46 |
| lucasagomes | otherwise we break backward compatibility and the microversioning makes little sense to prevent that | 17:46 |
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| NobodyCam | Shrews: oh we did? | 17:47 |
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| rloo | I agree with lucasagomes (w/o thinking about it too much). At the very least, we can change it later (in L) if we think it should be 406. But it would be more difficult to change from 406 to 400 if we determine later that it should be 400. | 17:47 |
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| Shrews | NobodyCam: i might just be remembering a quick conversation (not an "official" agreement) | 17:48 |
| NobodyCam | Shrews: ack++++ | 17:48 |
| lucasagomes | the comment is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163730/4/ironic/api/controllers/v1/utils.py | 17:48 |
| rloo | but if feature X was in version 1.9 and someone used version 1.8, what should they get? 406? | 17:48 |
| NobodyCam | but here I think we are agree to continue to return 400? | 17:48 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163730/4/ironic/api/controllers/v1/utils.py | 17:48 |
| jroll | +1 on 400 | 17:48 |
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| dtantsur | what if we always return 400 instead of 406? | 17:49 |
| Shrews | also, see deva's comment on March 18 | 17:49 |
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| jroll | rloo: the difference here is, name replaces uuid in the url... it's not a new endpoint or field | 17:49 |
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| Shrews | and deva's experiment: http://paste.openstack.org/show/193128/ | 17:49 |
| lucasagomes | yeah, it's a paramater and not a new endpoint | 17:49 |
| dtantsur | actually it might be the same for provision state: now some states return 406 :) | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, but that's fine because those states weren't supported in old versions | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | oh depends | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | hmmm | 17:50 |
| rloo | it isn't clear to me when to use 400 vs 406. | 17:50 |
| jroll | dtantsur: node_set_provision_state 'notastate' also returns 406 | 17:50 |
| jroll | iirc | 17:50 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, names neither :) but the error code is different | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | yeah maybe it should be 400, because if you input an not valid state in an old version you should get a 400 | 17:51 |
| dtantsur | oh | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, +1 | 17:51 |
| rloo | wrt the states, before, one only expected X number of states. We've added new states that they are not aware of. | 17:51 |
| jlvillal | 9 minutes | 17:51 |
| NobodyCam | thank you jlvillal | 17:51 |
| rloo | so I think we agree on 400 in this case, but it isn't clear (to me) when to use 406? | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | rloo, right, so old versions should return 400 (BadRequest) becasue that's what old versions would do | 17:52 |
| lucasagomes | as for endpoints that didn't exist before we should return 404 | 17:52 |
| lucasagomes | I don't see much use for 406, but I need to investigate more | 17:52 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: want a action item for htat? | 17:52 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, could be | 17:52 |
| NobodyCam | #action to investigate returning 406 | 17:53 |
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| NobodyCam | #undo | 17:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x926c410> | 17:53 |
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| NobodyCam | #action lucasagomes to investigate returning 406 | 17:53 |
| NobodyCam | thank you lucasagomes | 17:53 |
| NobodyCam | ok | 17:53 |
| NobodyCam | quickly | 17:54 |
| NobodyCam | python-ironicclient sending version header by default -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165559/ | 17:54 |
| NobodyCam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165559 | 17:54 |
| NobodyCam | kinda along the same lines (kinda) | 17:54 |
| * jroll doubts this will be quick :x | 17:54 | |
| NobodyCam | adam_g: thats you and devananda ? | 17:54 |
| adam_g | ya. the problem here is we realy have no way of controlling python-ironicclient used by stable/juno nova | 17:54 |
| NobodyCam | 6 minutes | 17:54 |
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| adam_g | the shortest and easiest solution i can think of is to patch nova stable/juno to specify a 1.0 header | 17:55 |
| NobodyCam | adam_g: right now its acting like 1.1? | 17:55 |
| jroll | adam_g: how sure / when can we be sure that people pick up that change? | 17:55 |
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| rloo | adam_g: so should this patch be dependent on a nova-stable/juno patch? | 17:56 |
| adam_g | NobodyCam, its not specifying any header so yeah, it gets downgraded AIUI | 17:56 |
| adam_g | jroll, we can't | 17:56 |
| rloo | it isn't only nova that this will break though; it is all those hundreds of deployments out there ;) | 17:56 |
| jroll | adam_g: so we break anyone that updates the client but not ironic | 17:56 |
| adam_g | rloo, yeah, or at least blocked ntil we have a plan on how to handle it | 17:57 |
| adam_g | jroll, yup | 17:57 |
| jroll | fun. | 17:57 |
| lucasagomes | ouch | 17:57 |
| adam_g | jroll, which is the case if 165559 lands now | 17:57 |
| jroll | right | 17:57 |
| jroll | I guess patching nova-juno seems fine to me | 17:57 |
| adam_g | so this coupled with the config drive thing begs the question: do we support partial upgrades (ie, upgrade nova without upgrading ironic or the other way around) | 17:58 |
| rloo | i thought we already had this discussion in one of our previous meetings. where people wanted the client to default to the latest version and I wanted none or minimum. but the rationale was that anyone that upgrades the client should only upgrade after seeing what changes were in the client. so they should know that it will/could break. | 17:58 |
| jroll | adam_g: yeah, we need to support partial upgrades IMO. the question to me is nova first, ironic first, or both | 17:59 |
| NobodyCam | * two minutes * stendulker see my comment in ironic channel | 17:59 |
| rloo | jroll, adam_g: what can/do we support now. | 17:59 |
| NobodyCam | jroll: ya I think we have to do our best to support them | 17:59 |
| adam_g | jroll, with those two bugs open we can't do either right now | 17:59 |
| jroll | adam_g: right :| | 17:59 |
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| rloo | oh. so no partial upgrade at all. | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | :/ | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | ok folks can we take this back to our channel? we are out of time | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | yea | 18:00 |
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| jroll | yeah, thanks for running NobodyCam | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | let's do it | 18:00 |
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| NobodyCam | thank you all grat meeting | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | sorry for not being here b4 | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | not at all | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | thanks NobodyCam for covering deva | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | see ya all back in our channel | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 18:01:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-23-17.02.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-23-17.02.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-03-23-17.02.log.html | 18:01 |
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