Monday, 2015-04-20

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krotscheckNo storyBoard meeting today for those who are curious.15:08
krotscheckWe don't have core quorum.15:08
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NobodyCam#startmeeting Ironic17:00
NobodyCam#chair devananda17:00
NobodyCamWelcome everyone to the Ironic meeting.17:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Apr 20 17:00:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is NobodyCam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ironic)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ironic'17:00
jlvillalo/17:00
openstackCurrent chairs: NobodyCam devananda17:00
NobodyCamOf course the agenda can be found at:17:00
NobodyCam#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_next_meeting17:00
devanandao/17:00
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NobodyCam#topic Greetings, roll-call and announcements17:00
NobodyCamRoll-call: Who's here for the Ironic Meeting?17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Greetings, roll-call and announcements (Meeting topic: Ironic)"17:00
NobodyCamhowdy all17:00
jlvillalo/17:00
rloome17:00
pshigeo/17:00
vdroko/17:00
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Nishao/17:00
Shrewso/17:00
TheJuliao/17:01
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dtantsuro/17:01
NobodyCamgreat to see you all :)17:01
BadCubhiya folks17:01
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NobodyCamlooks like one one Announcement17:01
NobodyCamBig Thank you to Lucas and Chris Dent for picking up WSME17:02
NobodyCamas core members17:02
NobodyCamfor more info see the link on the agenda17:02
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jroll\o17:02
* BadCub applauds17:02
NobodyCamany other Announcements17:03
devanandawhile its awesome that we can breathe a litlte life into WSME to fix bugs17:03
JayFp/17:03
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devanandaI'd like us to also begin thinking about moving off of WSME soon, as the project isn't maintained by anyone else, and I dont think there's benefit (long term) in us taking that on17:03
devanandasomething to discuss at the summit, perhaps :)17:04
NobodyCamdevananda: I think I know where your going I also have a item under open discussion sectiom17:04
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jrollcdent being on it means ceilometer will probably continue to work on it no?17:04
devanandajust noting that here so that the announcement doesn't look like we're taking it on long-term17:04
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NobodyCamahh17:05
NobodyCam:)17:05
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NobodyCamok then we can move on to :17:06
NobodyCam#topic SubTeam: status report17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "SubTeam: status report (Meeting topic: Ironic)"17:06
NobodyCamwhite board seems like only few sections are updated17:06
NobodyCam#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard17:06
jrollI don't really expect a ton of updates this week17:07
rloono news is good news :)17:07
NobodyCam:) ya .. :)17:07
* devananda notes that stackforge doesn't have any info for driverlog + ironic + kilo -- http://stackalytics.com/report/driverlog?project_id=openstack%2Fironic17:08
pshige:)17:08
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NobodyCamdtantsur: posted bug numbers https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard17:08
rloodo we want to mention what is kilo-rc-potential material?17:08
jrollrloo: +117:08
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devanandarloo: yes, i was just looking at that.17:09
jrollhm, I don't see kilo-rc-potential tag17:09
devananda#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bugs?field.tag=kilo-rc-potential17:09
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dtantsurit's not official, so it's not in the list17:09
rloodtantsur: what's not official?17:09
* devananda adds it to official bug list17:09
dtantsurthe tag17:09
dtantsurrloo, launchpad has notion of "official" tags for a project17:10
rloodtantsur: oh. guess it'll be official very soon. thx ;)17:10
NobodyCamso currentlly only one open bug17:10
jrollwell17:10
jrollthe "fix committed" bug still has the kilo backport patch open17:10
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jrollttx has a -2 on it, I guess the RC window isn't open yet or something?17:10
NobodyCamahh17:11
jrollhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/174122/ fwiw17:11
rlooso if someone thinks/wants something to go to kilo, they tag it, and we approve (or not) the patch, and then ttx has final approval?17:11
devanandacorrect -- the rc2 window isn't open yet17:11
NobodyCam#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17412217:11
devanandaprocess is outlined on the wiki page for stable branches, though it was just changed slightly last week (see emails from dhellmann and ttx)17:11
jrollJoshNang: do we have a server patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1441445 ?17:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1441445 in Ironic "As per the state machine, ironic doesn't provide an option to move from CLEANFAIL to CLEAN" [High,Triaged]17:12
jrollor am I thinking of a rescue mode thing17:12
devanandatldr; file bug, tag with kilo-rc-potential (or kilo-backport-potential after the release), propose fix to master. fix must be merged in master. cherry-pick -x the commit back to stable/kilo and propose that.17:12
JoshNangjroll: that was rescue17:12
jrollk17:12
rloothe wiki page for stable branches: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch17:13
devanandathen ttx and I decide if and when to merge it, based on release cycle, severity of bug, risk of the change, etc17:13
NobodyCam# link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch17:13
rloothx devananda17:13
devanandanote that we also have a stable branch for the client now, too17:13
rloodevananda: oh yeah. the client. was that branch cut on a package release?17:14
devanandaiow, we need to follow the same process there, which it looks like dtantsur has done for the retry patch17:14
devanandarloo: yes17:14
devananda0.5.x will be consisered stable/kilo series, and 0.6.x (not yet tagged) is what we'll develop on going forward17:14
dtantsurwhy not starting giving client names like "Kilo" and versions like 2014.1? :)17:15
dtantsurlooks like they follow usual openstack process now17:15
devanandawell, not exactly17:15
devanandawe can still tag clients any time17:15
dtantsurright17:16
devanandathere seem to be some more changes happening around this stable branches of libraries and clients thing17:16
devanandalike not having a proposed/kilo branch any more17:16
devanandaanyway, we've got 2 bugs right now tagged for backport potential17:17
devanandaany others that folks want to bring up?17:17
NobodyCamdevananda: is there info we can review on the changes forthcomming?17:17
devanandaNobodyCam: aside from reading the mailing list, not that I know of.17:17
NobodyCamack :)17:18
devanandai'm still digesting it, which is partly why I haven't done an announce of how it affects us yet17:18
NobodyCamoh we should prob change the topic17:18
NobodyCam#topic Open Discussion17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Ironic)"17:18
NobodyCamas that is the only place we have items on the agenda17:19
NobodyCamdevananda: :) ahh Thank you17:19
NobodyCamrloo: your up 1st with utf-8 encoding17:20
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rlooso this bug/patch has been around for awhile. I'm into 'spring-cleaning' mode. wanted to 'get rid of it'.17:20
rloohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/132519317:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1325193 in python-ironicclient "Some Python files do not specify the file encoding" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Martin Geisler (mgeisler)17:20
rloopatch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97027/17:20
rloothe patch basically adds a utf-8 coding line to every file.17:21
rlooI discussed it briefly with lucas, and he would like that line added, because it will help eg Asian folks.17:21
rlooAnyone against adding it?17:22
jlvillalrloo: Why doesn't it use:  # coding=utf-8 ?17:22
dtantsurwhy should it? :)17:23
jlvillalrloo: But no opposition here17:23
jrollI have no issues17:23
jlvillaldtantsur: Well it is using the emacs version ;)17:23
dtantsurIIRC this form was chosen as both Emacs and Vim understand it17:23
rloojlvillal: that's what it is proposing, to add coding: utf-8.?17:23
pshigeno opposition17:23
rloojlvillal: oh, that's what you meant. guess dtantsur answered :)17:24
jlvillaldtantsur: If it works for both, it works for me :)17:24
rloook, so can we do some #agree thingy saying it is OK, and I'll get in touch with Martin to see if he wants to finish it.17:24
devanandarloo: my only opposition to this is that it's adding cruft that humans shouldn't have to maintain.. we're going to add files and forget to add this header to them17:25
devanandarloo: it should be an editor setting, not a hint in every single file17:25
dtantsurthe opposite is valid too: people will add files with this line :)17:25
rloodevananda: just like the other cruft we have. I'm fine not putting it in either. We already have some files with it.17:25
NobodyCamcan we add a hacking check for it?17:25
devanandalook at other projects -- I do not see this in every single file in nova, swift, keystone, ..17:25
NobodyCamjust enforce its there?17:25
rlooI think there are lots of other things we should be spending time on deciding. I just wanted to 'do something' and be done with it. Note that the client files have it. (or had it; maybe some new ones don't now!)17:26
devanandaI understand the reason: some developers don't have their project (or their editor) configured in the same way that I do17:27
dtantsurI agree that it should be done via hacking, whichever way we prefer17:27
devanandabut those developers are asking the project to assume responsibility to tell their editor what to do17:27
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devanandaand i don't think it's the project's responsibility to carry the hint in every single file17:27
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JayFdevananda: +1 I agree17:27
devanandaand then add a hacking rule to reject code that doesnt include a # -*- coding: utf8 -*- line17:27
pshigedevananda: +117:27
jlvillalI think it is only needed if there is non-ASCII code in the file.  From my reading.  Which should then fail the gate, which would be a hint to add it.17:27
jrollisn't this also a signal to python?17:27
jlvillaljroll: Yes17:28
jrollto parse the file as utf-8, not ascii17:28
jrollright, ok17:28
jlvillalhttps://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/17:28
devanandaright. so if we HAVE non-ascii chars in a file, we should clearly add this hint for python17:28
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devanandabut i still object to seeing it in every single file17:29
rlooMartin's choice " c)  Remove the lines where they aren't strictly needed (Python requires the line if the file has non-ASCII characters)."17:29
devanandaso, let's vote17:29
NobodyCamso I take this as add to a file if its needed17:29
rloobut I don't think we want to enforce that *only* the files that need it, should have it.17:29
jlvillalNobodyCam: I think if a file needs it, it should already be there.17:29
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dtantsurtbh I'm not sure we should have files with non-ASCII17:30
devanandaugh. /me llooks up how to run a vote17:30
natoriouspython 3 defaults to utf-8 too17:31
* jroll votes for apathy17:31
devananda#startvote should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint? Yes, No, Only, Abstain17:31
openstackBegin voting on: should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Only, Abstain.17:31
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.17:31
devananda"only"  = only when needed by python17:31
devanandawell. that's redundant.17:31
devananda#undo17:31
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x98d9810>17:31
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devananda#startvote should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint? Yes, No, Abstain17:31
openstackAlready voting on 'should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint'17:31
devanandabah17:32
* rloo thinks we don't vote enough ;)17:32
devananda#endvote17:32
openstackVoted on "should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint?" Results are17:32
devananda#startvote should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint? Yes, No, Abstain17:32
openstackBegin voting on: should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.17:32
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.17:32
dtantsurlooks like #undo worked for the last link17:32
devanandadtantsur: yea :(17:32
devananda#vote no17:32
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TheJulia#vote no17:32
dtantsur#vote No17:32
BadCub#vote no17:32
rloo#vote yes (on lucas' behalf)17:32
openstackrloo: yes (on lucas' behalf) is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No, Abstain.17:32
dtantsurlol17:33
rloo#vote yes17:33
NobodyCam#vote no17:33
jlvillal#vote no17:33
Shrews#vote no17:33
pshige#vote no17:33
natorious#vote no17:33
JayF#vote no17:33
JoshNang#vote no17:33
devanandawill give it another 30 seconds17:34
jroll#vote abstain17:34
vdrok#vote no17:34
NobodyCamI do under stand lucas' point, but agree with devananda it should n't required for every file17:34
Shrewsthe change needs a better story, IMO17:34
devananda#endvote17:34
openstackVoted on "should ironic require all files to have an encoding hint?" Results are17:34
openstackYes (1): rloo17:34
openstackAbstain (1): jroll17:34
openstackNo (12): TheJulia, NobodyCam, pshige, jlvillal, BadCub, devananda, JayF, JoshNang, dtantsur, Shrews, natorious, vdrok17:34
rloosweet. thx everyone!17:35
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NobodyCamthe no's have it17:35
devanandarloo: cheers. there you go :)17:35
NobodyCamok to move on.17:35
devanandaI'd like to take a little collective time to look at the ideas we've got for the summit17:35
NobodyCam:)17:36
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pshigedevananda: +117:36
devanandawe have about 3 weeks to organize them, which'll go pretty fast17:36
jrollbefore we move on, dare I ask if we should remove the encoding hints from ironicclient now?17:36
NobodyCam#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-ironic-design-summit-ideas17:36
devanandajroll: heh. I'd +2 that patch, fwiw17:36
jroll:)17:37
devanandabut also don't care /that/ much17:37
NobodyCam++17:37
rloojroll: being a consistency freak, I'll remove them :)17:38
jrollheh, thanks rloo :)17:38
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devanandawe've got 3 types of sessions, so I think i'll start (after the meeting) reorganizing this 'pad based on that17:38
NobodyCamlots of good topics on the etherpad17:39
rloodevananda: do/should we have a deadline for taking suggestions?17:39
devananda2 big room slots, which is more a place to gather feedback from the community17:39
devanandaseveral fishbowl / small room things to sort stuff out ourselves17:39
devanandaand then a full day friday to do what ever we need to17:39
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devanandaalso, if anyone is proposing sessions with other service teams,w e should cross-link from this pad17:40
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NobodyCamdevananda: do have sessions inmind for the larger "big room " slots17:41
devanandarloo: it'd help me out if all the suggestions are in by May 7 at the latest17:41
NobodyCamI'd love to bring up third party testing requirments in fromt of a large group but I also it it easly going sideways17:42
rloodevananda: so after you reorg the etherpad, maybe add a section/area for new suggestions?17:42
NobodyCams/it it/see it/17:42
devanandaNobodyCam: yah. I think 3rd party CI is a thing we need to start being more explicit about, but I dont think a whole session on that is going to produce anything17:42
devanandarloo: ++17:43
NobodyCamdevananda: ya17:43
devanandathings that might need a big room, on my mind ...17:43
devananda- networking stuff17:44
rloois there an operator's track where we might get feedback for ironic. last summit, I don't recall much feedback at all.17:44
devananda- general ops feedback17:44
NobodyCamwould love smaller group session on : Driver composition matrix17:44
devanandarloo: there is an ops track. we should propose sessions there17:44
devanandaNobodyCam: +1 for small group session for the driver matrix17:44
devananda#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Planning17:46
devanandaall the projects' etherpads for proposing things are there ^17:46
NobodyCamany reason to cover any of the micro version stuff in the big rooms? (i thinking no but want to hear others thoughts)17:46
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rlooNobodyCam: don't think so, but we might want to discuss 'finishing' it, maybe on Friday?17:47
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rlooNobodyCam: and/or talk to Nova folks to see how it is working for them :)17:47
devanandaI think we need to have two conversations with nova this cycle17:47
rlooNobodyCam: unless one of the big room sessions is to discuss what is new in kilo.17:48
devanandaone around how they will continue handling federated / clustered hypervisors17:48
devanandaanother for the networking issues around assuming that we have only one network per port17:48
devanandadoes anyone want to take the lead on either of those?17:48
NobodyCamdevananda: maybe also some chatting on the topic of testing?17:49
jrollI definitely do not want the lead on the former :P17:49
jrollI could take the latter if necessary, though I'm not sure the best way to fix it17:49
* rloo guesses that non-ironic folks will be asking about federated/clustered hypervisors17:49
devanandaNobodyCam: keeping everyone on the same page about testing is good. maybe a slot in our meetup on friday?17:50
NobodyCamoh ++17:50
devanandarloo: nova folks are, by and large, quite familiar with the problem space by now17:50
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devanandarloo: they seem to differ in how they want to address it, though17:50
devanandajroll: if you can, that'd be great17:50
rloodevananda: yeah, so they need to go into a small room and duke it out :)17:50
jrollso really this is about getting them all in a room and making them figure it out :P17:50
devananda#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-neutron-summit-topics17:51
jrolldevananda: I guess what does 'take the lead' entail here? I'm not sure I want to run that session, but I can try to make sure it happens17:51
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devananda#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-summit-ideas17:51
NobodyCam* fyi Nine minutes *17:51
devanandajroll: where 'them' includes some of us17:51
jrollright17:51
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rloois it on purpose that people put suggestions in etherpad w/o their names?17:53
devanandarloo: harder to read with names every 20 chars?17:53
devanandarloo: but seriously, if someone wants to run a session, they should put their name up, otherwise I'm going to run them all :P17:54
rloodevananda: sometimes I wonder/want more details, can't ping someone if you don't know who they are.17:54
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* rloo is fine with devananda running all the sessions :)17:54
JayFdevananda: Here's the question: Do you want the person running the session to have an opinion on it?17:55
devanandahonestly, rather than proposals by a single person // pushing a single new feature, we should really be discussing things that most (if not all) of us are already familiar with17:55
NobodyCamrloo: if users set their name the solor will tell you who it was17:55
JayFdevananda: I'd think an 'impartial moderator' could be more interesting in some of these formats17:55
devanandafeature proposals should be going through the spec process17:55
devanandaJayF: I'm hardly impartial, but I am happy to moderate :)17:56
NobodyCams/solor/color/17:56
rloodevananda: but eg the state machine stuff got somewhat hashed out at the last summit.17:56
devanandarloo: right. that's a great example of the sort of high bandwodth collaboration I'd like to see more of htis time17:56
rloodevananda: although I guess it was something that more than one person was interested in.17:56
JayFdevananda: well I'm saying generally I'm willing to take that role in sessions as needed;17:57
devanandaJayF: awesome, thanks.17:57
* rloo wonders when JayF has ever been impartial, but am happy to have JayF do it too :-)17:57
NobodyCamlol17:57
JayFrloo: I usually only talk when I have an opinion on things :)17:58
NobodyCam* Two Minutes Left *17:58
JayFrloo: something like functional testing ... my only opinion is that we do it :D17:58
rlooJayF: opinions are good ;)17:58
rlooby the way, I did want to mention/confirm. we are NOT supporting nova baremetal migration outside of juno, right?17:59
devanandarloo: correct17:59
devanandathat code was dropped from nova already anyway17:59
rloodevananda: right, but we forgot to drop the migration code from ironic/kilo.17:59
devanandaand we're not supporting a migration that skips a release at this time17:59
devanandarloo: ugh17:59
rloodevananda: i have a patch for L*, you want that backported to kilo?18:00
NobodyCam* beep * thats time18:00
devanandarloo: wait that's right. it should be in kilo, not in liberty18:00
devanandaanyway, thanks all18:00
devanandai'll clean up this pad before next week18:00
NobodyCamthank you all18:00
dtantsurthanks18:00
devanandahopefully some of you want to help add more things :)18:00
devanandacheers!18:00
pshigethanks18:00
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NobodyCam#endmeeting18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Apr 20 18:00:32 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-04-20-17.00.html18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-04-20-17.00.txt18:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-04-20-17.00.log.html18:00
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