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| SergeyLukjanov | hey sahara folks! | 13:59 |
|---|---|---|
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| elmiko__ | hi | 13:59 |
| esikachev | hi! | 14:00 |
| venza | hello | 14:00 |
| vgridnev | o/ | 14:00 |
| AndreyPavlov | hi | 14:00 |
| tosky | hi | 14:00 |
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| elmiko__ | of course the vpn to my irc shell dies right before the meeting :/ | 14:00 |
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| sreshetnyak | o/ | 14:00 |
| kchen | o/ | 14:00 |
| NikitaKonovalov | hi | 14:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #startmeeting sahara | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 14:01:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SergeyLukjanov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SaharaAgenda | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'sahara' | 14:01 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #topic sahara@horizon status (crobertsrh, NikitaKonovalov) | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sahara@horizon status (crobertsrh, NikitaKonovalov) (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 14:01 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-reviews-in-horizon | 14:02 |
| NikitaKonovalov | There is finally a change created to move Sahara panels to contib | 14:02 |
| NikitaKonovalov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197363/ | 14:02 |
| elmiko__ | \o/ | 14:02 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | so once that one is merge, we'll need to rebases everythnig | 14:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | actually it's better to start rebasing now | 14:03 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | NikitaKonovalov, ++ for starting rebasing now | 14:04 |
| NikitaKonovalov | because the current changes wount be merged anyway | 14:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | NikitaKonovalov, what's the progress of moving to contrib? | 14:04 |
| vgridnev | I have several patches added, one related for node process tab | 14:04 |
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| vgridnev | for horizon I meant | 14:04 |
| NikitaKonovalov | SergeyLukjanov: the patch is on review, and guess what? no reviews so far | 14:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | :( | 14:05 |
| vgridnev | and now it in merge conflict | 14:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I hope we'll get it merged fast | 14:05 |
| SergeyLukjanov | david-lyle, could we help somehow with a patch that is moving sahara to contrib? | 14:06 |
| NikitaKonovalov | vgridnev: it's now a good momnet to rebase your changes on top of the contrib change | 14:06 |
| vgridnev | NikitaKonovalov, ok | 14:06 |
| NikitaKonovalov | anyway I'll chack that that all our changes are rebased | 14:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | check* | 14:07 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | NikitaKonovalov, ack | 14:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | NikitaKonovalov, and please ensure that our etherpad contains all links to the CRs | 14:08 |
| NikitaKonovalov | no more new from me | 14:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, thx | 14:08 |
| NikitaKonovalov | SergeyLukjanov: sure | 14:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic spark version status (elmiko) | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spark version status (elmiko) (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 14:09 | |
| elmiko | hey | 14:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | elmiko, hey ;) | 14:09 |
| elmiko | given the recent changes proposed from venza, i wan't to talk about deprecetating 0.9.1 | 14:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | should we support older versions of spark? | 14:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195054 introduces 1.3 version of spark, but sahara plugin only lists 0.9.1 and 1.0.0 (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196686 adds 1.3.1 to the sahara plugin -- venza), and we have no way to regenerate older versions | 14:09 |
| elmiko | and what our plans are for the future | 14:09 |
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| elmiko | i don't see much point in supporting more than 1 older version of spark | 14:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | elmiko, agreed | 14:10 |
| NikitaKonovalov | elmiko: agree | 14:10 |
| venza | actually versions 0.9.1 and 1.0.0 are no longer available from spark's website | 14:10 |
| elmiko | right, that too | 14:10 |
| elmiko | imo, we really need to get 1.4 support =) | 14:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we could keep them as deprecated (only for ops on the already provisioned clusters) | 14:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and keep only latest version active | 14:11 |
| elmiko | SergeyLukjanov: +1 | 14:11 |
| venza | we did not test 1.4 yet, but 1.3.1 works well, that's why my patch is for 1.3.1 | 14:11 |
| venza | SergeyLukjanov: +1 | 14:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I hope to have fully working Spark support in HDP and CDH someday (with EDP and etc.) and then we'll be probably able to use them instead of separated plugin, what do you guys thinking about it? | 14:12 |
| elmiko | i'm talking more optimistically venza =) | 14:12 |
| tosky | venza: do you think to push 1.4 for Liberty, and if yes, will it be 1.4 only or 1.4+1.3? | 14:12 |
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| elmiko | i think we should still have a "vanilla" spark plugin at some point | 14:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | another rand idea - to merge vanilla hadoop and spark plugins | 14:12 |
| venza | yes, it is like the vanilla hadoop plugin | 14:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | oh, spark based on CDH HDFS | 14:13 |
| elmiko | i've been experimenting with a bare fedora spark 1.4 image, and i could see value in having a separate, simple, spark plugin | 14:13 |
| venza | lately we are running compute only clusters without local hdfs | 14:13 |
| elmiko | imo, we should someday have "vanilla hadoop" and "vanilla spark", but maybe not as the same plugin | 14:13 |
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| venza | tosky: I plan to work on 1.4 right after 1.3 gets merged | 14:14 |
| venza | tosky: probably is is again a simple patch | 14:14 |
| venza | *it | 14:15 |
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| elmiko | yea | 14:15 |
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| elmiko | sounds like we are in agreement about deprecationg then | 14:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yup | 14:16 |
| venza | yes | 14:16 |
| elmiko | we'll probably have to talk in tokyo about the future of the spark plugin though? | 14:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #agreed keep only latest spark version active and deprecate older versions | 14:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | that's the summary I think ^^ | 14:17 |
| elmiko | +1 | 14:17 |
| venza | +1 | 14:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | great | 14:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic News / updates | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 14:18 | |
| elmiko | keystone session spec is finally up, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197743/ | 14:19 |
| elmiko | i have some poc code working locally with this | 14:19 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've been working on NameNode HA support for HDP. And it is not working due to a strange Ambari behavior when starting NameNodes | 14:19 |
| vgridnev | Make some important back ports to stable/kilo branch in sahara, several bugs researching and also horizon, horizon and etc | 14:19 |
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| AndreyPavlov | i've been working on shared across tenants and protected from updates/deletions resources | 14:19 |
| tosky | NikitaKonovalov: uh, for 2.2? We found an issue in 2.0.6, Oozie is not properly configured | 14:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | An Ambari bug is here https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AMBARI-12235 If anyone is interested | 14:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | tosky: 2.2 | 14:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | We successfully moved to the in-tree Devstack plugin, so, it's now very easy to improve it's integration | 14:20 |
| weiting | We are working on Sahara/Manila integration and I just cook one slide deck on google docs for your reference. | 14:20 |
| weiting | https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qv2L1AVJ2BuBfBX33bE2hBu4KROV4l5h5xVHG9S9Sp8/edit?usp=sharing | 14:20 |
| tosky | NikitaKonovalov: for reference, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sahara/+bug/1470841 | 14:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1470841 in Sahara "NameNode HA for HDP2 does not set up Oozie correctly" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Ethan Gafford (egafford) | 14:20 |
| esikachev | working on cluster verification checks #links https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196713/ | 14:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | tosky: I'll keep that in mind, thanks | 14:20 |
| weiting | Please take a look and let me know your comment. | 14:20 |
| kchen | I am working on NameNode HA support for CDH. hope can finish the codes soon. | 14:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | weiting, thx! | 14:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | kchen, cool! | 14:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | kchen, are you going to impl HA for other services? | 14:21 |
| tosky | NikitaKonovalov: egafford is working on it (but I don't see him online), so you can coordinate with him | 14:21 |
| kchen | @Sergey, yes for Yarn. | 14:21 |
| kchen | Others are not in current plan | 14:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | kchen: do you have a change on review for NameNode HA? | 14:21 |
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| kchen | @Nikita no yet. | 14:22 |
| kchen | hope I can submit one patch soon. | 14:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | kchen: ok, I was just curious to see how CDH does HA | 14:23 |
| huichun | egafford: I have updated recurrence edp job spec | 14:23 |
| kchen | I have already submitted a spec and a patch to add a CM API for HDFS HA on CDH | 14:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | AndreyPavlov, how is it going with a grenade code? | 14:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | AndreyPavlov, have you tested it? | 14:24 |
| egafford | huichun: Cool; I'll take another look. More eyes on the recurrence spec would be handy, btw; it's important. | 14:24 |
| NikitaKonovalov | kchen: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197551/ here is the change I have for HDP right now | 14:24 |
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| AndreyPavlov | i've tested it as part of grenade | 14:24 |
| kchen | NikitaKonovalov: cool, I will check that. | 14:24 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Open discussion | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 14:25 | |
| AndreyPavlov | it worked fine, but haven't checked it after plugins implementation | 14:25 |
| venza | just a question about version deprecation | 14:25 |
| kchen | NikitaKonovalov: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196929/ this spec shows how to do HDFS HA for CDH | 14:25 |
| venza | it means the version is still listed, but no tests are run? | 14:26 |
| venza | how is a user aware the version X is deprecated? | 14:26 |
| kchen | All, one thing I am not clear, whether we have a plan to align all job/job_execution into job_template/job everywhere. codes, docs. | 14:26 |
| kchen | For recently I was reading the documents, and found the names very confusing. | 14:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | kchen, it could be fully done only with a v2 API | 14:27 |
| vgridnev | venza, I suppose we can add some validation rules about deprecation of some plugins version | 14:27 |
| NikitaKonovalov | kchen: thanks I'll have a look | 14:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | kchen, because we need to change an API endpoits and object names for it | 14:27 |
| elmiko | kchen: yea, i have ides about that for v2 | 14:27 |
| kchen | SergeyLukjanov: ok. but Horizon already changed the names on UI, right? | 14:27 |
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| tosky | venza: when vanilla 2.4 was deprecated, the version was listed but you couldn't create any new clusters | 14:27 |
| venza | tosky: ok | 14:27 |
| tosky | changing topic, I will propose a small spec to allow the scenario test runner to consume mako templates and convert the yaml files we have in etc/scenario to this format, so that sahara-ci won't need to do the replacement | 14:28 |
| tosky | I will need some feedback from degorenko, I guess | 14:28 |
| elmiko | kchen, SergeyLukjanov, i should have a first draft of the v2 api spec up within the next 2 weeks. it has a roadmap for some of these changes (including renaming job templates/jobs) | 14:29 |
| elmiko | i have a proposed strategy for a number of changes we should implement over the remaining L and then M cycles | 14:29 |
| kchen | tosky: so if I want to do scenario tests in my local machine, we do not need to do the replacement by hand, right? | 14:29 |
| tosky | kchen: exactly! | 14:29 |
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| tosky | kchen: that's the good side effect | 14:29 |
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| kchen | tosky: sounds great :) | 14:30 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | tosky, could you probably write a spec for it? | 14:31 |
| elmiko | hehe, that's exactly what we talked about last night! | 14:31 |
| tosky | SergeyLukjanov: that's what I'm doing right now :) | 14:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | great | 14:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yeah, I remember we were talking about it last night ;) | 14:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | or day | 14:32 |
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| elmiko | i | 14:33 |
| elmiko | i | 14:33 |
| elmiko | lol | 14:33 |
| kchen | ? | 14:33 |
| kchen | so silent :) | 14:34 |
| elmiko | i'll plead once again, i could use reviews on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197743/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179393/ =) | 14:34 |
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| elmiko | sorry, mistyped a few | 14:34 |
| egafford | While we're on begging for reviews, it'd be great to finish off review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187809/ : there's more work to do on this change during the cycle in client/UI/integration tests, but it's currently pending this review. | 14:35 |
| elmiko | that should be our topic after open discussion, "review begging" ;) | 14:36 |
| egafford | Heh. | 14:36 |
| * elmiko shakes his cup | 14:37 | |
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| SergeyLukjanov | egafford, I'll take a look on it today again and it looks like I'll approve it :) | 14:40 |
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| egafford | Thanks SergeyLukjanov! I just want to make sure there's enough time to get all the bits in place in L. | 14:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | egafford, that's important | 14:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | folks, propose corresponding changes to client asap to make us able to release client with at least few features per time ;) | 14:42 |
| venza | SergeyLukjanov: about storing Spark images. There is 1.0.0 on mirantis web space linked in the documentation | 14:42 |
| elmiko | good question venza! | 14:43 |
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| venza | I have a 1.3.1 on google drive, but that is not good for documentation | 14:43 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | venza, we could put it to the storage | 14:45 |
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| venza | SergeyLukjanov: you mean update the image on mirantis server? | 14:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'm still thinking about how to safely publish images to tarballs.o.o | 14:45 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | venza, yeah | 14:46 |
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| venza | I will remove the link from the documentation for 1.0.0 since we are deprecating it, then we will see | 14:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | the main issue is that if we'll publish images after each change merged - nothing will be tested and it's not safe | 14:46 |
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| elmiko | +1 | 14:47 |
| elmiko | what's our option though, i think it's nice if we provide some images but we will always have the problem of validation. | 14:48 |
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| elmiko | it doesn't seem friendly to ask all users to create images, but it almost seems like the best path. | 14:49 |
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| egafford | elmiko: That doesn't really fix the validation issue, though, so much as defer the problem away from the dev team toward support teams. | 14:49 |
| tellesnobrega | i think that we want users to create their own images, we should make it easier, more straightforward | 14:50 |
| elmiko | right | 14:50 |
| elmiko | egafford: but otoh, who's doing all this validation work on the images, and how to keep up with newer versions in light of that? | 14:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | elmiko, yeah | 14:50 |
| egafford | tellesnobrega: Yeah, I have this dream of having an image generation service that's shared by Trove, Sahara, Octavia, etc. | 14:51 |
| egafford | elmiko: I don't have a fabulous solution to that problem either, really, other than gating at major releases. | 14:51 |
| tellesnobrega | egafford, + 1 | 14:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | right now, before publishing, we're asking esikachev to generate all images, test them and upload :) | 14:51 |
| elmiko | and we appreciate that esikachev is doing that =) | 14:52 |
| egafford | elmiko, SergeyLukjanov: Backward (and even forward) compatibility will always be rough here without a vast matrix. | 14:52 |
| elmiko | egafford: agreed, my concern is that in the time it takes us to produce validated images, for spark let's say, we will want to be pushing a newer version. and will anyone even want the older versions? | 14:53 |
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| elmiko | assuming our images are for users who are trying out sahara, why isn't it fair to just announce "these are experimental images, for production usage you should use something else" | 14:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | elmiko, good idea | 14:54 |
| elmiko | i mean, if someone is going into production with sahara they should have a partner, or know how to create/validate images, or something... | 14:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we could probably publish all latest images | 14:54 |
| elmiko | just make sure to announce "experimental, use at your own risk" ;) | 14:55 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and document that it's just a experimental images | 14:55 |
| egafford | elmiko: Well, this is a classic reliability vs. shiny tradeoff. Some folks will want the new shiny even at risk of pain, some will want things to just work immediately and will flee from Sahara if they don't. | 14:55 |
| venza | +1 for publishing with the disclaimer | 14:55 |
| SergeyLukjanov | more then that, we could some day add some CI for this images | 14:55 |
| SergeyLukjanov | probably periodic jobs | 14:55 |
| tellesnobrega | elmiko, i agree with that | 14:55 |
| elmiko | egafford: agreed, but how much assurance can we provide when we are talking about the depth of, essentially, free validation work? | 14:56 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | good question :) | 14:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | btw 3 mins left | 14:57 |
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| egafford | elmiko: I think it's not at all unreasonable to assert that at major and point releases, we have a version of sahara-image-elements (which depends on a version of DIB) which we know to be able to create a functional image. | 14:58 |
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| elmiko | it makes sense to me if we have the juno release with supported validated images, and the kilo release with ..., but for master work it should be experimental images. imo | 14:59 |
| tellesnobrega | here at the university, we are starting to announce sahara so other researchers can use it, and we will probably need different images, having a way to generate them quickly would be nice, i mean, we dont want to have to have a setup just to build images, and we dont want to have to clone three projects to generates images everytime | 14:59 |
| tellesnobrega | just on the direction of DIY images | 14:59 |
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| elmiko | tellesnobrega: but wouldnt it make more sense for your organization to provide a set of images that are blessed for all to ue? | 14:59 |
| elmiko | *use | 14:59 |
| tellesnobrega | yes, of course | 15:00 |
| etoews | #startmeeting api wg | 15:00 |
| openstack | etoews: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 15:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| tellesnobrega | guess our time is up | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| egafford | elmiko, SergeyLukjanov: Frankly, I think that if we can't say that we have a stable release of sahara-image-elements for each major release, we really need to disown the image gen process entirely, and let something else grow to fill this gap. | 15:00 |
| elmiko | oops | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 15:00:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-07-02-14.01.html | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-07-02-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| egafford | Heh. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-07-02-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thanks sahara folks | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | etoews: This is where we do the L3 meeting. | 15:00 |
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| regXboi | carl_baldwin: hi | 15:00 |
| kchen | bye all | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: hi | 15:00 |
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| yamamoto | hi | 15:00 |
| etoews | oops. sorry! off by 1 hour. | 15:00 |
| elmiko | etoews: it's in 1 hour ;) | 15:00 |
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| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: hi | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | hi | 15:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | etoews: no worries, thanks. | 15:00 |
| pc_m | o/ | 15:01 |
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| neiljerram | hi | 15:01 |
| john-davidge | hi | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | yamamoto: pavel_bondar mlavalle pc_m neiljerram john-davidge: hi | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | Let’s get started. | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_l3 | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 15:01:55 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_l3' | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic #topic Announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#topic Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:02 | |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-L3-Subteam | 15:02 |
| Vikram_ | hi | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | I don’t have anything to announce. Does anyone have anything? | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | Vikram_: hi | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Bugs | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:03 | |
| carl_baldwin | First is bug 1404743, it has been around for a while. | 15:04 |
| openstack | bug 1404743 in neutron "sporadic test failures due to VMs not getting a DHCP lease" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1404743 | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | It sounds like one of those bugs where it could have any number of causes. | 15:05 |
| neiljerram | Is any more detail known about it, e.g. is it to do with a previous dhcp_release failing? | 15:05 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin: ah sorry, crossed lines :-) | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: No problems. | 15:06 |
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| carl_baldwin | I think what we should do here is reassess the severity of the bug by looking through recent logstash. | 15:06 |
| neiljerram | I guess there are lots of situations like this, so a meta-question would be what instrumentation could be added to the DHCP agent, to help distinguish between possible causes. | 15:07 |
| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will reassess bug 1404743 | 15:07 |
| openstack | bug 1404743 in neutron "sporadic test failures due to VMs not getting a DHCP lease" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1404743 | 15:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | The other bug is bug 1469322 | 15:08 |
| openstack | bug 1469322 in neutron "Associating a floatingip with a dual stack port requires the fixed-address to be specified" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1469322 | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | This one was filed as an rfe and discussed in the drivers meeting. But, it looks like a regular bug to me. | 15:08 |
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| regXboi | carl_baldwin: I agree | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | If anyone is interested in taking this on, let me know. | 15:09 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Routing Network Segments | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Routing Network Segments (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:11 | |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: can we go back a second - I have a question | 15:11 |
| carl_baldwin | #undo | 15:11 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x8e73a50> | 15:11 |
| regXboi | do we want to talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1323766 and how it relates to 1469322? (i.e. do we want the same resource working on both) | 15:11 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1323766 in neutron "Incorrect Floating IP behavior in dual stack or ipv6 only network" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Bradley Jones (bradjones) | 15:11 |
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| carl_baldwin | regXboi: It is worth considering. I had forgotten about 1469322 to be honest. | 15:13 |
| regXboi | I'm curious what progress is being made on 1323766 since they seem closely related | 15:13 |
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| regXboi | anyway - now that that is in the log, we can move on | 15:14 |
| john-davidge | regXboi: pinging brad now to see if he’s available to comment | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: No progress has been made on 1323766 from what I can tell. | 15:14 |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: that's how I read the bug, but wanted to confirm | 15:15 |
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| carl_baldwin | Looks like the patch for 1469322 just stopped getting attention. | 15:16 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will follow up and reconcile 1469322 and 1323766 | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Routing Network Segments | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Routing Network Segments (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:17 | |
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| carl_baldwin | I think we made a lot of progress at the mid-cycle on this. I have written it up as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196812/ | 15:18 |
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| regXboi | carl_baldwin: I've got one outstanding question about AS, but it's not enough to not +1 it | 15:18 |
| * regXboi shudders at the double negative | 15:18 | |
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| carl_baldwin | regXboi: I see it. I will address the comment. | 15:19 |
| neiljerram | FWIW, I'm still interested in exploring my crazy pluggable IPAM idea, just in case it might fly... | 15:20 |
| neiljerram | But that's no reason, I think, to hold up this spec as it is at the moment. | 15:21 |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: thx - and as I said, it's a nit, so I've had +1 on it for a couple of PS now | 15:21 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: johnbelamaric will be a very good person to help with that. | 15:21 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin: Cool, I'll try to hook up with him | 15:21 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: Yes, and thank you for that. Also, thank you for clarifying. | 15:21 |
| pcarver | I had one question that I added to the review but it may just be my misunderstanding of intent. | 15:22 |
| pavel_bondar | neiljerram: john is on vac now, I guess he will be available next week | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | pcarver: I did not see it until just now when I refreshed the page. | 15:22 |
| neiljerram | pavel_bondar: Thanks. Would you like to discuss my idea instead, then? (After this meeting.) | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: pavel_bondar could also be a good person to help. | 15:23 |
| pavel_bondar | neiljerram: yes, let's try | 15:23 |
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| pcarver | There was some discussion at the summit regarding ODL and non-L2 networks. Is this spec on that same topic? | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | pcarver: I will address your comment after the meeting when I can. | 15:24 |
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| neiljerram | pavel_bondar: Thanks, I'll ping you in about 1 hour from now, if that will be convenient for you. | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | pcarver: I think this is a step in that direction. I had a discussion with Ed about this one on one. There will probably be more to it. | 15:24 |
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| pcarver | Ok. Just wanted to confirm. I talked with Ed one on one as well and learned a lot about what he was trying to say that I didn't get from the meeting. | 15:25 |
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| carl_baldwin | pcarver: Let’s talk about it later in the neutron room, I’m interested to know what you learned. | 15:26 |
| pcarver | 10-4 | 15:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | Let’s move on. We’ve got a lot to cover. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic bgp-dynamic-routing | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bgp-dynamic-routing (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:26 | |
| tidwellr | hi | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: Vikram_: Anything to report here? I know tidwellr has been working on the guts of this. | 15:27 |
| regXboi | are there links to look at? | 15:27 |
| pavel_bondar | neiljerram: let's better discuss it on monday in wide company(with john), since in an hour it will be 7:30 pm in my location, and long weekend starts today | 15:27 |
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| Vikram_ | currently ryan is looking into it | 15:27 |
| Vikram_ | i will start from next week | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-L3-Subteam#bgp-dynamic-routing | 15:27 |
| regXboi | doh | 15:28 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ This may need some cleanup. tidwellr could you look over the links there quickly today? | 15:28 |
| tidwellr | yes, I can do that | 15:28 |
| tidwellr | I've got a devref review up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196452 | 15:28 |
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| tidwellr | it's WIP, but I intend to start fleshing it out | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: ack | 15:29 |
| tidwellr | it might be helpful for people to go to the devref first if they're interested | 15:29 |
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| tidwellr | I have a bunch of code queued in my sandbox that I haven't put out for review | 15:30 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: Thanks! It looks like a reasonably condensed document. | 15:30 |
| neiljerram | pavel_bondar: OK, thanks. | 15:30 |
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| tidwellr | hoping to push reviews early next week | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: Great, sounds like good progress. I also happen to know you’re well on your way to creating the server-side queries to drive the announcements. | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | Anything else to discuss here? | 15:32 |
| tidwellr | nope, we just need to get moving on the dr_agent and RPC interface next week | 15:32 |
| Vikram_ | will do that positively :) | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: Vikram_: thanks | 15:33 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic neutron-ipam | 15:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron-ipam (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:33 | |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: I think we’re getting close. | 15:33 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: Thanks for your patience with us reviewers. | 15:33 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: we are moving forward, and that is good | 15:34 |
| pavel_bondar | big refactoring is now decomposed | 15:35 |
| pavel_bondar | into small review like #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197950/ | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: What is the next review in line? | 15:35 |
| pavel_bondar | one I mentioned | 15:36 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: ack | 15:36 |
| pavel_bondar | after it goes #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153236/ | 15:36 |
| pavel_bondar | I hope they are pretty small now and easy for review | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: actually, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197090 | 15:37 |
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| carl_baldwin | …. has to merge. I’ll take care of it. | 15:37 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: it is in gate now | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: right, I thought it was hung up on something but just noticed it was approved this morning. | 15:38 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: Anything else? | 15:38 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: but I see some failure there, so may require recheck | 15:38 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: I’ll watch it. | 15:38 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: no, that is it | 15:38 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin, thanks | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: thanks | 15:39 |
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| carl_baldwin | I skipped an agenda item because I was reading the contents section of the L3 team page. | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Proposing Neutron instrumentation | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposing Neutron instrumentation (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:40 | |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: This is your item. Sorry to have skipped it before. | 15:40 |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: no worries - I figured it would be at the end | 15:40 |
| regXboi | the etherpad is live and I think the email explains it | 15:40 |
| regXboi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-instrumentation etherpad | 15:40 |
| regXboi | Sam-I-Am has already dropped a few notes in - I have to ping gsagie as wll | 15:41 |
| regXboi | *well | 15:41 |
| regXboi | others are welcome to chime in - I envision the output being an umbrella BP that won't totally land in liberty | 15:42 |
| regXboi | but hopefully we can get some small pieces of it in | 15:42 |
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| regXboi | carl_baldwin: that's all unless folks have questions and those can go on the etherpad or ML | 15:42 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: Good start. | 15:42 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: This sounds bigger than L3 a bit. | 15:43 |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: it will likely grow beyond L3 as we go, but we'll start it here | 15:43 |
| regXboi | carl_baldwin: I've already sorta pinged mestery on the side about the potential for that growth | 15:43 |
| carl_baldwin | regXboi: ack, thanks | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic DNS | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DNS (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:44 | |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: hi | 15:44 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I will be pushing next review to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88624/ later today. I am almost done | 15:44 |
| mlavalle | adding the third case: external ip on proverder network (no floating ip) | 15:45 |
| mlavalle | I also want to ask yamamoto to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90150/ again | 15:45 |
| mlavalle | that is the nova side | 15:45 |
| yamamoto | sure | 15:46 |
| mlavalle | it is compatible now with its neutron counterpart, that is already merged | 15:46 |
| mlavalle | per your comment | 15:46 |
| mlavalle | and I will be pushing code for 88623 over the next few days | 15:46 |
| mlavalle | that's all so far | 15:47 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Sounds like the spec side is coming together. | 15:47 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: How about the code side? | 15:47 |
| mlavalle | yep, 88624 is ready for merge | 15:48 |
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| mlavalle | I will push code for 88623 over the next few days. Making progress | 15:48 |
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| mlavalle | and as soon as I am done with 88624, I will start coding that one as well | 15:49 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: great! | 15:49 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Address Scopes | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Address Scopes (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:50 | |
| carl_baldwin | Quick update on this. I think I have most of the L3 agent side worked out. But, much of it is WIP in my sandbox. I will work over the next week to clean it up in to nice patch to submit. | 15:50 |
| carl_baldwin | Vikram_ has also done some great work on the api and db side. | 15:51 |
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| Vikram_ | Will complete by this week | 15:51 |
| Vikram_ | and submit for review | 15:51 |
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| carl_baldwin | Vikram_: thanks. | 15:52 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic IPv6 | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IPv6 (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:53 | |
| carl_baldwin | Anything here? | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | haleyb: Are there any patches up for the issues that we’ve discovered recently? | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: Also, what needs to happen with prefix delegation? | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: Looks like a rebase is needed. I’ll watch for that and then review. | 15:57 |
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| bradjones | carl_baldwin: sorry wasn't around for comment earlier I was working on 1323766 a while back but the patch got abandoned because of testing issues | 15:58 |
| bradjones | carl_baldwin: shall I reactivate it, as I solved a lot of the issues around dual stack and can sort the tests out pretty quickly | 15:58 |
| carl_baldwin | bradjones: hi. Any plans to move forward with it? | 15:58 |
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| bradjones | carl_baldwin: yeah I can sort those tests out pretty quick so as long as I'm not treading on anyones toes i'll get that done | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | bradjones: You are welcome to reactivate it for bug 1323766 | 15:59 |
| openstack | bug 1323766 in neutron "Incorrect Floating IP behavior in dual stack or ipv6 only network" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1323766 - Assigned to Bradley Jones (bradjones) | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | bradjones: Thanks. | 15:59 |
| bradjones | carl_baldwin: no problem | 15:59 |
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| carl_baldwin | And, we’re out of time. Thanks everyone. There are lots of great things happening. | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| neiljerram | bye all | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 16:00:20 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2015/neutron_l3.2015-07-02-15.01.html | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2015/neutron_l3.2015-07-02-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| regXboi | bye everybody | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2015/neutron_l3.2015-07-02-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
| *** regXboi has left #openstack-meeting-3 | 16:00 | |
| yamamoto | bye | 16:00 |
| etoews | #startmeeting api wg | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 16:00:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is etoews. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg' | 16:00 |
| etoews | hi! | 16:00 |
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| Vikram_ | bye | 16:00 |
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| cdent | o/ | 16:01 |
| * etoews still updating agenda | 16:02 | |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 16:02 |
| miguelgrinberg | hello | 16:02 |
| stevelle | o/ | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | etoews: that's a pre-meeting agneda item | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | why didn't you do it then? | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 16:02 |
| ryansb | o/ | 16:02 |
| etoews | jit agenda | 16:02 |
| elmiko | o/ | 16:02 |
| ryansb | lol | 16:02 |
| etoews | #topic agenda | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:02 | |
| etoews | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda | 16:02 |
| etoews | i didn't get to all of the reviews that could be frozen. | 16:03 |
| etoews | #topic previous meeting action items | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "previous meeting action items (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:03 | |
| etoews | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2015/api_wg.2015-06-25-00.01.html | 16:03 |
| etoews | elmiko to freeze and notify about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180094 | 16:04 |
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| etoews | that happened right? | 16:04 |
| elmiko | yes | 16:04 |
| etoews | ++ | 16:04 |
| etoews | etoews experiment with creating a guideline status mailing list update | 16:04 |
| etoews | so i didn't get to any "experimenting" but i did give it some more thought | 16:05 |
| ryansb | one better, it's merged | 16:05 |
| etoews | i think i'll just send out an email on a bi-weekly or monthly basis just describing what we're up to | 16:06 |
| elmiko | +1 | 16:06 |
| cdent | that sounds about right etoews | 16:06 |
| cdent | people like the human touch | 16:06 |
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| elmiko | so, we are saying no to an indie 'zine that gets published during summit? ;) | 16:07 |
| etoews | i'm not not saying no | 16:07 |
| elmiko | lol | 16:07 |
| * elmiko puts away mimeograph machine | 16:07 | |
| ryansb | that's not right out, but I think email publishing costs are lower than indie 'zines | 16:07 |
| elmiko | fair | 16:07 |
| etoews | i was thinking about trying to put together a gerrit dashboard to include in the email but haven't had time to look into it | 16:08 |
| etoews | #link http://ghostcloud.net/openstack_gerrit_dashboards/ | 16:08 |
| etoews | #link https://github.com/stackforge/gerrit-dash-creator/ | 16:08 |
| elmiko | that sounds kinda cool | 16:09 |
| ryansb | good idea, I did that for heat a while ago | 16:09 |
| ryansb | and it seemed to be used by >0 people on the team | 16:09 |
| etoews | it would be nice to "encode" as much of our merge process into the dashboard | 16:09 |
| ryansb | though please shorten the URL before distributing the link | 16:09 |
| etoews | ya. some of the links it produces are pretty gnarly | 16:10 |
| ryansb | I think heat's dash is 2K | 16:10 |
| ryansb | the URL... | 16:10 |
| etoews | it basically looks like an sql injection attack | 16:10 |
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| etoews | anyway, no idea when i'd be able to get to that. | 16:11 |
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| elmiko | fwiw, it sounds really nice | 16:11 |
| etoews | ryansb: i might ping you about it if i run into any issues | 16:12 |
| etoews | #topic ongoing reviews of API impacting code/spec | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ongoing reviews of API impacting code/spec (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:12 | |
| ryansb | kk, here's what the heatdash looks like http://supb.ro/heatdash | 16:12 |
| etoews | so this is the kind of thing i'd like to include in the newsletter | 16:13 |
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| etoews | a list of the ongoing reviews of API impacting code/spec | 16:13 |
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| etoews | the only one i'm currently aware of is the glance artifacts api spec | 16:14 |
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| etoews | what else is out there that people are reviewing? | 16:14 |
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| elmiko | we've had a minor one in sahara, but it wasn't large enough to pull in others | 16:15 |
| elmiko | also, it touched on the old /task endpoint debate ;) | 16:15 |
| etoews | link? | 16:15 |
| etoews | i'm looking for anything within the past month btw | 16:15 |
| etoews | doesn't have to be currently under review | 16:16 |
| elmiko | sec | 16:16 |
| elmiko | oh, heh, he forgot to mark it as APIImpact... | 16:17 |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188011/ | 16:17 |
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| elmiko | and i forgot to remind him... | 16:17 |
| etoews | thx | 16:17 |
| etoews | anyone else? | 16:18 |
| etoews | it would be nice to have at least one more example ;) | 16:18 |
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| ryansb | *crickets* | 16:19 |
| cdent | we all seem a bit tired today | 16:20 |
| etoews | there must be something in nova. /ping alex_xu | 16:20 |
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| etoews | oh well | 16:20 |
| etoews | #topic guidelines | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "guidelines (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:21 | |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z | 16:21 |
| elmiko | i could really use more eyeballs on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183698/ | 16:21 |
| elmiko | =) | 16:21 |
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| etoews | let's have a look | 16:21 |
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| etoews | "In these cases though, the implementor should exercise caution to only return these codes in situations where an error cannot be handled by the server." | 16:23 |
| miguelgrinberg | I really don't have enough justification to -1, but I think text treats things as black or white, ignoring the frequently occurring gray zones | 16:23 |
| etoews | do you mean "...handled by the application code." ? | 16:24 |
| cdent | miguelgrinberg: isn't that rather the point: the guidelines need to paint a black and white picture so that the grey zones are tiny | 16:24 |
| etoews | cdent: ++ | 16:24 |
| elmiko | etoews: yea, that might be a better way to word it | 16:25 |
| miguelgrinberg | yeah well, I think the gray zones are there regardless of what the guidelines say | 16:25 |
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| etoews | miguelgrinberg: what gray zones did you have in mind in this case? | 16:25 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: i added the second paragraph to help address the grey zones | 16:25 |
| etoews | we are the beacon of light that leads developers out of gray zones | 16:25 |
| miguelgrinberg | well, I think making a distinction between server and app is really not that interesting when you look at things from the client side | 16:25 |
| miguelgrinberg | from the client it's just a server, who cares if the 5xx codes are generated by the app or the server proper | 16:26 |
| cdent | we are not writing guidelines for the client side miguelgrinberg, we're writing guidelines for people developing api services | 16:26 |
| miguelgrinberg | catching exceptions and replacing them with a 500 is a good example of this | 16:26 |
| etoews | but our audience is primarily the openstack contributors developing those servers | 16:26 |
| cdent | (sorry, I got to dash away for about 5 minutes, brb) | 16:26 |
| ryansb | to be fair, those same folks also write clients | 16:27 |
| miguelgrinberg | What I mean is that I consider the app part of the server, because all that matters is how the client uses these responses | 16:27 |
| etoews | right. but 5xx says that things are screwed up beyond the app code ability to deal with them. | 16:29 |
| elmiko | i think it does make a difference on the server side when you think about 500/501 vs 502/503/504/505 though | 16:29 |
| etoews | if i'm writing a client, i know that 5xx probably isn't recoverable in the near term | 16:29 |
| etoews | so giving guidance to openstack contributors on it is valuable imo | 16:30 |
| miguelgrinberg | etoews: right, that's the scope of the 500x, saying that they come from the server and not the app does not really help much | 16:30 |
| elmiko | imo, these 5xx guidelines are more oriented at server side development | 16:31 |
| cdent | the implication miguelgrinberg is that application code should not raise MyFiveHundredException('whoops') | 16:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | you can say that "normally these errors are generated by the WSGI layer" or something to that effect, but it isn't black and white | 16:31 |
| cdent | only the server should explicitly do that kind of thing | 16:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | but there is one clear case we all agree on where a 500 is appropriate (exceptions that are unhandled) | 16:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | so that breaks your rule | 16:31 |
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| elmiko | thats also why i said *should not* instead of *must not* | 16:32 |
| elmiko | and then added the example of when you might generate them | 16:32 |
| ryansb | yeah, but unhandled exceptions are (to an extent) implicit, since you needn't go out of your way to *not* handle them | 16:33 |
| miguelgrinberg | well, but I could see a case where application code may end up all confused and throw a 500 to get out of a mess. Why not? | 16:34 |
| miguelgrinberg | That's what the 500 is about | 16:34 |
| elmiko | ok, so the main point of this guideline was to add something for developers creating server-side apps. does it seem appropriate for that type of guidance? | 16:34 |
| miguelgrinberg | it does not need to be just for unhandled exceptions | 16:34 |
| elmiko | agreed miguelgrinberg, that's why i added the example of when you might raise a 500 | 16:35 |
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| elmiko | i just wanted to signal that "hey, you might need to do this and that's acceptable" | 16:35 |
| etoews | i think it's appropriate. it strongly discourages dev from throwing a 5xx. | 16:35 |
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| cdent | you raise a 500 when you catch an unhandled exception, but your app has unhandled exceptions _regularly_ it is broken and should be handling those exceptions more defensively | 16:35 |
| elmiko | right, unless you have a good reason | 16:35 |
| cdent | if it can defend against them, then it can also turn them into 4xx | 16:36 |
| elmiko | cdent: agreed | 16:36 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: not always | 16:36 |
| miguelgrinberg | I disagree with the idea of the 400 being a catch-all for app errors for example | 16:36 |
| cdent | You'll need to convince me miguelgrinberg because you just saying "not always" isn't really getting anywhere | 16:36 |
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| etoews | "throwing a 500 to get out of a mess" concerns me. 500 is not a get out of jail free card. | 16:37 |
| miguelgrinberg | 5xx are for server errors and 4xx are for user errors, you have to return the ones that makes sense, who generates what does not matter | 16:37 |
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| etoews | to me the flow would be like this | 16:38 |
| miguelgrinberg | etoews: I think it is. If there is a bug in the code, and that takes you to a place you shouldn't be, I think 500 makes sense | 16:38 |
| cdent | sure miguelgrinberg: the point I'm trying to make is that server errors should be minimized, by being defensive, and if you can be defensive you can almost always define the error as a 4xx | 16:38 |
| cdent | so if you _cannot defend_ then a 500 makes sense | 16:38 |
| cdent | but that should be vanishingly rare (in the ideal case) | 16:39 |
| cdent | and the guidelines should be representing the idealized aspirational case | 16:39 |
| etoews | the code has a bug and does handle it, it throws a 500 but this is a **temporary** situation. | 16:39 |
| etoews | the code gets fixed, deployed, and that 500 goes away. | 16:39 |
| miguelgrinberg | temporary until you upgrade | 16:39 |
| etoews | ++ | 16:39 |
| miguelgrinberg | that's still the intended use for a 500 | 16:40 |
| etoews | and that's fine | 16:40 |
| etoews | i just prefer to strongly discourage using 500 as an out | 16:40 |
| etoews | devs **will** abuse it | 16:40 |
| cdent | etoews++ | 16:41 |
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| etoews | it's natural that 500s happen from time to time because bugs but let's not encourage their use | 16:41 |
| elmiko | etoews: +1 | 16:41 |
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| elmiko | i'm gonna make the change etoews suggested, but then could we continue the argument on the review? | 16:42 |
| cdent | elmiko++ | 16:42 |
| miguelgrinberg | yep | 16:42 |
| etoews | elmiko: good point. | 16:42 |
| elmiko | (i'm slightly confused about how to improve the language in the guideline) | 16:42 |
| elmiko | thanks everybody! | 16:42 |
| stevelle | do we need a recommendation that says "fix your bugs?" :) | 16:43 |
| miguelgrinberg | I prefer "do not write bugs in your app" | 16:43 |
| * cdent sighs | 16:43 | |
| elmiko | lol | 16:43 |
| elmiko | stevelle: that should be the only guideline ;) | 16:43 |
| etoews | yep. just add that guideline and our work here is done. | 16:44 |
| stevelle | great, we adjourn for lemonade then? | 16:44 |
| etoews | a spot of tea | 16:44 |
| ryansb | now that you finished all the guidelines, sure | 16:44 |
| etoews | #topic freezing | 16:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "freezing (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:45 | |
| etoews | lots of guidelines ready for freeze | 16:45 |
| etoews | the list on the agenda isn't even complete. | 16:45 |
| elmiko | \o/ | 16:45 |
| etoews | i've been adding CPL reviewers with this script. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193753/1/tools/add-reviewers.py | 16:46 |
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| etoews | Salvatore Orlando had a question about doing this with a gerrit group instead | 16:47 |
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| etoews | iirc i think someone explored that | 16:47 |
| etoews | but i may not recall correctly | 16:47 |
| etoews | does that ring any bells for anyone? | 16:47 |
| cdent | how easy is it to manage those groups | 16:47 |
| etoews | i think you need gerrit admin so not easy at all | 16:48 |
| ryansb | probably harder than updating a json file | 16:48 |
| etoews | my thoughts too | 16:48 |
| cdent | thus my question | 16:48 |
| etoews | alright. i think i'll just go forward with the script then. | 16:49 |
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| ryansb | +1 | 16:49 |
| etoews | elmiko: anything you want to discuss on re-review? | 16:49 |
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| elmiko | not specifically, just that we need to be dilligent about getting those back out the door =) | 16:50 |
| etoews | ++ | 16:50 |
| elmiko | they have been sitting for awhile after being reviewed by the larger openstack group | 16:50 |
| etoews | #topic APIImpact | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APIImpact (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 16:50 | |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+AND+(message:ApiImpact+OR+message:APIImpact),n,z | 16:50 |
| etoews | what's going on here? #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147738/ | 16:52 |
| cdent | that's a rather interesting sample url | 16:53 |
| ryansb | There's #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188364/7 that's about adding an API for describing supported heat functions | 16:53 |
| * cdent needs to eke out more time for this aspect of the work | 16:53 | |
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| etoews | cdent: looks nothing like we have in http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#filtering | 16:53 |
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| cdent | indeed | 16:54 |
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| elmiko | its an interesting use though, how would we recommend specifying something like the glance metadata as filter options? | 16:55 |
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| ryansb | 4 minute warning | 16:56 |
| cdent | I'm not sure if we want to use ceilometer as an exemplar but the way it tends to refer to metadata keys is metdata.<some key> | 16:56 |
| cdent | and things of that ilk | 16:56 |
| cdent | so using '.' as a descent indicator | 16:56 |
| elmiko | ah, so in this case, /volumes/details?glance_metadata.image_name=xxx ? | 16:57 |
| cdent | yeah, but then you've got problems with things named image.name | 16:57 |
| elmiko | right | 16:57 |
| cdent | so it just moves the worms around | 16:57 |
| elmiko | interesting question though | 16:57 |
| etoews | well comment on the review if you have time/energy. | 17:00 |
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| etoews | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 17:00:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2015/api_wg.2015-07-02-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2015/api_wg.2015-07-02-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2015/api_wg.2015-07-02-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| etoews | thanks all! | 17:00 |
| ryansb | Thanks! | 17:00 |
| docaedo | #startmeeting app-catalog | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 17:01:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is docaedo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| elmiko | thanks etoews | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'app_catalog' | 17:01 |
| docaedo | #topic rollcall | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:01 | |
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| docaedo | Who do we have here today? Might be a quicker meeting :) | 17:01 |
| sgordon | >.> | 17:01 |
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| kfox1111 | o/ | 17:02 |
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| docaedo | ok, well .. here we go! | 17:02 |
| docaedo | #topic Single YAML file switch status update (docaedo) | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Single YAML file switch status update (docaedo) (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:02 | |
| docaedo | I've been taking a little time off so haven't been able to focus on this much but I think I should be able to sort it out and get at least a WIP checked in today. | 17:02 |
| docaedo | My plan is to just add a new field "asset_type", and adjust the schema to have all the fields and only require the ones that are common across current assets. | 17:03 |
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| docaedo | We can easily adjust from there, but will appreciate feedback or thoughts on how to approach this if you have any. | 17:03 |
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| docaedo | The intention here is to make it easier to support new/unknown asset types. Once this is merged then we can work on a new layout for the site that can show new asset types as they are added to the yaml | 17:04 |
| kfox1111 | +1. | 17:04 |
| docaedo | I added the work items I think we need to do this here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/app-catalog/+spec/expand-asset-types | 17:04 |
| kfox1111 | it would be nice to copy some of the new attributes from glance too. like license. | 17:04 |
| docaedo | would appreciate any addition steps or considerations | 17:04 |
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| docaedo | kfox1111: sure | 17:05 |
| kfox1111 | the work items looks good. | 17:05 |
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| docaedo | Thanks :) Anything else on this topic? Pretty straightforward stuff I guess... | 17:06 |
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| docaedo | #topic Horizon panel status update (kfox1111) | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon panel status update (kfox1111) (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:07 | |
| kfox1111 | haven't gotten a chance to do anything else since last week. | 17:07 |
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| docaedo | no prob - would it be worth starting a ML thread to get input from anyone else on the topic? | 17:08 |
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| kfox1111 | possibly? some folks last meeting said they were going to play around with it and maybe extend it for glance/murano. Maybe we wait a bit and see what falls out from that. | 17:09 |
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| kfox1111 | one topic related to the ui that may need discussing... | 17:09 |
| docaedo | sounds good to me (waiting a bit to see if there's anything coming from others) | 17:09 |
| kfox1111 | the app catalog is somewhat disjoint from any cloud release. | 17:09 |
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| docaedo | what's the UI topic? | 17:10 |
| kfox1111 | since it is continuously updated, while the cloud itself is probably older then the current release. | 17:10 |
| docaedo | "it" in this case being the app catalog? | 17:10 |
| kfox1111 | so we could have two options. 1, we release plugins for given releases and have to maintain backwards compatability. | 17:11 |
| kfox1111 | yes. | 17:11 |
| kfox1111 | or b, the horizon code includes javascript/templates/etc directly from apps.catalog.org allowing it to be upgraded outside of a cloud's upgrade cycle. | 17:11 |
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| docaedo | I think most will lean towards option 1 - I know people get jumpy about pulling in even JS externally | 17:12 |
| kfox1111 | I'm kind of afraid with as much changes that will happen as quickly as they will happen once we start adding advanced features like faceting, or changing the yaml to json and do one template, | 17:12 |
| kfox1111 | that the option 1 will break frequently or we have to depricate frequently. :/ | 17:12 |
| kfox1111 | the other option is somewhere in between. we release a plugin frequenty for all the major cloud versions we support, and like google does, | 17:13 |
| kfox1111 | unless the plugins the most recent, it says "notify yoru cloud admin to upgrade" | 17:13 |
| kfox1111 | and make it very simple to upgrade. | 17:13 |
| kfox1111 | like, seperate the javascript/template from the rest of the plugin, and make it simple to drop in the new files. | 17:14 |
| docaedo | The way I see it, what we'll get together at this stage will be very much PoC for Horizon. Too late to even land a spec for L release, but possibly have something ready for M | 17:14 |
| kfox1111 | the nice thing about plugins is they don't have to land in horizon. they can be seperate. | 17:14 |
| docaedo | That idea (upgradable plugin) sounds nice, but are there any other horizon components that work that way? | 17:14 |
| kfox1111 | I think it will be too much work to target before L, but L should be supportable. | 17:15 |
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| kfox1111 | no. but there are no horizon components that are global in nature either. | 17:15 |
| kfox1111 | all the rest target the local cloud. | 17:15 |
| docaedo | yeah - this is new territory as far as I can see. I would say plan for plugin, not worry too much about compatability or upgrating ATM, and expect to work closely with Horizon team to solve this | 17:16 |
| kfox1111 | if we don't do the upgradable plugin thing, then we have to define our data + api's very carefully since we will have to support them for years. | 17:16 |
| docaedo | +1 for defining the data and APIs carefully | 17:16 |
| kfox1111 | I think it will be very hard to do that without a lot more experience though. :/ | 17:16 |
| docaedo | Yeah - guess this is not exactly easy but should be fun at any rate | 17:17 |
| kfox1111 | we're in the v1 age, and what openstack project thinks their v1 apis are still good ideas? :/ | 17:17 |
| kfox1111 | agreed. | 17:17 |
| kfox1111 | if we go down that route, we should maybe make a work item for coming up with a v1 api then. | 17:17 |
| kfox1111 | I'm kind of afraid that the api for v1 with just flat files vs llike a v2 with elasticsearch woudl be so vastly different, maintaining v1 after v2 comes along will be next to impossible. :/ | 17:18 |
| docaedo | Suggest we focus just on showing how it could work for now, as a horizon plugin with the assumption that the data supplied by JSON won't change much. Then any work integrating glance as a backend will have to be closely tied to the horizon plugin | 17:18 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. was planning on doing that anway. just wanted to spark the conversation. cause its something we need to think about for the longer term. | 17:19 |
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| docaedo | agreed - think that conversation will need some input from glance and horizon folk (and we have neither here today as far as I can tell) | 17:19 |
| docaedo | speaking of that... | 17:20 |
| docaedo | ativelkov: able to make it today? | 17:20 |
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| docaedo | ok before we move on - I think we're on the same page re: short term work with horizon, right? I can help get more people engaged on this topic over the next few days too. | 17:21 |
| docaedo | (well, more like, next week :) | 17:21 |
| kfox1111 | yup. | 17:21 |
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| kfox1111 | just setting expectations at this point. | 17:22 |
| docaedo | yep, thank you for that | 17:22 |
| kfox1111 | when we make the json available, it will break in the near future when we decide what to do with it. | 17:22 |
| docaedo | yep - though we can include a version in the json itself (clunky but would work), and make the plugin "smart" about what to expect when it pulls in the JSON | 17:23 |
| kfox1111 | yes, just worred long term, if we get too many entries, that will just break entirely. | 17:24 |
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| docaedo | very true and good thing to keep in mind... | 17:24 |
| kfox1111 | we will have to put a search api in front and depricate the single file. | 17:24 |
| docaedo | definitely, but I imagine that will come from glance artifact repository right? If we're going to store stuff there, might as well make use of the features and as I understand it, searching the glance repo is part of the package | 17:25 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. if the POC pans out, the glance api becomes the app catalog api. | 17:26 |
| docaedo | +1 | 17:26 |
| docaedo | ok moving on I think? | 17:26 |
| kfox1111 | yup. | 17:26 |
| docaedo | going to push this to next week and hope ativelkov can join "Backing catalog with glance POS status update (ativelkov)" | 17:27 |
| kfox1111 | k. | 17:27 |
| docaedo | #topic Stale URL checker (gosha) | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stale URL checker (gosha) (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:27 | |
| docaedo | Think I'll remind one more time via email on this one, and if there's no response we'll have someone else (me probably) take it on. | 17:28 |
| docaedo | Seems like a relatively easy thing to do, and there's already examples in the system-config repo | 17:29 |
| docaedo | So next topic (and maybe it'll be very short?) | 17:29 |
| docaedo | #topic Heat template env (kfox1111) | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat template env (kfox1111) (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:29 | |
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| kfox1111 | was talking with the heat folks, and they believe the environment is somewhat part of the template to be provided by the app developer. | 17:30 |
| kfox1111 | so we probably should provide an environment_url in addition to the template_url as an option. | 17:30 |
| kfox1111 | And modify the horizon plugin to support that too. | 17:30 |
| docaedo | would environment_url be different than the horizon URL? what would it contain? | 17:31 |
| docaedo | (i.e. meant to say "this template only works in rackspace", or "this template only works in HP public cloud" | 17:32 |
| kfox1111 | long term, the env_url will contain all the options for making it specific to various clouds, and the heat engine will present the appropriate ui to the user to customize. | 17:33 |
| kfox1111 | so the env would have both nova-network and neutron support and the heat ui would provide the choice, for example. | 17:34 |
| docaedo | interesting - I thought that was sort of handled by requirements already, but that expects the user to make sense of them and know what's offered by their provider... | 17:34 |
| kfox1111 | longer term, I'm pushing for them to make that more automagic in some cases. but baby steps. | 17:34 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. | 17:34 |
| docaedo | yep - well I agree should be some magic there, in theory a template should "just work" :) | 17:35 |
| kfox1111 | heat now has some cloud introspection capabilities itself. | 17:35 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. so we talked, and the plan is to do it in heat, rather then try and do a bunch of logic in the app catalog ui. | 17:35 |
| docaedo | +10 for that, app catalog should never try to resolve cross-cloud compatability issues IMO | 17:36 |
| kfox1111 | so we just provide the env file and template file to the heat ui, and they do the rest. | 17:36 |
| docaedo | that approach makes sense to me | 17:36 |
| kfox1111 | I think we're going to still need to do some amount of that, just from the stand point of, if a template's known never to work on an older cloud for example, why bother the user with the option at all? | 17:37 |
| kfox1111 | same with glance images. don't present hyperv images if the cloud doesn't have hyperv support at all. | 17:37 |
| kfox1111 | a much easier filtering though. | 17:37 |
| docaedo | I would argue that it's on the user to figure that out - yes, through a filter | 17:38 |
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| docaedo | i.e. uncheck hyper-v images, uncheck vmware images, etc. | 17:38 |
| docaedo | so app catalog should not try to discover what a user can use (i.e. do not try to detect if murano is installed somehow) | 17:38 |
| kfox1111 | google does it with their store. if the phone isn't new enough for the apk, it just doesn't even show it to them. | 17:38 |
| kfox1111 | its a better user experience. | 17:39 |
| kfox1111 | it probably shouldn't detect it, but it might be something the operator is allowed to configure. | 17:39 |
| docaedo | I see the UX advantage there for sure, but what a can of worms that becomes the further down the stack you try to walk | 17:39 |
| docaedo | +1 on allowing operator to limit what is shown in horizon UI | 17:40 |
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| kfox1111 | k. | 17:41 |
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| docaedo | ready for our last big exciting topic? | 17:41 |
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| docaedo | #topic Open discussion | 17:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:42 | |
| docaedo | sgordon: did you have anything you wanted to cover? | 17:42 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 17:43 | |
| docaedo | kfox1111: anything from your side? | 17:43 |
| kfox1111 | nothing else at the moment. | 17:44 |
| docaedo | OK looks like we get 15 minutes back :) | 17:44 |
| kfox1111 | awesome. :) | 17:44 |
| docaedo | Thanks - looking forward to continuing the conversation on #openstack-app-catalog | 17:44 |
| kfox1111 | have a great weekend. :) | 17:45 |
| docaedo | you too! | 17:45 |
| docaedo | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 17:45:20 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2015/app_catalog.2015-07-02-17.01.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2015/app_catalog.2015-07-02-17.01.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2015/app_catalog.2015-07-02-17.01.log.html | 17:45 |
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| mattgriffin | megm_, ping | 19:17 |
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| megm_ | Anyone here to discuss he HA Guide? | 20:02 |
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| megm_ | Hi, egallen. Are you here for the HA Guide meeting? | 20:03 |
| egallen | No | 20:03 |
| megm_ | Ah, too bad. But have a nice day. | 20:03 |
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| megm_ | Hi, stevemar. Are you here for the HA Guide meeting? | 20:06 |
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