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| ildikov | #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute | 20:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 9 20:00:06 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_upstream_institute)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute' | 20:00 |
| jungleboyj | @! | 20:00 |
| _pewp_ | jungleboyj (^o^)/ | 20:00 |
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| ildikov | jungleboyj: hi :) | 20:00 |
| jungleboyj | Hello. :-) | 20:01 |
| spotz | \o/ | 20:01 |
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| ildikov | I wonder whether we have vkmc diablo_rojo smcginnis around? | 20:03 |
| vkmc | o/ | 20:03 |
| spotz | woot | 20:03 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 20:03 |
| ildikov | ok, let's start | 20:04 |
| ildikov | agenda for today: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-upstream-institute-meetings | 20:04 |
| ildikov | we have 8 people signed up for the training as of yet | 20:05 |
| ildikov | so do promo plz :) | 20:06 |
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| ildikov | I also had in mind to look into user groups in the area to help us spread the word | 20:06 |
| ildikov | #topic Contributor Guide Repo | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Contributor Guide Repo (Meeting topic: openstack_upstream_institute)" | 20:07 | |
| ildikov | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project/913 | 20:07 |
| ildikov | as usual the Story for the content migration | 20:07 |
| jungleboyj | :-( Will twitter again. | 20:08 |
| ildikov | and to build up the Contributor Guide in general | 20:08 |
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| ildikov | jungleboyj: tnx! | 20:08 |
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| ildikov | in correspondence to that you can find the open reviews here: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/contributor-guide+status:open | 20:09 |
| spotz | I'm kinda looking through the content on the site as I update the Git and Gerrit slide deck | 20:10 |
| ildikov | there's still content to cover in the guide and content to remove from the slides | 20:10 |
| * jungleboyj has really been meaning to look at what is there and work on what I can. | 20:10 | |
| ildikov | spotz: diablo_rojo has a review update on review for instance | 20:10 |
| spotz | I'm wondering if we should stress that projects can be in either but the ubuntu one is for both | 20:10 |
| spotz | ildikov: Yeah I've been going through and reviewing | 20:11 |
| diablo_rojo | o/ | 20:11 |
| ildikov | spotz: yep, remember seeing your reviews :) | 20:11 |
| ildikov | others should follow the good example!! :) | 20:11 |
| ildikov | spotz: updating the slide deck? | 20:12 |
| spotz | ildikov: lunch and learn slide deck | 20:12 |
| ildikov | spotz: ah, ok | 20:13 |
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| ildikov | it crossed through my mind, but wasn't 100% sure :) | 20:13 |
| jungleboyj | spotz: You need help with that again? | 20:14 |
| spotz | So like I'll make note to talk about both systems being used and the login is for both. I know we'll do that during training but I'm not sure it's clear on the page itself | 20:14 |
| spotz | jungleboyj: always:) | 20:14 |
| jungleboyj | spotz: Ok, can be there if it isn't Thursday lunch. | 20:14 |
| spotz | jungleboyj: Tuesday:) | 20:15 |
| ildikov | spotz: I have to admit I concentrated more on per review, so I don't have the full picture yet | 20:15 |
| jungleboyj | spotz: Excellent. | 20:15 |
| ildikov | spotz: my guess is that the training will be a good test to the Contributor Guide from this perspective | 20:15 |
| spotz | ildikov: Yeah and it's a what if someone is just reading the page on their own observation vs in the context of training | 20:15 |
| jungleboyj | ildikov: Agreed. | 20:16 |
| ildikov | spotz: yep, although we will bring those two closer now :) | 20:16 |
| jungleboyj | Guessing we will have a lot of work coming out of the Summit too. | 20:16 |
| ildikov | jungleboyj: probably | 20:17 |
| spotz | We can teach how to d a patch on the content:) | 20:17 |
| ildikov | :) | 20:17 |
| ildikov | anything else to the Contributor Guide migration? | 20:17 |
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| jungleboyj | spotz: ++ | 20:18 |
| * fungi thinks that's a swell idea (use improving the contributor guide as a source of training patches) | 20:18 | |
| jungleboyj | Self teaching education. | 20:18 |
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| smcginnis | Best way to show how this all works. | 20:19 |
| * diablo_rojo agrees! | 20:19 | |
| spotz | And I tend to like to fix things as I find them hence the idea:) | 20:19 |
| ildikov | the advantage of that one is that we will have people in the room, who can approve changes :) | 20:19 |
| vkmc | sounds very good | 20:19 |
| vkmc | we need to do a triaging before the training so they have a bunch of bugs to take | 20:20 |
| diablo_rojo | Might give a skewed frame of reference for how quickly things will get reviewed and merged, but I am all for it :) | 20:20 |
| ildikov | diablo_rojo: yeah, it's more as an example to the whole process rather than setting expectations | 20:20 |
| vkmc | yeah, we have done this before... we might have some cases in which the review process goes for too long | 20:20 |
| spotz | Well we just let them know. It'll be a bunch of +1s | 20:20 |
| smcginnis | diablo_rojo: A couple of us could nit pick their patches. ;) | 20:21 |
| ildikov | smcginnis: lol :) | 20:21 |
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis, :) | 20:21 |
| jungleboyj | sad trombone.wav | 20:21 |
| smcginnis | It would give them the full experience at least. | 20:21 |
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| ildikov | smcginnis: we don't want to scare them away ;) | 20:22 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Is too quiet and polite to scare people away. | 20:23 |
| ildikov | :) | 20:24 |
| ildikov | ok, let's move on | 20:25 |
| ildikov | #topic Upstream Institute web content vs format | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upstream Institute web content vs format (Meeting topic: openstack_upstream_institute)" | 20:25 | |
| ildikov | so looking into the current stage of the content slides I started to wonder whether we would want to keep the slide format or switch to sub-pages? | 20:26 |
| diablo_rojo | Slides I think work for exercises. | 20:27 |
| ildikov | vkmc: do you remember how the Django Girls tutorial/workshop is presented? | 20:27 |
| diablo_rojo | Not sure I would want a wall of text. | 20:27 |
| vkmc | ildikov, yeah | 20:27 |
| jungleboyj | diablo_rojo: Agree. | 20:28 |
| spotz | Yeah if everything is there they're just going to go ahead and work on their own | 20:28 |
| vkmc | there are no presentations, it's more a self driven workshop | 20:28 |
| ildikov | spotz: that's kind of what we were brainstorming about in Dublin | 20:28 |
| vkmc | attendees are separated in tables | 20:28 |
| vkmc | and there are mentors helping them to do stuff | 20:28 |
| spotz | So no presenters, everyone with the webpages up and each table going at their own pace? | 20:29 |
| jungleboyj | vkmc: Oh so we are taking the presentation aspect totally away? | 20:29 |
| ildikov | vkmc: thanks | 20:29 |
| vkmc | jungleboyj, we can try something in the middle | 20:30 |
| diablo_rojo | I think in the middle. | 20:30 |
| ildikov | spotz: we would have checkpoints and need to figure out how to share best practices the best | 20:30 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, the totally self driven sessions seem to just fall apart. | 20:30 |
| ildikov | spotz: and mentors would encourage students to help each other on the way | 20:30 |
| diablo_rojo | Obviously we wouldn't walk through each step in each section of the guide, but do a brief intro and then just mill around helping people as they go and when everyone gets to the end of one section- we do it again. | 20:30 |
| vkmc | #link https://tutorial.djangogirls.org/ | 20:30 |
| vkmc | that is the guide they use in djangogirls ^ | 20:31 |
| diablo_rojo | Is my thoughts.. | 20:31 |
| ildikov | diablo_rojo: yep, something like that | 20:31 |
| jungleboyj | diablo_rojo: Yeah, if we have clear checkpoints with goals in between I think that is best. | 20:31 |
| ildikov | we can also do a quiz at the end of the sections and give stickers or chocolate, etc | 20:32 |
| jungleboyj | ildikov: ++ That is the fun part! | 20:32 |
| ildikov | while encouraging them to remember what they learnt | 20:32 |
| diablo_rojo | ildikov, +1 | 20:33 |
| ildikov | and ensure everyone got the main ideas of the sections | 20:33 |
| fungi | it's very webby, but since that's the django community's forté i'm unsurprised by it | 20:33 |
| ildikov | :) | 20:33 |
| diablo_rojo | We need to come up with WAY more exercises. | 20:33 |
| ildikov | fungi: what do you think our forté is? :) | 20:34 |
| vkmc | fungi, yeah, our version would be the contributors guide | 20:34 |
| diablo_rojo | Down the road we could even link the exercises at the end of the sections. | 20:34 |
| ildikov | diablo_rojo: +a zillion!! | 20:34 |
| spotz | Yeah I think the quizes or the who's got ____ with prizes will help keep everyone together and incentivized | 20:34 |
| vkmc | everytime we have an upstream training I hear from attendees that they want to start hacking | 20:34 |
| vkmc | it's like they go crazy with it | 20:34 |
| vkmc | they just want to have openstack working and submit some fix | 20:34 |
| diablo_rojo | I still have a lot of OUI sitckers. | 20:34 |
| ildikov | I have some other stickers and pens left too | 20:35 |
| ildikov | vkmc: +1 | 20:35 |
| fungi | ildikov: i'd hate to see us implement a new contributor guide as a rest api, i'll just say that ;) | 20:35 |
| spotz | I can get us pineheads(the penguin) again if we want. Haven't hit up github yet | 20:35 |
| ildikov | fungi: sigh ;) | 20:35 |
| diablo_rojo | I want a sweater with the OUI logo embroidered on it to wear this time | 20:36 |
| ildikov | spotz: I have some of those left, will check how many | 20:36 |
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| diablo_rojo | Or a hoodie. | 20:36 |
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| * diablo_rojo thinks to herself | 20:36 | |
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| ildikov | it would be pretty cool! | 20:36 |
| spotz | ooh hoodies! | 20:38 |
| * jungleboyj loves hoodies. What else do you wear when working at home? | 20:39 | |
| spotz | Well I'm one of those always cold types so.... | 20:39 |
| fungi | pajamas ;) | 20:40 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: I knew someone was going to go there after I typed it. | 20:40 |
| vkmc | pajamas++ | 20:40 |
| ildikov | I guess we need to add the hoodie to the wishlist of possible OpenStack swags :) | 20:40 |
| vkmc | openstack pajamas... omg | 20:40 |
| ildikov | :D | 20:40 |
| jungleboyj | ildikov: Hopefully we will get you enough funding for that. | 20:40 |
| jungleboyj | LOL | 20:40 |
| spotz | Why is your entire wardrobe dalmatians, ponies and OPenStack?:) | 20:40 |
| fungi | openstack logo pajamas billed as "wfh business attire" | 20:40 |
| ildikov | jungleboyj: sounds good, tnx :) | 20:40 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, you and me both lol | 20:40 |
| jungleboyj | OS PJs | 20:40 |
| vkmc | fungi++ | 20:41 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ | 20:41 |
| spotz | fungi: Oh and for summer... Board shorts:) | 20:41 |
| diablo_rojo | I think we are getting off topic here a bit :) | 20:42 |
| smcginnis | +1 for OpenStack PJs. | 20:42 |
| jungleboyj | This derailment would have killed people in real life. | 20:42 |
| * fungi apologizes to the train conductor | 20:42 | |
| ildikov | ok, let's get back to topic :) | 20:43 |
| vkmc | so... people wants to contribute... then, we could have the contributors guide made for that | 20:43 |
| smcginnis | Knowing fungi's attire, I'm surprised there are not any OpenStack Hawaiian shirts. | 20:43 |
| vkmc | like a trial and error subguide that leads you from 0 to first fix contributed | 20:43 |
| ildikov | smcginnis: +1 :) | 20:43 |
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis, my thoughts exactly | 20:43 |
| vkmc | using the training guides as an example | 20:43 |
| jungleboyj | Sounds cool. | 20:44 |
| smcginnis | vkmc: I like that idea. | 20:44 |
| vkmc | and the "presentation" part would be more about governance... which is what people thinks when they start seeing things that are not clear and they care about... who decides on the bps, how is the review process | 20:44 |
| ildikov | vkmc: to each project or to the training guides repo specifically? | 20:44 |
| vkmc | ildikov, just to keep it simple, to the training guides | 20:44 |
| ildikov | vkmc: ok | 20:45 |
| vkmc | because each project have different ways to deploying the dev environment | 20:45 |
| vkmc | it's not the same to deploy nova than deploy... I dunno, sahara | 20:45 |
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| jungleboyj | vkmc: makes sense | 20:45 |
| ildikov | vkmc: the first thing we will do with them is to set up the VM image with Devstack | 20:45 |
| vkmc | BUT, the process is the same: go to the project contributors docs, check out instructions on how to deploy, check out instructions on how to contribute | 20:46 |
| vkmc | ildikov, yes! | 20:46 |
| ildikov | so those who have interest in the projects they can hack during the last part of the training | 20:46 |
| vkmc | exactly | 20:46 |
| vkmc | and... I see several pros on that approach: 1. attendees understand and get ready to contribute (they have everything set up) 2. most contributors arrive on sunday, so maybe we can get more attendance from mentors from different projects and attendees can ask specific stuff | 20:47 |
| vkmc | 1 + 2 == potentially more engagement after the training | 20:47 |
| ildikov | +1 | 20:48 |
| spotz | vkmc we've always tried to get them on Sunday | 20:48 |
| vkmc | spotz, yeah :) | 20:48 |
| spotz | I think the trouble is folks arriving early enough to help. Many get in later in the day | 20:49 |
| ildikov | vkmc: besides adding the missing content to the Contributor Guide how do you think we should restructure the training content website to match your idea? | 20:50 |
| vkmc | ildikov, I'd put stuff in a more trial an error fashion | 20:52 |
| vkmc | how to put this... | 20:52 |
| vkmc | usually new contributors think... ok... I want to contribute | 20:52 |
| vkmc | which project should I be contributing? | 20:52 |
| vkmc | you can find the list of openstack projects in... (...) | 20:52 |
| vkmc | in this guide we will take as an example, the training guides | 20:52 |
| vkmc | now... how can I contribute? | 20:53 |
| vkmc | bug fixing | 20:53 |
| vkmc | (...) | 20:53 |
| vkmc | and you explain how to do things and how, in most project, in generally is | 20:53 |
| ildikov | ok, that makes sense | 20:54 |
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| vkmc | (this is in my mind, I'm not entirely sure how that would work) | 20:54 |
| vkmc | what do you think? | 20:54 |
| ildikov | we can guide them how to find bugs to fix in the task tracker or just look into the project, etc. | 20:54 |
| ildikov | if you can't get through the process how to find help in the governance structure | 20:55 |
| smcginnis | In the training I did in Paris, that's kind of how we did it. After playing with legos. | 20:55 |
| smcginnis | Each person picked out a bug to work on, then we worked through what to do for it. | 20:55 |
| smcginnis | Most were not able to be done in the training, but it was a start. | 20:55 |
| ildikov | if we can go through the steps on how to do it with an easy example I think that would help | 20:56 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 20:56 |
| ildikov | and then people can work on project specific items during the second half of the training | 20:57 |
| spotz | We can always make a project with some bugs in it and fix them at the least in sandbox | 20:57 |
| ildikov | spotz: +1 | 20:57 |
| smcginnis | Easier contrived examples may fit well with the timeframe. | 20:57 |
| ildikov | we also had a few exercises that are useful for dealing with code | 20:57 |
| ildikov | like teach them how to run the tests, add a new LOG entry and find it in the log files, apply a change and get the service to pick it up, etc. | 20:58 |
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| diablo_rojo | ildikov, +1 | 20:59 |
| ildikov | not all of these are for beginners, but that's just about how we structure the training | 20:59 |
| ildikov | ok | 20:59 |
| ildikov | so we need exercises and quiz questions for the blocks! | 20:59 |
| ildikov | and we will need to move this discussion back to the project channel as the hour is over | 21:00 |
| vkmc | +1 | 21:00 |
| ildikov | see you all in #openstack-upstream-institute :) | 21:00 |
| ildikov | thanks! | 21:00 |
| ildikov | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 9 21:00:55 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_upstream_institute/2018/openstack_upstream_institute.2018-04-09-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_upstream_institute/2018/openstack_upstream_institute.2018-04-09-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_upstream_institute/2018/openstack_upstream_institute.2018-04-09-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
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| diablo_rojo | Thank you! | 21:01 |
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