Wednesday, 2020-09-23

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ttx#startmeeting large_scale_sig08:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 08:00:19 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'large_scale_sig'08:00
ttx#topic Rollcall08:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:00
ttxWho is here for the Large Scale SIG meeting ?08:00
mdelavergneHi08:00
ttxmdelavergne: hi!08:00
ttxpinging amorin08:01
amorinhello!08:01
amorinthank for the ping, completely forgot :(08:01
ttxbelmoreira seems offline08:02
ttxmasahito might be around08:03
ttxWhile we wait and are between French people -- I had a nice chat with the ops at Societe generale yesterday. They are in the first stages of scaling (think 100->1000 and are a bit in the unknown, which reinforces the need for documenting what to expect when scaling up/out08:04
ttxI told then as they transition to 100->1000 they will likely hit the need to scale out at some point08:05
ttxthem*08:05
mdelavergneNice!08:05
ttxBut it's unclear what to watch for, and what will fail first08:05
mdelavergneThey might have some surprises :(08:06
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ttx(they are already sharding RabbitMQ a bit so I expect that won't be the first thing)08:06
ttxmasahito: hi!08:06
ttxalright, let's get started08:06
ttxOur agenda for today is at:08:06
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-meeting08:06
ttx#topic Meaningful monitoring08:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Meaningful monitoring (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:07
masahitohi! sorry at late. We're hitting a rabbit mq down right now :-(08:07
ttxTwo weeks ago we had our second EU-US meeting, and we actually had new participants joining!08:07
ttxmasahito: we can catch up later, you should focus on the urgent things :)08:07
ttxOne of the things the newcomers were interested in pushing was the idea of "meaningful monitoring"08:08
ttxwhich I think could be a third workstream for the group08:08
ttxas it's a pretty common challenge across large scale deployments08:08
ttxand also matches the "how do you do metrics/billing in your deployment" question08:08
ttxThoughts on that?08:09
ttxIs that something interesting to work on, or is it basically a solved problem?08:10
mdelavergneIt's definitely a good point, but where is it possible to begin on tackling this problem?08:11
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ttxI'd start by defining the need, and discuss whether the current tooling available is covering it or not08:12
belmoreirasorry for joining late08:12
mdelavergnehi!08:12
ttxAlso collecting stories08:12
ttxbelmoreira: hi!08:12
ttxWe were discussing "meaningful monitoring" as a potential new workstream for the group08:13
ttxThe new US participants (James Penick and Erik from Blizzard) were interested in that08:13
ttxbelmoreira: does that sound like a valuable thing for the group to explore?08:14
belmoreira+1 from me. With all the work with oslo metrics looks a good next step08:14
ttxOK I'll start documenting that and come up with a plan we can bootstrap from the US+EU side of the meeting08:14
belmoreirathere was any discussion regarding notifications?08:15
ttx#action ttx to draft a plan to tackle "meaningful monitoring" as a new SIG workstream08:15
ttxbelmoreira: no, but I'd say that's part of "meaningful"08:15
ttxlike... "actionable monitoring"08:15
belmoreirathere are projects and produce a lot of notifications but no easy/interesting way to get "meaningful" from them08:16
belmoreiras/and/that08:16
ttxack08:16
ttxI think that's what they meant. There is data being produced, but it's difficult to derive operational status from it08:17
ttxmoving on to our other workstreams...08:18
ttx#topic Progress on "Documenting large scale operations" goal08:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Progress on "Documenting large scale operations" goal (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:18
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-documentation08:18
ttxOn the OSops side, the repository was just created:08:18
ttx#link https://opendev.org/openstack/osops08:18
ttxIt's managed under the "Ops Docs and Tooling" SIG, which is obviously closely related to ours08:18
ttxbut probably a better host for tools that are not specific for large scale08:19
ttxamorin: you should reach out to smcginnis (or the SIG) to see where you could propose OSarchiver08:19
ttxPersonally I'd say it should have its own directory under tools/ as it is something you intend to maintain...08:19
belmoreiraI think this is a great initiative and for me this should be the "transition" path for the projects adopt/integrate this tools in the projects08:20
belmoreirathis shows that ops still need something that the projects don't offer08:21
ttxok, I think we lost amorin, but he will pick up the message later I expect08:21
ttxThe other open task on that workstream is to collect more metrics/billing stories.08:21
ttxA task we could just move to the new "Meaningful monitoring" workstream, as part of the "current status" collection08:21
ttxNothing new has been contributed there, so I will push back the action there08:22
ttx#action all to describe briefly how you solved metrics/billing in your deployment in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-documentation08:22
ttxAnything else on that topic?08:22
ttx#topic Progress on "Scaling within one cluster" goal08:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Progress on "Scaling within one cluster" goal (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:23
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-cluster-scaling08:23
ttxThe work on middleware ping has landed, so we are left with oslo.metrics work...08:23
ttxI did push a basic test framework for oslo.metrics at08:23
ttx#link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/752262/08:23
ttxI'll continue by trying to add meaningful tests08:24
ttx(but need to dive deeper into the code first)08:24
ttxmasahito: any progress on posting your latest changes ?08:24
ttxamorin: did you discuss testing it internally at OVH?08:24
masahitosorry.... nothing now.08:24
ttxThat's ok, I'll just push back the action item08:25
amorinttx yes08:25
ttx#action masahito to push latest patches to oslo.metrics08:25
amorinI talked about it08:25
amorinwe did not yet tested it08:25
amorinbut we are considering doing it08:25
ttxok, great! Keep us posted08:25
amorinyup08:25
ttxOur second subtopic is around scaling stories on:08:25
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scaling-stories08:25
ttxNothing new posted there... our next action is the forum session at the summit in a month.08:26
ttxAnything else on this topic?08:26
belmoreiraI can contribute for the forum session08:26
belmoreiraif there is space08:26
ttxbelmoreira: theer is! The goal will be to create a lively conversation space to encourage others to share their own journey scaling up/out08:27
ttxSo it's good to have 2-3 people signed up to bootstrap the discussion08:27
belmoreiragreat, a good topic would be moving from cells to regions because scalability issues08:27
ttxWe have James Penick (or someone from his team) + Arnaud that have volunteered to help too08:27
amorinbelmoreira: nice topic indeed!08:28
amorinvery curious about that08:28
amorinis it because of neutron?08:28
belmoreiraamorin of course :)08:28
ttxMaybe we can organize the discussion along different stages. Like "first thing that fails as you add more nodes" (scaling up woes), then moving from cells to regions (scaling out woes)08:29
belmoreirattx yes, that makes sense08:30
ttxI'm personally very interested in gettign an order of magnitude of number of nodes/activity for a single cluster, as it's the top question I'm being asked by new companies starting to scale up their deployments08:30
ttxlike "what should we expect? What should we watch?"08:31
amorinwe have input at OVH about that08:31
ttxAnd I'm always like... "well, somewhere between 100 and 1000 physical servers, something will fail and force you to scale out"08:31
ttxwhich is not super-helpful :)08:31
ttxalso I'm not even sure that 100-1000 range is current in Ussuri08:32
amorinthere are plenty of differents things that could break08:32
amorinand it depends also on what kind of usage you are doing with openstack08:32
amorinthat's why it's hard to answer I think08:32
ttxamorin: right, type of activity will change the numbers completely08:33
belmoreiraand the risk that you are willing to take08:33
ttxAlso it's normal that "plenty of things can fail", since if there was only one thing, we would have handled that low hanging fruit already08:33
amorinyup08:34
ttxbut still having guidance would be super helpful for the ops at that stage of their openstack life08:34
ttxit can be fuzzy08:34
ttxbut just knowing that others have goine through that and survived... is good08:34
ttx#topic PTG/Summit plans update08:35
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG/Summit plans update (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:35
ttxSo I did file a Forum session on scaling stories, which was just accepted/scheduled08:35
* ttx checks when08:36
ttxhttps://www.openstack.org/summit/2020/summit-schedule/events/24746/share-your-openstack-scaling-story08:36
ttxTuesday, October 20, 7:30am-8:15am CT (2:30pm - 3:15pm UTC)08:36
amoringreat08:36
ttxhmm not CT, PT08:37
belmoreirafriendly time slot08:37
ttx#info Forum session Tuesday, October 20, 7:30am-8:15am PT (2:30pm - 3:15pm UTC)08:37
ttxyes, it's good for us08:37
ttxLet me start an etherpad about it08:38
ttx#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/w-forum-scaling-stories08:38
ttxI dumped the base themes, feel free to add to that08:41
ttxwe only have 45 minutes so I would keep it to 4-5 questions max08:41
amorinack08:42
belmoreira+108:43
ttxAlright let's refine that doc between now and the event08:43
ttxOtherwise for PTG week we will have two one-hour sessions:08:43
ttx#info PTG meeting Wednesday Oct 28 7UTC-8UTC and 16UTC-17UTC08:44
ttxI suspect those will be approved but will let you know when I know more08:44
ttxThe idea will be to encourage people from the Forum session to follow up at the PTG hours08:44
ttx(and then to sign them up to join the SIG meeting)08:44
ttxWe'll likely use both to introduce the various SIG workstreams and ask for input/help08:45
ttx(both PTG hours)08:45
ttxAny question on that08:45
ttx?08:45
ttxok then08:46
ttx#topic Next meeting08:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)"08:46
ttxNext meeting will be US-EU-friendly on Oct 7, 16utc.08:46
ttxThen we'll have summit and PTG weeks, and then go back to our regular cadence in November.08:46
ttx#info next meeting: Oct 7, 16:00UTC08:47
ttxAnything else before we close?08:47
ttxAlright! Thanks everyone!08:48
ttx#endmeeting08:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"08:48
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 08:48:16 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:48
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2020/large_scale_sig.2020-09-23-08.00.html08:48
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2020/large_scale_sig.2020-09-23-08.00.txt08:48
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2020/large_scale_sig.2020-09-23-08.00.log.html08:48
mdelavergneThanks, see you08:48
amorinthanks08:48
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slaweq#startmeeting neutron_ci15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 15:00:14 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'15:00
ralonsohhi15:00
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lajoskatonaHi15:01
bcafarelo/15:01
slaweqok, I think we can start15:01
slaweqGrafana dashboard: http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate15:01
slaweqPlease open now :)15:01
slaweq#topic Actions from previous meetings15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from previous meetings (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:02
slaweq    ralonsoh to check timing out neutron-ovn-tempest-full-multinode-ovs-master jobs - bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/188680715:02
openstackslaweq: Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1886807 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886807). The error has been logged15:02
ralonsohslaweq, sorry, I didn't start this task15:03
slaweqralonsoh: np15:03
slaweqshould I assign this one to You for next week?15:03
ralonsohyes15:03
bcafarelprobably the bot complaining launchpad is slooow15:03
slaweq#action ralonsoh to check timing out neutron-ovn-tempest-full-multinode-ovs-master jobs - bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/188680715:04
openstackslaweq: Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1886807 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886807). The error has been logged15:04
slaweqthx ralonsoh15:04
slaweqok, next one15:04
slaweq    ralonsoh to check issue with pep8 failures like https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/6c8fbf9b97b44139bf1d70b9c85455bb15:04
ralonsohyes, I pushed a patch for this one15:04
ralonsohand Oleg another one on top of mine15:05
ralonsohlet me check15:05
ralonsohhttps://review.opendev.org/#/c/748594/15:05
ralonsohhttps://review.opendev.org/#/c/749320/15:05
ralonsohNo more issues reported15:05
slaweqthx ralonsoh :)15:06
slaweqok, and the last one from last week15:06
slaweqbcafarel to check failing periodic fedora job15:06
* bcafarel looks for links15:06
bcafarelshort version fedora jobs are broken on f31, infra aims to switch to 3215:07
slaweqbcafarel: and on 32 it works, right?15:07
slaweqif yes, I'm ok with that15:07
bcafarelwith https://review.opendev.org/#/c/750292 as depends-on that job works15:08
toskyf31 is out of support in ~2 months anyway15:08
toskyone month after the release of f3315:08
slaweqbcafarel++ ok, thx for checking15:08
bcafarelbut the devstack fedora job fails in linked review on neutron-dhcp-agent issues (quite a few "no such file or directory" on pid and conf files...)15:08
slaweqouch15:10
slaweqhttps://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/d7d455eadaac4f5081fca5dd7197b6ea/log/controller/logs/screen-q-dhcp.txt?severity=415:10
slaweqit can be something with python 3.8 maybe15:10
slaweqas f32 is using that version of python already15:10
slaweqhmm, ubuntu focal also uses python 3.815:11
bcafarelfocal is on 3.8 too (just checked)15:12
slaweqand we have there errors like https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/af52abc771a541548d8e528af79a524d/log/controller/logs/screen-q-dhcp.txt?severity=415:12
slaweqbut job passed15:12
slaweqanyone wants to report bug and investigate that?15:12
ralonsohmaybe next week15:12
slaweqok, so I will report a bug and we will see next week15:13
slaweqit's not critical for us I think15:13
slaweqbut worth to have it tracked15:13
slaweq#action slaweq to report bug with neutron-dhcp-agent and Fedora 3215:13
ralonsohTBH, this should not be logged as an error15:13
slaweqralonsoh: so maybe that's redherring15:14
ralonsohwe are just checking if the interface exists and has MAC15:14
ralonsohcould be, yes15:14
lajoskatonaThan perhaps warning should be enough?15:15
slaweqor even debug15:15
ralonsohinfo15:15
ralonsohwe return false15:15
ralonsohnot an exception15:15
ralonsohwe should inform about this15:15
ralonsohthat could be used in an active wait, waiting for the interface to be ready15:15
lajoskatonaI run a quick search on logstash and as I see it happens quite often, but the jobs are passing15:16
slaweqok, but still there are failed tests on that job15:16
slaweqand we have to check why so many tests are failing due to ssh issue15:16
slaweqI will report this bug and we will see15:17
bcafarelcould it be similar to failing tests we see in focal?15:17
slaweqralonsoh: if You have time please report a bug for this logging thing15:17
ralonsohsure15:17
slaweqbcafarel: nah, that's other tests15:17
slaweqso I don't think it's the same thing really15:17
bcafarelit would have been too easy to have one single root cause :(15:18
slaweqbcafarel: exactly15:18
slaweqok, I think we can move on now15:18
slaweq#topic Switch to Ubuntu Focal15:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Switch to Ubuntu Focal (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:18
slaweqEtherpad: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/neutron-victoria-switch_to_focal15:19
slaweqI updated it a bit today15:19
slaweqI know that gmann is going to pull the trigger and switch all devstack based jobs to focal today15:19
slaweqso we may have problems with some jobs and in such case we should propose patch(es) to switch unstable jobs to bionic temporary15:20
slaweqand then focus on debugging those issues15:20
gmannyeah these are on gate now  https://review.opendev.org/#/c/731207/  https://review.opendev.org/#/c/734700/15:20
slaweqfor unstable neutron-tempest-plugin scenario jobs I proposed today https://review.opendev.org/#/c/753552/15:21
slaweqhopefully it will help15:21
slaweqbut lets see15:21
bcafarelif https://review.opendev.org/#/c/738163/ passes fine on top of it it will be nice15:22
bcafarelsorry https://review.opendev.org/#/c/74836715:22
bcafarel(too many tabs with "Focal" in it...)15:23
slaweqthx bcafarel for taking care of it15:23
slaweqany other updates regarding this topic?15:23
bcafareldid the review-priority patches get merged? after the jobs are switched it may be a bit longer to merge stuff15:24
slaweqbcafarel: which review-priority patches?15:25
bcafarelhttps://review.opendev.org/746347 / https://review.opendev.org/74777415:25
bcafarelhopefully we can get them in with all the focal switch + ovs hash issue15:26
lajoskatonano they are failing with the ovs build issue :-(15:26
slaweqyep, both failed on ovn jobs :/15:27
slaweqok, I think we can move on15:27
slaweq#topic Stadium projects15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Stadium projects (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:27
slaweqanything new regarding ci of stadium projects?15:27
lajoskatonanothing from my side15:28
slaweqok, thx lajoskatona15:29
slaweqso lets move on15:29
slaweq#topic Stable branches15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Stable branches (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:29
slaweqanything here? bcafarel?15:29
bcafarelwe may see some activity on not spotted focal issues there, but so far so good15:29
bcafarel(late answer for stadium projects)15:29
bcafarelfor stable, a few rechecks here and there needed, but backports got in nicely in last week (up to queens)15:30
ralonsohbcafarel, hmmmmm15:31
ralonsohhttps://review.opendev.org/#/c/752387/15:31
ralonsohstill waiting!!15:31
ralonsohok, sorry, the OVN CI jobs15:31
slaweq:)15:32
slaweqok, so lets move on15:32
bcafarelah ussuri yep it probably is broken now15:32
slaweq#topic Grafana15:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Grafana (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"15:32
slaweq#link http://grafana.openstack.org/d/Hj5IHcSmz/neutron-failure-rate?orgId=115:33
slaweqwhat worries me is neutron-functional-with-uwsgi job which is failing pretty often recently15:34
slaweqbut when I was checking some jobs' results today, it was mostly some ovs or db timeouts15:34
ralonsohagree with this15:34
slaweqso looked for me that this may be just overloaded infra maybe15:35
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slaweqso unless You have some specific example of issues to investigate there, I would say to wait few more days and see how it will be15:35
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slaweqand that is basically all from my side for today15:37
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slaweqdo You have anything else You want to discuss today?15:38
ralonsohno thanks15:38
slaweqif not I will give You 20 minutes back :)15:38
slaweqok, so thx for attending the meeting15:39
slaweqand see You online :)15:39
slaweqo/15:39
bcafarelo/ and let's see how focal goes15:39
lajoskatonaBye15:39
slaweq#endmeeting15:39
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"15:39
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 15:39:19 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:39
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2020/neutron_ci.2020-09-23-15.00.html15:39
ralonsohbye15:39
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2020/neutron_ci.2020-09-23-15.00.txt15:39
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