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| ttx | #startmeeting large_scale_sig | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 27 15:00:12 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'large_scale_sig' | 15:00 |
| ttx | #topic Rollcall | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:00 | |
| ttx | Who is here for the Large Scale SIG meeting ? | 15:00 |
| ttx | belmoreira: hi! | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | hi ttx | 15:00 |
| genekuo | hi | 15:00 |
| ttx | Hi genekuo ! | 15:00 |
| ttx | pinging amorin mdelavergne | 15:01 |
| ttx | and anyone else interested | 15:01 |
| mdelavergne | hi o/ | 15:01 |
| ttx | jpward: maybe | 15:01 |
| ttx | alright let's get started | 15:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 15:02 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-meeting | 15:02 |
| ttx | First, let's review progress and blockers on each of the stages of the Scaling journey | 15:02 |
| ttx | #topic Stage 1 - Configure | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stage 1 - Configure (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/Configure | 15:02 |
| ttx | I was counting on amorin for an update, but we can push back to next meeting | 15:03 |
| amorin | hello! | 15:03 |
| ttx | ah! | 15:03 |
| amorin | sorry I am late | 15:03 |
| ttx | I see you added a few bits to that page | 15:03 |
| amorin | yes I did! | 15:03 |
| ttx | Anything we can help you with? Any blocker? | 15:03 |
| amorin | based on a discussion we had few month ago on the mailing list | 15:03 |
| amorin | and based on what we did at OVH | 15:04 |
| amorin | I initiated the documentation about how to configure rabbit | 15:04 |
| amorin | at least in a cluster way | 15:04 |
| amorin | I tried to explain things based on my experience and what we do, that's far from beeing perfect IMO | 15:04 |
| ttx | Given the event-less nature of 2021, I'd say that starting threads on the mailing-list is probably a good way to extract knowledge and derive best practices | 15:04 |
| amorin | anyway, feel free to comment and update the part that sounds weird or not good | 15:04 |
| ttx | Like asking a specific question | 15:05 |
| amorin | yes | 15:05 |
| belmoreira | great, thanks | 15:05 |
| ttx | and then compile the answer | 15:05 |
| amorin | I was very happy with the thread on rabbit | 15:05 |
| ttx | so whenever you have doubts or when you want to gut-check some response, I'd recommend you raise a new thread | 15:05 |
| amorin | so I wanted to write that down to avoid losing it in internet archives | 15:05 |
| ttx | Sometimes it just won't catch on, but sometimes it will | 15:06 |
| ttx | it's like throwing fishing lines | 15:06 |
| ttx | perseverance is key | 15:06 |
| ttx | OK, anything else on that topic? | 15:07 |
| amorin | nop | 15:07 |
| ttx | #topic Stage 2 - Monitor (genekuo) | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stage 2 - Monitor (genekuo) (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:07 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/Monitor | 15:07 |
| genekuo | haven't got time to update it | 15:07 |
| ttx | genekuo: There was some progress on the oslo.metrics front | 15:07 |
| genekuo | yeah, I was pushing the patches | 15:08 |
| ttx | we are lacking reviewers, but at this stage in development it's probably normal (not a lot of users yet) | 15:08 |
| ttx | so I think single core +2A is probably good enmough at this pre-1.0 stage | 15:08 |
| genekuo | I think it's ok, I've got some plenty of work to do on functional test at oslo.messaging part | 15:08 |
| ttx | which is why I ended up approving what we had | 15:08 |
| ttx | yeah, reviewers there will be a lot more cautious | 15:08 |
| ttx | The goal here is still to get to something in the Wallaby release | 15:09 |
| genekuo | we don't have that part internally yet so I'll have to work from scratch | 15:09 |
| ttx | I think it's good to have anyway, making sure we don;t break it with further code changes | 15:09 |
| genekuo | yeah | 15:09 |
| ttx | OK, anything else on that stage? | 15:10 |
| genekuo | nope, we have a project internally working on some monitoring stuff | 15:10 |
| genekuo | We will have people contributing to the docs once we have progress on it | 15:10 |
| ttx | ok | 15:10 |
| ttx | #topic Stage 3 - Scale Up (ttx) | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stage 3 - Scale Up (ttx) (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:10 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleUp | 15:10 |
| ttx | Not much progress to report, still looking for someone with experience of that stage to help drive | 15:11 |
| belmoreira | I can help | 15:11 |
| ttx | I might pick up the efforts to upstream OSarchiver since our last try (make it part of OSops) was a bit stalled | 15:11 |
| amorin | scale up is adding more computes to a region, right? | 15:11 |
| ttx | yes, until it breaks | 15:12 |
| amorin | ok | 15:12 |
| ttx | belmoreira: you already lead the last two stages :) | 15:12 |
| belmoreira | this is also related to the work that amorin is doing with configuration | 15:12 |
| ttx | everything is related (and overlapping) | 15:12 |
| belmoreira | ttx I have been there :) with things breaking when scaling up | 15:13 |
| ttx | #action ttx to revive the OSarchiver upstreaming effort | 15:13 |
| amorin | Maybe we can ask on the mailing list how many computes the users are running? | 15:13 |
| amorin | and try to start a discussion on how they managed to get there | 15:13 |
| ttx | yeah, some kind of a poll... good idea | 15:13 |
| amorin | if we have huge numbers | 15:13 |
| ttx | would be god to capture the general guideline that people use | 15:14 |
| amorin | yup | 15:14 |
| ttx | OK I'll do that | 15:14 |
| mdelavergne | I'd like to say I had to tackle scaling up, but my experience was breaking at around 10 at first, and around 50, so I don't think we can call it "scaling" :D | 15:14 |
| amorin | :) | 15:14 |
| belmoreira | lol | 15:14 |
| amorin | belmoreira I think you were having huge number of computes in CERN, right? | 15:14 |
| amorin | like 4k for a region, no? | 15:15 |
| belmoreira | amarin, yes, but we use cells | 15:15 |
| amorin | cheating :) | 15:15 |
| belmoreira | but Neutron keeps the 4k load | 15:15 |
| mdelavergne | is it cheating if it works? | 15:15 |
| ttx | So I'll start a thread, and you can all contribute a short answer, that should bring some interest to that thread and encourage others to chime in | 15:15 |
| amorin | using vxlan? | 15:15 |
| amorin | ttx, ok | 15:15 |
| belmoreira | amorin linux bridge | 15:16 |
| ttx | #action ttx to start a "how many compute nodes in your typical cluster" discussion on the ML | 15:16 |
| belmoreira | amorin cheating again? :) | 15:16 |
| amorin | lol :) | 15:16 |
| ttx | even if the numbers are all over the map that's interesting data | 15:16 |
| ttx | the user survey does not really give that "per cluster" granularity | 15:17 |
| belmoreira | yes, I guess we will have all flavors | 15:17 |
| ttx | ok, great idea | 15:17 |
| ttx | anything else on that stage? | 15:17 |
| genekuo | nope | 15:17 |
| ttx | #topic Stage 4/5 - Scale Out, upgrade & maintain (belmoreira) | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stage 4/5 - Scale Out, upgrade & maintain (belmoreira) (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:17 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleOut | 15:17 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/UpgradeAndMaintain | 15:17 |
| belmoreira | I was working on it | 15:17 |
| belmoreira | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IKH6odpQ5vjTcBG1P_-MQbAClRD9orgyeMyTQ2P7de0/edit?usp=sharing | 15:18 |
| ttx | perfect | 15:18 |
| ttx | wow that's great | 15:18 |
| belmoreira | I'm using a google doc for my initial draft | 15:18 |
| belmoreira | let me know if this is what's expected | 15:18 |
| ttx | feel free to drop it in the wiki early, it's ok if it's not perfect or final | 15:18 |
| ttx | At first glance it strikes the right tone | 15:19 |
| genekuo | cool I'll take a look of it | 15:19 |
| belmoreira | will do it after the meeting, I was just waiting for your review first | 15:19 |
| ttx | maybe we can all review it and discuss it next meeting? | 15:19 |
| ttx | or we quickly read it | 15:19 |
| ttx | short enough | 15:19 |
| belmoreira | sounds good for me either way. | 15:20 |
| belmoreira | it's still WIP | 15:20 |
| ttx | the first question could be moved to the ScaleUp stage, since it's about when to move to the next stage | 15:20 |
| ttx | (when scaling up is not longer enough) | 15:20 |
| ttx | no* | 15:20 |
| amorin | sounds great | 15:21 |
| mdelavergne | maybe there should be a link to region and cells doc? but overall it's really great | 15:21 |
| belmoreira | mdelavergne good point | 15:21 |
| belmoreira | I will try to come up with other questions | 15:22 |
| belmoreira | let me know if you have any that can be added | 15:22 |
| ttx | #action belmoreira to post first draft of the ScaleOut FAQ | 15:22 |
| ttx | Alright, anything else on those late stages? | 15:23 |
| ttx | moving on then | 15:23 |
| ttx | #topic Our next "share your scaling story" event | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Our next "share your scaling story" event (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:23 | |
| belmoreira | not in the upgrades, I hope to have something similar for the next meeting | 15:23 |
| ttx | +1 | 15:24 |
| ttx | As we discussed over the past months, we should try to regularly organize events where operators can share their scaling story experience | 15:24 |
| ttx | This primarily serves as an information gathering / consensus building exercise to help us document the Scaling Journey | 15:24 |
| ttx | But also doubles as a potential recruitment platform | 15:24 |
| ttx | It looks more and more like 2021 will be mostly virtual again | 15:24 |
| ttx | I'm keeping an eye on Open Infrastructure Foundation's own events, so that we can leverage those | 15:24 |
| ttx | But the 2021 plan is not final for those yet | 15:24 |
| ttx | Is there any other event we could piggyback on in the near future? | 15:25 |
| ttx | If nothing gets organized that works for us, I was thinking we could organize our own thing on Zoom, like around March | 15:25 |
| belmoreira | I was thinking about this... | 15:25 |
| genekuo | I'm ok with it | 15:25 |
| ttx | but maybe for now we should wait to see when the OIF events will land | 15:25 |
| belmoreira | and I'm stealing this idea from the baremetal SIG | 15:26 |
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| ttx | there is no reason it has to be in an established event... that just helps in visibility | 15:26 |
| belmoreira | instead having a "big" event, how about we have a small presentation (user story, configuration experience, ...) every SIG meeting? | 15:27 |
| belmoreira | just a 10 min presentation that would set the pace for the meeting | 15:27 |
| ttx | you mean during the IRC meeting? | 15:27 |
| belmoreira | if we have interesting user stories it probably will catch the eye of several people that are interested in the subject | 15:27 |
| belmoreira | yes | 15:27 |
| belmoreira | and no | 15:28 |
| amorin | do you think we can find enough people willing to do that every 15days? | 15:28 |
| belmoreira | we use the slot to have presentations over zoom | 15:28 |
| genekuo | 15 days probably hard | 15:28 |
| genekuo | I think at least a month will be better | 15:28 |
| belmoreira | I think so... it's only a 10 min presentation, so very little preparation is required | 15:28 |
| belmoreira | also it's informal | 15:28 |
| ttx | Yes in my experience it's been hard to get people to share things, so committing to a schedule with things every two weeks might be a bit much | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | maybe it won't work every meeting... but having this kind of presentations it may increase the interest in the SIG | 15:29 |
| ttx | true. | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | instead a "big" isolated event | 15:29 |
| ttx | the "big" event would probably just be a 90-min zoom call, but I see what you mean | 15:30 |
| ttx | trying to see how we can organize that, and handle te Zoom/IRC transition bit | 15:30 |
| belmoreira | we can find the initial volunteers inside the SIG :) and announce this events/discussion in the ML | 15:30 |
| genekuo | Can Foundation help with announcing events on social media? | 15:31 |
| amorin | you will show us the path :) | 15:31 |
| ttx | and maybe post the smallish presentations part onto the OIF Youtube channel | 15:31 |
| ttx | genekuo: sure | 15:31 |
| belmoreira | ttx yes, it would be easy to record those sessions | 15:32 |
| ttx | belmoreira: so we would move the meeting to Slack completely, or just the presentation part? | 15:32 |
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| ttx | err. Zoom | 15:32 |
| ttx | not Slack | 15:33 |
| reedip | 0/ | 15:33 |
| genekuo | Hi reedip | 15:33 |
| ttx | reedip: o/ | 15:33 |
| *** yamamoto has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
| reedip | Hi @genekuo | 15:33 |
| reedip | Hi ttx | 15:33 |
| belmoreira | ttx I don't have a strong opinion, but if it's presentation meeting probably we do all the discussion there and if there are other topics to discuss we may move to IRC? or just stop recording | 15:33 |
| ttx | i think the simplest is to discuss each meeting if we have content for a "presentation meeting" in two weeks, and if we do, switch the whole meeting to zoom | 15:34 |
| ttx | 2 weeks is plenty enough to promote it | 15:35 |
| genekuo | I think we can start the presentation first, once it ends, we probably still have time for other discussion then we can move to irc | 15:35 |
| genekuo | ttx ideas sounds good | 15:35 |
| ttx | I'm afraid that would create friction and we'd lose everyone | 15:35 |
| ttx | (switchign to IRC mid-meeting) | 15:35 |
| belmoreira | I agree with ttx | 15:36 |
| ttx | I guess that leads us to next topic | 15:36 |
| ttx | #topic Next meeting | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:36 | |
| ttx | Our next meeting is in two weeks, February 10 | 15:36 |
| ttx | Do we have someone interested in doing a 5-10 minute presentation? | 15:36 |
| mdelavergne | I vote for no presentations next meeting, but it's only selfish because I won't be able to attend next meeting | 15:36 |
| ttx | or shoudl we do IRC | 15:37 |
| ttx | lol | 15:37 |
| genekuo | lol | 15:37 |
| belmoreira | so, inside the group, if we can think what we can present (10 min) and discuss/schedule next meeting it would be great | 15:37 |
| mdelavergne | but I'm affraid if we wait we will never begin presentations, so I don't know | 15:37 |
| genekuo | I couldn't present next meeting because I've already had a presentation planned for local community next month | 15:38 |
| ttx | OK, let's keep the next mneetign on IRC, but gather presentations idea so that we can schedule a Zoom meeting for end of February | 15:38 |
| amorin | ack | 15:38 |
| belmoreira | great | 15:38 |
| genekuo | ok | 15:38 |
| reedip | ack | 15:38 |
| mdelavergne | yep | 15:38 |
| ttx | #action all to think about 5-10min presentations to use in a video version of our SIG meeting | 15:39 |
| ttx | #info next meeting: Feb 10 on IRC usual time | 15:39 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone? | 15:39 |
| reedip | I do have a question for the team ... How or what factors do we monitor to justify a clusterr health? | 15:40 |
| belmoreira | cluster being? | 15:40 |
| ttx | I'd generally answer... latency, traffic, errors, saturation | 15:40 |
| ttx | but that's a very general SRE answer | 15:41 |
| reedip | Lets say a part of a DC or a section of rack | 15:41 |
| amorin | so cluster is made of servers ? | 15:41 |
| amorin | not a rabbit cluster, or db cluster? | 15:41 |
| ttx | no it's made OF PEOPLE | 15:41 |
| reedip | Nah, not the rabbit/db | 15:41 |
| reedip | But an OpenStack cluster, sorry for not being explicit in my query | 15:42 |
| belmoreira | ttx :) | 15:42 |
| mdelavergne | "soylent cluster" | 15:42 |
| reedip | Lol :D | 15:42 |
| amorin | you can monitor API response time, error rates in logs, messages in queues | 15:43 |
| amorin | stuff like that | 15:43 |
| belmoreira | for compute nodes we measure CPU utilisation, network traffic, steal time... | 15:43 |
| amorin | number of ports in 'build | 15:43 |
| amorin | number of hypevisors online | 15:43 |
| amorin | number of instances ending in error | 15:44 |
| reedip | Though being generic, maybe if we don't have a proper differentiation, do we intend to make a list of these, for large scale systems ( kind of like a generalistic table for systems to consider, to monitor?) | 15:44 |
| reedip | I mean, is there a plan/scope for this in LargeScale SIG? | 15:44 |
| genekuo | These stuff should be added in this page https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/Monitor | 15:45 |
| ttx | yes! | 15:46 |
| reedip | Ok, so there is a scope for it .. | 15:46 |
| reedip | Thnx genekuo | 15:46 |
| reedip | Thnx amorix, tax, belmoreira :) | 15:46 |
| ttx | alright, if nothing else, we can close for today | 15:46 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 15:47 |
| genekuo | thanks! | 15:47 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 27 15:47:33 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-01-27-15.00.html | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-01-27-15.00.txt | 15:47 |
| mdelavergne | thanks! | 15:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-01-27-15.00.log.html | 15:47 |
| mdelavergne | see you | 15:47 |
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| amorin | bye | 15:48 |
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