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| leducflorian | Hi | 14:30 |
|---|---|---|
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| ttx | #startmeeting large_scale_sig | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 10 15:00:01 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'large_scale_sig' | 15:00 |
| ttx | #topic Rollcall | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:00 | |
| ttx | Who is here for the Large Scale SIG meeting ? | 15:00 |
| alistarle | o/ | 15:00 |
| ttx | pinging regulars: amorin belmoreira | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | thanks ttx | 15:00 |
| amorin | hello! | 15:00 |
| amorin | thanks | 15:00 |
| alistarle | @alistarle @leducflorian and @loan from Société Générale | 15:01 |
| Loan | o/ | 15:01 |
| amorin | welcome guys :P | 15:01 |
| ttx | Pretty sure genekuo will not be joining us as it's Chinese New Year | 15:01 |
| ttx | We could almost do the meeting in French | 15:01 |
| amorin | :) | 15:01 |
| belmoreira | :) don't make fun of me | 15:01 |
| leducflorian | Hello guys | 15:02 |
| ttx | belmoreira: I suspect your french is better than my English | 15:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 15:02 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/large-scale-sig-meeting | 15:02 |
| *** Loan is now known as loan | 15:02 | |
| ttx | First let's quickly review our action items from last meeting... | 15:02 |
| belmoreira | ttx I won't bet on it | 15:02 |
| ttx | #topic Action items review | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items review (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:02 | |
| ttx | - ttx to revive the OSarchiver upstreaming effort | 15:02 |
| ttx | Discussed at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/020116.html | 15:03 |
| ttx | I'm going to gauge interest from the OpenStack TC for option (3) vs. option (2) | 15:03 |
| reedip | `o/ | 15:03 |
| ttx | reedip: hi! | 15:03 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to contact OpenStack TC re: OSarchiver and see which option sounds best | 15:03 |
| ttx | - ttx to start a "how many compute nodes in your typical cluster" discussion on the ML | 15:03 |
| ttx | Done @ http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/020084.html | 15:03 |
| amorin | ttx ack | 15:04 |
| ttx | That triggered a lot of good insights, which I'll work on to summarize | 15:04 |
| amorin | very good indeed | 15:04 |
| ttx | #action ttx to summarize "how many compute nodes in your typical cluster" thread into the wiki | 15:04 |
| reedip | That's pretty concise ... | 15:04 |
| ttx | amorin: yes it did encourage me to start other such discussions on the ML | 15:04 |
| ttx | - belmoreira to post first draft of the ScaleOut FAQ | 15:04 |
| ttx | belmoreira: I saw some updates passing by? | 15:05 |
| belmoreira | yes, updated the scaling out and upgrades sections | 15:05 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleOut | 15:05 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/UpgradeAndMaintain | 15:05 |
| belmoreira | let me know if you have any comments | 15:05 |
| ttx | I only reviewed the first one, but it looks great | 15:05 |
| belmoreira | and if you have any other questions that we can add | 15:06 |
| ttx | Like good enough for us to point people asking questions to it now | 15:06 |
| ttx | - all to think about 5-10min presentations to use in a video version of our SIG meeting | 15:06 |
| ttx | Any idea on that yet? | 15:06 |
| belmoreira | I have few | 15:06 |
| belmoreira | for example: | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Regions vs Cells | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Inception - Run your OpenStack control plane on top of the infrastructure that it manages | 15:07 |
| ttx | (to summarize for newcomers, the idea was to once in a while do lightning talks in a video meeting version of this meeting, to touch a wider audience) | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Scaling out with Nova Cells | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | RabbitMQ clusters for large OpenStack Infrastructures | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Upgrades in a Large Scale infrastructure | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Fine-grained scheduling in a Large Scale infrastructure | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | OpenStack control plane DBs maintenance in a Large Scale infrastructure | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | How to scale Glance, Cinder and other core projects in a Large Scale infrastructure | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | Operations in a Large Scale infrastructure | 15:07 |
| belmoreira | AVZs with multiple Cells | 15:07 |
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| amorin | sounds like we have plenty of subjects for the next few month :) | 15:08 |
| ttx | That's a great list! I bet a lot of people would be interested in that. | 15:08 |
| amorin | we can do at OVH something about operations | 15:08 |
| ttx | We should rename the meeting "Fireside chat with Belmiro, tips from searching for the Higgs Boson" | 15:09 |
| belmoreira | this can be a 10 min presentation, to trigger discussion | 15:09 |
| amorin | we have mistral that is doing a self-healing of openstack | 15:09 |
| imtiazc | Those are great topic @belmoreira | 15:09 |
| belmoreira | ttx haha | 15:09 |
| ttx | OK, let's discuss at the end of the meeting when to schedule the first one, and which topic to pick | 15:09 |
| alistarle | Sure, I think few of them can interest us at SG | 15:09 |
| ttx | Back to the agenda... | 15:10 |
| belmoreira | please suggest also other topics, these are just few that we can talk about | 15:10 |
| imtiazc | Does operations of a large scale cover monitoring i.e getting logs and metrics | 15:10 |
| ttx | yes maybe I should create a wiki page or etherpad to collect topics | 15:10 |
| ttx | so that people can asynchronously propose those | 15:10 |
| belmoreira | imtiazc I was not thinking in monitoring. But definitely we should have a session about monit | 15:11 |
| reedip | That was something I asked in the last meeting as well | 15:12 |
| ttx | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/large-scale-sig-lightning-talks | 15:12 |
| reedip | For monitoring | 15:12 |
| ttx | belmoreira: please dump your list in there | 15:12 |
| belmoreira | sure | 15:12 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on to... | 15:13 |
| ttx | #topic Discussing Ceph in a future forum setting | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussing Ceph in a future forum setting (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:13 | |
| ttx | So we have several new folks joining today from Societe Generale | 15:13 |
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| ttx | They had questions around Ceph scaling, like: | 15:14 |
| ttx | - Single cluster vs. multiple smaller clusters ? | 15:14 |
| ttx | - Ceph cluster optimization (number of nodes, enabled features...) in a large scale cluster | 15:14 |
| ttx | - Performance optimization for SSD/HDD use cases | 15:14 |
| ttx | - Improve resilience through erasure coding implementation | 15:14 |
| ttx | We did not really discuss Ceph yet | 15:14 |
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| ttx | But I know CERN is running it extensively, so we should be able to tap into the group's experience running that as well | 15:15 |
| leducflorian | Thanks for the summarize ttx | 15:15 |
| ttx | Should we discuss those here today? Or schedule some Ceph-specific session in the near future and try to make some noise to get more people to show up? | 15:15 |
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| ttx | I guess it boils down to who feels comfortable talking about their Ceph scaling | 15:16 |
| belmoreira | at CERN, ceph is not managed by the Cloud team. We have a storage team that looks after all the storage solutions available in the Organization | 15:16 |
| ttx | Ah, ok, did not know that :) | 15:16 |
| imtiazc | Workday's CEPH deployment footprint is growing as well. So far, it is loosely integrated with OpenStack. | 15:16 |
| ttx | belmoreira: do you think some of them might be interested in sharing their experience there? | 15:16 |
| belmoreira | probably we should point first to the presentations that they already gave in OpenStack Summits and Ceph Days | 15:17 |
| ttx | I was thinking we could set up some specific Ceph/OpenStack session and try to get Ceph community people + operators versed in Ceph+OpenStack to discuss how they do things | 15:17 |
| belmoreira | let me find some references | 15:17 |
| ttx | since we probably don;t have critical mass of Ceph experience right here today | 15:18 |
| amorin | at OVH, we have a specific team for that as well | 15:18 |
| belmoreira | but maybe they will be open for a short presentation in one of our future sessions | 15:18 |
| alistarle | Yes it seems in large deployment the Ceph part is likely separated from the Openstack one | 15:18 |
| amorin | I can ask if one of the guys could join and talk about it | 15:18 |
| alistarle | Which seems to be a good idea actually | 15:19 |
| ttx | maybe in the mean time we can start a few threads on the mailing-list to start collecting solutions, but also names of people to involve in that specific session | 15:19 |
| leducflorian | today at Societe Generale the cloud team manage almost all the stack (except for cinder API + ISCSI over pure storage solutions). | 15:19 |
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| ttx | FWIW we are interested in facilitating integration, so I'm happy to have the OpenStack large scale SIG host a Ceph-oriented discussion | 15:20 |
| ttx | but if the teams are often separated, we'll likely need to do some prep work to get the right people | 15:21 |
| ttx | So my proposal would be: | 15:22 |
| ttx | 1- The SG people start a thread on a specific Ceph integration question they have on the OpenStack mailing-list, see if we get teh Ceph experts out of the woods and participating | 15:23 |
| imtiazc | There is another topic, not related to scaling, but is being discussed a lot: what operating system should we continue on? For those who have been using CentOS? | 15:23 |
| ttx | 2- Meanwhile, we plan to have in the near future a Ceph/OpenStack scaling session of the Large Scale SIG video meetings, and start gathering names of people to invite to that | 15:24 |
| alistarle | Does Large Scale SIG already have video meetings or it will be a exceptional session ? | 15:24 |
| ttx | We are just getting started with video meetings, and the first one should probably not be a Ceph specific one | 15:25 |
| imtiazc | I noticed that CERN is coming up with strategy. I would imagine all large scale operators will have to come up with a plan on how to update CentOS . Is there enough interest on this? | 15:25 |
| ttx | But... at the Foundation we are also working on a format for a short/recurring virtual event | 15:25 |
| loan | 3- Maybe it could be interesting to post a wiki about Ceph scaling (as the Large Scale SIG wiki that you created recently)? | 15:26 |
| ttx | so maybe we could also fit into that and get the Foundation promotion machine to help us assemble a crowd | 15:26 |
| belmoreira | ttx I like 2, but when these meetings have some traction and attendees... to avoid some disappointment when having other teams presenting | 15:26 |
| belmoreira | imtiazc ++ | 15:26 |
| ttx | belmoreira: yes we would need to have a number of presenters to seed the discussion | 15:26 |
| ttx | loan: yes, once we start collecting answers we could totally document them on the wiki | 15:27 |
| ttx | you all could actually help with that :) | 15:27 |
| alistarle | ttx: for the wiki, maybe we can begin by filling up question without answer, to launch the discussion ? | 15:28 |
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| loan | maybe we misunderstood the purpose of these wikis | 15:29 |
| ttx | imtiazc: I added that suggestion to https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/large-scale-sig-lightning-talks | 15:29 |
| ttx | in the sublist of things we would like to discuss but need key presenters for | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | For reference, some links about the ceph setup at CERN: | 15:30 |
| belmoreira | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OopRMUYiY5E | 15:30 |
| belmoreira | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21LF2LC58MM | 15:30 |
| belmoreira | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7ew3XXb7Q | 15:30 |
| ttx | alistarle: yes, that's how we've been using them. To list the questions and the answers | 15:30 |
| ttx | sometimes just the questions | 15:30 |
| ttx | alistarle: I can create a page for Ceph Q&A, seeding it with your set of questions | 15:31 |
| alistarle | LGTM, and we can complete them by detailing it a little more if needed | 15:31 |
| ttx | exactly | 15:31 |
| ttx | OK, let me summarize all the ideas for the meeting logs | 15:32 |
| ttx | #info The SG people start a thread on a specific Ceph integration question they have on the OpenStack mailing-list, see if we get the Ceph experts out of the woods and participating | 15:32 |
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| ttx | #info we plan to have in the near future a Ceph/OpenStack scaling session of the Large Scale SIG video meetings, and start gathering names of people to invite to that. need key presenters first | 15:33 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to create a wiki page for Ceph-related questions and seed it with SG questions | 15:33 |
| ttx | #info In the list of "sessions we would like to have but need to find the right people first", we also have CentOS upgrading | 15:34 |
| ttx | #info ttx should see if that sort of discussion could fit in the "regular short virtual event" format that the Foundation wants to support | 15:35 |
| leducflorian | thx for all those usefull references belmoreira | 15:35 |
| ttx | Alright, I think I captured everything | 15:35 |
| ttx | #info If you have ideas of lightning talks that could seed a discussion, or ideas of sessions we shouldhave but lack presenters for, please add them to https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/large-scale-sig-lightning-talks | 15:36 |
| ttx | Anything else on that topic? | 15:36 |
| ttx | Business summary: We don't have answers, but we have a plan to gather them :) | 15:37 |
| ttx | And yes, would be good to dig into the trove of past summit presentations see if anything useful turns up | 15:38 |
| ttx | CERN but also elsewhere | 15:38 |
| ttx | #link https://www.openstack.org/videos/search?search=Ceph | 15:38 |
| ttx | I did have a look, but those sounded pretty specific and not general enough | 15:39 |
| loan | Everything seems good. We are starting to gather informations on our side about that because it's quite urgent on our side (thining about redesigning our ceph infrastructure). | 15:39 |
| loan | So maybe we will also have some results / presentations to share in a near future. | 15:39 |
| ttx | https://www.openstack.org/videos/summits/sydney-2017/the-dos-and-donts-for-ceph-and-openstack looks promising | 15:39 |
| ttx | And Florian is such a great speaker | 15:39 |
| ttx | Alright, if nothing else, let's move on to next topic | 15:40 |
| loan | yeah, it seem very interesting :) | 15:40 |
| ttx | #topic Progress/Blockers | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress/Blockers (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:41 | |
| ttx | * Stage 1 - Configure (amorin) | 15:41 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/Configure | 15:41 |
| ttx | Any progress/blocker to report, amorin ? | 15:41 |
| amorin | I havent been able to move this topic forward | 15:41 |
| ttx | * Stage 2 - Monitor (genekuo) | 15:41 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/Monitor | 15:41 |
| ttx | gene is not around, I can report a few patches were posted for oslo.metrics, slow progress on the oslo,messaging integration front | 15:42 |
| ttx | * Stage 3 - Scale Up (ttx) | 15:42 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleUp | 15:42 |
| ttx | Started that thread on the ML and will be digesting answers on the page soon | 15:43 |
| ttx | # Stage 4/5 - Scale Out, upgrade & maintain (belmoreira) | 15:43 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleOut | 15:43 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/UpgradeAndMaintain | 15:43 |
| ttx | we saw progress already, any blocker? help needed? | 15:43 |
| belmoreira | as mentioned before, updated the pages. Please have a look. | 15:43 |
| ttx | ok then... | 15:44 |
| ttx | #topic Next meeting | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:44 | |
| ttx | Our next meeting should be in two weeks, Feb 24, but I'll likely not be available on Feb 24 as we have a Foundation all-hands meeting planned | 15:44 |
| ttx | We can push back, or someone else can chair | 15:44 |
| leducflorian | plenty of information to gather thanks all | 15:45 |
| ttx | we could also schedule our video meeting instead | 15:45 |
| belmoreira | since you are the main driver of the group I would suggest to postpone, especially if you start the zoom | 15:45 |
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| ttx | belmoreira: Is there a topic in your list you would feel comfortable running for our first video meeting the week after? | 15:46 |
| ttx | like... March 3rd? | 15:46 |
| ttx | Regions vs Cells would probably be a hit | 15:47 |
| imtiazc | +1 | 15:47 |
| belmoreira | looks good | 15:47 |
| ttx | that gives us plenty of time to make some noise about it | 15:48 |
| ttx | also we'll be past the Chinese new year holidays | 15:48 |
| amorin | good for me | 15:49 |
| ttx | #info Next meeting will be a Zoom meeting (usual time, link to be posted a few days before) with topic: "Regions vs. Cells" and Belmiro doing the intro talk | 15:49 |
| belmoreira | we will need a place to have a zoom link. Also, ttx do you know if we can use an account from the foundation? | 15:49 |
| ttx | I should be able to provide a link | 15:49 |
| ttx | #info March 3rd, 15UTC | 15:49 |
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| ttx | That works for everyone? | 15:50 |
| belmoreira | +1 | 15:50 |
| genekuo | oops sorry I miss the meeting | 15:50 |
| genekuo | I will catch up with the logs | 15:50 |
| ttx | genekuo: you missed all the fun! | 15:50 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: large_scale_sig)" | 15:51 | |
| ttx | genekuo: anything specific to report? I mentioned your in-flight patches | 15:51 |
| genekuo | yeah, I'm almost done with the functional test as oslo.messaging side | 15:51 |
| genekuo | awaiting the new release for oslo.metrics to be release so that the bug can be fixed | 15:52 |
| ttx | genekuo: do you run Ceph? We've been dsicussing collecting specific Ceph+OpenStack answers | 15:52 |
| genekuo | We do run Ceph, but it's handled in other teams along with cinder | 15:52 |
| genekuo | We have a dedicated storage team | 15:52 |
| ttx | hah, common pattern it seems | 15:53 |
| genekuo | I can probably make the oslo.messaging patch ready to review in next week | 15:53 |
| ttx | genekuo: do you think they could be interested in joining a specific Ceph+OpenStack ops discussion in the near future? | 15:53 |
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| ttx | genekuo: great! But you also need to enjoy the holidays | 15:54 |
| genekuo | hmm, I can ask them | 15:54 |
| loan | it seem that Societe generale need to let the dedicated Cinder team also handle Ceph :') | 15:54 |
| ttx | loan: problem solved! | 15:54 |
| ttx | before we close, anything else, anyone? | 15:55 |
| genekuo | Ah, I would like to mention I've reviewed the Google docs and it LGTM | 15:55 |
| loan | the Google docs? | 15:56 |
| ttx | you mean Belmiro's? he posted the result in the wiki | 15:56 |
| genekuo | yep | 15:56 |
| genekuo | Thanks for the work :) | 15:56 |
| ttx | loan: belmiro had a google doc with the proposed responses to the #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Scale_SIG/ScaleOut questions | 15:56 |
| belmoreira | thanks genekuo, it's now in the wiki | 15:56 |
| ttx | Alright, thanks everyone for participating and sharing your experience. Have a great week and we'll talk again in 3 weeks! | 15:57 |
| genekuo | thank you all, sorry for being late | 15:57 |
| ttx | Keep an eye on the mailing list for the video meeting announcement | 15:57 |
| alistarle | thanks for all your inputs ! | 15:57 |
| alistarle | \o | 15:57 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 10 15:58:03 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-02-10-15.00.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-02-10-15.00.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_scale_sig/2021/large_scale_sig.2021-02-10-15.00.log.html | 15:58 |
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| loan | thx you guys. See you in march :) | 15:59 |
| loan | \o | 15:59 |
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