Thursday, 2014-12-11

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jokke_o/15:00
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nikhil_k#startmeeting Glance15:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec 11 15:02:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
kragnizo/15:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'15:02
pennerco/15:02
nikhil_k#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda15:02
nikhil_k#topic Mini-summit details15:02
mclaren\o15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Mini-summit details (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:02
nikhil_k#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-glance-mid-cycle-meetup15:02
nikhil_k#info Glance mid-cycle meetup for Kilo will be at the VMware office in Palo Alto on Jan 27, 28 parallel to Nova in a separate room for 3215:03
nikhil_kPlease indicate your tentative/planned participation for the same in the next couple weeks or so15:04
flaper87FWIW, we should try to avoid organizing meetups in the west-coast15:04
flaper87it's way too expensive for a 2 days mini-conf15:04
flaper87and this doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the location15:04
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flaper87and the organization15:04
jokke_flaper87: next one is at West-Coast as well, but much closer (hopefully) ;)15:04
nikhil_kthat will help the event planners to conduct the event smoothly15:04
zhiyanhi (sorry for late)15:05
nikhil_kthe intent of the email to the active developers was to figure out if it would work out or not15:05
nikhil_kunfortunately, scheduling is difficult for larger groups15:05
nikhil_kI'd preferred to have this on east coast however, the majority said otherwise15:06
flaper87jokke_: :P15:06
nikhil_kso, we will just go with it for now15:06
jokke_nikhil_k: I think the joint meetup with Nova was the big driver ... inconveniences15:07
flaper87yup, ok.15:07
nikhil_k#info Please add topics to be discussed at the mid-cycle meetup to the etherpad15:07
flaper87can we make sure we have a way to attend remotely ?15:07
nikhil_kwe can try15:07
nikhil_k#action ask event planner to arrange for remote participation15:07
nikhil_k#topic k115:08
*** openstack changes topic to "k1 (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:08
zhiyani'd like to help try it from remote if needed15:08
cpallaresme too15:08
nikhil_kok, have created another topic in the etherpad for remote participation15:09
nikhil_kwe can try to schedule the topics accroding to the interest and timezone15:09
nikhil_kplease add the info15:09
nikhil_k#info k1 to be cut between Dec 16 and Dec 1815:09
* flaper87 will do that15:09
nikhil_k#link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/kilo-115:10
* flaper87 will focus on reviews15:10
flaper87we're not doing that bad  except for the review backlog15:10
flaper87at least patches are up15:10
nikhil_k#info cores and the drivers please try to focus reviews on the k1 BPs/bugs15:10
nikhil_k#action nikhil_k , rosmaita and arnaud : to review and approve the necessary specs to land the code15:11
nikhil_kwe can try to get 2-3 BPs if not all15:11
flaper87nikhil_k: we should also start doing that for k-2 specs too15:11
nikhil_khave re-prioritized the BPs so that we can forcus on a few15:12
nikhil_kplease let me know if you've concerns15:12
nikhil_kflaper87: sure thing. The plan is to approve all the kilo specs in the next 3 weeks15:12
nikhil_kthat way the scheduling and approval is not much of a problem15:13
flaper87nikhil_k: I'll help with that15:13
nikhil_ksounds good.15:13
nikhil_k#info everyone: please try to review the specs15:13
* nikhil_k waits to see if there are any more concerns15:14
* flaper87 sips coffee15:14
jokke_nikhil_k: all of the ones left targeting for k1 are something that are ready to land in time?15:14
nikhil_kthat is the hope15:15
jokke_nikhil_k: or is there panic expected? :P15:15
nikhil_kthe most ready 2-3 BPs should be able to land15:15
nikhil_kno panic, we will do this smoothly15:15
nikhil_kand skip k1 if not possible15:15
nikhil_kand come up with a more proactive plan for k215:16
jokke_++15:16
zhiyan> "The plan is to approve all the kilo specs in the next 3 weeks" ,really like a good idea15:16
flaper87:P15:16
nikhil_knext up....15:16
nikhil_k#topic stable maint group for Glance15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "stable maint group for Glance (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:16
nikhil_kso, there is a plan to create the group if it's not already created15:17
nikhil_k#action nikhil to check the status15:17
nikhil_k#info jokke_ and nikhil_k are in the stable maint group atm15:17
flaper87I'm in the global openstack stable-maint group, I would love to keep doing this for glance15:17
nikhil_kwe will have more people once things are finalized15:17
nikhil_kflaper87: sg15:18
flaper87in other words, I've already -2 powers on all those patches :P15:18
nikhil_kwe will undoubtedly benefit from your expertise15:18
cpallareslol15:18
nikhil_kthat basically solves the confusion about what's happening to the stable/incehouse etc PRs15:19
jokke_flaper87: that means no breaking client nor glance_store until we get stable out of those as well :P15:19
nikhil_kcontact the stable team if you think that the patch can land15:19
nikhil_kstable team will collaborate with you to see if the patch fits the criterion or if exception can be granted15:19
* flaper87 breaks nothing15:19
* nikhil_k waits15:20
* jokke_ hides15:20
* flaper87 scares jokke_15:20
nikhil_k#topic fast-track after k115:21
*** openstack changes topic to "fast-track after k1 (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:21
nikhil_kit's not a possibility with the current setup in launchpad15:21
nikhil_kso, if anyone has energy to do this please come up with a creative idea15:21
jokke_could you define fast track in the context?15:22
nikhil_kelse my plan is to prioritize the specs/BPs and send emails to the respective groups15:22
nikhil_kokay, so the terminology is a bit confusing15:22
nikhil_kfast-track == a small focused sprint like week or two. focus around important BPs/bugs that did not land in k1 and can merge soon-ish15:23
* nikhil_k waits15:23
flaper87nikhil_k: I'd probably do that closer to the end of k-215:23
jokke_ah15:23
flaper87just to know if we need to fast-track k-2 bps15:24
flaper87before the FF15:24
nikhil_kwe need to flaper8715:24
nikhil_kas we are gunna have a informal freeze 2 weeks after k215:24
kragnizhow formal will this informal be?15:24
zhiyancan we define some sub/small milestone in LP, and set suitable bug to it? (iiuc the terminology)15:24
flaper87kk15:25
nikhil_kzhiyan: the weird thing is it will create confusion for other projects or openstack as a whole15:25
nikhil_kso we cannot do this in LP15:25
nikhil_kcore members need to be vigilant and communicate on the patch sets accordingly15:26
jokke_ah LP <315:26
flaper87jokke_: >.>15:26
zhiyannikhil_k: if so, seems to maintain a list in a etherplad is a idea?15:26
nikhil_kzhiyan: that sounds like a good idea15:26
jokke_nikhil_k: so auto -2 on everything and then we look exceptions? :P15:26
nikhil_kwe will see closer to the freeze15:26
zhiyannikhil_k: can we list security related bug into it?15:26
nikhil_kkragniz: pretty formally informal15:26
zhiyanok, should be ok, due to LP right15:27
nikhil_k(and not informally formal)15:27
kragniznikhil_k: makes sense :P15:27
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nikhil_khush15:27
* nikhil_k glad15:27
flaper87+115:27
nikhil_kzhiyan: hmm, not sure15:27
nikhil_kzhiyan: security bugs has a way to get exceptions so that does not seem necessary15:28
zhiyanactually, i think it's helpful for developer, a workitem list in near term, to me at least15:28
nikhil_klet's keep them separate15:28
nikhil_kzhiyan: abs15:28
zhiyannikhil_k: ok, not sure15:28
nikhil_kin the next week or so, am planning to come up with specs/BPs, bugs and core-to-specs mapping15:28
nikhil_kas well as a etherpad for the convenience15:29
nikhil_k#topic Client inconsistencies15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Client inconsistencies (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:29
* jokke_ has been using trello now for 3 days and would vote for that over etherpad 15:29
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kragniz+1 for trello15:30
nikhil_kjokke_: kragniz sure15:30
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nikhil_knot sure who proposed this topic15:30
jokke_o/15:30
flaper87o/15:30
flaper87jokke_: introduce your concern, I'll go after you15:31
nikhil_kso the API is not returning items and the client does15:32
* nikhil_k not like15:32
jokke_ok, so first step was to get our Image API server returning None valued fields which is fine, now latest proposal from flaper87 was to get the client generating those None fields for the API Servers that does not return them15:32
flaper87So, the API now returns None fields15:33
mclarennit: the server returns null rather than None I think15:33
flaper87this will require us to bump the server API version15:33
jokke_I see the pain where this is coming from, but IMHO it's just fundamentally wrong that we assume and generate image data in the client just to be consistent with the new API functionality15:33
nikhil_kah ha15:33
flaper87it returns null which is None15:33
flaper87wait15:33
flaper87we're not assuming anything, we *know* for sure which fields are not being returned because they are None15:34
flaper87That's what the list of fields in that patch is for15:34
flaper87the reason I'm doing this is because I think adding those fields to the "auto-generated" image object is far better than having inconsistent image objects15:34
flaper87The patch adds a forward-compatible layer for consumers of glanceclient to the yet-to-be-released glance v2.315:35
jokke_flaper87: we are assuming as the server did not return them, we do not know if there was a bug and a field missing etc. We just assume that it's None because it was not returned15:35
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jokke_So wanted to get this discussion for wider audience to get the consensus15:36
* nikhil_k agrees with jokke_ 15:36
flaper87The patch is backwards compatible and it won't break client's code unless they rely on the field not being there15:36
mclarencan you give an example of real world pain with the current behaviour?15:36
flaper87mclaren: nova15:36
flaper87there's a whole bunch of utility functions to *add* those fields15:37
flaper87because in a normal environment you expect them to be there15:37
flaper87and the fact the server didn't return those is *wrong*15:37
flaper87I avoided all kind of magic to make this patch behavior predictable15:37
mclarenAny reason nova can't do a image.get('prop')?15:38
mclarento handle old behaviour (which it needs to do I think) as well as newer behaviour?15:38
flaper87that's just yet-another-workaround on users of glanceclient15:39
flaper87for something that is wrong in glanceclient15:39
flaper87Also, if you do .get('prop') you don't know if the prop is None or missing15:39
mclarensame if you auto fill it in, right?15:40
flaper87we'd basically be moving the "assumption" to the consumer of the library15:40
nikhil_kwhy can't this be handled in the wrapper in nova?15:40
flaper87mclaren: no because we *control* the client15:40
mclarenbut nova dont'15:40
flaper87we know what fields can be None in the server15:40
flaper87mclaren: control as in we develop it15:40
jokke_flaper87: we do not move it there, we keep it there as they have taken the responsibility to assume so until now as we have never returned those fields, right?15:40
flaper87users of the library shouldn't care on whether a field is missing because it's None in the server15:40
nikhil_kwe cannot assume everyone using the server is using the client15:41
flaper87jokke_: but that's wrong15:41
mclarenI think nova populate other properties, like arch, which may or may not be present, we don't control those15:41
flaper87the whole point if to fix those things we've pushed to glanceclient's users15:41
nikhil_kglanceclient is a tool to use glance15:42
nikhil_kand not something that is necessary to use it15:42
* flaper87 is not sure if nikhil_k last sentence is in favor or against the proposed patch15:42
flaper87:P15:42
kragniznikhil_k: but it should make using glance easy, right?15:42
flaper87I think bringing consistency to the client is something that we should do15:43
jokke_kragniz: I would not open that can of worms :P15:43
nikhil_kkragniz: without breaking the response15:43
kragnizjokke_: :P15:43
nikhil_kthis may affect users who are using the client15:43
flaper87nikhil_k: the patch is not breaking the response, fWIW15:43
jokke_flaper87: the client is consistent with the server as it should be15:43
flaper87jokke_: yes but it is inconsistent in the way it interacts with the user15:44
flaper87which one do we value more ?15:44
jokke_flaper87: well we can revert the returning None and consistently not return them from client ;P15:44
flaper87that adds inconsistent responses15:45
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flaper87we're still breaking consistency for the user15:45
flaper87therfore we're adding frustrations to the consumer of the library15:45
mclarenreturning null in v2 is inconsistent with v1 which doesn't return the field at all!15:45
flaper87yeah but we can't change v1 anymore15:46
flaper87this is about making our currently supported version consistent15:46
nikhil_kflaper87: can we see the nova patch?15:47
flaper87https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/image/glance.py#L533-L57515:47
flaper87that's just one part15:48
flaper87there are more things related to this in that same module15:48
nikhil_kflaper87: well , am curious what approach is planned in nova15:48
flaper87nikhil_k: I want to get rid of that function, entirely15:49
nikhil_kunderstandably there are a lot things in the nova.image module which can be reduced15:49
flaper87nikhil_k: you'd be surprised that most of those things exist because we are not consistent15:49
flaper87and we've broken things for them15:49
flaper87I'm working on removing glance.py entirely15:49
flaper87but I've been forced to copy many of those ugly functions because *we* have a client that doesn't always work as expected15:50
flaper87lets forget about the differences between v1 and v2, that's fine15:50
flaper87major versions, blah blah...15:50
zhiyanseems that function need to be there anyway, due to it works for v1 as well...15:50
flaper87but seriously, there are other parts that could be definitely better15:50
mclarenthat nova function creates a dict from a warlock object15:50
flaper87zhiyan: it being needed for v1 is very different than it needed for both15:51
mclaren(in the case of v2)15:51
flaper87we've 10 mins left, I'd really love to get this patch in the next glanceclient release.15:51
flaper87if folks think it shouldn't be there, fine.15:52
nikhil_kok, so this seems to be eveloving into a bigger conversation15:52
flaper87but lets decide so I can move ahead and I guess I'll copy that code15:52
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nikhil_kflaper87: lets avoid it for now15:52
nikhil_k#topic Glance client release15:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Glance client release (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:52
zhiyananyway, it will be ugly until v1 get deprecated.15:53
flaper87zhiyan: sure but at least I can start cleaning up the v2 path15:53
nikhil_kplease ping, kragniz flaper87 jokke_ sigmavirus24_awa or nikhil_k if you would like to get your patch in a client release15:53
flaper87nikhil_k: can we please add comments and votes on the review?15:53
mclarenzhiyan: +115:53
nikhil_k#info ping kragniz flaper87 jokke_ sigmavirus24_awa or nikhil_k if you would like to get your patch in a client release15:54
nikhil_k#topic Open Discussion15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Glance)"15:54
kragniznikhil_k: are you still planning on doing the client release today?15:54
zhiyanquick one:15:54
kragnizor push it back more15:54
nikhil_koh, glad your reminder kragniz15:54
nikhil_kwould like to release the client today15:54
nikhil_kso that we are not releasing it on Friday unless people are okay waiting until Monday15:55
nikhil_kreminded*15:55
kragnizokay15:55
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zhiyando we have a glance trello account? i can't open https://trello.com/b/GFXMXxsP/openstack-glance15:55
jokke_I think TravT_ is waiting quite eagerly for the new client to fix horizon stuff, no?15:56
nikhil_knope15:56
nikhil_kit's private15:56
kragnizzhiyan: you need to be invited15:56
nikhil_kto avoid chaos15:56
nikhil_khowever, if you are willing to maintain it15:56
jokke_so to get that to k1, I'd vote to ship client out today15:56
TravT_jokke_: yeah, I can't push on horizon until we get that patch through15:56
nikhil_kthen you could be invited15:56
TravT_actually devstack is broken right now for v215:57
TravT_until the client is released15:57
zhiyannikhil_k: if we going to use trello to maintain near term workitem as we mentioned above, i need to join it, if we like to go that way instead of etherpad15:57
jokke_so I think everything else but the PS discussed above has landed to client from the list15:59
nikhil_kzhiyan: you can join for sure using your user/pass combination. then you can be invited into a trello board15:59
nikhil_kzhiyan: let's see how things go..15:59
jokke_zhiyan: just ping nikhil with your trello username15:59
zhiyannikhil_k: Zhi Yan Liu15:59
flaper87zhiyan: you need to provide the email16:00
flaper87the one you used for your trello account16:00
nikhil_kTravT_: yeah, we can't risk breaking rest of things on Friday . So, if we get the patches ready today we will go ahead with the release16:00
jokke_time16:00
jokke_can we continue the client release on #openstack-glance for a min?16:00
TravT_nikhil_k: why not? i always release code on a Friday night and then go home for the weekend. ;)16:00
nikhil_kzhiyan: you'r added16:00
nikhil_kTravT_: heh, perfect!16:00
zhiyannikhil_k: thanks16:00
nikhil_kThanks all!16:01
nikhil_k#endmeeting16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec 11 16:01:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:01
mclarenthanks!16:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-12-11-15.02.html16:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-12-11-15.02.txt16:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-12-11-15.02.log.html16:01
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TravT_funny. i thought I was early to the meeting.16:01
TravT_need to update my calendar16:01
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