Tuesday, 2015-03-31

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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: CI Check/Gate pipelines currently stuck due to a bad dependency creeping in the system. No need to recheck your patches at the moment.08:54
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Check/Gate unstuck, feel free to recheck your abusively-failed changes.11:49
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EmilienMhello puppeteers14:58
* gfidente turns so he won't mistakenly be recognized as one of them14:59
EmilienMgfidente: hum. We all know you.14:59
crinkleo/14:59
EmilienM#startmeeting puppet-openstack15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 31 15:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is EmilienM. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'puppet_openstack'15:00
gchamoulo/15:00
EmilienM#topic last weeks action items15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "last weeks action items (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)"15:00
EmilienMso we did not get a lot of feedback from sbadia's emails15:01
EmilienMsbadia: thanks for your e-mail15:01
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EmilienMwell, I guess he's not around now15:02
mgagneo/15:02
EmilienMif you have any feedback to share about "Coordinator(s)/PTL tasks description" thread, it's time15:03
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EmilienMsame thing about "Moving under the big tent" thread15:03
EmilienMI guess everybody agreed to move under the big tent finally15:04
gchamoulyes!15:04
HunnerIt's not if, just when & how :)15:04
mgagneyep15:04
EmilienMI think the next step is to document what sbadia suggested in PTL tasks description15:05
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EmilienMso we can contribute on it on the wiki15:05
EmilienMor maybe write a spec for it, I have no preference15:05
EmilienMso we will agree on what we actually expect from PTL15:05
crinkleI think just copying what was in sbadia's email into a wiki page is probably fine15:06
EmilienMeven though I'm convinced everything is already in official PTL document15:06
EmilienMcrinkle: ack15:06
EmilienM#action EmilienM to document sbadia's email in the wiki15:06
dvorakEmilienM: I wonder how much of that is that people don't read openstack-dev15:06
EmilienMand then, we need to elect a PTL, so first we open the position. People can send their candidacy on the ML15:07
crinkledvorak: this was cross-posted to both lists15:07
dvorakah, nm then :)15:07
EmilienManything to add about this topic?15:08
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crinkleshould we set a date to start submitting nominations?15:08
EmilienMcrinkle: well, I guess from today until next meeting we are waiting for candidacies and then if we have more than one candidate, we will have to figure out how to elect15:09
crinkleEmilienM: mmk15:09
EmilienMcrinkle: does it make sense?15:09
mfischthe ability to subscribe only to the puppet tag should remove any objections to the openstack-dev ml15:09
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crinkleEmilienM: sure, so it's open now15:09
EmilienMyep15:10
EmilienMI switch to next topic then15:10
EmilienM#topic Defaults for new config file parameters15:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Defaults for new config file parameters (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)"15:10
EmilienM#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169066/15:10
EmilienMmgagne: dvorak ^15:11
mgagneI posted my opinion on the subject in the review15:11
sbadiahi! (sorry I'm late)15:11
EmilienMand I +1 the comment.15:11
dvorakWe don't seem to handle this consistently.  In some places we're putting defaults into config files if they're not specified i other places we're ensuring absent if they're not specified15:11
EmilienMwe may need a new blueprint, that will affect all modules15:11
mgagneWe don't have a policy in place regarding default value. Until we have one (or not), I suggest we do not block the change.15:12
gchamoulI suggest to open a blueprint on that because I am agree with mgagne that it will be time consuming!15:12
mgagnesome values need to be ensure => absent if some features are disabled. This isn't really because of default value.15:12
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mgagnewell, I'm wrong I guess15:13
EmilienMok so, we move forward for ongoing patches and we create a blueprint for future15:13
mgagne10 lines below: volume_tmp_dir is ensure => absent15:13
EmilienMwho want to start working on the BP ?15:13
crinkleEmilienM: but what policy should the blueprint put forward?15:14
dvorakis there any concensus about what the BP should say?15:14
crinkle^15:14
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dvorakI think the answer is not obvious15:14
mgagneIMO, there is no right answer15:14
mgagnebecause you NEED some reasonable default values to have a working setup.15:14
dvorakand I think the if defined { set option} else { ensure absent } pattern is pretty gross, but it's generally the behavior I prefer15:14
EmilienMcrinkle: only default values for Puppet params15:14
dvorakmgagne: yes, but personally I'm opposed to hard coding upstream defaults in puppet modules15:15
mgagneI think the issue is that we lag behind master when it comes to default values15:15
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mgagnedvorak: volume_tmp_dir is ensure => absent because the default value in openstack is None15:15
dvorakit's a huge maintnance hassle that we're pretty much always going to be behind on with no automated testing15:15
mgagnedvorak: "with no automated testing" lets fix that part?15:16
dvorakthat might be possible with openstack projects, but probably not with things like 3rd party drivers15:16
mgagnedvorak: which 3rd party drivers are you referring to?15:16
dvorakfor example, storage backends, like solid fire, etc15:17
dvorakor there was an issue with the Cisco Nexus 1K recently15:17
mgagnedvorak: I don't see the problem15:17
mgagnedvorak: they provide configs (and default values) just like any other openstack components15:17
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mfischmy frustration with encoding defaults is that the default change upstream and then puppet doesn't15:18
Hunnerdvorak: I think defaults should be sane, not just copied upstream. However upstream is usually pretty sane15:18
dvorakfair enough, but developing that tooling is a huge task.  I don't think we should necessarily assume it will be developed in a policy we put together in the near future.15:18
mfischthat doesnt have anything to do with 3rd party modules15:18
dvorakHunner: my concern is more when upstream defaults change.15:18
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mfischThe issue is whether upstream means Openstack, RedHat, or Ubuntu15:19
Hunnerdvorak: Yeah, but there isn't really any way around that. Software changes, and modules adapt to it15:19
EmilienMshould we dev a tool to detect it ?15:19
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EmilienMmfisch: OpenStack.15:19
gchamouli think yes !15:19
mgagnedvorak: including NO default values defeat the whole purpose of our modules. I better use file resource to manage my configs then15:19
gchamouland being able to detect all the deprecated parameters as well!15:20
mfisch+1000 for a tool15:20
dvorakmgagne: specifically my concern is situations like this rbd patch, where there are already built-in defaults that take effect if the module sets nothing15:20
dvorakI guess I should have been more clear15:20
mgagnegchamoul: it isn't that hard. ask openstack projects to dump config definitions in a consumable format and we parse from there15:20
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mgagnedvorak: it's all over the place alright, rbd isn't the first one15:21
mgagnedvorak: I could say you are opening a pandora's box15:21
gchamoulmgagne: no it's too hard! That's something I was thinking about for a while now15:21
EmilienMgchamoul: there is already a python tool to generate .conf files, we can re-use it?15:21
EmilienMit's in oslo somewhere15:21
dvorakright, and my conern specifically with this sort of patch, is that if the default schange in the next version of RBD, then you potentially have a non-optimal or even unsupported config w/ceph15:21
gchamoulEmilienM: the doc team are using something too but I didn't find it15:22
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mgagnedvorak: is ceph any different than any other drivers or core openstack components?15:22
dvorakno, it's just an example15:22
mgagnedvorak: we just can't make exceptions based on the "feeling" of reviewers15:22
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mgagnedvorak: it has to be a project wide policy15:22
dvorakThat's exactly why I added it to the agenda.15:23
mgagnealright15:23
mgagnelets work on it then15:23
mgagnebut I suggest we do not block this change otherwise it might never merge, well not before months15:23
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dvorakI -1'ed it, it's not blocking anything.15:24
EmilienMmgagne: +115:24
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gchamoulwell we have a lot of reviews in gerrit since a while!15:24
* EmilienM comes again with a blueprint suggestion15:24
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gchamoulthat's why I am harrassing core people for 3 weeks!15:25
dvorakEmilienM: I see no consensus, so I'm not going to waste time writing a BP when there isnt' even agreement on what the problem is.15:25
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EmilienMdvorak: right15:25
EmilienMthat's the purpose of this topic and I don't want to close it until we got one15:25
dvorakok, fair enough15:26
mgagnecan we come up with a tool to detect default values provided by our modules and compare them with upstream? lets compile a basic catalog, blacklist/ignore any username/password/connection configs and see what comes up as different from upstream15:26
gchamoulmgagne: +115:26
EmilienMgchamoul: out of topic now, can you raise it by the end of this meeting (open discussion)15:26
dvorakwhen there is a default provided by the underlying software, what is the value of having the puppet module also write it in the config file?15:27
gchamoulEmilienM: I know I was just answering to "but I suggest we do not block this change otherwise it might never merge, well not before months15:27
dvorakspecifically in the common case where the end user doesn't want to chagne the default.15:27
gchamoulfrom mgagne15:27
mgagnelets create a ML thread and continue here?15:28
crinkle++15:28
EmilienM+115:28
gchamoul+!15:28
gchamoul115:28
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EmilienM#action mgagne or dvorak runs a new thread on ML about Defaults for new config file parameters15:28
EmilienMdvorak: mgagne : can we go to next topic? anything else to add ?15:29
mgagnenot for me15:29
dvoraksure.15:29
EmilienM#topic Support for recent changes to nova-novncproxy service15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Support for recent changes to nova-novncproxy service (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)"15:29
EmilienM#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16854515:29
EmilienMlarsks: ping15:29
larskspong!15:29
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EmilienMnothing much to say in a meeting, we just need some feedback on gerrit about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16854515:30
EmilienMlarsks: go ahead if you want to explain the problem, and solutions15:30
larsksFor information on why we are doing this, take a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1409142.15:30
openstackLaunchpad bug 1409142 in OpenStack Compute (nova) juno "[OSSA 2015-005] Websocket Hijacking Vulnerability in Nova VNC Server (CVE-2015-0259)" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Dave McCowan (dave-mccowan)15:30
larsksThe tl;dr is:15:30
larsksThose changes in nova made the value of novncproxy_base_url required both for nova-compute *and* for nova-novncproxy, where previously it was only required by nova-compute.15:31
EmilienMso novnc support in our puppet-nova is broken in kilo15:31
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larsksWe have gone through several iterations of the fix; I'm reasonably happy with what we have right now, but open to alternative suggestions.15:32
larsksIt will require changes to tools that use the puppet-nova module (packstack, staypuft, etc)15:33
EmilienMthe major thing is, where to put vncproxy common params15:33
mgagnein nova::vncproxy::common =)15:33
larsksmgagne: I am happy to rename _ to :: :)15:33
mgagneand find a way to inform the use about the new location15:34
mgagneuser*15:34
larsksI was thinking about that earlier.  In theory, the user doesn't need to know about the module; it used by either nova::compute or nova::vncproxy15:34
EmilienMI was thinking about using nova::vncproxy and add a boolean to manage the proxy service or not15:34
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larsksEmilienM: I like that less, because just about everything else (I think) has separate modules for "providing the service" vs "client of that service".15:34
mgagnelarsks: values used to be passed to nova::compute, it's now nova::vncproxy::common. they need to move their configs15:34
larsksmgagne: what? I don't think there exists a nova:vncproxy::common right now...15:35
mgagnelarsks: in the proposed change: yes15:35
larsksErrr...in the proposed change, which I wrote, there is a nova::vncproxy_common module.15:35
mgagneI suggested renaming nova::vncproxy_common for nova::vncproxy::common15:36
larsksRight, i agree with that change.15:36
mgagneWe don't use underscore much in our class name15:36
EmilienMsounds fair15:36
larsksWorks for me.15:36
EmilienMcool!15:36
EmilienMlet's continue the discussion on gerrit15:36
EmilienMthanks a lot larsks15:36
larsksSure thing.15:36
mgagnealright15:36
EmilienM#topic Open Discussion, Bug and Review triage15:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion, Bug and Review triage (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)"15:36
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EmilienMgchamoul: shoot15:36
EmilienMyou were worry about that before.15:36
gchamoulNo I was just reacting to mgagne sentence15:37
gchamoul:D15:37
gchamoulso we have some patches needing Approvals15:37
mgagneI closed a bunch of released bugs. Some are still targeted to 6.0.0 (kilo) and others to unreleased versions (5.1.0, 4.3.0)15:37
EmilienMif some people have specific patches to highlight, shoot here15:37
gchamoulhttps://review.openstack.org/#/dashboard/?foreach=%28project%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dcinder+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dnova+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dswift+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dmanila+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dceilometer+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dironic+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dheat+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpu15:37
crinklethank you for working on that mgagne15:38
gchamoulppet%252Dneutron+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dglance+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dceph+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dmonasca+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dgnocchi+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dtripleo+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dkeystone+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dhorizon+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Ddesignate+OR%0Apr15:38
EmilienMmgagne: thanks a lot for this work15:38
gchamouloject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dmurano+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dn1k%252Dvsm+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dsahara+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dvswitch+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dtrove+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dtempest+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstacklib+OR%0Aproject%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstack+OR%0Aproject%3Astackfor15:38
gchamoulge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstack%252Dspecs%29+status%3Aopen+NOT+label%3AWorkflow%3C%3D%252D1+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D%252D2&title=Puppet+Openstack+Modules+Inbox&My+Patches+Requiring+Attention=owner%3Aself+%28label%3AVerified%252D1%252cjenkins+OR+label%3ACode%252DReview%252D1%29&Puppet+Openstack+Specs=NOT+owner%3Aself+project%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstack%252Dspecs&Needs+Approval=label%3AV15:38
gchamoulerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+owner%3Aself+label%3ACode%252DReview%3E%3D2+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%252D1&5+Days+Without+Feedback=label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+project%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstack%252Dspecs+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D2+age%3A5d&No+Negative+Feedback=label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+project%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%25215:38
EmilienMoh dear..15:38
gchamoulDopenstack%252Dspecs+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D%252D1+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3E%3D2+limit%3A50&Other=label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+project%3Astackforge%2Fpuppet%252Dopenstack%252Dspecs+label%3ACode%252DReview%252D1+limit%3A2015:38
gchamoulsorry for the link15:38
crinkle-_-15:38
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larsksOuch.15:38
EmilienMgchamoul: can you short the link ?15:38
EmilienMwith bit.ly or...15:38
mgagnealso, I would like to know if we are planning on actively supporting legacy branches or not?15:38
gchamoulsure15:38
mgagnelike grizzly =)15:38
EmilienMhum...15:38
EmilienMwe should ask on ML about that I think15:39
crinkleif people backport things to those branches I don't see a problem with making bugfix releases to them15:39
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mgagnebecause although we might think it's free, it still has a cost where we have to update rspec framework to make tests pass15:39
EmilienMyes15:39
dvorakdepending on how you define "support" it's a huge amount of work even aside from the unit tests15:40
mgagnedvorak: so far, stable branches have been a scratch your own itch thing15:40
dvorakI'm curious, who here is using the stable branches?15:41
mgagneI am15:41
EmilienMme too15:41
mgagnebut I'm seriously thinking about running from master with a branchless puppetmaster15:42
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mgagneI'm not sure how yet but the idea is out there15:42
gchamoulso https://goo.gl/15:42
dvorakwe're running from master, and plan to keep doing so until we run into kilo/juno compat issues15:42
EmilienMwith good CI, all is possible...15:42
crinklethere are already kilo/juno compat issues15:42
gchamoulcan you have a look under 'Needs Approvals'15:42
EmilienMyep15:42
dvorakcrinkle: none that have affected us15:43
mgagneEmilienM: especially if I can detect deprecated configs or not yet introduced configs =)15:43
crinkledvorak: there are a couple in neutron that try to install packages that don't exist yet15:43
EmilienMgchamoul: the url is incomplete..15:43
gchamoulhttps://goo.gl/hKTmf115:43
EmilienMif people could have a look at https://goo.gl/hKTmf1 and do some reviews, gchamoul would be very happy :รจ)15:44
crinkle...those are all the patches...15:45
mgagneEmilienM: btw, my bug tools are there: https://github.com/mgagne/openstack-puppet-release-tools15:45
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EmilienMcrinkle: yeah... just to highlight the "need approvals" things..15:45
gchamoulcrinkle: the priority is the 'Needs Approvals' list15:45
EmilienMgchamoul: I was waiting more from specific patches...15:45
EmilienMgchamoul: how come it's a priority?15:46
gchamouland '5 days without Feedback15:46
dvorakgchamoul: thanks for that, I like the way the dashboard is done, I've been meaning to do something similar15:46
gchamoulEmilienM: I think all is urgent!15:46
EmilienMmgagne: that's a nice tool, I think we would need it to move it under openstack repo15:46
EmilienMgchamoul: well, I disagree with you. We have different point of view I think.15:47
EmilienMwe have some very urgent things and some less urgent.15:47
EmilienMthe idea of this topic is to highlight some blocked patches, that needs discussion or just reviews... same for bugs15:47
crinkle++15:48
EmilienMnot putting a BIG url15:48
EmilienMwith all patches that are under review15:48
EmilienMmfisch: we have 10 min left, would you like to talk about Bug Triage for a specific module?15:48
mfischI have again failed to prepare for this15:49
mfischLets discuss puppet-nova next week15:49
gchamoulEmilienM: I just want to help!15:49
EmilienMno problem.15:49
gchamoulok15:49
EmilienMgchamoul: your help is highly appreciated15:50
gchamoulwe have a lot of patches in review15:50
EmilienMwe just want to be efficient and this URL does not help much15:50
EmilienMok, so we can ask officially here to let core people know that they may do more review if they have time15:50
gchamouland I am quite disappointed when I am seeing some new contrib ... without feedbacks, without reviews after 3 weeks15:50
EmilienMit's a good feedback15:51
gchamoulthat's why I am spamming all the core people!15:51
EmilienMspamming won't help much I guess15:51
gchamoulmfisch likes that!15:51
EmilienMare we done?15:51
gchamoulso What to do ?15:52
EmilienMif you have something else to add, rise your and now15:52
mfischWe need more cores then15:52
EmilienMhand*15:52
gchamouldoing the same on IRC?15:52
EmilienMmfisch: indeed, what do you suggest?15:52
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mfischEmilienM: well I wish I had an answer15:53
EmilienMhehe15:53
dvorakgchamoul: I'd remove puppet-ceph from that dashboard, since the core list is separate15:53
EmilienMdvorak: +115:54
mfischI'd certainly like to get feedback for new commiters15:54
dvoraksame for monasca15:54
gchamouldvorak: ack15:54
mfischyes +1 for monasca15:54
EmilienMmfisch: we can discuss about that later (offline?) to see if someone could be proposed15:54
EmilienMmfisch: we are core on monasca now, right ? ( cc sbadia )15:54
mfischI am for sure15:55
EmilienMcool15:55
mfischthose guys still work very closely with the HP team, changes so much15:55
EmilienMyeah... the module will need some work I think15:56
mfischI agree15:56
EmilienMI think we are done15:56
EmilienMthanks everyone15:57
mfischthey're still fighting with stuff like upstream forcing keystone v3 without warning for exampple15:57
mfischthanks15:57
EmilienM#endmeeting15:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings"15:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 31 15:57:18 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:57
gchamoulthanks all15:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-31-15.00.html15:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-31-15.00.txt15:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-31-15.00.log.html15:57
crinklethanks EmilienM15:57
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