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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: gerrit has been restarted to clear a stuck events queue. any change events between 13:29-14:05 utc should be rechecked or have their approval votes reapplied to trigger jobs | 14:05 | |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 29 15:00:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 15:00 |
| asselin | o/ | 15:00 |
| patrickeast | hi everyone | 15:00 |
| krtaylor | Hi asselin | 15:00 |
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| zz_ja | morning | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | hi patrickeast | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | hi zz_ja | 15:01 |
| marcusvrn_ | Hi | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | hi marcusvrn | 15:01 |
| mmedvede | hi | 15:01 |
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| rfolco | o/ | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | hi mmedvede | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | hi rfolco | 15:01 |
| rhe00_ | hi | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | marcusvrn, glad you found out about this meeting, its a good point that we should advertise it more | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | hi rhe00_ | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | ok, lets get started | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | here's the agenda for today | 15:02 |
| nfedotov | hello all | 15:02 |
| marcusvrn_ | Yeah \o/ | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#4.2F29.2F15_1500_UTC | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | hi nfedotov | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | so a quick announcement | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | make note of the Gerrit 2.9 upgrade Saturday May 9 | 15:04 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Topics for discussion at Liberty summit | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Topics for discussion at Liberty summit (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:05 | |
| krtaylor | the proposed cross-project session is getting good remarks, looks lik eit may actually happen | 15:06 |
| krtaylor | I would like for it to be more of a discussion, working session or fish bowl | 15:06 |
| krtaylor | here is the topics etherpad link: | 15:07 |
| krtaylor | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-third-party-ci-working-group | 15:07 |
| krtaylor | asselin, there is a proposed infra session for the downstream puppet work, correct? | 15:08 |
| asselin | krtaylor, yes | 15:08 |
| asselin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-liberty-summit-planning | 15:09 |
| krtaylor | asselin, ok, so we can have that discussion there then, and move documentation to a work items that will follow that work | 15:09 |
| asselin | yes | 15:09 |
| krtaylor | So I think #4 is important, but may be able to handle in a QA open session | 15:10 |
| krtaylor | so, scanning the list, it looks like the highest priority items to me anyway, are #1 and #3 | 15:11 |
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| krtaylor | although #3 is already happening, so that may just be a spot to get operators to contribute | 15:12 |
| asselin | #9 is important to us. If not in 3rd party, we can see about including that in cinder. | 15:13 |
| asselin | 10 is covered in -infra session | 15:13 |
| patrickeast | asrangne: +1 for #9 | 15:13 |
| patrickeast | asselin: * | 15:13 |
| krtaylor | asselin, I agree, but it does have a smaller audience | 15:13 |
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| asselin | is that a cinder issues, or do other projects have a similar need? | 15:14 |
| asselin | for #9 | 15:14 |
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| patrickeast | i assume other vendors have variable configurations they want to test out, right? | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | Is it a common problem in cinder? | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | testing multiple configs per patch? | 15:15 |
| patrickeast | most backends have multiple switches they can fiddle with for the storage device | 15:16 |
| asselin | the alternative is to setup specific jobs for each configuration. | 15:16 |
| patrickeast | different authentication, encryption, fabrics, etc | 15:16 |
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| asselin | yes, there are different backend configurations & openstack configurations. | 15:16 |
| asselin | e.g. is multipath installed & enabled in nova.conf? | 15:17 |
| * ctlaugh_ got in a little late | 15:17 | |
| krtaylor | I could see neutron potentially having similar | 15:18 |
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| asselin | it increases the job permutations...and for some it seems they should be able to test within a single job... | 15:19 |
| krtaylor | is there requirements for the testing to include the permutations? | 15:20 |
| asselin | from cinder no. for customers, yes | 15:20 |
| krtaylor | yep, ok, so a "its the right thing to do" test | 15:21 |
| krtaylor | we have a few of those requirements as well | 15:21 |
| krtaylor | ok, so let's leave that on the short list for summit | 15:21 |
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| asselin | I think a brainstroming session would be good | 15:22 |
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| krtaylor | agreed, we need to get broad input for how to improve trust in CI systems | 15:22 |
| krtaylor | for #7 nfedotov, want to comment | 15:23 |
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| krtaylor | for #7 these would be tests also outside the required ? | 15:23 |
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| nfedotov | Yes. There are tests that could not be merged to tempest | 15:24 |
| asselin | my opinion is yes it should be allowed. | 15:25 |
| asselin | and should be encouraged, in fact | 15:25 |
| krtaylor | nfedotov, what is being asked, how to handle? requirements to do so? | 15:25 |
| nfedotov | I think so too. It may be a non voiting job. Somebody who are interested in results may look at it. | 15:25 |
| zz_ja | nfedotov, acceptance probably depends on articulating the voting status clearly. | 15:26 |
| zz_ja | It's hard to imagine objections to non-voting "informational" results | 15:26 |
| krtaylor | this may be related to #5, where there are tests that *should* be run, but are not required, seems like that is a recurring subject here | 15:27 |
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| nfedotov | Yes it is related to #5. | 15:27 |
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| zz_ja | krtaylor, "should" vs "must" ... any binary modifier is probably going to annoy someone. tagging seems to be the panacea nowadays. | 15:28 |
| krtaylor | we (powerkvm) are beginning to test outside required projects, we have been planning to post thost log results to our third party system wiki page | 15:28 |
| zz_ja | ...I think of should vs must in terms of degree of completeness. gate is min-required, other levels could be articulated. | 15:28 |
| krtaylor | so the issue is that some tests need to be run, but the projects don't necessarily want to see the results of these posted to each patch, too much noise | 15:29 |
| krtaylor | so, maybe a community place to store "extra" tests? | 15:29 |
| krtaylor | indexed by patch number? | 15:29 |
| krtaylor | ok, that would be a good brainstorming subject, and also cross-project | 15:30 |
| ctlaugh_ | #5 (at least what I was hoping to convey) is that there are test scenarios (like we are running with ARM) where we can't possibly trigger off of (and comment on) every project and every commit. I'm looking for a place to report test results that are not tied to a specific patch. | 15:30 |
| asselin | krtaylor, I prefer to keep it posted with the patch itself | 15:30 |
| asselin | krtaylor, perhaps a gerrit UI update can help filter the noise | 15:30 |
| krtaylor | asselin, agreed, but the projects don't agree | 15:30 |
| krtaylor | hm, so a better CI comments toggle | 15:31 |
| asselin | krtaylor, for example | 15:31 |
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| krtaylor | ok, so do we agree that these can be grouped into a discussion topic? | 15:32 |
| asselin | +1 | 15:32 |
| patrickeast | +1 | 15:32 |
| zz_ja | +1 | 15:33 |
| krtaylor | ok, so we have #1 and #5/7/9 | 15:33 |
| marcusvrn | +1 | 15:34 |
| ctlaugh_ | +1 | 15:34 |
| krtaylor | #4 may be QA, #2 follows #10 to infra | 15:34 |
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| krtaylor | that leaves #8 | 15:34 |
| krtaylor | #8 is a great work topic for liberty | 15:35 |
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| asselin | perhaps that one should also be proposed in -infra | 15:35 |
| patrickeast | yea they would probably have good input for it | 15:36 |
| krtaylor | #8 lends itself to good best practices discussions for caching/optimizing too | 15:36 |
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| patrickeast | ^ that might be something lacking in our documentation | 15:36 |
| zz_ja | +1 infra | 15:36 |
| krtaylor | that can stay on the active work list for liberty, but do we need to discuss at summit? | 15:36 |
| asselin | krtaylor, if not formally, we can discuss informally | 15:37 |
| zz_ja | if we think it lands on infra, might be useful to take the temp of the room on it | 15:37 |
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| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartyCIWorkingGroup#Development_Priorities | 15:37 |
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| zz_ja | ...if there's a groundswell of support, harder for others to say it's not important to infra | 15:37 |
| krtaylor | just in case some don't know we track CI working group interests :) | 15:38 |
| krtaylor | zz_ja, we haven't had much "groundswell" on anything :) | 15:38 |
| zz_ja | might be how the question is asked. | 15:39 |
| zz_ja | if we talk about how to profile *a CI test*, yawn. | 15:39 |
| asselin | I'm thinking more like how it's done in disk image builder | 15:39 |
| zz_ja | if we talk about how to profile any scenario, well every consumer of the main repo should have that problem. | 15:40 |
| asselin | it has built in profiling. | 15:40 |
| krtaylor | ok, I'll summarize the topics at the top of that etherpad after this meeting and email for comments | 15:40 |
| asselin | zz_ja, this would be profiling all the parts of the ci job itself | 15:40 |
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| krtaylor | any other comments about summit discussion priorities? | 15:41 |
| zz_ja | depends what "all the parts" means asselin | 15:41 |
| asselin | so the jobs have timestamps. Would be nice to have a tool that can consume that and give your profile of the entire ci job. | 15:42 |
| zz_ja | ... profiling often can only see "so far" down into the stack. depends on implementation what that means though. | 15:42 |
| zz_ja | sure | 15:42 |
| asselin | covering all the bash scripts, devstack, tempest, cleanup, uploading, etc. | 15:42 |
| zz_ja | as well as its individual components; it's a classic drill down pattern | 15:42 |
| krtaylor | I think you are both in agreement that is should be discussed :) | 15:43 |
| zz_ja | krtaylor, you and emily will have to proxy of course, no travel for me | 15:43 |
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| krtaylor | we need to move along in the agenda (time check) | 15:44 |
| * asselin steps away for a minute | 15:44 | |
| krtaylor | we can handle clarification of topic discussion points via email and etherpad once I get the summit list | 15:44 |
| krtaylor | ok, onward then | 15:44 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Repo for third party tools | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Repo for third party tools (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:45 | |
| krtaylor | so, the patch to create the repo got merged, hopefully thats not news to anyone | 15:46 |
| krtaylor | here is our shiny new repo | 15:46 |
| krtaylor | #link https://github.com/stackforge/third-party-ci-tools | 15:46 |
| krtaylor | and I have pushed an initial patch to get basics out there | 15:47 |
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| krtaylor | but we need approvers/cores to get patches merged | 15:47 |
| krtaylor | I have proposed asselin, patrickeast, mmedvede, sweston as cores | 15:47 |
| krtaylor | I have not heard back from sweston yet, but can remove him later if he does not want to take it on | 15:48 |
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| krtaylor | oh and me | 15:48 |
| krtaylor | I have not heard anything from the email sent | 15:49 |
| krtaylor | so I am assuming that there is overwhelming support for those proposed | 15:49 |
| krtaylor | comments? | 15:49 |
| patrickeast | sounds good to me | 15:49 |
| asselin | from a diversity point of view, do we have anyone from neutron? | 15:50 |
| patrickeast | i assume we can always adjust as we go as needed | 15:50 |
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| zz_ja | +1 | 15:50 |
| krtaylor | lets vote, I love using the meeting tools | 15:50 |
| krtaylor | #startvote initial cores as proposed be added to third-party-ci-repo | 15:51 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 15:51 |
| krtaylor | hm, interesting | 15:51 |
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| marcusvrn | how can I use this tool to vote? | 15:51 |
| asselin | #help ? | 15:52 |
| krtaylor | hm, it should have given us instructions to use yes or no | 15:52 |
| zz_ja | stop reading the pictures in krtaylor's mind ;-) | 15:52 |
| krtaylor | #startvote | 15:52 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 15:52 |
| krtaylor | ok, whatever a simple +1 -1 will do | 15:52 |
| zz_ja | krtaylor, try your original without the hyphens | 15:52 |
| mmedvede | #startvote agree on initial cores for new repo? | 15:52 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 15:52 |
| mmedvede | haha sorry | 15:52 |
| zz_ja | +1 | 15:53 |
| mmedvede | +1 | 15:53 |
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| krtaylor | #startvote agree on initial cores for new repo | 15:53 |
| asselin | +1 | 15:53 |
| patrickeast | +1 | 15:53 |
| krtaylor | #startvote agree on initial cores for new repo | 15:53 |
| zz_ja | +1 | 15:53 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 15:53 |
| marcusvrn | #vote yes | 15:53 |
| marcusvrn | :P | 15:53 |
| marcusvrn | +1 | 15:53 |
| ctlaugh_ | +! | 15:53 |
| krtaylor | lol, its broke real good | 15:53 |
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| krtaylor | anyway | 15:53 |
| krtaylor | +1 from me | 15:53 |
| krtaylor | any against? | 15:54 |
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| krtaylor | last call for votes | 15:55 |
| krtaylor | #agreed asselin, patrickeast, mmedvede, sweston, krtaylor as initial cores for third party ci tools repo | 15:55 |
| krtaylor | ok, 5 mins | 15:55 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Monitoring dashboard status | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Monitoring dashboard status (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:56 | |
| krtaylor | I am assuming sweston didn't join us | 15:56 |
| krtaylor | ok, then I will contact Timothy Chavez, he is not addressing the resolution of the comment on the patch | 15:56 |
| krtaylor | I believe that is all that is holding that up | 15:57 |
| marcusvrn | just a question: patrickeast and asselin are from cinder, correct? what about you, krtaylor and the other 2 folks? | 15:57 |
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| patrickeast | yep i’m from cinder | 15:58 |
| krtaylor | marcusvrn, ctlaugh_ and I are cross project, but mainly focused on nova | 15:58 |
| krtaylor | sorry if I answered for you ctlaugh_ | 15:58 |
| krtaylor | asselin, is it ok if we defer the downstream puppet status, since you gave an update at the office hours meeting on Monday? | 15:59 |
| asselin | krtaylor, yes | 15:59 |
| egon | question for #3 in the etherpad: In terms of getting operators involved, is the suggestion that operators use their own infra, common infra, or just common tools? | 15:59 |
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| krtaylor | ok, good, 'cause we are out of time :) | 15:59 |
| marcusvrn | patrickeast: krtaylor nice! thanks | 15:59 |
| egon | I'll comment in the etherpad... | 15:59 |
| krtaylor | egon, yes please | 15:59 |
| krtaylor | thanks everyone, really good meeting as usual | 15:59 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate is experiencing epic failures due to issues with mirrors, work is underway to mitigate and return to normal levels of sanity" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 29 16:00:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-29-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-29-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-29-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| nkrinner | hm | 20:05 |
| nkrinner | no log working group meeting today i guess | 20:05 |
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| Rockyg | sorry I'm late. anyone here? | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | for log_wg? | 20:09 |
| nkrinner | Rockyg: hi | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | my browser crashed and I neded it to log in through the proxy | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | Hey! | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 20:09 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 29 20:09:53 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:09 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:09 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 20:09 |
| nkrinner | Rockyg: but i think it is only the two of us | 20:10 |
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| Rockyg | Ok. Well, it would be great if I could bounce some ideas off of you. | 20:10 |
| Rockyg | I forget what project you're associated with? | 20:11 |
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| bknudson | I'm around. | 20:11 |
| nkrinner | i also gathered some information on the docimpact/logimpact topic we discussed last meeting | 20:11 |
| bknudson | you should send out a ping message when the meeting is started | 20:11 |
| bknudson | to whomever wants to be notified | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | Ah. | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | jokke_: | 20:11 |
| nkrinner | i'm not really associated with any project, but recently i comitted to sahara. but i am more interested in contributing to the oslo project | 20:12 |
| Rockyg | Excellent. nkrinner You are just the person we need ;-) | 20:12 |
| nkrinner | :-) | 20:12 |
| Rockyg | I can't remember Nikolas/ handle, but I don't think he's on. Same with Eugeniya | 20:13 |
| Rockyg | topic: what logging *really* needs | 20:13 |
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| Rockyg | #topic what logging *really* needs | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "what logging *really* needs (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:14 | |
| Rockyg | I've been working *a lot* on the spec, but it's been in responding to comments and changing the spec based on the responses. I'm about 2/3 of the way there | 20:14 |
| Rockyg | So, I haven't resubmitted it yet. | 20:15 |
| bknudson | which spec? | 20:15 |
| Rockyg | Two things the spec brings out: 1) we need someone to implement the oslo.log changes 2) we need projects to use new oslo.log error code stuff for new work, plus a while you're in there retrofit | 20:16 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: lemme find it | 20:16 |
| bknudson | there is a summit session proposed for oslo.log | 20:16 |
| bknudson | see at the bottom here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-oslo-summit-planning | 20:17 |
| bknudson | the working title is "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of oslo.log changes" | 20:17 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:17 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: got a line number? | 20:18 |
| bknudson | #line 268 | 20:18 |
| Rockyg | #llink https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172552/5/specs/log_message_error-codes.rst,unified | 20:19 |
| Rockyg | is the spec with comments. | 20:19 |
| Rockyg | cool. 40minutes on oslo.log | 20:20 |
| bknudson | lots of comments means people are interested | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | that's Thursday? | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | hey, dhellmann | 20:20 |
| bknudson | this is the proposed schedule -- 5/20 is wed. | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | hi, Rockyg | 20:21 |
| Rockyg | I found a git repository with rfc5425 full compliance log message formatter in python | 20:21 |
| Rockyg | OK. Wednesday. | 20:21 |
| bknudson | what's the license | 20:21 |
| Rockyg | morgan fainberg's apache | 20:22 |
| bknudson | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5425 ? | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | sorry 5424 | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | as a working session, that room is going to be pretty small and the discussion is expected to be very very focused | 20:22 |
| bknudson | come to the session expecting to work. | 20:23 |
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| Rockyg | #link https://github.com/dpocock/python-rfc5424-logging-formatter | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: that's GPL | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | I've been doing a bunch of digging and reading, etc. to respond to the error code comments. dhellmann: dang! | 20:23 |
| bknudson | did morganfainberg write it? | 20:24 |
| bknudson | we could probably twist his arm to dual license | 20:24 |
| bknudson | although he'd have to talk to his old employer too. | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | somehow, his name is on the license, but it's a fork of another repository, which, who knows, might be a fork of his. | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: looks like metacloud is involved, so we'd have to get them (or EMC, I think) to change it | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | anyway, this is putting the cart before the horse because it's not certain it would be suitable for the changes needed | 20:25 |
| bknudson | I thought oslo already had syslog formatter | 20:25 |
| Rockyg | I'm thinking we can get the author to license under apache since it appears he just copied. Might need to trace proveninance, though | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: we do | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: let's focus on getting that spec approved before we worry about implementation | 20:25 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: but it's not 100%. It's missing parts of the header | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | we might not even need this | 20:25 |
| Rockyg | agreed. | 20:25 |
| bknudson | oops | 20:26 |
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| Rockyg | So, anyway, what I realized is that I would like the xproject time to define what gets written to which logs and when you write to any log. | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | we have oslo logs, console logs, apache logs | 20:27 |
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| Rockyg | The api might need to write one thing to the oslo log, and pass log context to the project it is responding to. | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | If we come up with a system flow and guideline for logs and logging, it will be much clearer where we need to fill gaps, change, or maybe even drop. | 20:28 |
| bknudson | There's another log guideline that was already merged -- | 20:28 |
| bknudson | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132552/ | 20:28 |
| jokke_ | hi ... sorry got caught in middle of something | 20:28 |
| bknudson | so this is a guildeline for logs and logging. | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | Yup. That is the basic "developers do this for logging so we have a chance of debugging this stuff" one | 20:29 |
| bknudson | well, for logging... it didn't mention whether to use syslog or apache or whatever. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | yes, I think it makes sense to address these issues separately. Specs need to be small enough to understand and actually act on, either to implement them or to use the policies to help make a decision about something. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: developers do not make that decision. *all* logging goes through the same API, and it can be configured by the deployer to end up wherever they want | 20:30 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: right. so we need to get the logging "framework" documented/defined for OpenStack as an ecosystem. | 20:30 |
| bknudson | y, developers need to know to not make an assumption | 20:30 |
| bknudson | just because devstack gate does it that way | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: let's start by defining the desired outcome, and work backwards to an API of some sort. | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | great | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | I think a lot of what you want is actually already possible, and some of what you want is going to meet quite a bit of resistance (error codes) | 20:32 |
| Rockyg | Yes. | 20:32 |
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| Rockyg | I think error codes would go easier if we have an outline of how logging should work | 20:32 |
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| Rockyg | I kinda started from the middle, went down and am circling back to the top. | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it seems like there are several different issues, and we don't have to address them all in one spec | 20:33 |
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| Rockyg | Yes. And if we get the principles down, the notification log stuff will be easier and smoother, too. | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | I had started a google spreadsheet that I wanted to put the logs in and define certain characteristics | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTncfK_droY8E-Uy2icVuU-z9ya38ZBK_ZIRvGfPOXc/edit#gid=0 | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | we're not going to completely replace everything that is happening with logging, so we should be thinking in terms of small, incremental changes | 20:35 |
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| Rockyg | I thought if we could start with all the logs we have and categorize them, we would get patterns and classes | 20:36 |
| Rockyg | I expect that console logs are not something we would want to address | 20:36 |
| Rockyg | Except as a general "if it goes to the console, make the message meaningful" kind of thing. | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | console logs? | 20:37 |
| jokke_ | no, lets not touch anything in vm space unless they run nested openstack :) | 20:37 |
| Rockyg | screen_ | 20:37 |
| jokke_ | ah .... stdout and errout? | 20:37 |
| Rockyg | jokke_: exactly. Let's stay in the control plane, and out of the "data" plane | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | so that's an example of what I was saying before -- the existing log configuration code is set up to use the console for devstack, the exact same code configures logging files as well | 20:38 |
| Rockyg | So nova servers, compute nodes, neutron servers, keystone... | 20:38 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: Oooh. | 20:38 |
| bknudson | it's regular python logging | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | all of this configuration stuff is built into the library already | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | right, it's sitting on top of python's logging module | 20:40 |
| Rockyg | hmmm. how do you determine which logfile to write to? I can understand by "project" but .... | 20:40 |
| bknudson | the default config writes to stdout | 20:40 |
| bknudson | if you want to override the default config to write to separate log files you can do that | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | there are configuration options to control all of that stuff, and if the simple configuration options aren't enough a deployer can use python's configuration file format to do almost anything you can imagine | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: are you by anychance going to have a log library tutorial? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | no, we don't have a session like that planned | 20:41 |
| bknudson | here's a tutorial: https://docs.python.org/2/howto/logging.html#logging-basic-tutorial | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | OK. I know about the config file format stuff. The operators use that to separate debug from everything else | 20:41 |
| bknudson | from the python docs | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: will that get me enough info to get deeper into oslo? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | the python.org docs? | 20:42 |
| Rockyg | Yeah | 20:42 |
| bknudson | Rockyg: you will want to understand that | 20:43 |
| bknudson | Here's info on the config file: https://docs.python.org/2/howto/logging.html#configuring-logging | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | understanding what the underlying code is capable of will help understand what oslo.log is doing | 20:43 |
| bknudson | the oslo stuff is a small layer on top of python logging | 20:43 |
| bknudson | for consistency, since it's easy to do everything differently | 20:43 |
| Rockyg | I think I started it, but ah, that's what I need. I'll review them both. I'm also going to watch sdague's debug youtube talk again | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | right, oslo.log mostly maps oslo.config options to behaviors in the standard logging library | 20:44 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Theoslo.log docs are good for figuring out what to put in your log message and how to build it from the dev perspective. | 20:44 |
| Rockyg | so, putting the pieces together will give me the flow. Which I have been trying to get and have not had much success. | 20:45 |
| bknudson | I didn't know about the yaml config file... we should switch the sample. | 20:46 |
| bknudson | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/etc/logging.conf.sample | 20:46 |
| Rockyg | I grabbed the file from openstack-infra/sys-config/modules | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I think something has to read the yaml and convert it to dictionaries, so we would have to add code for that somewhere | 20:47 |
| Rockyg | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/modules/openstack_project/files/logstash | 20:47 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: oh, it's not built-in, just easy to convert to the dict. | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I *think* so? there's no yaml parser in the stdlib | 20:47 |
| bknudson | Rockyg: logstash is a great example of why we need consistent format | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | Yup. | 20:48 |
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| bknudson | people will get very angry at us if we make it difficult to debug gate issues. | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | There is also a .erb file that infra uses to reconfigure the various message formats. | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | So they can actually use logstash | 20:49 |
| bknudson | not just openstack infra uses logstash, I'm sure there's deployments out there enjoying it too | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | I've been collecting up all this data and trying to understand it to make it information. I'm close. | 20:50 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: yeah. the operators grab that file, too. | 20:50 |
| Rockyg | the .erb file | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: it would be useful to see your notes, are they in an etherpad somewhere? | 20:50 |
| Rockyg | I've got them in a few etherpads. let me consolidate them. I started, but then tried to get the spec out. | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | ok, maybe just between now and the summit | 20:51 |
| Rockyg | then the spec took longer because I kept searching for all the other stuff. | 20:51 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: definitely. | 20:51 |
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| Rockyg | dhellmann: I'm about half way through addressing the comments in the spec. I can work on that this week or the consolidation. I can have one or the other out by early to mid next week | 20:52 |
| Rockyg | Which would be better | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | the spec, I think | 20:52 |
| bknudson | get a new rev of the spec out so you can get more comments | 20:52 |
| Rockyg | OK. I'll make that happen then focus on getting the data down. | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:53 |
| Rockyg | But, I want that info so others can look at that, too, before the summit. | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | Maybe all the different config and other files, tools and a flow and where they get used. | 20:54 |
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| Rockyg | I think if we have a reasonable understanding/flow/description of how/what things get logged now, it would be a good starting point in summit discussions of figuring out where we want to really go. | 20:55 |
| bknudson | I'd find it interesting to know how it all works with elasticsearch, logstash, kibana. | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | I thought the focus right now was the format of the messages? | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: I think the format is a middle layer, but a really important one we can work on now | 20:57 |
| bknudson | and whether some things have become irrelevant (syslog) | 20:57 |
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| Rockyg | Which is also why the spec is important. another round of comments from the dev community and then get the ops guys on it. | 20:58 |
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| bknudson | hearing from ops how they want/need it done would be really great | 20:58 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: I think the ops are driving the syslog stuff. It's a more stringent standard, so easier for them to parse | 20:58 |
| bknudson | syslog doesn't seem that stringent to me. | 20:59 |
| bknudson | I've dealt with worse | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | bknudson: I've got a bunch of stuff from the Paris summit in etherpads that the ops folks provided, comment on. | 20:59 |
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| Rockyg | bknudson: read the rfc and see what python.log is not enforcing. One thing the operators want is "-" where a message field is left blank | 21:00 |
| Rockyg | python.log lets you just skip that field | 21:00 |
| bknudson | ah, that's where the formatter comes in. | 21:00 |
| Rockyg | Yup. | 21:00 |
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| Rockyg | It really isn't that stringent, but is more tightly constricted for format | 21:01 |
| jokke_ | bknudson: it would also allow using the syslog header etc. fields more effectively providing the info out of those regardless the backend of the logging | 21:01 |
| bknudson | defaulting to stringent syslog or having a syslog config option makes sense to me. | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | Oops. We're out of time. do we want to continue on? there's nobody after us. | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | it's the EOD for me here, but you can continue on without me | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | eod for dhellmann. Think of poor jokke_ ;-) | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | Thanks, dhellmann. I really needed your input today. | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | It will take me lots farther. | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | np, Rockyg :-) | 21:04 |
| Rockyg | so, I think this is winding down. Let's get nkrinner's input on his research than call it a meeting | 21:04 |
| nkrinner | ok | 21:05 |
| Rockyg | #topic tags in launchpad | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tags in launchpad (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 21:05 | |
| nkrinner | so last week we discussed if we want something similar like the 'docimpact' tag for commit messages | 21:05 |
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| nkrinner | what is basically happening there is when a commit message contains a 'docinmpact', a bug is automatically filed against a project, here openstack-manual | 21:06 |
| nkrinner | it is documented here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/DocImpact | 21:07 |
| bknudson | there's also a SecurityImpact tag, which I think just sends email rather than filing a bug | 21:07 |
| nkrinner | implementation happens mostly here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/jeepyb/tree/jeepyb/cmd/notify_impact.py#n161 | 21:07 |
| nkrinner | bknudson: that too, but i did not really look into that yet | 21:08 |
| nkrinner | so, i think it would be something easy to implement. the hardest thing would be to get a spec approved to do so. | 21:09 |
| jokke_ | if anything I think the securityImpact model with automated mail to list is more what we would want | 21:09 |
| bknudson | the bug is filed for docimpact because there's more work to do -- write the docs | 21:09 |
| bknudson | the email is sent because they're asking for the ossg to look at the change | 21:09 |
| nkrinner | i also wondered where to file the bug against if we go with the docimpact way | 21:09 |
| nkrinner | so people prefer the securityimpact model? | 21:10 |
| Rockyg | Yeah, we don't have a horizontal project for logs. At least not yet. | 21:10 |
| jokke_ | We do not have a project and we do not have actual work to do if someone is changing their logging | 21:11 |
| bknudson | what kind of changes do you want to see a LogImpact tag on? | 21:11 |
| Rockyg | Well, translation would | 21:11 |
| jokke_ | it's definitely more in lines "We're doing damatical changes about what we spit out, please have a look" | 21:11 |
| nkrinner | bugs where logging does not give meaningful information | 21:11 |
| nkrinner | a way to tell "we need more/better logs here" | 21:12 |
| bknudson | oh, it's for bugs, too, and not just commits? | 21:12 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: the translation gets their strings through the i18n tooling anyways | 21:12 |
| bknudson | The OSSG mailing list also gets email for security bugs. | 21:12 |
| nkrinner | i prefer that, i think the main focus should be on bugs | 21:12 |
| Rockyg | maybe operators would want mails on log bugs? | 21:13 |
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| Rockyg | at least on any marked critical | 21:13 |
| bknudson | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-security/2015-April/subject.html | 21:13 |
| bknudson | that's what the openstack-security list looks like | 21:14 |
| jokke_ | nkrinner: so did you find how to trigger those notifications out of bugs filed? Do we have tooling that FE looks for specific bug tags? | 21:14 |
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| nkrinner | jokke_: i did not look at that yet, i was looking at docimpact | 21:14 |
| Rockyg | anyone can add a tag to a bug within a project, but is there a way to get the tag to pre-exist on all projects? | 21:15 |
| nkrinner | when i proposed to investigate docimpact, i was not really aware what it does at that point | 21:15 |
| jokke_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags | 21:15 |
| nkrinner | bug tags: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Bug_Tags | 21:15 |
| jokke_ | ;) | 21:15 |
| Rockyg | nkrinner: from the other side, if you file a bug with docimpact, how does it get identified to the docs team? | 21:16 |
| nkrinner | Rockyg: it only works with commit messages i think | 21:16 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: in my understanding it does not ... the *Impact is commit message thing | 21:16 |
| Rockyg | Hmmm. | 21:16 |
| jokke_ | the security bugs are special cupcake and gets all kind of bells and whistles anyways | 21:16 |
| bknudson | I think the security tag causes an email | 21:16 |
| nkrinner | would you like to have something similar with a log tag? | 21:17 |
| nkrinner | sounds like a better idea to me | 21:17 |
| jokke_ | bknudson: I think it's not the tag but the classification of security bug in LP that triggers the e-mail (which is not sent to the public list) | 21:18 |
| Rockyg | It would be worth polling the operators about it. If they want an email, then we could get the tag across all projects | 21:18 |
| nkrinner | do operators really want notifications about issues with logging? i want it as a developer though | 21:19 |
| bknudson | if they're interested they can subscribe to the mailing list | 21:20 |
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| Rockyg | I wonder if there's a mailing list for the bugs with ops tag? | 21:20 |
| bknudson | I didn't know about the ops tag. | 21:21 |
| bknudson | are operators supposed to add that? | 21:21 |
| Rockyg | anyone who thinks fixing the bug would make ops' lives easier. | 21:22 |
| Rockyg | but I suspect, usually ops ;-) | 21:22 |
| Rockyg | This is good info. Now we just need to figure out what we should do with it. Certainly it raises at least one question to ask ops at the summit | 21:24 |
| Rockyg | Let's think more on this and what other info we want to get from ops at the summit. | 21:24 |
| Rockyg | and let's call it a meeting? | 21:24 |
| Rockyg | #endmeeting | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate is experiencing epic failures due to issues with mirrors, work is underway to mitigate and return to normal levels of sanity" | 21:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 29 21:25:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-29-20.09.html | 21:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-29-20.09.txt | 21:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-29-20.09.log.html | 21:25 |
| nkrinner | bye | 21:25 |
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| Rockyg | Thanks! | 21:25 |
| jokke_ | thanks | 21:25 |
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